CONFIRMED Callum Semple to Ross County

[Sean Thornton]

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[Akinbiyi]

For an extra moan, I thought all our youngsters going out on loan was a good sign.

Semple's loan went well and yet we still get rid of him for nothing. If that was always going to be the case, why loan them out at all?

Exactly.

What sort of incentive is it to youngsters 'I'll go out, do well on loan and get a cha... get a move either here or elsewhere at a similar level.'

A lot AREN'T good enough, more don't make it than do, but until you try them at the level you can't possibly know that. And from what I've seen of Johnson and Washington I can't see what they give us than RND & Smith wouldn't.

 

[PokerBlade]

A lot AREN'T good enough, more don't make it than do, but until you try them at the level you can't possibly know that. And from what I've seen of Johnson and Washington I can't see what they give us than RND & Smith wouldn't.

I've never played Championship football but I'm fairly sure you don't need to see me do it to figure that out. You could've watched me play 5-a-side and know I'd not make the step up.

The reality is that a lot of young players show a lot of promise but the vast majority of them don't make it in the professional game. Some of the players that get released will prove their former club wrong but, again, that's the exception not the rule.

It wasn't long ago that everyone was harping on about McFadzean and Ironside. They got further than most with first team appearances, but who ever mentions them now?

 

[I should coco]

That horse isn't dead...

...it's just resting. Beautiful plumage!

 

[Chali 2na]

The way I see it, for the amount they'd play would they do any worse?

Johnson and Norrington-Davies as left wing backs, I can't for the life of me see how he'd be any worse as Johnson is gash.
Same goes for Smith and Washington but at the same time I think I'd rather Smith played regular games at L1 level than be our 5th choice striker.

The truth is they could be worse, much much worse: Norrington-Davies, Gilmour and Smith's experience is at national league level - the gap between the 2 divisions is huge.

Cranie stepped in at Wigan and looked exactly how you'd expect: steady, un-spectacular backup - he did a job. Alternatively we play Semple; it could all go well or it could be a disaster, we don't know. Imagine if he made a mistake that cost us the game - people would be bemoaning the lack of squad depth.

Semple is a very very good player for his age and experience and one I've watched closely since before his leg break, I would've thought he warranted a chance with us in a cup game.

I just don't see the point in loaning them out just to sell them.

You generally can't really tell much by dropping players in for cup games - they need to be somewhere playing week in week out. I think keeping Semple round here just to play a handful of sporadic cup games would have been far worse for his development than going on loan.

I don't really see the point of loaning players out just to sell them either to be honest, but it's a relatively new practice so maybe we're missing something?
We allegedly have buy-back/sell om clauses in both the Gilmour and Whiteman deals, so I suspect Semple is the same - maybe there is a long term plan involved here.

 

[dc_blade]

There will be some turnover in the squad this summer, whether or not we go up.

Lafferty and Jake Wright have clearly been deemed not good enough at this level.

Stearman and Cranie are both likely to leave this summer in search of regular first team football. You wouldn't be amazed if Kean Bryan left this summer, too.

No one is saying Semple needs to be shoehorned into the first team immediately, or that every academy prospect who shows even a glimmer must be kept hanging around on the off-chance of making a breakthrough. But it does seem a little strange to usher him out the door at this point in the season when things might look different in six months.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Of course it's an unforgiving world, particularly where younger players are concerned.

However, in this young lads case he was a standout member of our Academy prior to his bad injury. Since return he's had as good a loan spell as he'd ever have imagined in his first professional foray. So I fail to see why we wouldn't have loaned him to Ross County for 6 months...or other potential suitors.

Unless of course, the kid himself has turned around and asked to leave.

I suspect the answer lies within your last sentence. Given the time he's been at United, the potential for promises to have been made (not saying they were, just that it can happen), and having an agent nag away at him, not that surprising he's chosen to leave.

 

[mancunianblade]

Not sure what the big deal is. as said above we will have a buy back should he turn into a world beater. Turfing him out to a different club every 6 months is hardly going to help him properly develop.

We threw Long in at the deep end and looked what happened to him. on the other hand keeping hold of him and not playing him is even worse look at Eastwood, the lad is 4 months older than Henderson.

 

[PokerBlade]

I suspect the answer lies within your last sentence. Given the time he's been at United, the potential for promises to have been made (not saying they were, just that it can happen), and having an agent nag away at him, not that surprising he's chosen to leave.

I suspect that if he were likely to be Championship standard soon that no agent is good enough to convince us to let him go to Ross County.

 

[itsinyerblood]

I suspect that if he were likely to be Championship standard soon that no agent is good enough to convince us to let him go to Ross County.

You may be right.....I think there are several grey areas though, but maybe his current destination guaranteed a first team place which might go some way to confirming his decision. Time will tell of course, but as has been said elsewhere, there aren't many who leave at this age who manage to secure a place at this or a higher placed club later in their career. It's a gamble all round, a bit like Man City allowing Brooks to leave.

