Birmingham points deduction

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Bill Johnson said:
Just seen that a few guys who streamed football have been sent to prison for longer than rapists. Glad we live in a reasonable society.
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Agree about the sentiment. They did make £5 million and also I doubt they paid any tax etc....Only bankers and government are allowed to swindle that much and get a promotion rather than a prison sentence.
 

There should be a scale so teams know what punishment they will get
Say a team loses 39 million 5 points
Then say 50+ 7 points
Then say 60 + 9 points

Etc...

Otherwise how can you say what points deduction there should be it’s asking how longs a piece of string
 
Bill Johnson said:
Just seen that a few guys who streamed football have been sent to prison for longer than rapists. Glad we live in a reasonable society.
Click to expand...
They didn’t just stream a few matches online they sold illegal streams to pubs for years making millions.
 
Dear Agana Aunt,

Please don't sanction a points deduction for our beloved neighbours until the end of the season.
They are currently under the (MASSIVE) delusion that they may enter the play offs, and in order to do so they will need to take points off both Norwich and Leeds.

This would be a great favour to ourselves.

You have always treated us with the utmost impartiality in the past, so please continue to do so.


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The punishment should be a set formula that any owner will know prior to them breaking the rule. Same for everyone, and not requiring the expensive hearings, more a straightforward “you cheated, take the punishment”

So, without trying to be clever teams play for points...so it has to be a point penalty for a start.
Now, 12 points seems to be the figure handed about and generally thought harsh. Well I have a different solution which is very simple.
A time the point found guilty....ie the posting of the year figures which highlight the breach of rules, they look at the season to that point and take the number of wins so far, and remove the value of half of the wins they have had up to that point.
So say they’ve had 10 wins, they lose15 points. May seem harsh, but they are effectively being punished for having players they can’t affford, and that lead to a breach of FFP. So it seems only fair they aren’t allowed all of the points gained winning by cheating.
There’s more.....that side must immediately select a match squad to play the remainder of the season which complies with the rules. So they will have to drop several high earners and replace with cheaper players that in theory would be affordable. Wouldn’t take too long to figure out, might need an accountant sat with the manager picking the matchday squad, but that’s life.

So unless the cheating club has a very strong youth set up, they will likely be relegated anyway.

Much fairer.
 
As there is no punishment, we should just let clubs spend whatever they want. Offer no protection and watch them sink into oblivion.
I'm getting sick of all this "i feel sorry for the fans bolox"

It's only because of the fans and their constant whining for success, then slagging off any club who suffers as a result of their fiscal normality that these scenarios exist in the first place.

Let the fuckers spend ridiculously, let them belittle those that don't, then offer them fuck all help and support when they go bust
 
Topplayersleave said:
As there is no punishment, we should just let clubs spend whatever they want. Offer no protection and watch them sink into oblivion.
I'm getting sick of all this "i feel sorry for the fans bolox"

It's only because of the fans and their constant whining for success, then slagging off any club who suffers as a result of their fiscal normality that these scenarios exist in the first place.

Let the fuckers spend ridiculously, let them belittle those that don't, then offer them fuck all help and support when they go bust
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It worked for the likes of Wolves and Bournemouth didn't it!?
 
Bill Johnson said:
Just seen that a few guys who streamed football have been sent to prison for longer than rapists. Glad we live in a reasonable society.
Click to expand...

Ah, good old British 'justice'. On Thursday I watched 'Fraud: How they steal your bank account' on ITV. One story was a mob from Ghana which was seizing bank cards in the post (bent post office staff) and swanning round London on blatant spending sprees. In one place, they bought seven smartscreen TVs and tried to stuff them in the back of their Mercedes; the car park CCTV caught them ramming the boxes in with their boots. They were buying masses of Gucci trainers etc. etc. Incredibly, the fraud squad caught them. Apart from one, they all got suspended sentences (like they'll be around to 'serve' it...)

But it's not as if Birmingham don't have 'form'. In 2014, then-owner Carson Yeung was jailed in Hong Kong for laundering HK$720 million (£55.4m) through his bank accounts between 2001 and 2007. He got 6 years but faces further charges. Brum's current 'owners' are 'Trillion Trophy Asia' :rolleyes:, their main sponsor is 888sport (an online gambling racket) and a major sponsor is No.5 Chambers a large firm of (entirely reputable, I'm sure) barristers.

FallowfieldBlade said:
There should be a scale so teams know what punishment they will get
Say a team loses 39 million 5 points
Then say 50+ 7 points
Then say 60 + 9 points

Etc...

Otherwise how can you say what points deduction there should be it’s asking how longs a piece of string
Click to expand...

And you think these bent 'owners' wouldn't continue to run rings round the hapless idiots at EFL?

'How much have you lost, Mr. C?'

'Exactly £38m. The other millions you see on our (delayed) accounts went into decorating the stadium with my name (sponsorship), and made-up companies.'

'Move along. Nothing to see here.'
 
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So what's happening with the other clubs?
Wolves are safe they went up and may agree to pay a fine but derby and Wednesday are they even under investigation ?

Birmingham have known they were facing a punishment all season ,ridiculous it's took this long
 
Hamburg Blade said:
This is what I posted on Monday on the other thread:

I'm sorry, but as tough as this sounds, a points reduction makes absolutely no sense at all. It simply isn't logical. If it is assumed that the overspending gives them an advantage on the pitch - which is the reasoning behind FFP - then a points reduction which does not relegate them can be said to have been negated by the overspending. In other words, there is no punishment. The only logical punishment, if they are really serious about this, is to wait until the final table and if Birmingham are in the top six, disqualify them from promotion or the play offs, and if they aren't in the top six, automatically relegate them.

