Bugger off mr chairman!!!!

[norfolkblade]

Have we actually received any of the Tevez money yet? If not, West Ham will appear as nothing but a debtor in the books, meaning there is none of that cash to spend as we have received none.

Some of the posts on this thread bloody well defy belief.

I absolutely agree that there are very few fans that are happy with the way things are going, BUT....

- Shall we spend fuck loads we haven't actually got, maybe have a season or 2 doing well, but ultimately end up like those fuckers at S6, facing a 3rd winding up petition very soon?
OR
- Shall we remain prudent, especially given the current financial climate (which I am fairly sure is going to get worse again before it gets better), and try to stay in the Championship with as much TV/Fan revenue as we can get (remember, a double dip recession will leave us all with less spare change in our pockets, thus meaning we may not be able to afford even going to BDTBL, let alone even buying a shirt), and once the fog of recession has cleared, give it a good go again?
Sure, this may be a few years, and I'm even more sure some of you on here will give me a good forum bashing, but we can not forget that Blades Realty is a property based investment, which because of the recession, is doing fucking dreadful, thus meaning we are getting no return on it.

GIVE IT TIME

 

[Jon Bon]

We currently have fans murmoring that Speed is a rubbish manager and a bad choice, that he's going to get us relegated... After how many games of his management career?

If that isn't impatience, I fear I've misunderstood it's definition.

Not so much impatience, more like nympholepsy I would say...

 

[lenners]

Norfolk, all the Tevez money is accounted for already. It's gone, there's nothing to come.
The size of the debt in that context defies belief.

 

[Revolution]

Norfolk, I can think of a few words to describe the strategy of selling all of your good players, creating a gradual slide away from contention and alienating a good chunk of the fanbase, whilst simultaneously saddling the club with property related debts just prior to the worst recession in living memory. Prudent is not one of them.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Norfolk, all the Tevez money is accounted for already. It's gone, there's nothing to come.
The size of the debt in that context defies belief.

This is from the 2009 accounts:-

The settlement with West Ham United brings a
satisfactory end to a dispute which arose from
the relegation of Sheffield United Football Club
from the Premier League in June 2007. West
Ham United agreed to pay the settlement in
increasing instalments over five years,
commencing in May 2009. This has been a long
and complicated process which has cost a
significant amount of money in terms of fees
and also management time. The work done by
our advisors, DentonWildeSapte, Blackstone
Chambers and LECG was outstanding, and our
internal team also worked very hard to bring
about this successful resolution.

Why do you say the money's all gone? We haven't seen most of it yet.

 

[Ted Danson]

Norfolk you seem to have far too much common sense and grasp on reality for this forum. Didn't you know that Mcabe is actually richer than those Arabs at City and its just him being tight and ripping the club off for his own gain. Sheffield Utd have a god given right to be winning the champions league and the premiership every season and if they don't do it every season we should all throw our toys out of the pram.

 

[lenners]

This is from the 2009 accounts:-

The settlement with West Ham United brings a
satisfactory end to a dispute which arose from
the relegation of Sheffield United Football Club
from the Premier League in June 2007. West
Ham United agreed to pay the settlement in
increasing instalments over five years,
commencing in May 2009. This has been a long
and complicated process which has cost a
significant amount of money in terms of fees
and also management time. The work done by
our advisors, DentonWildeSapte, Blackstone
Chambers and LECG was outstanding, and our
internal team also worked very hard to bring
about this successful resolution.

Why do you say the money's all gone? We haven't seen most of it yet.

Trig, if you want to go on believing it's not all accounted for and wasn't what we based our 'profit' on last season, knock yourself out.

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------

Norfolk you seem to have far too much common sense and grasp on reality for this forum. Didn't you know that Mcabe is actually richer than those Arabs at City and its just him being tight and ripping the club off for his own gain. Sheffield Utd have a god given right to be winning the champions league and the premiership every season and if they don't do it every season we should all throw our toys out of the pram.

Apart from the fact that Norfolk hasn't realised the Tevez money has gone and no-one has ever suggested in the history of time that we have a god given right to win the Champions League and Premiership every season, that's an entirely insightful post.

