CONFIRMED Callum Semple to Ross County

[Deadbat]

If he can’t make it I hold little faith out for the academy now

We will regret this one unless we have a good buy back in place. He’s extremely talented and could’ve been great for us long term. Potential through the roof.

Not sure how so many know more than the coaching staff who have worked with him for years?

Maybe they just think he is not good enough to compete for a place in a top end Champ club. At this time.

We have moved on significantly the last few years and academy players will have to be exceptional to get a chance at 1st team level.

They will have watched every game at QotS and have brought him back to assess the last few weeks.

We have to trust Wilder and all the Academy staff they just feel he is a long way from 1st team ready for us. We could have loaned him out again but he is 21 this year. He has been playing in the lower Scottish Leagues and it is the same situation as Gilmour. They may have done ok but the reality is they are miles off top end Champ level players and will be for some time if ever. They are now pros and will need to go and play football. We are covered with clauses etc also.

We have other young players coming through and it is a conveyor belt. The likes of Hallam, Slater, Mallon, Norrington Davies, Eastwood etc will also probably move on this summer with a few more. These are all playing u23 or div 2/nat league. It is such a jump to top end Champ. They will look at Smith playing lg 1 and may wait on him as he is playing a higher level and has started well.

Recall many being in uproar at a similiar situation when we let Jo Cummings go a few years ago and he is now on loan at Guisley and not close to being even a bit part player at Charlton. Ditto when Whiteman left but he has been in and out at Donny.

It's the reality that we can only keep maybe 1 or 2 academy players (unless you have an exceptional crop). I don't think it's about having little faith in the academy too. All clubs are the same. Look at Liverpool and City - Trent Alexander plays but Foden the.standout kid at City barely plays and will probably also be moved on lower down. It is the same at a higher level.

Would love us to bring 3 or 4 kids through every few years but the reality is if you get one who makes it every few years you are doing well. We were spoilt with Walker, Maguire but they got in as they were good enough.

The Academy is a business and the production of players is not just about for your own 1st team but recognising some will make careers but at a different level and moving players on for cash contributes to the business and the next cycle of talent. It's not the way we would like it to be but it is not going to change here are at other clubs.

I don't blame Wilder, the club but more see it as the harsh realities of football. Even before academies it was like this. In most cases if you are good enough then you will come through.


Sure clubs make mistakes or players can develop later (who kicked up a fuss or even noticed when Mansfield signed CJ Hamilton) but for the odd ones who may go on and make a career at this level or higher (Semple might of course it the club have made s decision for NOW) there are hundreds over the last 10 years or so we have released (some highly touted) who have drifted into lower leagues or out of the league completely (Ironside, Kennedy, Whitehouse, Harriott, McFadzean from.the best youth side we had for years for instance).

 

[BladeTillIDie]

Holmes, Carruthers, Leonard, Evans, Woodburn, Wilson, Johnson.....

For every decent buy, there's been a poor one too.

Heneghan and Washington

 

[BushBlade]

We will 100% have a buy back clause.

Whether a buy back clause will do us any good is questionable. If Celtic come in for him and he wants to go there, we'll only get the sell on clause won't we.

It's frustrating that we can't get proper fees for players like this, hence the prominence of the clauses. No fucker in L1 and below or Scottish football after Celtic and Rangers has a penny to spend. All while top flight clubs splash £20m+ on dross.

If Celtic wanted him we’d have the option of buying him back and selling him to Celtic, if that was more profitable than getting a sell on fee. In fact, if Rodgers (or whoever is in charge at the time) thought he was potentially good enough to compete in Europe, we could do worse than buy him back and play him.

 

[Ricky]

If Celtic wanted him we’d have the option of buying him back and selling him to Celtic, if that was more profitable than getting a sell on fee. In fact, if Rodgers (or whoever is in charge at the time) thought he was potentially good enough to compete in Europe, we could do worse than buy him back and play him.

Do the players have no choice if a buy back clause is activated?

 

[BushBlade]

Do the players have no choice if a buy back clause is activated?

Not as far as I’m aware or it would be worthless. But if he preferred to play for Celtic rather than us, we’d just buy him and sell him onto Celtic without playing him.

