Brian Deane on Breakfast

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I've just watched it, and I've got a lot of sympathy for them. They earned a lot of money, but they have been defrauded out of much of it.

Theft is theft.

To add insult to.injury HMRC are coming after them for money they made which was subsequently stolen from them.

How is that close to being fair?

There are a lot of broken people out there, thanks to these fraudsters and it's sad to see
 
wavy-blade said:
Deano is left a wreck really , breaking down crying at least twice on the program , HMRC after them all for money they haven't got , they have all been ripped off by financial advice , having to sell their houses ! Some Been left bankrupt !
Danny Murphy is one of them
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I have sympathy for some of the players on the programme, but I'm struggling with Murphy. He borrowed £1m from a Private bank, to invest in film schemes. If he wasn't doing it to reduce/defer his tax bill, what was he doing? His excuse of 'oh I just signed any bit of paper they put in front of me on my way to a team meeting' seemed a bit of a cop out.
 
Tickhill Blade said:
I have sympathy for some of the players on the programme, but I'm struggling with Murphy. He borrowed £1m from a Private bank, to invest in film schemes. If he wasn't doing it to reduce/defer his tax bill, what was he doing? His excuse of 'oh I just signed any bit of paper on my way to a team meeting' seemed a bit of a cop out
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Craig Short’s wife said there were some that could pay their tax bill off tomorrow but wanted to highlight the issue that had affected their colleagues. I assumed Murphy was one of those.
 
SouthStandGBlock said:
I've just watched it, and I've got a lot of sympathy for them. They earned a lot of money, but they have been defrauded out of much of it.

Theft is theft.

To add insult to.injury HMRC are coming after them for money they made which was subsequently stolen from them.

How is that close to being fair?

There are a lot of broken people out there, thanks to these fraudsters and it's sad to see
Click to expand...
That’s not even the case. HMRC coming after them for the tax liability on the whole investment (not just their portion) of the investment vehicle that went south. So, not only have they lost the money to the sham property scheme they were duped into, and not only lost money to forged docs they didn’t even sign but the Revenue is coming after them for additional money, like £400k touch, that they don’t have and never had. They didn’t make anything. They lost it all but still have to shoulder the tax liability.
Rod Wallace had to file for bankruptcy in Feb 2024.

If any of you think this is ok cos they had a big wedge to begin with I pity your sad little envious piety.
 
Some ignorance on this thread.

Some misguided views on what players from decades ago were trying do (ie not waste or blow their wages and invest for when they finished).

It used to be that those pissing it up the wall were derided.

Not sure investing in property or listening to advice based on a Gvt backed scheme to defer tax is being greedy IMHO.
 
Kenilworth said:
That’s not even the case. HMRC coming after them for the tax liability on the whole investment (not just their portion) of the investment vehicle that went south. So, not only have they lost the money to the sham property scheme they were duped into, and not only lost money to forged docs they didn’t even sign but the Revenue is coming after them for additional money, like £400k touch, that they don’t have and never had. They didn’t make anything. They lost it all but still have to shoulder the tax liability.
Rod Wallace had to file for bankruptcy in Feb 2024.

If any of you think this is ok cos they had a big wedge to begin with I pity your sad little envious piety.
Click to expand...


Didn’t they get the tax relief in earlier years therefore reducing the amount of tax payable in those years? Isn’t the HMRC position a reassessment of those years after denying the validity of the schemes they were sold? Simplified l know. (And possibly erroneous as I didn’t catch the first twenty minutes) . Nick Jansky?

It’s really two stories one arising from the other. More detailed information would be interesting. Especially over the policing. The “Hmrc changed its policy” excuse from Kingsbridge is laughable. It’s their vehicle that failed.
 
Kenilworth said:
That’s not even the case. HMRC coming after them for the tax liability on the whole investment (not just their portion) of the investment vehicle that went south. So, not only have they lost the money to the sham property scheme they were duped into, and not only lost money to forged docs they didn’t even sign but the Revenue is coming after them for additional money, like £400k touch, that they don’t have and never had. They didn’t make anything. They lost it all but still have to shoulder the tax liability.
Rod Wallace had to file for bankruptcy in Feb 2024.

If any of you think this is ok cos they had a big wedge to begin with I pity your sad little envious piety.
Click to expand...
100% agree with you.

It's not quite at sub-postmaster levels (as some of them unfortunately went to prison or took their own lives), but it's very close.