 

[Studge]

The profit may have been recognised in the accounts but the actual cash had not been received and is I believe shown in other debtors in the accounts.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Trig, if you want to go on believing it's not all accounted for and wasn't what we based our 'profit' on last season, knock yourself out.

len, do you understand the difference between P&L and balance sheet?

 

[Nick Jansky]

The profit may have been recognised in the accounts but the actual cash had not been received and is I believe shown in other debtors in the accounts.

That would be how it would be shown, but the cash, as & when it does come in, certainly won't be spent on the team, it will be earmarked to service debt. As we have already taken the profit in the accounts, the next set of accounts have the potential to look very scary indeed.

 

[Vancouver]

I've had an idea and I've ordered an initial batch of 500 bright green scarves with the words 'McCabe, F*** your property' on em - bit of a punt I must admit. Will be flogging em at £5 a time next home game, London Road. The protest starts here. 'Love United, hate McCabe.'

Clueless. Absolutely clueless. You thought about kids sitting nearby who like the look of these no-doubt cheap tacky scarves and have to have to swearing explained to them?

And as to your irrational hatred of McCabe please suggest a chairman who has done better for the club? Please tell me who is waiting in the wings to spend money on the Blades?

Some united fans make me sick; they're exactly the type of fan that we normally laugh at. We're getting as bad as the scousers.

 

[de g.]

Sorry to the board,im enjoying seeing our club going backwards at an alarming rate.MCCABES GOT MONEY,LOTS OF IT.WHY THE FUCK ISNT HE INVESTING IT IN THE TEAM,TELL YOU WHAT,FUCK IT,LETS ALL GO AND WATCH THE SYRIAN NATIONAL TEAM NEXT WEEK TO SEE ANOTHER ONE OF HIS TOTAL WASTE OF SPACE FUKIN INVESTMENTS.but were alright as we are arnt we.

I tell you what.

McCabe (and his family) were valued at around £175m in the 2009 Sunday Times Rich List. Before you criticise him, here's a question for you: would you be prepared to put the same proportion of your assets into the club (not annual salary, but total assets - any cash you have, shares, equity in your house etc) as you are asking him to? And in addition to that amount of money, would you also be prepared to put in the same proportion of your time, for free?

 

[Stafford Blade]

Clueless. Absolutely clueless. You thought about kids sitting nearby who like the look of these no-doubt cheap tacky scarves and have to have to swearing explained to them?

And as to your irrational hatred of McCabe please suggest a chairman who has done better for the club? Please tell me who is waiting in the wings to spend money on the Blades?

Some united fans make me sick; they're exactly the type of fan that we normally laugh at. We're getting as bad as the scousers.

spot on vancouver, some people will find things to complain about if were top of the premier league and holders of the champions league trophy. McCabe has done loads for the club and I have met him and he is a decent genuine bloke. It's his money and he can do what the hell he likes with it. Hopefully he won't read these pages and see what some of the clueless set think of him.

 

[lenners]

I tell you what.

McCabe (and his family) were valued at around £175m in the 2009 Sunday Times Rich List. Before you criticise him, here's a question for you: would you be prepared to put the same proportion of your assets into the club (not annual salary, but total assets - any cash you have, shares, equity in your house etc) as you are asking him to? And in addition to that amount of money, would you also be prepared to put in the same proportion of your time, for free?

How is McCabe putting time in for free?
He acquired the club expecting to make money on it, it's just a business like any other.
And tell us what proportion of his assets he has put into the club? And how is United as an asset actually divorced from the £175m he's worth, according to the S Times?

 

[alcoblade]

spot on vancouver, some people will find things to complain about if were top of the premier league and holders of the champions league trophy. McCabe has done loads for the club and I have met him and he is a decent genuine bloke. It's his money and he can do what the hell he likes with it. Hopefully he won't read these pages and see what some of the clueless set think of him.

So hypothetically speaking, if he walks away leaving us £150M in debt and owning lots of loss making ventures, are we all to be thankful because it was his money? Why is a £50M debt acceptable?

I'm not anti McCabe, I think he set out and still has honourable intentions. I'm not at all convinved he hasn't left us far more vulnerable that when he came. Am I "clueless" to ask questions? Why so?

UTB

 

[Studge]

Trig, if you want to go on believing it's not all accounted for and wasn't what we based our 'profit' on last season, knock yourself out.


