Budget

[Sean Thornton]

Whilst not being one to normally take a swipe at Kev or the Prince, if the consensus is right it doesn't give Wilder much wriggle room, does it?

Next to none for a genuine promotion challenge.

Remember though that Coutts injury apart there were quite a few on here in Piss the league mode a couple of months ago, how many are now steaming about desperate for signings?

 

[secretchief]

The general consensus is that whatever he gets has to cover wages as well.

So in other words a trifling amount.

 

[Sean Thornton]

So in other words a trifling amount.

I haven't seen anyone say anything else, so yes.

 

[The Crab]

So in other words a trifling amount.

 

[secretchief]

I'll be sure to be puddin' more dessert based words in my posts in future.

 

[BushBlade]

Could be worse.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...if-he-continues-to-be-overlooked-on-transfers

 

[Danny_Boy]

Without a hint of irony

You may feel I'm being unfair Danny but I don't think I am. The Star is the only media outlet I have seen that actually do seem to favour our City rivals in my opinion.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Next to none for a genuine promotion challenge.

Remember though that Coutts injury apart there were quite a few on here in Piss the league mode a couple of months ago, how many are now steaming about desperate for signings?

You are, of course, correct. Although a serious omission, I don't subscribe to Coutts' loss as an explanation for the dip in form. Overall I consider us a decent side, but with room for improvement.

As for our promotion chances, there's a part of me that's mystified but the reluctance of our owners to up Wilder's budget by a minimum 3 or 4 million. I know it's easy to spend other people's money, but here we are, on a roll, after 6 seasons in Div.1 and now we have a chance of promotion to the premiership. Yet our owners seem incapable of allowing Wilder to look beyond the lower reaches of the football league? If promotion were achieved, I suppose any transfers would be paid for by the dosh we get as a member of that club, so presumably there'd be little or no financial support from the board? Sorry for the cynical tone, but if any of the above rings true then it's new ownership we need, which also brings with it a number of relevant questions, one being "Be careful what you wish for". By which I mean what type of owner might take over.

I do understand that we can't take the type of punt associated with other clubs, but a few million extra? Just to enable Chris to strengthen and maybe improve our promotion chances. What's to say that we'll get this chance any time soon?

 

[Blade58]

Companies house site showing no new capital raised through new share issue for Blades Leisure since the summer. Unclear what the two new loan facilities were for before xmas but my guess is Wilder is having to work with budgets set way back at the beginning of the season and/or from any ins and outs since. Unclear whats happened to any sell on money received.

Factored loans.

I was told this but didn't ask what they factored against. I presume against guaranteed incoming revenues such as sell on monies we're due

Perhaps this is how CW's transfer budget is being manifested?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Factored loans.

I was told this but didn't ask what they factored against. I presume against guaranteed incoming revenues such as sell on monies we're due

Perhaps this is how CW's transfer budget is being manifested?

The share capital increase was in the last financial year but only filed later.

Factored loans? Could it be the sell on money hasn't come in one lump sum?

 

[Blade58]

OK, I've commented extensively on the budget and I'm not saying any more. I genuinely have nothing to add that I haven't posted already.

My concern is this new director and what his role is. I share Biggy Smalls' concerns over this bloke having any direct control over what Wilder does. If his job is to head up European scouting and make recommendations to CW, great. If he has any input into who the club signs, not so great. If he starts trying to veto CW's signings, very bad. For me, it's a much bigger issue than the JTW budget. I can't see CW walking because money is tight, he knows the score on that front but start telling him he can't sign the players he wants or start signing players over his head and I think he could go.

I am told he won't be interfering in CW's role

Let's be reyt, I think it's fair to say that we know and the board know, that CW wouldn't stand for it and would walk at the first sign of interference. The Prince especially would be well aware of the risk of Van Winkel sticking his nose into CW's role at the club and I don't believe the board would be stupid enough to allow that happen

 

[Blade58]

The share capital increase was in the last financial year but only filed later.

Factored loans? Could it be the sell on money hasn't come in one lump sum?

That's my assumption Sean

I was half cut when I was having the conversation and I didn't push this topic. Too busy asking about Brooks, board resignations and transfer budgets, hence my numerous posts saying up until Xmas Eve (being half cut and merry) no bids received for young Brooks

The fella who spoke to me was a proper gentleman, sober as a judge and could have told me to piss off, so I appreciated his time

 

[stringer]

You may feel I'm being unfair Danny but I don't think I am. The Star is the only media outlet I have seen that actually do seem to favour our City rivals in my opinion.