 

[snootyfenooty]

We made a profit on Leonard and Evans so I can't see how they were poor buys. Woodburn and Wilson were loans.

They were poor buys because they were crap and contributed nothing to the team.

 

[Harrisblade]

I'm not saying his overall signings have been bad, we've made some excellent ones. But as Ball_Sup (Phil) always argues, the paths to the first team for these players is impossible, even if they are good enough, we seem to rather spend money bringing in players that in all honesty, don't offer that much more, if at all.

Maybe if we were still in Div 1 and coasting along with winning and losing not affecting much, you may have a point.
When every point seems vital (and dropping one causes hysteria) it's really not an option.
A manager will always prefer the same ability but experienced under pressure in front of a big crowd

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Genuinely surprised by this one!!

 

[BLADES1988]

Is it too early to ask WEEEEERZMUNNEHGONE?

 

[PokerBlade]

You may be right.....I think there are several grey areas though, but maybe his current destination guaranteed a first team place which might go some way to confirming his decision. Time will tell of course, but as has been said elsewhere, there aren't many who leave at this age who manage to secure a place at this or a higher placed club later in their career. It's a gamble all round, a bit like Man City allowing Brooks to leave.

Well, Brooks is a good example, because if he carries on he might be good enough but even now he's not at Man City's level imo. The problem is though you only ever see the players that teams got wrong. Nobody's talking about Ironside and how so many had him down as the next big player for us. I suppose you can say that City missed out on £12m for Brooks, but in that time they've let go an awful lot of players that have gone on to do nothing.

 

[BushBlade]

Exactly.

What sort of incentive is it to youngsters 'I'll go out, do well on loan and get a cha... get a move either here or elsewhere at a similar level.'

A lot AREN'T good enough, more don't make it than do, but until you try them at the level you can't possibly know that. And from what I've seen of Johnson and Washington I can't see what they give us than RND & Smith wouldn't.

He’s just been given a full time pro contract at a club that presumably intends to play him regularly. If I were him I’d be delighted. If I was one of the many academy players that isn’t going to get kept on or get a full time contract with another club, I’d be very envious.

It’s a huge incentive. The lad has worked for ten years to be a pro footballer and now, injuries and luck permitting, it looks like that’s going to be what he is for the next fifteen years.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Well, Brooks is a good example, because if he carries on he might be good enough but even now he's not at Man City's level imo. The problem is though you only ever see the players that teams got wrong. Nobody's talking about Ironside and how so many had him down as the next big player for us. I suppose you can say that City missed out on £12m for Brooks, but in that time they've let go an awful lot of players that have gone on to do nothing.

Young Ironside did nothing to suggest he was good enough. No decent loan spells and looked totally out of his depth playing for the first team.

At least the latest sales have had successful loan spells.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

He’s just been given a full time pro contract at a club that presumably intends to play him regularly. If I were him I’d be delighted. If I was one of the many academy players that isn’t going to get kept on or get a full time contract with another club, I’d be very envious.

It’s a huge incentive. The lad has worked for ten years to be a pro footballer and now, injuries and luck permitting, it looks like that’s going to be what he is for the next fifteen years.

Fingers cross for the lad he is.

I've been to watch Stenhousemuir a few times in the league below....and take it from me, it's Professional in nothing but name. A standard akin to North East counties.

 

[BushBlade]

Fingers cross for the lad he is.

I've been to watch Stenhousemuir a few times in the league below....and take it from me, it's Professional in nothing but name. A standard akin to North East counties.

I don’t think L1 is professional in Scotland. Obviously the Championship is of a higher standard. I’d be shocked if Stenhousemuir are a full time team.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I don’t think L1 is professional in Scotland. Obviously the Championship is of a higher standard. I’d be shocked if Stenhousemuir are a full time team.

Couldn't be certain to tell ya the truth.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Well, Brooks is a good example, because if he carries on he might be good enough but even now he's not at Man City's level imo. The problem is though you only ever see the players that teams got wrong. Nobody's talking about Ironside and how so many had him down as the next big player for us. I suppose you can say that City missed out on £12m for Brooks, but in that time they've let go an awful lot of players that have gone on to do nothing.

All this does is demonstrate the 'casino' aspect of pro football. Of course there's a critical eye applied to young players and their development, but so much regarding their progress is down to the player himself. I recently read that B'mouth have offered Brooks double his current wage in light of interest from Tottenham. The figure quoted was £50K per week, presumably intended to ward off future attempts to lure brooks away. I doubt this would work though as Tottenham, City, or any of the other top teams, aren't exactly strapped for cash. Presumably, the extended contract is to secure an improved transfer fee should Brooks choose to leave.