Len, do you understand the difference between P&L and balance sheet?

Actually i would say its more the difference between P & L and cashflow.

---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 PM ----------

That would be how it would be shown, but the cash, as & when it does come in, certainly won't be spent on the team, it will be earmarked to service debt. As we have already taken the profit in the accounts, the next set of accounts have the potential to look very scary indeed.

Indeed in fact he loaned £6.227M against the first £7M of the WHFUC settlement on 29 June 2009 so thats a third of the money already spent. I am still not convinced that the results will be as bad as we think even though TV Revenues should have significantly reduced we presumably we will show a profit of at least £10M (2 Kyles) on disposal of players contracts plus Killas contract should have just about fully amortised so a bit more profit there. Depends on whether any further losses arise in China although our investment in Chengdu appears to be now have fully written off (454k last year) and the Hotel. I dont worry to much about Blades Reality as last years losses appear to relate to an impairment review of the properties and should not represent permanent diminutions in value and I assume since Ferbruary 2009 if occupancy levels have remained static then with the significant reduction in interest levels since that date profitability shouled be more likely.

 

[mekkyblade]

I never said we were alright or going forwards. He's already put more money in than any of us could hope to have, but he gets critisised for that too, as he's apparently trying to rob us blind.

Would we all sell any property we own and throw it at the Blades? only to be critisised when it doesn't immediately work?



We currently have fans murmoring that Speed is a rubbish manager and a bad choice, that he's going to get us relegated... After how many games of his management career?

If that isn't impatience, I fear I've misunderstood it's definition.



We'll see won't we, will we read them all this time though? or just the bits we can use to critisise certain people?

Look i have to agree with gav to an extent foxy. Not that i want mcabe out but he does need to wake up and smell the gallon of magnet! I also think speed will be a good manager whether it is at BDTBL remains to be seen he is by all intents and purposes stuck with a small and limited squad as far as raw talent and footballing ability is concerned and this is largely due to the last management regime, and he is really trying to put his own stamp on things with regard to our playing style but as the old saying goes 'you cant polish a turd!' we need new faces (and rid of a few old ones) the proof of the pudding will be in january when we see how much backing speed will get (not too much me thinks). As far as fans calling for speed out already, you are always gonna get dick heads like that no matter which club you follow! Lets get behind speedo and see what happens in the transfer window! Up The Blades!!!

 

[raul]

So hypothetically speaking, if he walks away leaving us £150M in debt and owning lots of loss making ventures, are we all to be thankful because it was his money? Why is a £50M debt acceptable?

I'm not anti McCabe, I think he set out and still has honourable intentions. I'm not at all convinved he hasn't left us far more vulnerable that when he came. Am I "clueless" to ask questions? Why so?

UTB

All these development projects - starting with the Business Centre and Academy, right up to Fradi and God knows what else : Has Scarborough Group PLC or God knows what profitted from them as a seperate entity?

 

[lenners]

Trig, if you want to go on believing it's not all accounted for and wasn't what we based our 'profit' on last season, knock yourself out.

len, do you understand the difference between P&L and balance sheet?

Go on Trig, tell us all how we're going to benefit from the £11m still left from Tevez. You think they missed it off when calculating we were £4m short before the next year kicked off?

 

[alcoblade]

All these development projects - starting with the Business Centre and Academy, right up to Fradi and God knows what else : Has Scarborough Group PLC or God knows what profitted from them as a seperate entity?

I don't know fella. My concern is that the loss making businesses at best limit our investment on the field (happening now I fear) and at worst take us under.

Since McCabe came on the plus side we've had a season of top flight football, filled the corner in, built the academy and acquired lots of assetts

On the minus side we've taken on £50M of debt (there abouts, sorry), huge interest payments and assetts that are losing money. The product of the academy are sold off to cover this.

A score drawer would be the playing side which was poor when he arrived and is poor now.

Whilst I can't understand how people can accuse McCabe of not spending money (though let's remember in the end it will be ours not his), I can't see why it's beyond question as to if it was worth it or if we're stronger for it. For me he's shown lots of ambition. Sadly, too much in the wrong places.

