Chickens coming home to roost?

[BladeFisher]

Go on I'll bite for you. It has the be the most utterly ridiculous thread I have seen. I know we can be a bit knee jerk as fans but this is just jerk.

You aren't being a realist and you are being doom and gloom. If you really are a realist you would comment its early days and while we aren't setting the world alight we aren't trailing the leaders of the table by any more than a few points. Everyone seems to be beating everyone else and its a piss poor league. We are a piss poor team these days because we don't have the players we used to. We wouldn't be here now if our leading scorer had been able to keep his knob in his trousers. Thats realism for you.

Also, if you were being a realist how would you explain chickens coming home to roost? Have we been sussed out? Having been beaten twice in the last few games should be cause for minor concern but their keeper gets man of the match and we should be slitting our wrists and talking about play offs rather than promotion? Are you really being serious?

Guess what, we are cash strapped and have average players picked up for buttons and paid about the same. Hence they aren't up to much. But they are probably enough to make sure we have a chance of promotion. Right now we have a good chance of being up there, no more no less. Thats a realistic view. Sure, we need some more players but our best striker by some way (Kitson) is yet to really get going. I would say while things aren't brilliant, they aren't shite either.

Finally you know how other managers judge their players. Apparently ours is different to everyone else. I would guess that all managers judge their players and performances on the points put in the bag. No more, no less. You can't be lucky/unlucky every week. Its just a guess but seeing as the league table is based on how you go on against everyone and not just the top teams I'm going to put my neck on the line.

No there is no biting. The point being made is that in comparison to some of the promotion rivals the GD is looking poor and once again performance against them away from home is poor too. To carry on ignoring these failings would be folly, but I'm not slitting wrists over it. Frankly its not worth it. At least with a degree of debate, a debate can be had rather than fuck off and support Wednesday. It is what brightens the footballing day when they lose, I loathe them with a passion and unlike some on here would never watch then unless we were playing them.

I am more fanatical than most realise, but if anything am fed up with mediocrity, which arguably makes me more critical. But as I said the early signs are there that things might be slipping. However Kitson's return should help. We shall see. If we weren't so shite in the play offs, there is always that fall back position, but even the rose tinteds can't surely put their money on that one.

 

[mpjacko]

how can you tell when united lose
Mpjacko posts on s2 4su

How do you tell when Mpjacko is talking sense and tells the truth?

Judge and co (blinkers brigade) need to comment on his posts

 

[Bladesway]

No there is no biting. The point being made is that in comparison to some of the promotion rivals the GD is looking poor and once again performance against them away from home is poor too. To carry on ignoring these failings would be folly, but I'm not slitting wrists over it. Frankly its not worth it. At least with a degree of debate, a debate can be had rather than fuck off and support Wednesday. It is what brightens the footballing day when they lose, I loathe them with a passion and unlike some on here would never watch then unless we were playing them.

I am more fanatical than most realise, but if anything am fed up with mediocrity, which arguably makes me more critical. But as I said the early signs are there that things might be slipping. However Kitson's return should help. We shall see. If we weren't so shite in the play offs, there is always that fall back position, but even the rose tinteds can't surely put their money on that one.

Now it gets more sensible. GD is always something I look at because it is a good show of what is going off apart from whether you are winning games. But points is more important lets be honest. It isn't about ignoring it (do you think that fans or management would be doing that?) Fact is, 2 or 3 good results at this stage catapults you into a good place. We have had 2 or 3 bad ones and are still in the mix. If anyone on here thinks we will walk it they are deluded. Just in the same way if anyone thinks we will be lucky to scrape into the play offs.

Interesting how some people go to the "we aren't allowed to talk about losing" stance as a default. Surely we all talk about it, win or lose but some people seem to take one defeat and spin it into how (insert some stat) we have been found out and will now drop down the league like a lead turd. It isn't great, because we are in League One with a load of shit teams. But we will in my opinion be there or there abouts come the end of the season. I don't even contemplate play offs because its just a route to disappointment again.