 

[PokerBlade]

Young Ironside did nothing to suggest he was good enough. No decent loan spells and looked totally out of his depth playing for the first team.

At least the latest sales have had successful loan spells.

Easy to say this now, but back at the time plenty of people were saying on the forums or on RS that he should be given first team chances. And he did in fact make it onto the pitch for us, which I'd argue is more than Semple has achieved.

 

[PokerBlade]

All this does is demonstrate the 'casino' aspect of pro football. Of course there's a critical eye applied to young players and their development, but so much regarding their progress is down to the player himself. I recently read that B'mouth have offered Brooks double his current wage in light of interest from Tottenham. The figure quoted was £50K per week, presumably intended to ward off future attempts to lure brooks away. I doubt this would work though as Tottenham, City, or any of the other top teams, aren't exactly strapped for cash. Presumably, the extended contract is to secure an improved transfer fee should Brooks choose to leave.

Sure, the player himself is a big part, but there's a lot of factors. The world will never know what Diego (that other player that everyone told me was going to be the greatest thing ever) would look like had he not suffered a terrible injury. Maybe it was his attitude, but there's plenty of players with bad attitudes that still make it in the game. Maybe he just peaked as a teen and never would've made it anyway.

So yeah, there's a "casino" aspect, if that's what you want to call it. My point is that clubs get an awful lot more right than they do wrong. For every Brooks there'll be dozens of youngsters released by Man City that we never even hear about.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Easy to say this now, but back at the time plenty of people were saying on the forums or on RS that he should be given first team chances. And he did in fact make it onto the pitch for us, which I'd argue is more than Semple has achieved.

He did get a chance and a fair few, but still did nothing. By comparison, your Tyler Smith has more professional goals from his 6 month loan spell that old Ironside got in a few years.

Also to note, his chances came during one of our worst periods in history.

 

[Redhead]

He’s just been given a full time pro contract at a club that presumably intends to play him regularly. If I were him I’d be delighted. If I was one of the many academy players that isn’t going to get kept on or get a full time contract with another club, I’d be very envious.

It’s a huge incentive. The lad has worked for ten years to be a pro footballer and now, injuries and luck permitting, it looks like that’s going to be what he is for the next fifteen years.

A top post Sir.

It is all about the lad as soon as SUFC day it’s time to move on.

 

[JohnDenver]

One aspect that’s rarely mentioned is we need to be clearing the decks on an ongoing basis. Bring Semple back and another kid doesn’t get in the U23s. Who’s pushing behind Semple and how good might he be?

As for our first team, the bar keeps being raised. Any kid breaking in now will be exceptional.

Congrats to Semple on getting a contract with first team football potential. If he excels and buy him back for bargain fee, then great.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Sure, the player himself is a big part, but there's a lot of factors. The world will never know what Diego (that other player that everyone told me was going to be the greatest thing ever) would look like had he not suffered a terrible injury. Maybe it was his attitude, but there's plenty of players with bad attitudes that still make it in the game. Maybe he just peaked as a teen and never would've made it anyway.

So yeah, there's a "casino" aspect, if that's what you want to call it. My point is that clubs get an awful lot more right than they do wrong. For every Brooks there'll be dozens of youngsters released by Man City that we never even hear about.

Not disagreeing . Diego was a weird case, myself and other posters on here watched him and he definitely had something different that suggested there might be a player in there. Unfortunately, whether it was his injury or not, the step up to first team level appeared too much of an ask. Yes, there are lots of players whose demeanour, or off-field behaviour, might not be what we'd care to associate with the club, but this is such a circular discussion that it's best to leave it.

 

[Louis Hobbs]

http://onceablade.co.uk/first-team/...w-20-year-old-defender-to-leave-bramall-lane/

 

[itsinyerblood]

One aspect that’s rarely mentioned is we need to be clearing the decks on an ongoing basis. Bring Semple back and another kid doesn’t get in the U23s. Who’s pushing behind Semple and how good might he be?

As for our first team, the bar keeps being raised. Any kid breaking in now will be exceptional.

Congrats to Semple on getting a contract with first team football potential. If he excels and buy him back for bargain fee, then great.

Well said Pep

 

[PokerBlade]

Not disagreeing . Diego was a weird case, myself and other posters on here watched him and he definitely had something different that suggested there might be a player in there. Unfortunately, whether it was his injury or not, the step up to first team level appeared too much of an ask. Yes, there are lots of players whose demeanour, or off-field behaviour, might not be what we'd care to associate with the club, but this is such a circular discussion that it's best to leave it.

Fair enough.

He did get a chance and a fair few, but still did nothing. By comparison, your Tyler Smith has more professional goals from his 6 month loan spell that old Ironside got in a few years.

Also to note, his chances came during one of our worst periods in history.

Probably why Tyler is a loan and Semple is gone for good.