UTB

 

[Micalijo]

spot on vancouver, some people will find things to complain about if were top of the premier league and holders of the champions league trophy. McCabe has done loads for the club and I have met him and he is a decent genuine bloke. It's his money and he can do what the hell he likes with it. Hopefully he won't read these pages and see what some of the clueless set think of him.

What a load of rubbish. 'Clueless set', nice one Stafford. You just drink in all his ridiculous spin.

Well aware it's his money and he can do what he wants with it, said so plenty of times, but that doesn't make him exempt from criticism over these property debts. I know the values might rise but this is more than a recession to me and I think the quick, easy buck that developers like him devoured will never be available again. We've missed the boat football wise and property wise.

There's plenty of good and he's supported a fantastic wage bill over last 3 years, no doubt about that, but I honestly think the Valad share debacle has affected him really badly, he's had to spend alot of time sorting that out and starting again almost with things like Scarborough Pacific, trying to get his cash wealth back up again to what he thought it would be post disposal to Valad.

Sounds daft I know but I don't think he's a very happy man at the moment.

 

[Compound_Legend]

A 3 sided ground.
2 board members -1 convicted for fraud,one still at large.
A close miss with an Iraqi businessman who wanted to buy us out,who later became a woman.
A chairman who raided his company pension fund,leaving hundreds of his employees destitute.
A megalomaniac Mancunian who wanted to merge both Sheffield clubs,and his own "Mr Burns" type hanger-on,who wouldn't think twice about selling the clubs 2 best players on the same day when the club are top of the league.

Remember them with warm affection,do ya? Because some of us have long memories. We can remember how shit the running of our club has been in the last 25 years.And thank christ,we hope its all in the past.

And some off you still want rid of McCabe? If you want us to return to the "good old days" like those above,you'd be like a turkey voting for christmas.

 

[alcoblade]

A 3 sided ground.
2 board members -1 convicted for fraud,one still at large.
A close miss with an Iraqi businessman who wanted to buy us out,who later became a woman.
A chairman who raided his company pension fund,leaving hundreds of his employees destitute.
A megalomaniac Mancunian who wanted to merge both Sheffield clubs,and his own "Mr Burns" type hanger-on,who wouldn't think twice about selling the clubs 2 best players on the same day when the club are top of the league.

Some of us have long memories of how shit the running of our club has been.And thank christ,we hope its all in the past.

And some off you still want rid of McCabe? If you want us to return to the "good old days" like those above,you'd be like a turkey voting for christmas.

I don't want rid of McCabe and I don't think many do, but a list of the ladyboys and interpol's most wanted that have previously been involved in the club is not a strong case for what McCabe is doing right. Surely his supporters can offer better than the fact that he's never had a sex change?

UTB

 

[de g.]

How is McCabe putting time in for free?
He acquired the club expecting to make money on it, it's just a business like any other.
And tell us what proportion of his assets he has put into the club? And how is United as an asset actually divorced from the £175m he's worth, according to the S Times?

So far, McCabe has taken no money out of the club. Therefore, to all intents and purposes, the time he has put in to date is for free.

As for buying the club as an asset, tell me how many businessmen have bought a football club and left with substantially more than it was bought for. There is a good reason why they say that the best way to make £10m as a football club owner is to start with £100m.

I don't know how much of his wealth McCabe has put in to the club. What I do know is that it is not for you, me, or anyone else to tell McCabe what he must or must not spend on the club. If he went, we'd be in a much worse situation than we are now; if he'd never come we might well not have a club at all. So much as we all want the best for our club, a bit of recognition and gratitude wouldn't go amiss.

 

[alcoblade]

I don't know how much of his wealth McCabe has put in to the club. What I do know is that it is not for you, me, or anyone else to tell McCabe what he must or must not spend on the club. If he went, we'd be in a much worse situation than we are now; if he'd never come we might well not have a club at all. So much as we all want the best for our club, a bit of recognition and gratitude wouldn't go amiss.

It's this bit I don't get. We've got a £50M debt, not a gift of £50M from McCabe. Why do I have to feel so grateful for this? Why am I not allowed to feel concerned that "my" club (I know it's not mine BTW) is heavily in debt and is burdened with the likes of Chengdu that lost £2.5M in one season alone.

