Breaking Berge in.

[CentralQuay]

I've got to say, the attitude towards him on here, and the way Wilder has dealt with him, has not looked good for the young man.

Tonight he's getting criticism when he, a holding midfielder, is being brought on to a game that is already over and is somehow being expected to turn the game on its head.
Against Newcastle he was took off, despite being the best midfielder in red and white, admittedly it was not too difficult, whilst Norwood playing in Berge's position could not pass the ball 3 yards.

Wilder hasn't helped the lad either. Subbing him off when he's having a better game in a position he does not play, than the guy having a stinker in the position he wants to play, is not going to do his confidence any favors.
Then despite being better than Norwood in that game, he's left to watch Norwood and the team go 2-0 down, game over, and then he's finally allowed to play 45 minute, almost like some kind of punishment.

"Slow", "Unfit", "Lightweight" etc etc.

Believe it or not, 75%+ of all foreign signings look like that stepping into this league.
Destroying his confidence is not going to make him perform any better.

 

[lazyfecklessblade]

Thought he did alright tbh, then again the only second opinion I had was Gary Neville on Sky creaming himself

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Believe it or not, 75%+ of all foreign signings look like that stepping into this league.

I'll choose not to believe that nugget, cheers.

 

[CentralQuay]

I'll choose not to believe that nugget, cheers.

If you have evidence to the contrary i'm happy to hear it.

 

[shrubbery]

He looked okay but didn’t exactly push the boat out as pretty much all his passes were of the 5 metre variety. Thought he again looked week when vying for the ball.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

If you have evidence to the contrary i'm happy to hear it.

It's your claim, it's up to you to prove it, not me to prove my doubts. Away you go....

 

[Deadbat]

I've got to say, the attitude towards him on here, and the way Wilder has dealt with him, has not looked good for the young man.

Tonight he's getting criticism when he, a holding midfielder, is being brought on to a game that is already over and is somehow being expected to turn the game on its head.
Against Newcastle he was took off, despite being the best midfielder in red and white, admittedly it was not too difficult, whilst Norwood playing in Berge's position could not pass the ball 3 yards.

Wilder hasn't helped the lad either. Subbing him off when he's having a better game in a position he does not play, than the guy having a stinker in the position he wants to play, is not going to do his confidence any favors.
Then despite being better than Norwood in that game, he's left to watch Norwood and the team go 2-0 down, game over, and then he's finally allowed to play 45 minute, almost like some kind of punishment.

"Slow", "Unfit", "Lightweight" etc etc.

Believe it or not, 75%+ of all foreign signings look like that stepping into this league.
Destroying his confidence is not going to make him perform any better.

Your defence of him is admirable. The whole team have been shocking since we come back but they have plenty of good performances behind them and have a lot of credit in the bank.

I knew they'd be excuses tonight- hard for him to come into the game - chasing the game. I called it with my mate. I said get ready for the excuses if he does nothing again.

He came on in this position that loads are saying is his natural position and saw no different to when he has played in the other role. Two 5 yard passes is not cutting it. Did not engage, did not impose himself or get on the ball. I watched him carefully and he was hiding too - did not even come off square.

There were no positives out of tonight at all from the whole team. Things are a lot deeper than Berge but he was not showing anything before the lockdown.

I hoped 2nd half he would come on and show something in 'his' position and we would have something out of a sorry night. Anything. He did nothing. Again. The excuses for him are running out for me. In terms of destroying his confidence; he has to take some responsibility and man up a bit. If he cant get involved in games or show some presence then he is not going to be in the Premier League very long. Norwood has been abysmal since the restart but I'd still pick him ahead of Berge. That is how little he has done to warrant a place.

I come he comes good but even Lundstram or Coutts in the early says showed some flashes amongst poor performances. This lad has shown nothing to me. It's not scapegoating. It's just seeing what I see with my own eyes.

 

[10-0 win]

like Fabinho at liverpool, took him a year to adapt

 

[Ginger Gnome]

He was crap at Newcastle, others being more crap doesn't mean he didn't deserve to be brought off as every hint of a positive move seemed to break down as soon as it got to him.

Today, the game mostly bypassed him, he didn't create anything, didn't really protect anything, just stood around while Man U passed it around him, same as everyone else on the pitch in the second half.

Giving him a start in that position will give a much fairer impression of what he can really offer, bringing him on when we're losing or playing him out of position then bringing him off aren't going to really achieve anything.