And now we can see how true it is. They are very, very unlikely to get relegated - 5 points off and actually in a false position - and they were very, very unlikely to get in the play offs. So they've been given absolutely no punishment whatsoever.
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The had a chance of a play off spot . That's now gone. Think it's done it's job
 
Fanny magnet said:
So what's happening with the other clubs?
Wolves are safe they went up and may agree to pay a fine but derby and Wednesday are they even under investigation ?
Click to expand...

See Post #64. At last the days of 'crime may not pay' might be coming to an end.

'Clubs chasing promotion also understand that they will not be protected should they make it to the Premier League. A points deduction could be applied in the top flight next season. The cut off for sanctions this season is March 28.' Link
 
blade too long said:
Wednesday are being very devious . They are already a month late posting their accounts . I wonder why?
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My theory is that they’re delaying until a season ticket deadline has passed. They’ve extended it once due to, and I quote, ‘extreme queuing’ (eh??). Hide the evidence, get the fans’ money in and then hit them with it. If it was us, I’d be holding back from parting with my cash.
 

I think any points deduction should start from the beginning of the next season, so you start the season on -12
I think this happened to Rotherham a few years
Less disruption then on the current season and chaos
 
Just read the article in the mail ( can't link ) who do we reckon the irate chairman is who grasses the pigs ,derby and villa up ?
 
Fanny magnet said:
Just read the article in the mail ( can't link ) who do we reckon the irate chairman is who grasses the pigs ,derby and villa up ?
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The chairmen voted for FFP themselves so it was a more level playing field so its not "grassing anyone up " its waving an imaginary yellow card. Its supposed to be a sport.
 
blade too long said:
The chairmen voted for FFP themselves so it was a more level playing field so its not "grassing anyone up " its waving an imaginary yellow card. Its supposed to be a sport.
Click to expand...

The FFP expert on Radio Sheffield the other day explained that the Chairman voted in FFP
Because they thought it would strengthen their bargaining powers when negotiating player contracts with player agents, helping to keep player salaries down.

The plan as when an agent is wanting £30K a week for their player.
The Chairman can say “we’d like to pay your player £30K but FFP means we can only offer £20K, so that’s our final offer”.
 
Having read the aforementioned article. It seems to me that the piggies are being very devious in there efforts to avoid FFP rules?.
I think they’ll worm their way out of it eventually?. Just hope I’m wrong?. UTB
 
Grizzly blade said:
The punishment should be a set formula that any owner will know prior to them breaking the rule. Same for everyone, and not requiring the expensive hearings, more a straightforward “you cheated, take the punishment”

So, without trying to be clever teams play for points...so it has to be a point penalty for a start.
Now, 12 points seems to be the figure handed about and generally thought harsh. Well I have a different solution which is very simple.
A time the point found guilty....ie the posting of the year figures which highlight the breach of rules, they look at the season to that point and take the number of wins so far, and remove the value of half of the wins they have had up to that point.
So say they’ve had 10 wins, they lose15 points. May seem harsh, but they are effectively being punished for having players they can’t affford, and that lead to a breach of FFP. So it seems only fair they aren’t allowed all of the points gained winning by cheating.
There’s more.....that side must immediately select a match squad to play the remainder of the season which complies with the rules. So they will have to drop several high earners and replace with cheaper players that in theory would be affordable. Wouldn’t take too long to figure out, might need an accountant sat with the manager picking the matchday squad, but that’s life.

So unless the cheating club has a very strong youth set up, they will likely be relegated anyway.

Much fairer.
Click to expand...
Not sure if it has been mentioned elsewhere but whilst generally agreeing with your point as well as punishing the offending club there is also the impact on the victims to consider. For example there is a reasonable argument that some clubs who stay within their means would be much better off if they weren’t playing against cheats. Whilst the Millers were unlucky not to get six points off the S6 Galacticos there is a good argument to say that they definitely would have if Wendy were not stuffed full of £40k a week players. (Not sure how they did against Brum but same argument). So whilst offenders should absolutely not be allowed in the play offs/promotion, the impact of their offending may still have had negative repercussions on other clubs.

I’ll be honest in that I don’t know too much granular detail about Ipswich but I understand that they genuinely tried to sort out their finances by recruiting lower league, presumably lower wage players. In trying to do the right thing they’ve shot themselves in the foot when you’ve got Derby, who MUST be in breach, can buy their best player of the previous season. In trying to comply Ipswich have given themselves a bigger point deduction than Brum got.
 
grafikhaus said:
See Post #64. At last the days of 'crime may not pay' might be coming to an end.

'Clubs chasing promotion also understand that they will not be protected should they make it to the Premier League. A points deduction could be applied in the top flight next season. The cut off for sanctions this season is March 28.' Link
Click to expand...
The points deduction should stop them even going up otherwise it’s useless even going up and having a 50 point fine nets you all the dosh and parachute payments and gives you a better foothold to try and get promoted again
 
PaulHalfway said:
I think any points deduction should start from the beginning of the next season, so you start the season on -12
I think this happened to Rotherham a few years
Less disruption then on the current season and chaos
Click to expand...
But no use if the club goes up or escapes relegation by cheating
 

Sheffsteel said:
The FFP expert on Radio Sheffield the other day explained that the Chairman voted in FFP
Because they thought it would strengthen their bargaining powers when negotiating player contracts with player agents, helping to keep player salaries down.

The plan as when an agent is wanting £30K a week for their player.
The Chairman can say “we’d like to pay your player £30K but FFP means we can only offer £20K, so that’s our final offer”.
Click to expand...
When was this? I thought FFP was imposed by UEFA? Which clubs got to vote on it?
 
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