I'll repeat, if we are in this position come Christmas then that is ok with me. The important stuff starts happening after then. If we go up it will be skin of our teeth and if we don't it will be the same. Thats us, its what we do. Never a boring ride though.

 

[Ollessendro]

Come on Ollie - it should not be a surprise given our relatively huge resources to see us 3 points of the top. Agree it is a miracle looking at some of the games but let's not go anywhere near suggesting that we should be merely consolidating in this division. We should win it - simple as that.

When you consider the turnover and therefore wage bills of the teams around us then you may have a point:
- Tranmere: approx £3.5m turnover and therefore 2 million wage bill (max)
- MK Dons turnover: £5.6m, meaning max wage bill of £3m.

I cannot find owt on Donny, but Brentford's turnover in 2006/7 was £2m, meaning their wage bill would be around £1-£1.2m. They comprehensively beat a team that is being paid around 6 times as much as them. Our wage bill is estimated to be twice as high as MK Dons and 3 times as high as Tranmere. Now I know it is not clear cut (we are still carrying some dead wood from Championship days etc) but I think Mic has a point. We should be winning the league this year. At the very minimum we should get automatic. Wilson will have failed otherwise (like he did last year).

 

[SwissBlade]

If football league position related directly to turnover, then it would be a much simpler game. We are not the massive and this is not the way that football works in reality. To suggest that we should be winning the league based on our turnover is laughable.

This season we have had to completely overhaul our side. Last season, perhaps we masked some issues with players like Quinn, Willo and Ched all performing well and supplying and scoring a hatful of goals. Looking at the side on saturday and it was clear we were weak in certain areas.

The issue that we have is down to personnel. Perhaps if we'd been able to clear out the likes of Quinn, Ched, Simonson, Williamson and Monty last season we'd have been in a stronger position during the summer to strengthen in a more balanced way.

It is clear that we have some strong players for this division at our disposal - Harry, KMac, Kitson and Blackman are probably the undisputed ones. But despite being our better players, they failed to perform on Saturday (except Kitson). This is not a resource problem.

We have the highest turnover, but yet we have Flynn, Hill, McMahon and Westlake that don't look good enough at times and were all done by so called lesser players from a side that has a turnover far lower than ours.

They did their homework on us. They knew where we were weak and we didn't react to it.

 

[stannyblade]

Isnt the turnover done after the costs are taken out? The cost of running BDTBL must be loads higher than say Brentfords.

 

[Ollessendro]

If football league position related directly to turnover, then it would be a much simpler game. We are not the massive and this is not the way that football works in reality. To suggest that we should be winning the league based on our turnover is laughable.

This season we have had to completely overhaul our side. Last season, perhaps we masked some issues with players like Quinn, Willo and Ched all performing well and supplying and scoring a hatful of goals. Looking at the side on saturday and it was clear we were weak in certain areas.

The issue that we have is down to personnel. Perhaps if we'd been able to clear out the likes of Quinn, Ched, Simonson, Williamson and Monty last season we'd have been in a stronger position during the summer to strengthen in a more balanced way.

It is clear that we have some strong players for this division at our disposal - Harry, KMac, Kitson and Blackman are probably the undisputed ones. But despite being our better players, they failed to perform on Saturday (except Kitson). This is not a resource problem.

We have the highest turnover, but yet we have Flynn, Hill, McMahon and Westlake that don't look good enough at times and were all done by so called lesser players from a side that has a turnover far lower than ours.

They did their homework on us. They knew where we were weak and we didn't react to it.

Sorry? The amount of money your club makes is not related to performance?? I would not mind betting there is a pretty strong correlation with turnover and league position.

The point you have missed is that higher turnover means a higher wage bill. Our wage bill is probably twice as much as anyone else in the rest of the league (barring the relegated teams) and considerably more than all of our challengers (except maybe Donny). You would expect there to be a correlation between higher wages paid and better players, but this is not always the case (especially with SUFC).