For example, if we’ve sold him for £100k with a £500k buy back and 25% of profit sell on fee, and Celtic offered £1.1m, we could buy him back for £500k, sell him on to Celtic for £1.1m and we’ve made £600k, rather than the £250k we’d have made from the sell on.
We could even put a sell on in the Celtic contract in case Southampton bought him.

I think that’s what they do in Spain anyway.

 

[robbiez666]

Before we got injured, Wilder said he was 6 months off the first team. Whilst the injury will obviously have set him back, he's had a very positive loan spell. And now we're giving him away, like we gave Gilmour away. I really don't understand this.

I still think if Brooks had gone to Chesterfield there's a good chance he'd never really play for us.

 

[blademanc]

I havent read every post in this thread but there is another explanation for permanent moves for Gilmour and Semple.In the case of Gilmour there may be younger midfield players for arguments sake Harrison Neal and Frank Maguire that they want to make a pathway for through the u23s -.Plus maybe the club think Regan Slater is more likely to be a first teamer at championship level and above.

In Semples case maybe Gomis is seen as having more potential loner term and the club want to make sure he has opportunities to develop.

 

[Redhead]

I bet if you ask Gilmour and Semple they will be over the moon to be at a club that want them, playing first team football, earning a decent salary and starting to make their way in life.

It was clear that Under 23s football was not enough for them.

 

[Plymouthblade]

The dead and dread hand of the Prince. Doesn't want nor need the academy. Will be relying on Euro feeder clubs where players are controlled by others agency.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Before we got injured, Wilder said he was 6 months off the first team. Whilst the injury will obviously have set him back, he's had a very positive loan spell. And now we're giving him away, like we gave Gilmour away. I really don't understand this.

I still think if Brooks had gone to Chesterfield there's a good chance he'd never really play for us.

Therein lies part of the issue - if Wilder said that, what he meant was Callum was six months off playing for a team struggling in League One. It is very very difficult for young lads to break through into a top Championship side. I do think there was an element of luck with the Brooks situation. England had an Under 20 side going to the FIFA World Cup in Korea AND an Under 21 side going to the UEFA U21 EUROs in Poland. They were scrabbling around for players for the 40 minutes each way, invitational bunfight Toulon Tournament & Brooks fit that bill. He's a great player, and he shone on that "third choice makeshift" stage, but it did feel a little bit lucky that he got the chance.

 

[robbiez666]

I bet if you ask Gilmour and Semple they will be over the moon to be at a club that want them, playing first team football, earning a decent salary and starting to make their way in life.

It was clear that Under 23s football was not enough for them.

But surely that's why clubs use the loan system to gradually assess their players? Loan to a level, does ok, loan to the next level up. etc etc. Like Henderson has been L2,L1, Championship. Next season Prem loan.

We've basically brought players through, in their first taste of competitive football they've done well, and we've let them go for nothing. Zilch. Zero.

 

[Redhead]

other clubs of upper Championship and premier league have a bank of players 19/20/21 years old who they send on loan over a two year period to ready them for either their first team or to sell on with clauses that enable them to make money on those players.

We have done the same but after 6 months.

We are still of the opinion that if they are not ready at 20 years old then they will never be ready,.

Agree or disagree that’s how the club is run.

What is for sure is that we will have first dibs on Semple or Gilmour should they push on to bigger things.

 

[FMBlade1]

Barceloana (see what I did there) and Real Madrid do this all the time, like with Pique and Carajval so I don't see what the issue is.

We get a player off the wage bill and isn't our responsibility, he won't get ahead of the pack here so better go somewhere to play and progress.

Worst case he's the new Maldini and we get a good sell on clause, best case we snap him up on a buy-back and he's ours.

Win-win!