I've done this debate to death but I'm sure you have something (anything) to back that up

 

[Darthblade]

Next to none for a genuine promotion challenge.

Remember though that Coutts injury apart there were quite a few on here in Piss the league mode a couple of months ago, how many are now steaming about desperate for signings?

I was personally never in "piss the league" mode; I know what you mean though as a few of the chaps got a little over-excited with our great results that Tufty crafted on a quite modest budget. I was delighted, but realistic, even when we were sitting top for a little while.

The problem has always been that the squad is paper thin in terms of real quality ( I mean no disrespect to the back-up players) and whilst our best 11 ( which includes Coutts ) can give anyone in the Division a decent game, we are currently very "inconsistent" due to injuries, suspensions and loss of form.

A competitive squad isn't created overnight, but it does need to be improved at every opportunity, as transfer windows open and close at predictable times.

This is one of those opportunities to add quality to the squad; we don't want bench-warmers any more like we got under Clough & Adkins. We need players who are capable of pushing for a first team place immediately and "making a difference" and this is what I believe that Tufty wants as well.

Tufty is not a manager who looks to spend money that he doesn't believe needs to be spent ....... on that basis and regardless of what we all think, the Board should be grateful and give him the backing that he asks for ...... imho

UTB & FTP

 

[I should coco]

I've done this debate to death but I'm sure you have something (anything) to back that up

As recently as 1975, your august publication ran their 'Save our Owls' campaign.

Despite United hitting the lows of the 4th division and financial problems pre and post Brearley, no similar help was offered for S2.

Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice.....

Not that I'm one to nurse an old grudge or anything though.

 

[Danny_Boy]

I've done this debate to death but I'm sure you have something (anything) to back that up

Well then I won't waste your time trying to debate it again. It's just the impression I get on how things are reported, in my opinion if something negative happens with Wednesday the Star try's to put a positive spin on it, where as if something negative happens at United they can't wait to stick the boot in.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I was personally never in "piss the league" mode; I know what you mean though as a few of the chaps got a little over-excited with our great results that Tufty crafted on a quite modest budget. I was delighted, but realistic, even when we were sitting top for a little while.

The problem has always been that the squad is paper thin in terms of real quality ( I mean no disrespect to the back-up players) and whilst our best 11 ( which includes Coutts ) can give anyone in the Division a decent game, we are currently very "inconsistent" due to injuries, suspensions and loss of form.

A competitive squad isn't created overnight, but it does need to be improved at every opportunity, as transfer windows open and close at predictable times.

This is one of those opportunities to add quality to the squad; we don't want bench-warmers any more like we got under Clough & Adkins. We need players who are capable of pushing for a first team place immediately and "making a difference" and this is what I believe that Tufty wants as well.

Tufty is not a manager who looks to spend money that he doesn't believe needs to be spent ....... on that basis and regardless of what we all think, the Board should be grateful and give him the backing that he asks for ...... imho

UTB & FTP

Great post

 

[Blade58]

Tufty is not a manager who looks to spend money that he doesn't believe needs to be spent ....... on that basis and regardless of what we all think, the Board should be grateful and give him the backing that he asks for ...... imho

UTB & FTP

He may have been given what he asked for Darth

 

[stringer]

As recently as 1975, your august publication ran their 'Save our Owls' campaign.

Despite United hitting the lows of the 4th division and financial problems pre and post Brearley, no similar help was offered for S2.

Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice.....

Not that I'm one to nurse an old grudge or anything though.

Sorry ISC, I thought you said recently!

Well then I won't waste your time trying to debate it again. It's just the impression I get on how things are reported, in my opinion if something negative happens with Wednesday the Star try's to put a positive spin on it, where as if something negative happens at United they can't wait to stick the boot in.

No examples then? I don't mind a debate on it. Some Owls think the paper got Carlos sacked with a stream of negativity

 

[I should coco]

Sorry ISC, I thought you said recently!

I did.

When your my age, the mid 70s seems like only yesterday.

I remember the first aeroplane flying over Sheffield and the Queen coming to visit. That Victoria, she were a right lady!

We could have a little singsong if you like (think Clive Dunn on speed):

 

[Lawrence]

You are, of course, correct. Although a serious omission, I don't subscribe to Coutts' loss as an explanation for the dip in form. Overall I consider us a decent side, but with room for improvement.