To suggest that despite us paying at least twice as much as most of the teams in this league on wages of playing staff has nowt to do with how you perform on the pitch (or are expected to perform) is just lunacy. I am not saying that because we have a bigger turnover (that is that we are a bigger club) that mmost in the division we should automatically go up. However, I think that as we have by far the biggest wage bill then we should be expecting this team to win the league. If Tranmere finish ahead of us, with a squad that is earning a third of what ours is, then that is a big failure for SUFC (manager and players).

 

[LSF]

How do you tell when Mpjacko is talking sense and tells the truth?

Hell freezes over?

 

[norfolkblade]

Isnt the turnover done after the costs are taken out? The cost of running BDTBL must be loads higher than say Brentfords.

It shouldn't be, turnover in my eyes is income received before any costs are taken out, as that then straight away becomes profit (or loss) but the FL does work in some weird and wonderful ways!

 

[Ollessendro]

The FFP state that clubs wages should not exceed 65% of turnover, otherwise there'll be a transfer embargo. There's nowt about taking into account spend, size of ground or whatever. It is a straight forward calculation.

 

[super_pig]

we never really look like certs to beat anybody. like mk dons today you just knew theyd beat colchester. we can play anybody. hartlepool at home. and i wouldnt be confident we would win. we cant boss teams. we dont have the skill, we dont have the pace. weve dominated maybe 1 or 2 games all season. that concerns me a lot more than losing at mk dons and brentford.

as a long term outlook, i reckon you've hit the nail right on the head there mate

 

[Fiery Blade]

Surely, paying larger salaries attracts 'better players' check out Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, etc - that is the reason they always finish in the top four - we obviously pay more than anyone else (apart from Portsmouth) in this division so subsequently we are not getting value for money as Porter, Doyle, Collins, et al are grossly overpaid for their ability / talent quotient!

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Yesterday:-

When you consider the players we lost during the summer it is amazing that we are so close to the top.

Today:-

We should be winning the league this year. At the very minimum we should get automatic. Wilson will have failed otherwise (like he did last year).

Mood swings Olle?

 

[Ollessendro]

Mood swings Olle?

Thanks for pointing that out!?

If you follow the thread, I concede the point to Mic (about our resources). I then went away and looked at the turnover of other clubs around us and therefore their maximum salaries. That bit of analysis shifted my mood considerably (so yes is the answer!). Despite us losing some key players, we are still shelling out a hefty amount on players. I think that when we are paying so much more in wages than any other team we ought to be doing better.

 

[Fiery Blade]

But when we are shelling out wages to McMahon, Williams, MacAllister, Tonne, Philliskirk, Cresswell - none who are either good enough or deemed good enough to play 1st team football (even in a Pub League)

 

[SwissBlade]

Ollessendro

I think you know thats not exactly what I meant. I would guess that most of turnover comes from revenues such as sponsorship, merchandise and ticket sales. Why? Because we are able to attract a much higher level of support at the moment.

Wages paid does not guarantee that you will be more successful than other clubs. I did not miss the point, I am well aware that we can pay higher wages than other teams. You can expect a correlation between better players and wages, but I don’t think it always works that way.

I wouldn’t see Tranmere (or anyone else) finishing above us based on wages to be a failure, I’d expect anyone that finishes above us to be a failure.

What I would expect us to be doing with the FFP rules is building a squad, not just a first 11 of player all of a similar ability. What I see is that we have a first 11 who on their day can look strong. And they are probably paid very well for this division. I’d suggest that our first team wages makes up a massive part of our overall wages, a far higher percentage than what other teams are paying. I’d love to know our first team to reserve wage split.

Personally I feel that looking at our squad, we haven't spread the wealth very well

 

[Fiery Blade]

Ollessendro

I think you know thats not exactly what I meant. I would guess that most of turnover comes from revenues such as sponsorship, merchandise and ticket sales. Why? Because we are able to attract a much higher level of support at the moment.

Wages paid does not guarantee that you will be more successful than other clubs. I did not miss the point, I am well aware that we can pay higher wages than other teams. You can expect a correlation between better players and wages, but I don’t think it always works that way.

