Carney Urged To Quit
- Thread starter Bladesman
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- #5
Or just that when he was given the chance against lower league opposition he looked disinterested, slow and unable to control a football.
One or the other...
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- #6
There was a lot of bad feeling over Carney demanding to go to the Olympics, but its safe to say he's been left out based on performances and effort rather than just down to a fall out.
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- #8
Who else has been "frozen out"?
bettsyblade86
Member
for sake of argument.....
Geary, Hendrie, Monty (until Tuesday) Stead, Alan Quinn, Arnstrong, Gillespie, Nathan Dyer, Cotteril (almost), Nicky law
Come from away
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Can't see any of these as better than those who are starting right now.
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- #11
You can only play 11 players on a pitch though and to suggest some of those players have been frozen out, even for arguments sake, is going a little too far.
Geary has recently had an operation/number of operations on his knees as he has a persistent problem with them.
Hendrie was doing ok but then got injured and found his place had been taken by those who were performing better.
Monty has also been injured recently and found it hard to get back into the side.
Stead couldn't be guaranteed first team football and was given the chance to leave.
Alan Quinn was sold a full month before Blackwell took over. Bit harsh to blame him for that one eh?
Armstrong again wasn't guaranteed first team football and was given the chance to leave.
Gillespie spat the dummy out and was rightly told that it wasn't on.
Nathan Dyer obviously hasn't shown enough to warrant a place.
Cotterill was told he wasn't performing and has to earn the right to be in the team.
Nicky Law got his only start in two seasons under Blackwell in April and was sent out to lower league clubs by three managers.
A fall out may be relevant in some cases, but to suggest that it is the only reason some of the above aren't playing is simply ridiculous
bettsyblade86
Member
I think they all have something to offer a competetive squad. The ones who I would have picked to start a few games given some players dip in form would have been Stead, Monty and possibly Cotts
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- #13
bettsyblade86
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You can only play 11 players on a pitch though and to suggest some of those players have been frozen out, even for arguments sake, is going a little too far....
A fall out may be relevant in some cases, but to suggest that it is the only reason some of the above aren't playing is simply ridiculous
To suggest i stated the ONLY reason they had been left out was due to a fall out is also ridiculous
I didnt say i agreed or disagreed with them not playing i merely suggested that these players could argue they havent been given as much of a chance as others (Billy Sharp being the prime example)
The point i made was merely to spark debate, however in my opinion I would have given SOME of the players listed MORE of a chance
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- #15
To suggest i stated the ONLY reason they had been left out was due to a fall out is also ridiculous
You said it was for arguments sake... I rebuffed the theoretical argument with a statement of ridicule.
Therefore, point out where I said that you stated that the ONLY reason they had been left out was because of a fall out
I think the point is this.
When we start performing to a level not exactly acceptable to some fans, these people start plucking names out of the air like we're leaving the bastard love-child of Pele and Klinsmann in the reserves for no reason.
They start going... "oh, David Carney... he's an international. He must be good. Blackwell must have fallen out with him."
Then, some other people turn round and say... "well, he was bobbins the last time he played. Why should he play?"
Instead of coming up with a good reason (umms, arrrs and erms don't count) they start looking for more trouble where there is none.
Players aren't supposed to like their managers. They are supposed to do things that make them unhappy... like work for a living. The canny ones realise this and get their heads down. The thick ones moan and get kicked from pillar to post.
bettsyblade86
Member
Think the confusion has come from me not equatiing "frozen out" with "falling out". For me certain players haven't played as well as we all hoped they would and others have not been given the chance to prove they are any better/worse. My opinion on squad management goes like this...(bit off topic by the way)
Players who are out of form should be given a chance to play their way back into it again as long as they arent so disastrously out of form that it effects the team and results hugely (for me Cotts is an example of not been given ENOUGH of a chance). Players that then fail to improve given a "fair" chance (yes i no "Fair" chance could spark hours of debate) should then be replaced by another player who the has the opportunity to stake his claim (Sharp being an example of a player being given too long IMO, probably because we have no adequate replacements).
This is where the "he must have fallen out with blackie" stuff comes from as different players are treated differently
Players who are out of form should be given a chance to play their way back into it again as long as they arent so disastrously out of form that it effects the team and results hugely (for me Cotts is an example of not been given ENOUGH of a chance). Players that then fail to improve given a "fair" chance (yes i no "Fair" chance could spark hours of debate) should then be replaced by another player who the has the opportunity to stake his claim (Sharp being an example of a player being given too long IMO, probably because we have no adequate replacements).