As for our promotion chances, there's a part of me that's mystified but the reluctance of our owners to up Wilder's budget by a minimum 3 or 4 million. I know it's easy to spend other people's money, but here we are, on a roll, after 6 seasons in Div.1 and now we have a chance of promotion to the premiership. Yet our owners seem incapable of allowing Wilder to look beyond the lower reaches of the football league? If promotion were achieved, I suppose any transfers would be paid for by the dosh we get as a member of that club, so presumably there'd be little or no financial support from the board? Sorry for the cynical tone, but if any of the above rings true then it's new ownership we need, which also brings with it a number of relevant questions, one being "Be careful what you wish for". By which I mean what type of owner might take over.

I do understand that we can't take the type of punt associated with other clubs, but a few million extra? Just to enable Chris to strengthen and maybe improve our promotion chances. What's to say that we'll get this chance any time soon?

Completely agree! McCabe is supposed to be a business man? the Prince is supposed to want United in the Premiere League? It’s January and we are 6th and looking good... I don’t fear anyone at the moment, no teams jump out except maybe Wolves? The prize for going up is £180 million! I’m not asking for millions (that’s not CW style or mine) but a modest investment of 3 to 5 million (even 10) on 4 players would be a good bet with what the club could achieve this season, sounds a lot (for United) but in this climate it would be peanuts. The alternative would be ‘not to take the risk’ (never take the risk) and finish 7th? and then who’s to say next season we do a Wendy?. I think you have to jump at the chance when you get it or regret it afterwards. I remember not so long ago we sold off the 2 kyles, took the 10mil and within 2 seasons we were in League one, how much did that ultimately cost (McCabe) our club over the following 6 years (more than £10 mil) I don’t want to see United splash out ridiculous amounts of money on players and wages but is 3 to 5 million on 4 players really splashing out in this day and age?

 

[I should coco]

It’s January and we are 6th and looking good...

7th actually.

Coutts out for the season.
Brooks out until March
Billy should be sold (according to some)

As you say, he is a 'businessman' not a gambler.

Still always easy when it's somone else's money you're spending, isn't it?

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I was personally never in "piss the league" mode; I know what you mean though as a few of the chaps got a little over-excited with our great results that Tufty crafted on a quite modest budget. I was delighted, but realistic, even when we were sitting top for a little while.

The problem has always been that the squad is paper thin in terms of real quality ( I mean no disrespect to the back-up players) and whilst our best 11 ( which includes Coutts ) can give anyone in the Division a decent game, we are currently very "inconsistent" due to injuries, suspensions and loss of form.

A competitive squad isn't created overnight, but it does need to be improved at every opportunity, as transfer windows open and close at predictable times.

This is one of those opportunities to add quality to the squad; we don't want bench-warmers any more like we got under Clough & Adkins. We need players who are capable of pushing for a first team place immediately and "making a difference" and this is what I believe that Tufty wants as well.

Tufty is not a manager who looks to spend money that he doesn't believe needs to be spent ....... on that basis and regardless of what we all think, the Board should be grateful and give him the backing that he asks for ...... imho

UTB & FTP

......and that's the problem with have as a club at the moment. It appears to be a case of two steps forward on the pitch, two steps backward in the boardroom. Wilder has worked ever increasing miracles for the last 18 months, he's pushed the club on to just outside the play-offs with players who some doubted could play in the 1st division. He can't keep pulling rabbits out of hats, and if he does, eventually another club will give him the chance of a bigger hat.

I sat in the Platinum Suite in the summer listening to McCabe say that funds would be made available to push the club on should they be needed in January. Well, they are now needed and they don't appear to be forthcoming. I fully appreciate that if £2.5m is all we have, it's all we can spend, but I wish McCabe won't let his mouth write cheques, our bank account can't cash. Better to keep quiet.

The sum of money mentioned doesn't push us on, it barely keeps us treading water and fills in the gaps in the squad we've had since season's start. If it includes wages as well, then 2/3's of our budget basically buys a mid 20's, defensive midfielder, who has never played above the 3rd tier of English football. The remainder buys Devante Cole. Let's not fool ourselves, unless Ched quickly recaptures his 2011/12 form, we're a serious injury to Clarke away from serious problems.

 

[Danny_Boy]

Sorry ISC, I thought you said recently!



No examples then? I don't mind a debate on it. Some Owls think the paper got Carlos sacked with a stream of negativity

It is difficult to provide exact examples because a lot of it is based on the tone of the articles which granted might be my imagination but I don't think it is, there is in my opinion slight Wednesday bias in the star. You won't change my mind on it and nor will you change a lot of Blades minds. You seem to defend them on a few other posts too, do you work for them or have some connection with them? Also if you do, can I ask is the editor a Wednesday fan?

