Ched Evans: How many goals for ANOTHER chance here?

[Tom Bott]

What we are desperately lacking is a sense of proportion

Blinded by righteous fury, the mob believes that women are, by definition, victims – thus, anyone who dares to question a woman’s testimony is “victim-blaming”: if the facts don’t fit the thesis that all accused men must be rapists, they simply ignore them.

A balanced article written by a female journalist.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the...-the-ched-evans-verdict-puts-all-of-our-sons/

 

[Tom Bott]

That post is about as out of touch with the situation as it could possibly be. Do you think that rape laws should be scrapped because "women aren't sugar and spice and all things nice"?

Has anyone said or inferred such.

Maybe everyone who has sex with someone 'over the limit' should be jailed for rape ?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Has anyone said or inferred such.

Maybe everyone who has sex with someone 'over the limit' should be jailed for rape ?

Your post was saying that women aren't nice, that one woman had been manipulative and callous but hadn't done anything illegal, and ridiculing people for considering the moral angle in a rape case. Some people have already linked morals to the verdict, others are expressing their own standards, some to say they differ from the verdict, some to say they differ despite the verdict, others to say Evans did nothing wrong. You appear to have a problem with all of that, and considering the context, how do you square that with any consideration of whether someone did right or wrong?

As for your question, it is actually illegal to have sex with someone who is too drunk to consent. Didn't you know that?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Back to football and watching last night and the other games for Ched, he looks a yard faster, sharper, looks leaner too. If he carries on like this then we'd be mad not to recall him in January. His awareness and positional sense looked great too last night for his two goals and he got an assist too.

and the defenders are a yard slower in League 1

 

[Sheffsteel]

A balanced article written by a female journalist.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the...-the-ched-evans-verdict-puts-all-of-our-sons/

I think another factor is the GB culture where it seems almost trendy for the late teens/ early 20’s to get blind drunk.
Also there’s this sexualised culture where it almost trendy for men and women to have numerous one night stands. have a threesome, take part in group sex etc. Excessive alcohol muddies the waters and even now I don’t believe anything has been learnt from the Ched case.

There should be a national campaign about controlling alcohol and permissive behaviour but instead we see programmes like Brits abroad, Love island, ex on the beach with youngsters (boys and girls) bragging about having black outs and/ or having loads of one night stands.

I worked in a large office when the Ched trial started, it was surprising how many women supported Cheds action as relatively normal.
Where as many of the men assumed CE was obviously taking advantage of a defenseless girl. The women said that there are sexist men who automatically think all women are defenseless little flowers, a couple of the young girls in the office actually said it’s a common fantasy for women to be involved in a threesome. It opened me eyes regards how we all have different values and morales.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Back to football and watching last night and the other games for Ched, he looks a yard faster, sharper, looks leaner too. If he carries on like this then we'd be mad not to recall him in January. His awareness and positional sense looked great too last night for his two goals and he got an assist too.

out of interest, how do his Fleetwood team mates react to goals etc - does he seem fully accepted into the team?

UTB

 

[Grizzly blade]

One reason to get rid of Ched...no matter what happens on the field the conversation around him will always fall back to conversations about the rape case, sexual violence against women, male stereotypes, feminists, and people arguing about moral high grounds and their opinions in it.

I have had my fill of it, it’s all been said hundreds of times. It’s boring now.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

out of interest, how do his Fleetwood team mates react to goals etc - does he seem fully accepted into the team?

UTB

They're all in awe of him, it's the 1st time they've had a real superstar in these parts

 

[Tom Bott]

Your post was saying that women aren't nice

No I said some have low morals and standards, but as you wish to alter everything I say to suit your own viewpoint there is no point continuing.

This thread is about a footballer and his ability to play that game, lets keep it on track.

While ever Ched is scoring goals it is good for our club, GLTTL.

 

[Sean Thornton]

The morals of all three involved could be questioned rather than just one.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

No I said some have low morals and standards, but as you wish to alter everything I say to suit your own viewpoint there is no point continuing.

This thread is about a footballer and his ability to play that game, lets keep it on track.

You said people were out of touch to see women as nice : "I think many still see the fairer sex as sugar and spice and all things nice, which as you say shows how out of touch some people are." The "some" was the people who think that way, not the women you were labelling. You criticised people for expressing a moral opinion, which wasn't keeping it "on track".
Whenever the question about Ched comes up, should we keep him, is he good for the squad, etc., these things will crop up. His actions and the verdicts divide the fans. It's why I don't want him at the club - apart from the fact that I don't think he is anywhere near good enough.

 

[BladeInIreland]

One reason to get rid of Ched...no matter what happens on the field the conversation around him will always fall back to conversations about the rape case, sexual violence against women, male stereotypes, feminists, and people arguing about moral high grounds and their opinions in it.

I have had my fill of it, it’s all been said hundreds of times. It’s boring now.

I'd be sad if people gave in and let the lynch mob get there little win at the expense of our club, and ched himself.