 

[Ihadadream]

Having watched Cal for many years and seen him develop on the one hand I’m disappointed to see him leave but on the other he has now become a professional footballer most likely play Scottish Prem next year at Ibrox, Parkhead and Pittodrie brilliant experience when the path at United is blocked by Bash,Jack and Egan not to mention Stears realistically he ain’t getting 1st team football for 2/3 years min, 23’s ain’t an option regardless of what anyone thinks it’s shit...and I have watched enough of to make that judgement...yes there is a place for it but if at 22/23 you are still playing 23’s unfortunately you’ve missed the boat. Both Cal and Harvey Gilmour done the right thing don’t wait for it to happen go and make it happen good luck to the pair of them they’ve proved already they want it and are prepared to work for it!! Takes guts when all they’ve ever known is Sheff Utd

 

[wizadry]

What irks me is the fact we’ve spent all that money on coaching and bringing him through our ranks only then to let him go somewhere for diddly squat when it’s quite clear there’s great potential there. I can see why some people say what’s the point in an academy when things like this happen.

Forget about ‘clauses’, they get you no where and that’s part of the reason why we’ve only had 1 season in the top league for a quarter of a century, that’s embarrassing for a club of our size but you can’t keep players in a contract.

We had a ready made replacement in our ranks who would cost us relatively next to fuck all and someone who knows our system, the problem Wilder has when bringing someone in is that he sometimes struggles to get some players to adapt or they struggle to adapt, well Semple knew the system hands down.

GLTTL.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

What irks me is the fact we’ve spent all that money on coaching and bringing him through our ranks only then to let him go somewhere for diddly squat when it’s quite clear there’s great potential there. I can see why some people say what’s the point in an academy when things like this happen.

Forget about ‘clauses’, they get you no where and that’s part of the reason why we’ve only had 1 season in the top league for a quarter of a century, that’s embarrassing for a club of our size but you can’t keep players in a contract.

We had a ready made replacement in our ranks who would cost us relatively next to fuck all and someone who knows our system, the problem Wilder has when bringing someone in is that he sometimes struggles to get some players to adapt or they struggle to adapt, well Semple knew the system hands down.

GLTTL.

wizadry
I have some sympathy with what you say. But, partly, I've made peace with the system. It's not an easy thing to argue, but Academies are a mad, mutually beneficial thing. Sure, Callum has been at our Academy for ages & it's not worked out.
But, ALL our current First Team players were at an Academy, and ALL have progressed to become Championship players, it's just they were at another club's Academy. Academies are collectively important, collectively they work, they teach kids to play football.

 

[finlaytheblade]

On one hand, I agree - I'd like to see more youngsters come through, and I don't particularly rate any of the players you mention.

On the other hand, I'd really like to get promoted. And as much I don't really rate those players, they seem to have proven themselves as capable deputies, and all at least have championship experience, should they be called upon.

Is Norrington-Davies good enough to replace Johnson? What about T. Smith and Washington, Semple and Cranie or Gilmour and Lundstram?

The truth is I don't know and neither does Wilder, and I don't think he wants to jeopardise our chances by trialing these players in the 1st team.

I'm surprised Semple has gone permanently, I would have thought 1 more loan might have been the obvious option - maybe there were no potential suitors offering better than Ross County, and he really wanted to play.

There are a lot of clauses in the deal like with Harvey Gilmore,We signed Kean Brian on a similar footing.If the player is very successful they can be bought back at a very substantial discount.Wilder wouldn't let a hot property go for nothing this is a way of using other clubs to develop young players.At a cost yes, we arnt Chelsea who keep young players dangling on a string well into there 20s

 

[S64 Blade]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure all of our big name academy (or youth) players made their debuts in the Championship; for those worrying they'd automatically be out of their depth.

Jagielka, Walker, Naughton, Lowton, Maguire, Brooks all made their league debuts in this league. None of them disappointed.

 

[awblade]

I am on the fence with this one. I think that something needs to be done to stop the bigger lclubs hoarding youth players and loaning them out in the hope that they may get big bucks for them.

I've never seen semple play but everything I have heard has been extremely positive, so he is one that I would have liked us to hold onto.

Also it could be possible that he has asked for this so he can get games and be settled up there

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Not sure how so many know more than the coaching staff who have worked with him for years?

Maybe they just think he is not good enough to compete for a place in a top end Champ club. At this time.

We have moved on significantly the last few years and academy players will have to be exceptional to get a chance at 1st team level.

They will have watched every game at QotS and have brought him back to assess the last few weeks.