 

[B14Nco]

Thoughts?

Alan Biggs is a shit stirring pork lover who knows next to fuck all when it comes to any inside knowledge at BDTBL

One of those really infuriating ‘respected’ local journos who achieve this status by nothing more than time served. Very little insight and regurgitates what’s already out there. Badly.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Is there a possibility that the board are happy to remain in the Championship,the ground is "almost" full each home game,Wilder is keeping the punters happy with the football,just look at all the massive expenditure that would have come with going up to the Prem,higher fee's,higher wages,build a bigger stand or two,,,,,how much do you get in the Prem £100m how far would that go,maybe they dont want the pressure on the pocket.

I hear what you're saying but I think that the second they 'settle' for that, is the second they can kiss all that goodbye. Players would move on, keen to extend their ambitions elsewhere, the quality of football would suffer, the momentum would slow down and the attendances would drop.

And so, to quote JohnDenver ...

One comment on all this... the moment we stop building is the moment we start to fall back from all the progress we’ve made.

It doesn’t have to be big money, but it must mean new players and refreshing the squad. We’re keeping our quality players at the moment because of our upward trajectory.

As soon as we come out of a transfer window unchanged, or even having lost one of our best players, it’s most likely going to mean we’ve topped-out for a while.

I don’t expect multimillions, but keeping our quality and augmenting the backup with players who can genuinely pressurise the established lads will do fine for me.

This, this and thrice this! Well said that man. It needn't cost the earth. A Leonard calibre player for a decent price, a loanee right back, and hold on to our existing players will do me just fine!!

UTB!

 

[stringer]

It is difficult to provide exact examples because a lot of it is based on the tone of the articles which granted might be my imagination but I don't think it is, there is in my opinion slight Wednesday bias in the star. You won't change my mind on it and nor will you change a lot of Blades minds. You seem to defend them on a few other posts too, do you work for them or have some connection with them? Also if you do, can I ask is the editor a Wednesday fan?

Putting straight inaccuracies because you have insider knowledge isn’t ‘defending’. If an American told you United play in blue, you saying ‘no, it’s red’ isn’t defending anyone. Yes, I do and no, she isn’t.

 

[Th!stledo]

Sorry if it has been already said, but I don't have the time to read through the last 5 pages.

Personally I will wait till the end of the transfer window before forming an opinion. Common sense would say that announcing an amount or even giving an impression that there is a large kitty will only inflate the transfer fees and wage demands of any potential signings.

Maybe there is a big pot and maybe not. CW has earned my respect and trust that whatever the situation he will give 100% to do the best he can to get us the success we have been so starved off in the recent past.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Sorry if it has been already said, but I don't have the time to read through the last 5 pages.

Personally I will wait till the end of the transfer window before forming an opinion. Common sense would say that announcing an amount or even giving an impression that there is a large kitty will only inflate the transfer fees and wage demands of any potential signings.

Maybe there is a big pot and maybe not. CW has earned my respect and trust that whatever the situation he will give 100% to do the best he can to get us the success we have been so starved off in the recent past.

Why wait,get your digs in daily,

 

[Lawrence]

7th actually.

Coutts out for the season.
Brooks out until March
Billy should be sold (according to some)

As you say, he is a 'businessman' not a gambler.

Still always easy when it's somone else's money you're spending, isn't it?

Haha, I knew someone would point out that we are 7th!

McCabe is a businessman and would be making an educated bet with a low calculated risk (5mil to £180mil)

I’m not saying spend money for spending money’s sake. I’m saying that if there is a player that is CW wants for £2mil for example, we should just get them, rather than doing what I imagine we would do and try and find someone not quite as good for less money, or offer much less (such as Leonard). If he is a business man he should bring in the best talent to take his venture forward.

The simple premise is, find a player you think can take us up. Buy him. If you think he can take us up then he is worth it, right? If you don’t, then why are we looking at him?

I would personally say that spending small amounts is more of a gamble than buying what we want regardless (to a certain extent) of cost.

Regarding “it’s much easier when it’s not your money”... this opinion is my opinion on most things. I don’t think throwing money at the problem is the best solution at all, but if there is a piece of kit I think is better for my business and costs more I will get it. Now, I’m not talking about millions of pounds here with my business, but it’s the same principle.

Not taking the gamble would be the bad bet!