If he was to leave let it be because we have a team that is alot better than his talents.

Not because we have fans who think there alot better than him.

 

[Ricky]

Look at his body shape and movement. It's far more comparable to when he was in L1 with us.

Promising signs. He just really needs to stay fit.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The morals of all three involved could be questioned rather than just one.

Agree, but aren’t morals evolving, some things aren’t so clear cut, who decides what’s moral?

Some example of immoral behaviour
Having loads of one night stands, free sex
Paying prostitutes for sex
Going to La Chambre and being involved in partner swapping
Having multiple partners behind their main partners back

However I’ve spoke to level headed intelligent people who have taken part in what I consider the immoral practices above.
And they’ve managed to explain how they’re behaviour is so beneficial to so many people. Just shows how different people can be.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

It’s the vile bastards in our support who see Ched’s successful appeal as a validation of their own women-hating that piss me off.

Plenty of them in evidence in that song (not heard it for a while myself, though mates tell me it’s still around). A few of them in evidence among posters on here. They make me sick to my stomach.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I'd be sad if people gave in and let the lynch mob get there little win at the expense of our club, and ched himself.

If he was to leave let it be because we have a team that is alot better than his talents.

Not because we have fans who think there alot better than him.

Well, I have never set up a pre-arranged situation where a friend could pull a pissed up bird and take her back for a shag with the intention of me joining in without telling her beforehand, sneak in while they're at it, while she's vulnerable slip my cock in without saying a word, get up and go without uttering a word, then sneak unseen out of the back door. And that's nothing to do with whether I was single or not.
I have never and would never. It shows his character. So yes, I think I'm better than him. And anyone who has either done the above or would happily do the above, which seems to be quite a few people on this forum. If that makes me part of a lynch mob, so be it.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

It’s the vile bastards in our support who see Ched’s successful appeal as a validation of their own women-hating that piss me off.

Plenty of them in evidence in that song (not heard it for a while myself, though mates tell me it’s still around). A few of them in evidence among posters on here. They make me sick to my stomach.

This is it, really. When the not guilty verdict was given, I actually thought "that's probably the best outcome. He's served his time, now he can get on with his life. What he did doesn't deserve any more punishment". But now, I see it's just being used to justify views that should have died long ago.

 

[I should coco]

It’s the vile bastards in our support who see Ched’s successful appeal as a validation of their own women-hating that piss me off

That's a bit of a leap isn't it?

Whenever I've heard it sung it is a mainly a few spotty teenagers and a few older types who really should know better. There is a very laddish element to it which isn't big or clever, but making that into 'women hating' is Freud with knobs on.

Ched wasn't the only one behaving badly that night but I understand people who find his actions immoral. What I can't understand is when these people don't accept that two years inisde, is more than enough redemption for that.

It seems to me that some good Christian folk agree that second chances for sinners are fine, as long as the sin didn't take place in a Rhyll Travel Lodge.

 

[I should coco]

I have never and would never. It shows his character. So yes, I think I'm better than him. And anyone who has either done the above or would happily do the above, which seems to be quite a few people on this forum. If that makes me part of a lynch mob, so be it.

You may well be 'better than him', but I would have thought that anyone who is 'better' might include a bit of forgiveness in their own moral code.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Agree, but aren’t morals evolving, some things aren’t so clear cut, who decides what’s moral?

Some example of immoral behaviour
Having loads of one night stands, free sex
Paying prostitutes for sex
Going to La Chambre and being involved in partner swapping
Having multiple partners behind their main partners back

However I’ve spoke to level headed intelligent people who have taken part in what I consider the immoral practices above.
And they’ve managed to explain how they’re behaviour is so beneficial to so many people. Just shows how different people can be.

Evolving no doubt. The reason for this discussion though is different moral outlooks. The only facts on here are the outcome of the cases and any comments from the Judges. The rest is opinion - on both sides - and nothing more, no matter what beliefs anyone has about right and wrong.

 

[BladeInIreland]

Well, I have never set up a pre-arranged situation where a friend could pull a pissed up bird and take her back for a shag with the intention of me joining in without telling her beforehand, sneak in while they're at it, while she's vulnerable slip my cock in without saying a word, get up and go without uttering a word, then sneak unseen out of the back door. And that's nothing to do with whether I was single or not.
I have never and would never. It shows his character. So yes, I think I'm better than him. And anyone who has either done the above or would happily do the above, which seems to be quite a few people on this forum. If that makes me part of a lynch mob, so be it.

vulnerable? This is what a poster was highlighting earlier on.
WOMEN LIKE SEX TOO
Women get drunk, men get drunk. Women perv on men. Men perv on women.
The girl is far from innocent in these aspects, shall we bring her to the town hall and stone her to death?

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

That's a bit of a leap isn't it?

Whenever I've heard it sung it is a mainly a few spotty teenagers and a few older types who really should know better. There is a very laddish element to it which isn't big or clever, but making that into 'women hating' is Freud with knobs on.