On the bright side, Basham was a lightweight central midfielder who let the game pass him by in League 1, and he turned out alright once he found a role (or two) that suited him.

 

[CentralQuay]

It's your claim, it's up to you to prove it, not me to prove my doubts. Away you go....

Leicester city foreign signings since promotion.

Andrej Kramaric, Estaban Cambiasso, Shinki Okazaki, N'golo Kante, Gokhan Inler, Yohan Benalouane, Daniel Amartey, Christian Fuchs, Islam Slimani, Ahmed Musa, Wilfried Ndidi, Nampalys Mendy, Bartosz Kaputska, Ron-Robert Zieler, Molla Wague, Luis Hernandez, Adrien Silva, Vicente Iborra, Aleksander Dragovic, Fousseni Diabate, Ricardo Pereira, Caglar Soyuncu, Filip Benkovic, Rachid Gezzal, Youri Tielemans, Dennis Praet.

Only 4 of 26 hit the ground running and didn't need a minimum, of 6 months to adapt.

(Kante, Cambiasso, Fuchs, Tielemans).

16 of the 26 never came close to making it.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Leicester city foreign signings since promotion.

Andrej Kramaric, Estaban Cambiasso, Shinki Okazaki, N'golo Kante, Gokhan Inler, Yohan Benalouane, Daniel Amartey, Christian Fuchs, Islam Slimani, Ahmed Musa, Wilfried Ndidi, Nampalys Mendy, Bartosz Kaputska, Ron-Robert Zieler, Molla Wague, Luis Hernandez, Adrien Silva, Vicente Iborra, Aleksander Dragovic, Fousseni Diabate, Ricardo Pereira, Caglar Soyuncu, Filip Benkovic, Rachid Gezzal, Youri Tielemans, Dennis Praet.

Only 4 of 26 hit the ground running and didn't need a minimum, of 6 months to adapt.

(Kante, Cambiasso, Fuchs, Tielemans).

16 of the 26 never came close to making it.

I don't follow Leicester so you'll have to enlighten me - did those 22 who took more than 6 months to adapt get a first team starting place almost every match or did they do their "adapting" off field, or coming off the subs bench for 10 minutes at a time? A better representation would be how many PL minutes a foreign player takes to adapt, because if a player plays a couple of games over a 6 month period and then has adapted by the time he plays his third game, he hasn't actually needed 6 months.
And your statistic of 60% not making it at all doesn't bode well for Berge. If your statistic includes those who weren't good enough, then that's a fairly good reason to assume Berge isn't up to it.

But other than Leicester, most of the PL is made up of foreign players. If 75% of them looked shite for 6 months - whilst playing in the first team - then the PL would be a dogs dinner and no one would watch it.
Berge has looked a passenger in every match and a good PL team can't afford passengers, never mind one that needs every player to be firing on all cylinders every match.
I really hope he comes good, because we desperately need to take control of the midfield, but we can't carry him for half a season or more.

 

[Deadbat]

I don't follow Leicester so you'll have to enlighten me - did those 22 who took more than 6 months to adapt get a first team starting place almost every match or did they do their "adapting" off field, or coming off the subs bench for 10 minutes at a time? A better representation would be how many PL minutes a foreign player takes to adapt, because if a player plays a couple of games over a 6 month period and then has adapted by the time he plays his third game, he hasn't actually needed 6 months.
And your statistic of 60% not making it at all doesn't bode well for Berge. If your statistic includes those who weren't good enough, then that's a fairly good reason to assume Berge isn't up to it.

But other than Leicester, most of the PL is made up of foreign players. If 75% of them looked shite for 6 months - whilst playing in the first team - then the PL would be a dogs dinner and no one would watch it.
Berge has looked a passenger in every match and a good PL team can't afford passengers, never mind one that needs every player to be firing on all cylinders every match.
I really hope he comes good, because we desperately need to take control of the midfield, but we can't carry him for half a season or more.

Spot on.

 

[Stretch]

He wasn't ready for the PL when he came to us, he had half a dozen games to get up to speed, which he had barely done, and then lockdown came.

When you consider that the likes of Fleck, Stevens and Norwood (who had looked as good as most PL players in their respective positions) now look lost at sea, I find it hard to understand how a young and relatively inexperienced player is getting it in the neck so badly..?

And for those who bang on about the pricetag, well had we spent less on a player, he would probably be fairing even worse under the current circumstances.