I wouldn’t see Tranmere (or anyone else) finishing above us based on wages to be a failure, I’d expect anyone that finishes above us to be a failure.

What I would expect us to be doing with the FFP rules is building a squad, not just a first 11 of player all of a similar ability. What I see is that we have a first 11 who on their day can look strong. And they are probably paid very well for this division. I’d suggest that our first team wages makes up a massive part of our overall wages, a far higher percentage than what other teams are paying. I’d love to know our first team to reserve wage split.

Personally I feel that looking at our squad, we haven't spread the wealth very well

From my point of view Swiss, we've spread it too thickly - our 1st team players are paid much higher than most in this division and much more than they are worth!

 

[SwissBlade]

From my point of view Swiss, we've spread it too thickly - our 1st team players are paid much higher than most in this division and much more than they are worth!

Yep thats exactly my point, who comes in for KMac when he gets a knock? Who comes in for Flynn (FFS)...

I think we spread it too heavy on the strikers, let alone the 1st team!

 

[Kenilworth]

Ollessendro
I wouldn’t see Tranmere (or anyone else) finishing above us based on wages to be a failure, I’d expect anyone that finishes above us to be a failure.

Eh ?

I agree with Mic (my goodness I think that's twice in one month! Parp, Parp!) and Olle here. We should be shoulders above the rest in this division based on squad wages.

The head to head games against your peers in any season are crucially important - no matter how many times people have disagreed with me about it. Not only is it a double whammy for the team that loses, or gets pegged back for a draw when being 2-0 up, but its the influence on morale and confidence (down for the team that suffers and up for the team that prevails) and the mentality of performances going forward. Real football is not the sterile, computer based prediction with some arbitrary random generator thrown in for good measure that is Football Manager. The human aspects of the game are what makes the difference between winners and losers. By that I mean that you cannot treat each game with the same attitude of, "it's only the three points on offer" that matters. Getting one over your rivals or challengers is critical in winning the race. It's a vital boost to confidence and as we all should know, this game is all about belief and confidence, even at this level because most players are actually technically adequate, otherwise they would not be professionals making a living out of the game.

Others have pointed out that the porky prats from S6 didn't have any player in the third division team of the season for 2011/12 yet they were promoted and we, who had a couple, didn't. That's because they got more out of their collective than we did - 3 points more. I remember Pinchy stating that they wouldn't go the rest of the season unbeaten - but the truth is - they did. They ground out results against the odds when we ground out draws or a defeat at MK - that's mostly down to mental attitude - and the mental attitude of losing your top scorer at a crucial part of the season. We could have still won games or picked up more points had the morale been sufficient enough to increase the level of performance of one or two players by incremental percentages, despite the loss of Evans.

 

[stannyblade]

Kenilworth,
Trouble is the money on wages we are spending wasting is too high for the standard of player they are. Teams around us have some cracking players who will be on far less per week. Do they see us a big club so they can take piss when they sign wages wise? probably

 

[mattbianco1]

Oh dear. Is our true position now coming clear?

With MK winning and Donny big style, Bournemouth doing a Wednesday it is starting look a bit ominous.

I allways thought those silly home draws and lack of goals would come back to bite us in the bum and sounds like a real off day.

No.

No team is going to be able to gather and amass a points total like we will. Tranmere seem to have popped. Stevenage have took a 5 & two 4 beatings. Donny are on a roll, that will stop. MK the same.

The Blades will lose games, we all will. But we'll bounce back. Most teams will go three/four games without a win. I honestly can't see United doing that

 

[moDtheGod]

We have the highest turnover, but yet we have Flynn, Hill, McMahon and Westlake that don't look good enough at times ...

Every footballer has off days and therefore "looks bad at times". Flynn has been in our top three performers this season and you seem to delight in criticising him. He was poor on Saturday, I know, but I'll say it again, Flynn has been in our top three performers this season.