We have to trust Wilder and all the Academy staff they just feel he is a long way from 1st team ready for us. We could have loaned him out again but he is 21 this year. He has been playing in the lower Scottish Leagues and it is the same situation as Gilmour. They may have done ok but the reality is they are miles off top end Champ level players and will be for some time if ever. They are now pros and will need to go and play football. We are covered with clauses etc also.

We have other young players coming through and it is a conveyor belt. The likes of Hallam, Slater, Mallon, Norrington Davies, Eastwood etc will also probably move on this summer with a few more. These are all playing u23 or div 2/nat league. It is such a jump to top end Champ. They will look at Smith playing lg 1 and may wait on him as he is playing a higher level and has started well.

Recall many being in uproar at a similiar situation when we let Jo Cummings go a few years ago and he is now on loan at Guisley and not close to being even a bit part player at Charlton. Ditto when Whiteman left but he has been in and out at Donny.

It's the reality that we can only keep maybe 1 or 2 academy players (unless you have an exceptional crop). I don't think it's about having little faith in the academy too. All clubs are the same. Look at Liverpool and City - Trent Alexander plays but Foden the.standout kid at City barely plays and will probably also be moved on lower down. It is the same at a higher level.

Would love us to bring 3 or 4 kids through every few years but the reality is if you get one who makes it every few years you are doing well. We were spoilt with Walker, Maguire but they got in as they were good enough.

The Academy is a business and the production of players is not just about for your own 1st team but recognising some will make careers but at a different level and moving players on for cash contributes to the business and the next cycle of talent. It's not the way we would like it to be but it is not going to change here are at other clubs.

I don't blame Wilder, the club but more see it as the harsh realities of football. Even before academies it was like this. In most cases if you are good enough then you will come through.


Sure clubs make mistakes or players can develop later (who kicked up a fuss or even noticed when Mansfield signed CJ Hamilton) but for the odd ones who may go on and make a career at this level or higher (Semple might of course it the club have made s decision for NOW) there are hundreds over the last 10 years or so we have released (some highly touted) who have drifted into lower leagues or out of the league completely (Ironside, Kennedy, Whitehouse, Harriott, McFadzean from.the best youth side we had for years for instance).

Every time a young player leaves there seems to be the same reaction. We had it recently with Gilmore and before that Jake Wright junior.
If the first team draw or lose, some people can't wait to post on here.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Our management appear to be pro-active in dealing with all aspects of players - whether it is new contracts or moving players out.

Star quality of young players stand out a mile - some take time to develop, but as with the agent who engineered the Brooks move to Bournemouth, we also shouldn't be seen to hinder the progress of some young players like Semple. Perhaps for us, we've missed out with him getting injured. Perhaps he would have been brought into the L1 squad - after all, CW said when he first came Semple was 6 months away from being in the squad.

We've got a decent sell on apparently - he should go with our best wishes and at the end of the day he's still "one of our own".

UTB

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure all of our big name academy (or youth) players made their debuts in the Championship; for those worrying they'd automatically be out of their depth.

Jagielka, Walker, Naughton, Lowton, Maguire, Brooks all made their league debuts in this league. None of them disappointed.

Jags played the last game of the season for a team that finished 16th. Maguire played 5 times in a team that got relegated.
The other 4 all had loan spells away first and Brooks played in the Cup in our L1 days.

 

[I should coco]

Not sure how so many know more than the coaching staff who have worked with him for years?

Experts!

Haven't you noticed after we lose, how so many knowledgeable fans slag CW for wrong tactic/subs etc?

We really are in the presence of genius on here and particularly after a defeat.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Experts!

Haven't you noticed after we lose, how so many knowledgeable fans slag CW for wrong tactic/subs etc?

We really are in the presence of genius on here and particularly after a defeat.

I don't know how you get on in life having to rely on all the "experts". Like the politicians who have expertly guided us towards Brexit and the council leaders who have expertly turned Sheffield into a backwater in the last 40 years. Or maybe the experts at S6 who have fucked up royally despite the money being splurged and the experts in the retail industry who are going bust right left and centre. Or is it that you only consider McCabe and Wilder to be the "real" experts out there and it is heresy to have an opinion which is contrary to theirs.