To put it into context, imagine getting to retirement, then finding that the company pension you had put into all your working life had been stolen because someone had put your money into a dodgy overseas property scheme. With paperwork you'd never seen or signed?

Then HMRC come after you for income tax you would have had to pay on the pension you never got. And also for some extra tax your boss owed because he earned more than you and was also in your pension scheme. Oh, and added interest to the tax bill because you hadn't paid it.

That's pretty much what has happened here.

Some of the comments on here about rich footballers are just plain stupid. These people have been stolen from, plain and simple.

The added tragedy is that the IFA's who did it have got away with it, the FCA haven't done their job, the police have filed the papers, and HMRC are coming after the victims.

The weight of the State is coming after the victims not the perpetrators.

It's not right.

We've seen it happen before with the sub postmasters and it's happening again here. Brian Deane was as hard as nails, yet he was crying on TV because of the effect it has had in him and his family.

It's another injustice, and we should be supporting the victims, who are people we enjoyed being entertained by, rather than being smug that young, rich footballers have been duped out of lots of money.
 
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Rodders said:
Craig Short’s wife said there were some that could pay their tax bill off tomorrow but wanted to highlight the issue that had affected their colleagues. I assumed Murphy was one of those.
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Plus he's the highest profile player they showed as he's still on TV so presumably has media profile still.

Rod Wallace was declared bankrupt, Tommy Johnson has had to sell his house, I think Murphy is ok but he got taken for £5m.
 
Davalon said:
Some ignorance on this thread.

Some misguided views on what players from decades ago were trying do (ie not waste or blow their wages and invest for when they finished).

It used to be that those pissing it up the wall were derided.

Not sure investing in property or listening to advice based on a Gvt backed scheme to defer tax is being greedy IMHO.
Click to expand...


The problem is while the reliefs available for film industry investments were government backed the tax avoidance scheme fell foul of the rules meaning that “advice” was more or less useless and could always be subject to HMRC challenge somewhere down the line.

You can’t fail to have sympathy when they put their trust in advisors who were seemingly milking them at every opportunity. I do wonder if any took any additional advice from an independent tax specialist or solicitor when filing?
 
Sean Thornton said:
The problem is while the reliefs available for film industry investments were government backed the tax avoidance scheme fell foul of the rules meaning that “advice” was more or less useless and could always be subject to HMRC challenge somewhere down the line.

You can’t fail to have sympathy when they put their trust in advisors who were seemingly milking them at every opportunity. I do wonder if any took any additional advice from an independent tax specialist or solicitor when filing?
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The “independent” tax specialists and accountants were milking the schemes for commissions for all they were worth. For the victims (and the footballers are merely the tip of a huge iceberg) they were generally recommended to join the schemes by professional advisors who they trusted and had no reason not to trust. We are now picking up the pieces.
 

ISZA ⚔️ said:
Reminds me of this guy. Blades fan Stewart Groves. Conned Gary Cahill out of £1m and got sentenced to 8yrs. Saw him at a United game back end of last season.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Financial advisor who conned Chelsea star out of £1m is jailed

The Chelsea defender even called Stewart Groves a friend and invited him to his wedding in 2013, before the Doncaster native swindled him.
www.dailymail.co.uk
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Father of a child in my daughter’s school year, he’s definitely out of prison as he’s been seen round here recently.
 
Nick Jansky said:
The “independent” tax specialists and accountants were milking the schemes for commissions for all they were worth. For the victims (and the footballers are merely the tip of a huge iceberg) they were generally recommended to join the schemes by professional advisors who they trusted and had no reason not to trust. We are now picking up the pieces.
Click to expand...


Did they benefit via tax relief initially and are the Revenue demands a reassessment of those years? Generally speaking?
 
Mad Mick said:
Just seen Deano on Breakfast TV talking about the huge amounts of money they have lost on investments. They just wanted to play football and invest in their future. Some are facing bankruptcy and losing their homes. Danny Murphy mentioned he lost 4 to 5 million in these investments. I am a retired IFA, and we used to say to clients, "If it looks too good to be true, it usually is". Very sad. I just wonder what the FCA has been doing about all this.
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Watched the documentary last night, the investmennt grou[ ( Knightsbridge ) were investigated by the met but insufficient evidence to prosecute, although the investors were identified as victims of crime. Wasnt ony footballers but Honest hard working peole aswell Bizzare
 
Tickhill Blade said:
I have sympathy for some of the players on the programme, but I'm struggling with Murphy. He borrowed £1m from a Private bank, to invest in film schemes. If he wasn't doing it to reduce/defer his tax bill, what was he doing? His excuse of 'oh I just signed any bit of paper they put in front of me on my way to a team meeting' seemed a bit of a cop out.
Click to expand...
Would they be making a documentary if those investments had quadrupled their wealth?
 