This is where the "he must have fallen out with blackie" stuff comes from as different players are treated differently
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- #17
But the thing is... what do you class as being given a chance? For some this would mean a run in the reserves, for others, a few cup games and yet more believe this means they should get into the team. But what about if they aren't performing in training? Should we disrupt a team to shoe-horn someone in there who isn't putting the effort in off the field?
Reserve and cup games as well as training sessions are there for a reason in my eyes and all should be taken in to consideration when picking a team to play a game.
But can you see where this might cause issues?
You pick X, Y and Z to come into the team and none of the trio have done anything to deserve this place apart from being crap. You put them into the starting line up and they play... crap. This would effect the rest of the players negatively as they think:
a) All I have to do to get in the team is be shit.
b) What kind of team is this?
c) I've worked bloody damned hard, done nothing wrong and not got a place. I'm off to a club that won't treat me like this.
The fans then start getting on the manager's back. "Why are you playing X, Y, Z?" forgetting of course than when they weren't playing, they encompassed all the talents of the Escape to Victory team in their prime.
"Play A, B and C instead."
A was dropped after scoring a hat trick three games in a row because the manager thought X should be given a chance. Player A thought "fuck it" and has drunk his way to the bottom of a wine cellar.
B was never the confident type and has got progressively worse after being dropped after a run of assured performances for the vastly inferior Y in the name of "giving him a chance". B now daren't touch the ball in case he does anything wrong and loses his place again. He is a shadow of the player he was before he was dropped.
C was always a bit of a playboy but was playing well before being dropped for Z. After learning he was losing his place, he tossed it off around mucky birds and has caught chlamydia. He is now known as the "big dirty C" and none of the other players will talk to him.
Consequences see
A manager's job isn't to keep his pampered players happy, it's the other way around. A manager's job is to win games.
SouthEssexBlade
...for wit and sage wisdom
Having been in management for quite a while now, I would summise that Mr Blackwell has the same problems with his staff as any other manager. Some are lazy, some plain incompetent, some confused, some quiet, some loud, some obnoxious, some arrogant, some shy, some quiet, some with loads of non-related work issues, some with loads of work issues, some without a care in the world, some doing the work because they want to, some doing the work just for the money, some will moan and complain about anything and everything, some have unbelievable levels of tolerance, some blame the management for everything, some blame their colleagues for everything, some cannot get enouigh praise, some shy away from any praise, some get on with people, some fall out with everyone.
There is the mythical idea that footballers are not like other people. They may be lacking certain social skills and live in an air of total dependence, but they react in the same varied way any other staff team does. I have no doubt there have been clashes, falling outs, tantrum arguments, complaints about the new management style and technique, accusations that the manager doesn't like me, that the manager favours others, that the manager has it in for me. There may be substance to some of this, much of it will be the whinging that is heard throughout all work places about the boss being useless/hating me. Difference is that the checkout operator at Asda can't do that whinging to James Shield.
There is the mythical idea that footballers are not like other people. They may be lacking certain social skills and live in an air of total dependence, but they react in the same varied way any other staff team does. I have no doubt there have been clashes, falling outs, tantrum arguments, complaints about the new management style and technique, accusations that the manager doesn't like me, that the manager favours others, that the manager has it in for me. There may be substance to some of this, much of it will be the whinging that is heard throughout all work places about the boss being useless/hating me. Difference is that the checkout operator at Asda can't do that whinging to James Shield.
beightonblade
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Carney should never have arrived at BDTBL.
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- #20
He paid for his transfer fee in the Bolton goal alone, so wasn't really a costly gamble.
beightonblade
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Look at my post about the dross in the squad...........he's one of em and there are to many.
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- #22
Indeed, it doesn't change the fact that it was a non-costly gamble though
Could have gone either way, he clearly has some talent, even if he hardly shows it/isn't suited to our league. If we've decided he isn't good enough, then get rid, possibly farm him off to our Aussie connections in Jan.
beightonblade
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Indeed, it doesn't change the fact that it was a non-costly gamble though
I agree with that but......
Sumats wrong with the football management side of things at BDTBL.........
he should have been shipped out long ago .
beightonblade
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That says all yer need to know about 'cheap as chips' Blackie!
What, that he wants players to force their way back into the team by playing well and putting in effort?
beightonblade
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What, that he wants players to force their way back into the team by playing well and putting in effort?
No this bit........... because the players ahead of him have been doing their jobs
Sensiblade
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We are 5th in the Table if you had not noticed, which is a sight better than this time last year.
beightonblade
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Thank you for pointing that out..................as if i didn't know
5th place yackie dar.......and thats down to luck because the hoffball is wank !
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