 

[I should coco]

I don't know how you get on in life having to rely on all the "experts".

I generally prefer my airline pilots to know which stick to pull and I like a doctor to have a bit of an idea about anything he's planning to remove.

Like the politicians who have expertly guided us towards Brexit and the council leaders who have expertly turned Sheffield into a backwater in the last 40 years. Or maybe the experts at S6 who have fucked up royally despite the money being splurged and the experts in the retail industry who are going bust right left and centre. Or is it that you only consider McCabe and Wilder to be the "real" experts out there and it is heresy to have an opinion which is contrary to theirs.

The politicians generally didn't vote for Brexit. It was the great unwashed 'experts' that did that. Similarly the council leaders are not 'experts' but self interested politicos voted in by the masses. That's democracy in action.

I'm sure you have far more idea than CW and KM though, as your posts always demonstrate.

Have a nice day!

 

[BigBed]

This can only mean that Bryan is rated higher than Sample as JOC's back up plan can't it?

 

[snootyfenooty]

I generally prefer my airline pilots to know which stick to pull and I like a doctor to have a bit of an idea about anything he's planning to remove.



The politicians generally didn't vote for Brexit. It was the great unwashed 'experts' that did that. Similarly the council leaders are not 'experts' but self interested politicos voted in by the masses. That's democracy in action.

I'm sure you have far more idea than CW and KM though, as your posts always demonstrate.

Have a nice day!

I hope my posts have demonstrated that I'm not a lap dog like some.

What you have to realise is that in 2-3 years time McCabe won't be here due to retirement or being put on his arse by the Prince and neither will Wilder either through being fired (lack of success) or being poached (due to success). But irrespective of this I will still be around and probably so will you. The fans are the only constants in the game and as such are entitled to their opinion whether you like it or not. Oh, and this forum will still be around to allow those fans to express their opinion despite your efforts to shout them down.

 

[S64 Blade]

Jags played the last game of the season for a team that finished 16th. Maguire played 5 times in a team that got relegated.
The other 4 all had loan spells away first and Brooks played in the Cup in our L1 days.

Maguire and (less so) Jagielka stood out from the beginning, despite the overall team's performance.

The others went out all on loan, correct, to lower/poorer league opposition (as Semple and others have done). Their debuts for United were all in the Championship.

 

[CrookesBlade]

Clubs hoover up loads of youngsters knowing only a fraction of them will make it. Semple put in 10 years trying to make it at this club with all the sacrifices that entails. If he's not in the managers immediate plans and wants to go out to get games (mens football not U23) do we really expect the club to hold out for a fee, especially if the buying club is somebody like Ross County?

Wilder repeatedly states that he is getting the maximum out of the squad given the resources available and the team is greater than the sum of its parts. In a battle for promotion are you going to use experienced pros as back up or spend time blooding youngsters, especially when there are 4/5 decent players ahead in the pecking order?

Look at Jagielka and Maguire as examples. Jagielka was average at best for about a year before he was moved into defence. Maguire was woeful in his first few games (did he get sent off on his debut?). We don't have the flexibility to try players out like this at the moment given the clubs finances.

Semple may in time make a good career in the game at a decent level but some players often have to experience lower/non-league football to improve as footballers rather than tread water in the U23s.

Additionally this theory that somehow Wilder has been hit and miss in the transfer market is beyond me. Of the current squad only 4 of them were here before he took over taken us from an 8th place finish in League One to challenging for automatic promotion to the Premier League in 3 seasons playing some of the most entertaining football we've seen at the lane on a shoe string budget. How is that anything other than a good record?

 

[finlaytheblade]

I am on the fence with this one. I think that something needs to be done to stop the bigger lclubs hoarding youth players and loaning them out in the hope that they may get big bucks for them.

I've never seen semple play but everything I have heard has been extremely positive, so he is one that I would have liked us to hold onto.

Also it could be possible that he has asked for this so he can get games and be settled up there

It's also about wages as. We at this point can't give decent .money to young players who arnt going to feature in 1st team squad.At least this gives us a foothold o .there possible future