SouthStandGBlock said:
100% agree with you.

It's not quite at sub-postmaster levels (as some of them unfortunately went to prison or took their own lives), but it's very close.

To put it into context, imagine getting to retirement, then finding that the company pension you had put into all your working life had been stolen because someone had put your money into a dodgy overseas property scheme. With paperwork you'd never seen or signed?

Then HMRC come after you for income tax you would have had to pay on the pension you never got. And also for some extra tax your boss owed because he earned more than you and was also in your pension scheme. Oh, and added interest to the tax bill because you hadn't paid it.

That's pretty much what has happened here.

Some of the comments on here about rich footballers are just plain stupid. These people have been stolen from, plain and simple.

The added tragedy is that the IFA's who did it have got away with it, the FCA haven't done their job, the police have filed the papers, and HMRC are coming after the victims.

The weight of the State is coming after the victims not the perpetrators.

It's not right.

We've seen it happen before with the sub postmasters and it's happening again here. Brian Deane was as hard as nails, yet he was crying on TV because of the effect it has had in him and his family.

It's another injustice, and we should be supporting the victims, who are people we enjoyed being entertained by, rather than being smug that young, rich footballers have been duped out of lots of money.
Click to expand...
💯👏👍🏻
 
Berkshire Blade said:
A perfectly legal scheme brought in by the government. Not some shady tax avoidance. I suggest you watch it and then decide for yourself
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I have watched it and yes amazed police have dropped the case. Yes its wrong what’s happened to them but most people are at risk of being scammed these days and personal responsibility against fraud is much stronger through awareness of things the VII are highlighting.
Are Blair and Browne to blame for initiating the tax dodge opportunity; are the players innocent for trying to get rich quick without paying tax; is Wilkinson guilty of abusing his office to promote the schemes; are the police negligent in not pursuing an investigation and are the players guilty of greed? Probably yes but my point was/is I’m guessing the super rich players now aren’t just taking their ISA allowance and paying PAYE on their £1million a month salaries and there won’t be a documentary on how rich they’ve got and how they are using their wealth to create more wealth whilst minimising tax they pay to public services.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Did they benefit via tax relief initially and are the Revenue demands a reassessment of those years? Generally speaking?
Click to expand...
They claimed tax relief and it is a reassessment of earlier years. It’s not dissimilar to what is currently happening with R&D tax credits. Roundly abused by “professionals advisors” during a period of minimal or zero HMRC scrutiny (because there was a political will to make the reliefs work) and sold to people, typically via their accountants, as government backed and entirely legitimate. Verbal guarantees that it definitely works (at odds with the caveats in very small print in the engagement letter).
 
Nick Jansky said:
They claimed tax relief and it is a reassessment of earlier years. It’s not dissimilar to what is currently happening with R&D tax credits. Roundly abused by “professionals advisors” during a period of minimal or zero HMRC scrutiny (because there was a political will to make the reliefs work) and sold to people, typically via their accountants, as government backed and entirely legitimate. Verbal guarantees that it definitely works (at odds with the caveats in very small print in the engagement letter).
Click to expand...

Cheers!
 
I saw a lot of the problem started as a big confidence con, the players trusted these people, they were young and thought they were protecting their futures. Wilkinson appears to know more and players saw the likes of him ‘investing’ which helps the trust part of it all.

Some of those players are somewhere they will never get out of with the tax liabilities, they earn anything to pay it off, but get taxed more then add interest element that is constantly growing. It’ll never end
 

madeinsheffield said:
I saw a lot of the problem started as a big confidence con, the players trusted these people, they were young and thought they were protecting their futures. Wilkinson appears to know more and players saw the likes of him ‘investing’ which helps the trust part of it all.

Some of those players are somewhere they will never get out of with the tax liabilities, they earn anything to pay it off, but get taxed more then add interest element that is constantly growing. It’ll never end
Click to expand...
Wilkson doesn't come out of it all looking very good does he.
 
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