 

[FriethBlade]

Stretch...its partly because he doesn't look interested. I accept that may be his style but there's no urgency about him, so far he doesn't look to have the desire you want from a holding midfielder. I haven't seen one crunching challenge and he seems to be between players the whole time with the ball passed around him and the game passing him by.



Plenty of time for him.to come good but anyone who thinks he's made the start youd hope to see from a 23m signing is deluding themselves. All of us, including Wilder, would have expected just a tiny bit more from him.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Your defence of him is admirable. The whole team have been shocking since we come back but they have plenty of good performances behind them and have a lot of credit in the bank.

I knew they'd be excuses tonight- hard for him to come into the game - chasing the game. I called it with my mate. I said get ready for the excuses if he does nothing again.

He came on in this position that loads are saying is his natural position and saw no different to when he has played in the other role. Two 5 yard passes is not cutting it. Did not engage, did not impose himself or get on the ball. I watched him carefully and he was hiding too - did not even come off square.

There were no positives out of tonight at all from the whole team. Things are a lot deeper than Berge but he was not showing anything before the lockdown.

I hoped 2nd half he would come on and show something in 'his' position and we would have something out of a sorry night. Anything. He did nothing. Again. The excuses for him are running out for me. In terms of destroying his confidence; he has to take some responsibility and man up a bit. If he cant get involved in games or show some presence then he is not going to be in the Premier League very long. Norwood has been abysmal since the restart but I'd still pick him ahead of Berge. That is how little he has done to warrant a place.

I come he comes good but even Lundstram or Coutts in the early says showed some flashes amongst poor performances. This lad has shown nothing to me. It's not scapegoating. It's just seeing what I see with my own eyes.

The main excuse is that he came on in a team playing shit, which is fair. While we are playing woeful is not the time to judge a young, new signing (the average performances he put in before the lockdown are fair game though as we were playing well).

 

[Stretch]

Stretch...its partly because he doesn't look interested. I accept that may be his style but there's no urgency about him, so far he doesn't look to have the desire you want from a holding midfielder. I haven't seen one crunching challenge and he seems to be between players the whole time with the ball passed around him and the game passing him by.



Plenty of time for him.to come good but anyone who thinks he's made the start youd hope to see from a 23m signing is deluding themselves. All of us, including Wilder, would have expected just a tiny bit more from him.

I think it's a combination of a few things, certainly he looks behind the pace of the game, but he may also be struggling to understand or maybe adapt to his role.

First he was in for Lunny, alongside Fleck, so probably expected to spray the ball around and go on the occasional lungbusting run.

Then he plays alongside Lunny, so maybe expected to do the box to box / jack of all trades role that Fleck does so brilliantly.

Now we have seen him sat in Norwoods position.

He hasn't looked quite at home doing either yet, so maybe the question is do we just accept that he needs more time to adapt, or will changes be made to build the midfield around him?

In some ways, Lunny buggering off might make the job easier as it will require us to adapt how we play around Berge's game although I accept that as things stand, Lunny is far superior at what he does.

 

[CentralQuay]

I don't follow Leicester so you'll have to enlighten me - did those 22 who took more than 6 months to adapt get a first team starting place almost every match or did they do their "adapting" off field, or coming off the subs bench for 10 minutes at a time? A better representation would be how many PL minutes a foreign player takes to adapt, because if a player plays a couple of games over a 6 month period and then has adapted by the time he plays his third game, he hasn't actually needed 6 months.
And your statistic of 60% not making it at all doesn't bode well for Berge. If your statistic includes those who weren't good enough, then that's a fairly good reason to assume Berge isn't up to it.

But other than Leicester, most of the PL is made up of foreign players. If 75% of them looked shite for 6 months - whilst playing in the first team - then the PL would be a dogs dinner and no one would watch it.
Berge has looked a passenger in every match and a good PL team can't afford passengers, never mind one that needs every player to be firing on all cylinders every match.
I really hope he comes good, because we desperately need to take control of the midfield, but we can't carry him for half a season or more.

Teams don't replace their entire squads over the summer and january windows, so that does not really add up.


Take that Manchester United side who started last night.
De Gea, Lindelof, Pogba, Bruno Fernandes and Martial were the 5 players they signed from abroad.
Only Fernandes has hit the ground running, Martial was ok when he first joined but not at the level Manchester United want him (20 goals a season).
De Gea/Lindelof/Pogba were all regularly written off many times during their first season.