I reckon there's only Harry that's better on a regular basis. Blackman has won us plenty of points with his goals, but it's often the case that he does nothing of note before or after his match winning goal (see Leyton Orient as an example) and Long has been a pleasant surprise to me. I'm struggling now.

Flynn is the only source of creativity we have at the minute, as K-Mac is below the standard we expect. Flynn is also top of the League One assists table, according to various sources including the The Football League's own website.

You should really take off your anti-Flynn glasses when watching us play and see what he contributes, rather than waiting for him to get pushed off the ball and grumbling.

 

[Balham Blade]

There's an article on the Guardian website about MK Dons and amid the criticism about how that club came about there's a nugget about the "£3m a year they pay the players". Pete Winkelman is quoted saying MK Dons have 'players earning more than the Prime Minister and that's in League One'". Apparently, they lose around £1.7m a year.

If we assume that our turnover will remain fairly constant at around £10m this year, that gives us double the budget of MK Dons. There is no way that we should be going to Milton Keynes and playing for a 0-0 draw with the resources available to us.

I know that we're stuck with the wages of Doyle and Cresswell. However, we could have swallowed our pride and let them see out their inflated deals at the end of the year even if it involved a transfer embargo. Instead, we gave both a 3 year extension which is the kind of idiot decision that got us into this division in the first place.

I said on Saturday that we're outdated and should be capable of changing formation to reflect the modern game. moDtheGod told me that reality isn't the same as Football Manager. He's got a point: on Football Manager I've got rid of Cresswell and Doyle is very much a back-up.

 

[Barney Rubble]

When you consider the turnover and therefore wage bills of the teams around us then you may have a point:
- Tranmere: approx £3.5m turnover and therefore 2 million wage bill (max)
- MK Dons turnover: £5.6m, meaning max wage bill of £3m.

I cannot find owt on Donny, but Brentford's turnover in 2006/7 was £2m, meaning their wage bill would be around £1-£1.2m. They comprehensively beat a team that is being paid around 6 times as much as them. Our wage bill is estimated to be twice as high as MK Dons and 3 times as high as Tranmere. Now I know it is not clear cut (we are still carrying some dead wood from Championship days etc) but I think Mic has a point. We should be winning the league this year. At the very minimum we should get automatic. Wilson will have failed otherwise (like he did last year).[/

These are good points, although by this reckoning Man City not winning the premiership would be a greater failure given how their wage bill exceeds the rest of the division.

What United have in common with Man City (not often we can be linked with them these days) is that we don't have players who are twice as good as the rest of the division just because we pay them twice as much money.
Indeed I think the problem of the last few years has not really been that our wage bill has been too big (we should have been paying those wages if wanted to get back to the premiership) but that we have pissed it away on players who clearly haven't been worth it, as you say we are still carrying championship deadwood.

One factor that might have influenced this is our near refusal to pay a transfer fee for anyone in recent times. Morgs, Quinny and Monty presumably got big wages because their contracts had expired and we shat ourselves as to who we could in to replace them for nothing, whilst although we got Simmo, Cressie and Ertl for nowt they were all demanding high wages and had no resale value or any prospect of getting rid of them if they flopped.

Secondly, I reckon we suffer because everybody knows we've got the biggest wage bill in the division. Take Miller and Westlake, they ended last season no longer playing for their respective teams and probably desperate to move to any club in league one if they thought they had a chance of playing first team football. However I strongly suspect that they're earning more money here than they'd have got if they'd moved to MK Dons, Tranmere or Brentford.

 

[Ollessendro]

These are good points, although by this reckoning Man City not winning the premiership would be a greater failure given how their wage bill exceeds the rest of the division.

What United have in common with Man City (not often we can be linked with them these days) is that we don't have players who are twice as good as the rest of the division just because we pay them twice as much money.
Indeed I think the problem of the last few years has not really been that our wage bill has been too big (we should have been paying those wages if wanted to get back to the premiership) but that we have pissed it away on players who clearly haven't been worth it, as you say we are still carrying championship deadwood.