What's the likelihood that we wouldn't have had a club without him? Judging by the list of clubs that have gone bust (I mean bust) I'd say next to zero. In fact, judging by the size of our debt, I'd say it's more likely now than ever before.

If any of it were a gift I'd understand it. But I don't.....

UTB

 

[lenners]

So far, McCabe has taken no money out of the club. Therefore, to all intents and purposes, the time he has put in to date is for free.

As for buying the club as an asset, tell me how many businessmen have bought a football club and left with substantially more than it was bought for. There is a good reason why they say that the best way to make £10m as a football club owner is to start with £100m.

I don't know how much of his wealth McCabe has put in to the club. What I do know is that it is not for you, me, or anyone else to tell McCabe what he must or must not spend on the club. If he went, we'd be in a much worse situation than we are now; if he'd never come we might well not have a club at all. So much as we all want the best for our club, a bit of recognition and gratitude wouldn't go amiss.

Yes masser, me so grateful and humble to big mister who runs the club.
How would we have never had a club at all? He's lumped us with £50m debt and we'd we worse off if he left? Where's he going to go? He's run us so badly no-one's interested.
Never, ever forget it's our club. Not McCabe's or any other individual. He can spend or not spend what he likes, it's a free country.
But cobblers to not criticising the mess he's created.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

So far, McCabe has taken no money out of the club. Therefore, to all intents and purposes, the time he has put in to date is for free.

As for buying the club as an asset, tell me how many businessmen have bought a football club and left with substantially more than it was bought for. There is a good reason why they say that the best way to make £10m as a football club owner is to start with £100m.

I don't know how much of his wealth McCabe has put in to the club. What I do know is that it is not for you, me, or anyone else to tell McCabe what he must or must not spend on the club. If he went, we'd be in a much worse situation than we are now; if he'd never come we might well not have a club at all. So much as we all want the best for our club, a bit of recognition and gratitude wouldn't go amiss.

I second every single bit of that. Top post de g! The problem though, is that you're trying to get this message across to people who haven't a small percentage of the business acumen their target for abuse has. They also dont own a football club but have an astonishing depth of opinions on how badly the man has supposedly run ours.

I dont think anyone holds McCabe up to be blameless and we all know he's had errors of judgment but for the time and money he has invested I feel we can be satisfied that he's done his level best. He's not calling in our debt to him at this time (certainly not openly), he is working hard to secure new investment and has given the rabble what they want on more than one occasion with the sackings of Robson and Blackwell. Two men he had backed financially prior to their dismissal.

I'm not going to accuse anyone of saying he's not entitled to his £50m back, because the mere suggestion is absurd. It doesnt matter how much money the man has, its all relative and not a single person in or around the football club has any right to call him for seeking to reclaim what is rightfully his. He hasnt become a multi-millionaire by being a charity.

Any damage caused by his property ventures are of no concern to me as long as he sets about protecting the interests of the football club. I am confident that he is doing just that. Unless of course you want him to show some "ambition" and keep finding ways to bankroll things we cant afford? Fuck it, lets do a Portsmouth.....it will be fun until the shit hits the fan.

Football is changing folks. The potential to become an established member of the elite has long gone.....and we missed the boat long before Kevin McCabe was ever involved with SUFC.

---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------

Yes masser, me so grateful and humble to big mister who runs the club.
How would we have never had a club at all? He's lumped us with £50m debt and we'd we worse off if he left? Where's he going to go? He's run us so badly no-one's interested.
Never, ever forget it's our club. Not McCabe's or any other individual. He can spend or not spend what he likes, it's a free country.
But cobblers to not criticising the mess he's created.

Len.....how many football clubs do you think operate without debt?

 

[alcoblade]

Any damage caused by his property ventures are of no concern to me as long as he sets about protecting the interests of the football club. I am confident that he is doing just that. Unless of course you want him to show some "ambition" and keep finding ways to bankroll things we cant afford? Fuck it, lets do a Portsmouth.....it will be fun until the shit hits the fan..

Clueless muppet here, sorry for asking but......

How does £50M of debt, a loss making hotel, a corrupt loss making Chinese club and properties bought at the top of one of the biggest property bubbles in history give you confidence he's doing just that? Have you ever stopped to question? It is allowed you know,

I'll reiterate, I don't want rid because who's in the queue? I don't doubt he was and is well intentioned. I have extreme doubts that his model has worked and not left us worse off.