Berge has played in 7 Premier League games so far.
The 3 games since the lockdown he's played no worse than Norwood/Fleck, so there's an argument to be made he's playing at the level of Sheffield United already.

The idea that you seriously believe Sheffield United can 'control the midfield' with 1 £20 million pound player and Fleck/Norwood/Lundstram is wildly optimistic.
That isn't some 'dig', Wilder is the one who is telling me he doesn't believe he can control the midfield by his team selections. 532, playing more defenders and strikers than almost every team in the league, he's given up the midfield battle.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Your defence of him is admirable. The whole team have been shocking since we come back but they have plenty of good performances behind them and have a lot of credit in the bank.

I knew they'd be excuses tonight- hard for him to come into the game - chasing the game. I called it with my mate. I said get ready for the excuses if he does nothing again.

He came on in this position that loads are saying is his natural position and saw no different to when he has played in the other role. Two 5 yard passes is not cutting it. Did not engage, did not impose himself or get on the ball. I watched him carefully and he was hiding too - did not even come off square.

There were no positives out of tonight at all from the whole team. Things are a lot deeper than Berge but he was not showing anything before the lockdown.

I hoped 2nd half he would come on and show something in 'his' position and we would have something out of a sorry night. Anything. He did nothing. Again. The excuses for him are running out for me. In terms of destroying his confidence; he has to take some responsibility and man up a bit. If he cant get involved in games or show some presence then he is not going to be in the Premier League very long. Norwood has been abysmal since the restart but I'd still pick him ahead of Berge. That is how little he has done to warrant a place.

I come he comes good but even Lundstram or Coutts in the early says showed some flashes amongst poor performances. This lad has shown nothing to me. It's not scapegoating. It's just seeing what I see with my own eyes.

Think you're being a bit harsh. I think his confidence has taken a knock and he's trying to gradually improve it by avoiding mistakes. I understand this is underwhelming as it makes his passing safe/low risk/short, but that wouldn't be so bad if they were the start of decent attacking moves. When you say "two 5 yard passes" you're probably trying to emphasise a point, but it is not accurate and it's difficult to know if you're being objective when you exaggerate. For the record he played 14 passes, 13 of which to a teammate. Not nearly enough, but on par with his teammates.

He made a couple of interceptions during a half where we prioritised defending with our wing backs playing like full backs, meaning we struggled to get close enough to make tackles in midfield. This was a collective thing on the day, we just couldn't raise our game enough to deal with them. When he fouled Fernandes I thought it was something we should have done a bit more. I wondered why he didn't get involved in one of our attacks, then realised we only had Jags back, so he was right to hold back.


His start here hasn't been what we hoped for, but we don't have to draw conclusions at this stage. I do not know if he'll ever adapt to this level or our style, but I'm not making a decision on that based on these first few games.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Teams don't replace their entire squads over the summer and january windows, so that does not really add up.


Take that Manchester United side who started last night.
De Gea, Lindelof, Pogba, Bruno Fernandes and Martial were the 5 players they signed from abroad.
Only Fernandes has hit the ground running, Martial was ok when he first joined but not at the level Manchester United want him (20 goals a season).
De Gea/Lindelof/Pogba were all regularly written off many times during their first season.

Berge has played in 7 Premier League games so far.
The 3 games since the lockdown he's played no worse than Norwood/Fleck, so there's an argument to be made he's playing at the level of Sheffield United already.

The idea that you seriously believe Sheffield United can 'control the midfield' with 1 £20 million pound player and Fleck/Norwood/Lundstram is wildly optimistic.
That isn't some 'dig', Wilder is the one who is telling me he doesn't believe he can control the midfield by his team selections. 532, playing more defenders and strikers than almost every team in the league, he's given up the midfield battle.

It does add up, because if three quarters of all the new foreign signings were running round being completely useless for six months, it would be obvious that foreign signings are a problem. Teams just don't have these players dawdling around the pitch.
The difference is other teams who buy foreign players who need time don't play them in key roles as a first-on-the-team-sheet player. They have enough to rotate, bring them on when it's sensible and leave them off when it's sensible. And as you say, many don't make it and are eventually shipped out. Clearly that's a problem for us with our limited funds and not having had enough time in the Prem to build a PL squad. But that doesn't mean we can carry a passenger and get away with it.
Your 75% statistic appears to have meant all signings, even ones that don't get in to the team, in which case it's probably applicable to all players, foreign or not. It's hard to break in to a PL side so it's no surprise when somebody is loaned out or shipped out because they're not good enough, but we are playing our struggling player as a first team regular in a role that we depend on to make our system work.
It's no excuse that others aren't performing either. And whatever WIlder has said, if we can't play through the midfield and have the freedom to play through balls for at least periods in the match, we won't win a game. Without the midfield there is no service to the strikers and the defence will be pinned back in their own third. As happened yesterday. Our system can't move the ball through from back to front without a midfield and we can't use the midfield as a practice area for trainees.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