Ched wasn't the only one behaving badly that night but I understand people who find his actions immoral. What I can't understand is when these people don't accept that two years inisde, is more than enough redemption for that.

It seems to me that some good Christian folk agree that second chances for sinners are fine, as long as the sin didn't take place in a Rhyll Travel Lodge.

Well, if I could be arsed I could certainly dredge up posts from this forum that express their support for Ched in language that is viciously, disturbingly, violently misogynistic.

To do so would likely open me up to fresh abuse. And I actually can’t be arsed. Not in public, anyway.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

That's a bit of a leap isn't it?

Whenever I've heard it sung it is a mainly a few spotty teenagers and a few older types who really should know better. There is a very laddish element to it which isn't big or clever, but making that into 'women hating' is Freud with knobs on.

Ched wasn't the only one behaving badly that night but I understand people who find his actions immoral. What I can't understand is when these people don't accept that two years inisde, is more than enough redemption for that.

It seems to me that some good Christian folk agree that second chances for sinners are fine, as long as the sin didn't take place in a Rhyll Travel Lodge.

During the season he was sent down, there were more than 'a few spotty teenagers' singing the song, it was as if it was 'well done Ched mate', one of the lads type of attitude. When he did get sent down, it felt to me like a lot of people took a step back and actually thought about what he'd done and maybe looked at it differently.

I'm sure if the jury had reached a different conclusion 1st time around, he would have been treated differently to how people see him now, mainly because a lot of damage was done in that 2 years he was inside. He still did what he did though, regardless of the trials, I just think people's attitude changed when he got sent down.

Back to topic, he's still got a lot to prove on the pitch

 

[coolhandluke]

It’s the vile bastards in our support who see Ched’s successful appeal as a validation of their own women-hating that piss me off.

Plenty of them in evidence in that song (not heard it for a while myself, though mates tell me it’s still around). A few of them in evidence among posters on here. They make me sick to my stomach.

A little bit harsh there don't you think ?

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

A little bit harsh there don't you think ?

Nope.

 

[coolhandluke]

Nope.

Name them then and let them defend themselves .

 

[BladeInIreland]

Well, if I could be arsed I could certainly dredge up posts from this forum that express their support for Ched in language that is viciously, disturbingly, violently misogynistic.

To do so would likely open me up to fresh abuse. And I actually can’t be arsed. Not in public, anyway.

I'd be interested to see if what your claiming is true. Because you don't have to be a woman hater to defend a man.

 

[Sheffsteel]

vulnerable? This is what a poster was highlighting earlier on.
WOMEN LIKE SEX TOO
Women get drunk, men get drunk. Women perv on men. Men perv on women.
The girl is far from innocent in these aspects, shall we bring her to the town hall and stone her to death?

Agree that’s the issue that some men can’t bring themselves to believe, they think it’s a convenient excuse engineered by men.

I’ve honestly met some women that laugh at men’s old fashioned views that women are the fairer sex.
Speak to a cross section of women in an open minded atmosphere and there’s a surprisingly significant amount of young girls that are sexual predators, love the thought of numerous one night stands and some are even fair game for threesomes. Some men would call them slags ( I don’t) but if men have the same behaviour they are almost revered like a Don Juan character, double standards.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

vulnerable? This is what a poster was highlighting earlier on.
WOMEN LIKE SEX TOO
Women get drunk, men get drunk. Women perv on men. Men perv on women.
The girl is far from innocent in these aspects, shall we bring her to the town hall and stone her to death?

This, BladeInIreland, is a load of tripe. From your early couple of posts I thought you had a better understanding of the case. She was vulnerable when Ched approached her, drunk, naked, lying prone, in the act of sexual activities with someone, not in her own surroundings. That was no normal lead-in to having sex and only one person can truly be said to have been in control of the situation - the person who had set it all up with his mate and who was not drunk.
It has got nothing to do with whether she likes having sex. Or her sexual tastes. The message is "if you say yes to one man, you must be up for it". That's wrong. Just because she was promiscuous, liked rough sex, was up for a one night stand, or anything else, doesn't alter what Evans is permitted to do. Unfortunately, the jury was allowed to consider exactly that, which I think was wrong.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Agree that’s the issue that some men can’t bring themselves to believe, they think it’s a convenient excuse engineered by men.

I’ve honestly met some women that laugh at men’s old fashioned views that women are the fairer sex.
Speak to a cross section of women in an open minded atmosphere and there’s a surprisingly significant amount of young girls that are sexual predators, love the thought of numerous one night stands and some are fair game for threesomes. Some men would call them slags but if men have the same behaviour they are almost revered like a Don Juan character, double standards.

It's nowt to do with it. It's a complete diversion. Just because women like sex, doesn't mean they can't be raped. We'll be back to suggesting that if a woman has an orgasm during a rape she must have enjoyed it, so it isn't rape.