One factor that might have influenced this is our near refusal to pay a transfer fee for anyone in recent times. Morgs, Quinny and Monty presumably got big wages because their contracts had expired and we shat ourselves as to who we could in to replace them for nothing, whilst although we got Simmo, Cressie and Ertl for nowt they were all demanding high wages and had no resale value or any prospect of getting rid of them if they flopped.

Secondly, I reckon we suffer because everybody knows we've got the biggest wage bill in the division. Take Miller and Westlake, they ended last season no longer playing for their respective teams and probably desperate to move to any club in league one if they thought they had a chance of playing first team football. However I strongly suspect that they're earning more money here than they'd have got if they'd moved to MK Dons, Tranmere or Brentford.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but think you are wrong with the City analogy. Joe Hart, Yaya Toure, David Silva and Sergio Aguero would get in pretty much any other side in the Premiership. Those players are amongst the best in the league. You can probably add Vincent Kompany, Clichy, Maicon, Barry, Nasri, Tevez, Balotelli and Dzecko to that too. That is they would get in every other side, except perhaps Man U and Chelsea (and some would get in there sides). Based on not just the wages they have, but also the playing staff, they should be winning the league at a canter. No doubt they are paying way too much in wages, but I think the problem is collective spirit and management of so many ego's, rather than the players not being much better than other teams in the league.

 

[SwissBlade]

moDtheGod Apologies if it sounds like I am taking delight in Flynn’s poor performances. I have watched him a few times and commented on what I see. I feel he has been very lightweight, pompey he hardly stood up all game and I feel he needed to add to his game in terms of strength. More recently v Stevenage he got singled out and v Brentford he was poor, but in those games he put in a stronger performance. Sadly though I compare him to the better wide midfielders we’ve had in recent years. Willo, Quinn and Halford. As you can tell I prefer a mix of ability and strength over a pacey/ skillful winger.

Flynn is someone who I’d really like to see do well, I really would, but he too often fails to meet expectation. I think he has more ability than his performances show.

As I say I don’t get to see every game, I comment on what I see rather than a tinted view (as much as possible) I don’t have a scapegoat, but I grow to like some players and some I never manage to. I have a much more tinted view on Williams, Westlake, Hill and McMahon, mainly because I think they have all been poor and its not a tough position to be half decent in.

So with Flynn, I really don’t think he has been good enough from what I have seen. If that is conflicting the assist stats, then perhaps I am concentrating on the other parts of his game too much. Maybe I should look at the percentage of deliveries which result in goals…

Going onto Blackman. On Saturday, we were looking around the pitch for players to step up and grab hold of the game. Who managed to do that? Certainly not Collins, Harry, Doyle or KMac… which disappoints me more. It was Blackman that stepped up because he put the defenders on the back foot. Flynn didn’t manage this on the other wing….

So perhaps I seem to single him out a lot, I’ll certainly take this on board and perhaps try to be less derisory about Flynn, but I’ll also say what I see.

 

[moDtheGod]

I do think you pick on him unnecessarily. I specifically remember what you said about him during Portsmouth game, when he was shoved to the ground after trying (and pretty much succeeding) to beat three players all at once. You said he went down easily. I watched it several times and just can't see it - he was shoved into the turf by a bigger guy after he'd been skinned - definite foul. He'd just taken on and beaten three players and one of the biggest criticisms aimed at him is that he never takes players on...

I was briefly discussing with Greenwich Blade on Saturday how wingers always seem to get such a hard time. The position they play, it's hard to get into the game in the same way as a Doyle or a K-Mac - you're stuck out on the wing, it's tough to grab the game by the scruff of the neck from there. They do tend to have a great game and then a bad game, they're in and out.

They're also on a hiding to nothing in some respects. If they send in a beautiful delivery, it's a case of "well that's what he SHOULD be doing" and if it's wank and fails to beat the first man, it's 15,000 fans groaning. The other thing is, Flynn does a lot of defensive work and gives us stability. A lot of fans don't or won't appreciate that - they just want to see him running, trying to beat players and attack-attack-attack. It's particularly harsh to expect that if he's being instructed to keep solidity in mind.