It looks as though Wilder has been breaking him in gently, by instructing him to mark empty space rather than players, not put any challenges in and trot around slowly without purpose when not in possession. When in possession he must have been briefed to make short, easy passes sideways or backwards.

And obviously not to hurt himself by competing in the air, hence being out-headed by Grealish amongst others.

 

[CentralQuay]

It does add up, because if three quarters of all the new foreign signings were running round being completely useless for six months, it would be obvious that foreign signings are a problem. Teams just don't have these players dawdling around the pitch.
The difference is other teams who buy foreign players who need time don't play them in key roles as a first-on-the-team-sheet player. They have enough to rotate, bring them on when it's sensible and leave them off when it's sensible. And as you say, many don't make it and are eventually shipped out. Clearly that's a problem for us with our limited funds and not having had enough time in the Prem to build a PL squad. But that doesn't mean we can carry a passenger and get away with it.
Your 75% statistic appears to have meant all signings, even ones that don't get in to the team, in which case it's probably applicable to all players, foreign or not. It's hard to break in to a PL side so it's no surprise when somebody is loaned out or shipped out because they're not good enough, but we are playing our struggling player as a first team regular in a role that we depend on to make our system work.
It's no excuse that others aren't performing either. And whatever WIlder has said, if we can't play through the midfield and have the freedom to play through balls for at least periods in the match, we won't win a game. Without the midfield there is no service to the strikers and the defence will be pinned back in their own third. As happened yesterday. Our system can't move the ball through from back to front without a midfield and we can't use the midfield as a practice area for trainees.

De Gea, Lindelof, Pogba and Martial were all put straight into the first team.

De Gea eventually hit the heights of expectation, although is having a dip now.
Lindelof, Martial and Pogba have received criticism ever since their arrival and the jury is still out.

 

[Bladesman]

New TV show

Breaking Berge

 

[Hamburg Blade]

De Gea, Lindelof, Pogba and Martial were all put straight into the first team.

De Gea eventually hit the heights of expectation, although is having a dip now.
Lindelof, Martial and Pogba have received criticism ever since their arrival and the jury is still out.

De Gea is a goalkeeper which is comparing apples with pears. There's no way he was anonymous as a goalkeeper in his first season.
Pogba spent his initial time in youth teams and reserve teams, which is my point entirely.
According to Wikipedia, Martial scored 17 goals in his first season and won 'PFA Fan's Player of the Month' in his first month. How is that needing time to bed in?
Again from Wiki, Lindelof didn't get his debut for 2 months after joining and didn't play every game in his first season.

If you want to believe that most foreign signings spend half a season as a first team regular doing sod all on the pitch, fine, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think he should be playing as long as he isn't contributing. Whether he'll come good for us later or not is a different issue, at the moment he's a passenger and we need better in that position.

 

[Bladezz]

We live in a world where everyone looks for excuses.

Maybe he’s just not that good.

 

[Wards]

Think you're being a bit harsh. I think his confidence has taken a knock and he's trying to gradually improve it by avoiding mistakes. I understand this is underwhelming as it makes his passing safe/low risk/short, but that wouldn't be so bad if they were the start of decent attacking moves. When you say "two 5 yard passes" you're probably trying to emphasise a point, but it is not accurate and it's difficult to know if you're being objective when you exaggerate. For the record he played 14 passes, 13 of which to a teammate. Not nearly enough, but on par with his teammates.

He made a couple of interceptions during a half where we prioritised defending with our wing backs playing like full backs, meaning we struggled to get close enough to make tackles in midfield. This was a collective thing on the day, we just couldn't raise our game enough to deal with them. When he fouled Fernandes I thought it was something we should have done a bit more. I wondered why he didn't get involved in one of our attacks, then realised we only had Jags back, so he was right to hold back.