I don't want to go further into debt. We've already done a Portsmouth, sadly bypassing the FA cup and settled premiership bit. You're within your rights to be happy with it all. I'm within mine to not be. Just not, of all places, on a discussion board it seems.

UTB

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Clueless muppet here, sorry for asking but......

How does £50M of debt, a loss making hotel, a corrupt loss making Chinese club and properties bought at the top of one of the biggest property bubbles in history give you confidence he's doing just that? Have you ever stopped to question? It is allowed you know,

I'll reiterate, I don't want rid because who's in the queue? I don't doubt he was and is well intentioned. I have extreme doubts that his model has worked and not left us worse off.

I don't want to go further into debt. We've already done a Portsmouth, sadly bypassing the FA cup and settled premiership bit. You're within your rights to be happy with it all. I'm within mine to not be. Just not, of all places, on a discussion board it seems.

UTB

I'm not calling you a clueless muppet alco. You post some good stuff on here as it happens and ive agreed with you on certain issues in the past, it seems not on this though.

Ok, lets look at "How does £50M of debt, a loss making hotel, a corrupt loss making Chinese club and properties bought at the top of one of the biggest property bubbles in history" - since you have the benefit of hindsight where McCabe hadnt, what would you have done differently?

I dont think many people saw the property market collapse.....most chose to ignore it like some sort of fool's paradise. Granted some of us saw shit coming but when you're making money you can be blind to such things. No one is saying he didnt make huge mistakes there anyway.

The fact is that the man was looking for alternative ways to build a better future for SUFC and to find funding for the team. Some of his ventures have backfired.....shit happens. Most football clubs in this country are far worse off than Sheffield United.....far far worse. Our neighbours are just the tip of the iceberg.

I never said I was happy, but I dont need to verbally crucify any one individual for our failings. I stop to question things this club does all the time alco. I also have the ability to stop and think that its easy for me to pontificate about what a man in a very difficult job should have done with the benefit of hindsight. All very easy when youre not the one calling the shots. It is what it is as far as I'm concerned. Best to put the front foot forward and work on making things better.

Dwelling only moves you in one direction.

 

[alcoblade]

I'm not calling you a clueless muppet alco. You post some good stuff on here as it happens and ive agreed with you on certain issues in the past, it seems not on this though.

Ok, lets look at "How does £50M of debt, a loss making hotel, a corrupt loss making Chinese club and properties bought at the top of one of the biggest property bubbles in history" - since you have the benefit of hindsight where McCabe hadnt, what would you have done differently?

I dont think many people saw the property market collapse.....most chose to ignore it like some sort of fool's paradise. Granted some of us saw shit coming but when you're making money you can be blind to such things. No one is saying he didnt make huge mistakes there anyway.

The fact is that the man was looking for alternative ways to build a better future for SUFC and to find funding for the team. Some of his ventures have backfired.....shit happens. Most football clubs in this country are far worse off than Sheffield United.....far far worse. Our neighbours are just the tip of the iceberg.

I never said I was happy, but I dont need to verbally crucify any one individual for our failings. I stop to question things this club does all the time alco. I also have the ability to stop and think that its easy for me to pontificate about what a man in a very difficult job should have done with the benefit of hindsight. All very easy when youre not the one calling the shots. It is what it is as far as I'm concerned. Best to put the front foot forward and work on making things better.

Dwelling only moves you in one direction.

Well I think we're in almost complete agreement. As I've said, he set out with the best of intentions, IMHO. He still has them. But his actions haven't worked in our favour, you concede this. You say some of his ventures haven't come off. Have any? Can you name them? (that's a question, I don't know)

I accept that this is hindsight - though the top of the property bubble was predicted by many, if sadly not our own property expert. But again, I'm not questioning his motives. I'm questioning whether we're stronger for it. If they'd come off he's be rightly lauded as "the messiah". If they don't, we must at least recognise it. As it stands, the interest that's accruing on the money that he's lent us may have to come out of the football club, not the other assets. However well intentioned he is, I'm not at all happy about that.

UTB