I agree about Blackman stepping up on Saturday. A lot of our side had "off-days" against Brentford and it's a shame, but it was good to see someone having a go. I wonder if he feels he has a point to prove now he's been shoved out wide and was fighting for a place up top?

 

[SwissBlade]

moDtheGod
Ok, I will try to assess my view on him before posting. That said, I don’t agree with you. If I only applied this to Flynn then you could say that I pick on him, but I don’t see anyone else going down as easily as him… except Cofie. I think we’re too sensitive to the PL that players get contact then its automatically a foul if he goes down. I said at the time he should stay on his feet. He goes down to easily. You disagree. I’m not going to give Flynn special treatment for this.

I rarely criticise him for not taking players on. I think he often tries and fails/ falls/ lacks pace to get past them but he tries to have a go, this is what I like in him.

I have little sympathy for Wingers, I have even less sympathy for players like Quinn, Flynn and Cotteril when they are the (self?) nominated set piece taker and they can’t beat the first man. Blackman has proved that he is more capable of a decent delivery. Its good to have options.

This 'hiding to nothing point is an interesting one'. If they are stuck out on the wing then they are either under instruction to stay there (possibly to stretch the game, to keep the shape or similar) or they need to get involved by coming for the ball… perhaps dropping deep to collect the ball or finding the space. Either way they need to be wanting the ball and yes the other team mates need to be looking for the players in space.

One thing with Flynn is that he does want the ball, he’s not on the same level as Quinn or Halford, but he’s a cheaper version. I have a huge question mark over his desire when he gets the ball at times and I think he often prefers to take the easy way out by looking for a freekick. Blackman on Saturday showed his class at times, using power to drive through the defence. Sure he’s bigger than Flynn, but Flynn needs to work on this part of his game… and I have seen signs of it. In many ways the lower centre of gravity can be an advantage. Stevenage and Brentford he got some special treatment at times and he tried to deal with it or swapped wings... this is the improvement from v Pompey.

Delivery into the box is the big issue I have, I really don’t think there is an excuse for wasting a ball completely. I know not every ball will hit the striker, but 50% should hit the right areas, Flynn is often at fault with his deliveries.

As for Blackman, I think he realised that he can do a job out wide. I like him out there and think he'll get a lot more open play goals when he's facing goal running at players. He seems to be wasted with his back to goal. He'll also get a few assists

 

[LSF]

Interesting debate above. I like MTG's assessment of Flynn and his taking to task of Swiss's constant harsh criticism of the aforementioned. Nice to see Swiss willing to have another look and reassess.
I like Flynn and have done since we signed him. He's not a winger in the old fashioned sense (such players disappeared long ago), true, he rarely goes past opponents as he recognises he has no sustainable pace, but is quick over two or three yards and generally picks out the right ball to play when he gets possession. If people cannot see beyond the "no pace, lightweight, falls over" jibes, they do Flynn a disservice, as he is a clever perceptive player with a nose for defensive duties who will play a vital part in our season.

 

[Northyorksblade]

Interesting debate above. I like MTG's assessment of Flynn and his taking to task of Swiss's constant harsh criticism of the aforementioned. Nice to see Swiss willing to have another look and reassess.
I like Flynn and have done since we signed him. He's not a winger in the old fashioned sense (such players disappeared long ago), true, he rarely goes past opponents as he recognises he has no sustainable pace, but is quick over two or three yards and generally picks out the right ball to play when he gets possession. If people cannot see beyond the "no pace, lightweight, falls over" jibes, they do Flynn a disservice, as he is a clever perceptive player with a nose for defensive duties who will play a vital part in our season.

I too, like Flynn, but he seems to be a confidence player and his confidence is low at the moment. he doesn't need to be told his corners are rubbish, it was obvious they were. he should have worked through it, but he can hear the groans every time it doesn't get past the first defender and I suspect relieved himself of corner duty. I still think he can come good. Shame he's got the Bobby Ford tag at the moment.