His start here hasn't been what we hoped for, but we don't have to draw conclusions at this stage. I do not know if he'll ever adapt to this level or our style, but I'm not making a decision on that based on these first few games.

Once again a voice of reason Bergen Blade amongst a sea of hyperbole that’s doing the rounds a lately

 

[Revolution]

Leicester city foreign signings since promotion.

Andrej Kramaric, Estaban Cambiasso, Shinki Okazaki, N'golo Kante, Gokhan Inler, Yohan Benalouane, Daniel Amartey, Christian Fuchs, Islam Slimani, Ahmed Musa, Wilfried Ndidi, Nampalys Mendy, Bartosz Kaputska, Ron-Robert Zieler, Molla Wague, Luis Hernandez, Adrien Silva, Vicente Iborra, Aleksander Dragovic, Fousseni Diabate, Ricardo Pereira, Caglar Soyuncu, Filip Benkovic, Rachid Gezzal, Youri Tielemans, Dennis Praet.

Only 4 of 26 hit the ground running and didn't need a minimum, of 6 months to adapt.

(Kante, Cambiasso, Fuchs, Tielemans).

16 of the 26 never came close to making it.

The most telling comment in that post is the final one.

 

[BushBlade]

We live in a world where everyone looks for excuses.

Maybe he’s just not that good.

Maybe he isn’t. Or maybe he needs time to adapt. Neither option is outlandish, it could be either but right now we don’t know. What we do know is that he needs to improve. Whether he does or not is just guesswork. We just have to trust Wilder to get it right in the long term. I think he’s earned that.

 

[Ricky]

Leicester city foreign signings since promotion.

Andrej Kramaric, Estaban Cambiasso, Shinki Okazaki, N'golo Kante, Gokhan Inler, Yohan Benalouane, Daniel Amartey, Christian Fuchs, Islam Slimani, Ahmed Musa, Wilfried Ndidi, Nampalys Mendy, Bartosz Kaputska, Ron-Robert Zieler, Molla Wague, Luis Hernandez, Adrien Silva, Vicente Iborra, Aleksander Dragovic, Fousseni Diabate, Ricardo Pereira, Caglar Soyuncu, Filip Benkovic, Rachid Gezzal, Youri Tielemans, Dennis Praet.

Only 4 of 26 hit the ground running and didn't need a minimum, of 6 months to adapt.

(Kante, Cambiasso, Fuchs, Tielemans).

16 of the 26 never came close to making it.

What's happening with Tielemans, btw?

Seems to have gone quiet.

 

[Brownieblade]

Your defence of him is admirable. The whole team have been shocking since we come back but they have plenty of good performances behind them and have a lot of credit in the bank.

I knew they'd be excuses tonight- hard for him to come into the game - chasing the game. I called it with my mate. I said get ready for the excuses if he does nothing again.

He came on in this position that loads are saying is his natural position and saw no different to when he has played in the other role. Two 5 yard passes is not cutting it. Did not engage, did not impose himself or get on the ball. I watched him carefully and he was hiding too - did not even come off square.

There were no positives out of tonight at all from the whole team. Things are a lot deeper than Berge but he was not showing anything before the lockdown.

I hoped 2nd half he would come on and show something in 'his' position and we would have something out of a sorry night. Anything. He did nothing. Again. The excuses for him are running out for me. In terms of destroying his confidence; he has to take some responsibility and man up a bit. If he cant get involved in games or show some presence then he is not going to be in the Premier League very long. Norwood has been abysmal since the restart but I'd still pick him ahead of Berge. That is how little he has done to warrant a place.

I come he comes good but even Lundstram or Coutts in the early says showed some flashes amongst poor performances. This lad has shown nothing to me. It's not scapegoating. It's just seeing what I see with my own eyes.

Have to disagree with you mate, I saw a lad still adapting but who was getting the ball and moving it around, OK might only be short stuff right now but he is playing in a team that is struggling and he is doing the right thing by starting from the basics of his natural game

As for 2nd half against Man U he was up against a far better midfield who were full on confidence , I personally don’t get what he could have done last night to impose himself, Norwood and Fleck playing at their best wouldn’t have managed to impose themselves either IMO

 

[CentralQuay]

What's happening with Tielemans, btw?

Seems to have gone quiet.

That's another side to young players, consistency, or lack of it.
Last season he was very very good, this season, not bad, just average.

The difference with Berge I guess for Blades fans is that he's not shown, yet, some kind of quality at this level for the fans to think he's worth sticking by.