Big Sam's 'Tevez' perspective

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WalthamstowBlade said:
Id add that Robin Wales, the Newham Council chief who approved this, supports...West Ham.
This was always going to happen. Olympic venues are just that, like the ones in Athens, or Barcelona, or Montreal. They sit around empty embarrassing the politicians who spent your money on them. So they spend more of your money moving people in to save their blushes.
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Not so much in Athens...

the-stands-are-falling-apart.jpg

Rest of the photos here: http://www.businessinsider.com/2004-athens-olympics-venues-abandoned-today-photos-2012-8?op=1
 

WalthamstowBlade said:
Id add that Robin Wales, the Newham Council chief who approved this, supports...West Ham.

This was always going to happen. Olympic venues are just that, like the ones in Athens, or Barcelona, or Montreal. They sit around empty embarrassing the politicians who spent your money on them. So they spend more of your money moving people in to save their blushes.
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It's not just Olympic venues. How much money has the 1991 World Student Games cost (and continues to cost) the council tax payers of Sheffield? Obviously the SCC solution to every one of their pet projects is to knock it down while they are still paying for it.
 
LSF said:
Came across an old photo I'd not seen for years so I thought I'd retire Michael for a while. Darth and Sheffielder will be pleased :)
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Hey mate that made me chuckle ...... like Ive said before, great guy but no thanks in our midfield, although apparently he put in a decent shift last night. ( credit where its due )
UTB & FTP
 
bladeinbolton said:
It's not just Olympic venues. How much money has the 1991 World Student Games cost (and continues to cost) the council tax payers of Sheffield? Obviously the SCC solution to every one of their pet projects is to knock it down while they are still paying for it.
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Don Valley was costing money what would you have done thrown more taxpayers money at it? Please tell me apart from Don Valley which other venue in Sheffield newly built or extended for the WSG is not in use any longer?
 
ghandi said:
Don Valley was costing money what would you have done thrown more taxpayers money at it? Please tell me apart from Don Valley which other venue in Sheffield newly built or extended for the WSG is not in use any longer?
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Isn't a more relevant question: 'Did the WSG represent good value for money for Sheffield ratepayers?' I suggest the answer is a resounding 'No!'
 
The Bohemian said:
Isn't a more relevant question: 'Did the WSG represent good value for money for Sheffield ratepayers?' I suggest the answer is a resounding 'No!'
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I think the answer is yes most certainly looked at at from value/benefit point of view rather just initial cost. Ponds Forge host swimming championships National and International which brings money into the city as does the Arena. EIS of sport is located in the city from the facilities that were buillt for the WSG. All the Leisure and Sports centres built or improved for the WSG remain open and are used by Sheffield ratepayers. In fact Don Valley would have paid it's way if the Athletic bodies didn't insist on housing their events in rundown stadiums like Birmingham and Crystal Palace.
The legacy from the WSG would appear to be much greater than many of the Olympics but with it being Sheffield like many other situations no credit will be given.
All major sporting events will cost money but if looked at from purely that perspective there would be no Olympics, Football World Cup etc.
 
ghandi said:
I think the answer is yes most certainly looked at at from value/benefit point of view rather just initial cost. Ponds Forge host swimming championships National and International which brings money into the city as does the Arena. EIS of sport is located in the city from the facilities that were buillt for the WSG. All the Leisure and Sports centres built or improved for the WSG remain open and are used by Sheffield ratepayers. In fact Don Valley would have paid it's way if the Athletic bodies didn't insist on housing their events in rundown stadiums like Birmingham and Crystal Palace.
The legacy from the WSG would appear to be much greater than many of the Olympics but with it being Sheffield like many other situations no credit will be given.
All major sporting events will cost money but if looked at from purely that perspective there would be no Olympics, Football World Cup etc.
Click to expand...

Ponds Forge does host high profile swimming events although any financial benefit of these is dwarfed by the £30m annual interest payments on the original WSG debts which we, the Sheffield rate payers, will be paying for another 10 years at least.

A Sports Hall on the Manor, built for the Games, was demolished years before Don Valley and the EIS - which is a good facility - was not built for the WSG.

The WSG is a non-event for everybody bar the students that participate and their families. The only possible reason I can fathom for 'investing' in such a ludicrous project, was to massage the egos of Council leaders at the time, who should feel embarrassed and ashamed at the financial pain and subsequent decline inflicted on their city.

By the time we've finished paying for it, the Games will have cost Sheffield at least £650m. Imagine what our city centre could look like had it received that level of investment? Instead, outside of a small area around the Peace Gardens, we have a city centre that is more befitting of a developing nation than the fourth largest city in one of the world's wealthiest countries.

Meanwhile we've had to suffer the ignominy of watching Leeds develop a modern, attractive city centre which draws high quality businesses, retailers and out of town visitors in. Perhaps Meadowhall has played its part in the decline of our city centre but had the WSG money been spent more wisely any drain on 'the city' would have been mitigated.

So yes, for our £650m we have got a nice swimming pool and a half decent Arena. Even in today's money you can build a good few swimming pools and warehouses with seats for £650m.

Value for money? No chance!
 
WalthamstowBlade said:
Id add that Robin Wales, the Newham Council chief who approved this, supports...West Ham.

This was always going to happen. Olympic venues are just that, like the ones in Athens, or Barcelona, or Montreal. They sit around empty embarrassing the politicians who spent your money on them. So they spend more of your money moving people in to save their blushes.
Click to expand...

That's absolute incorrect for well-planned Olympics such as the ones we hosted here. Every location has been developed into something even better than during the event. The Village is a vibrant new district on the waterfront and many community centres have sprung up from various event locations. I took my son to a training facility for the ice hockey events this morning. We got a new tune line from downtown to the airport. The Olympics were a great thing for the city and continue to be so.
 
Vancouver said:
That's absolute incorrect for well-planned Olympics such as the ones we hosted here. Every location has been developed into something even better than during the event. The Village is a vibrant new district on the waterfront and many community centres have sprung up from various event locations. I took my son to a training facility for the ice hockey events this morning. We got a new tune line from downtown to the airport. The Olympics were a great thing for the city and continue to be so.
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The Westfield at Stratford is also quite nice, but a collection of shops and restaurants could have been built without spunking all that money on sporting venues which are now sprouting weeds.
 

The Bohemian said:
Ponds Forge does host high profile swimming events although any financial benefit of these is dwarfed by the £30m annual interest payments on the original WSG debts which we, the Sheffield rate payers, will be paying for another 10 years at least.

A Sports Hall on the Manor, built for the Games, was demolished years before Don Valley and the EIS - which is a good facility - was not built for the WSG.

The WSG is a non-event for everybody bar the students that participate and their families. The only possible reason I can fathom for 'investing' in such a ludicrous project, was to massage the egos of Council leaders at the time, who should feel embarrassed and ashamed at the financial pain and subsequent decline inflicted on their city.

By the time we've finished paying for it, the Games will have cost Sheffield at least £650m. Imagine what our city centre could look like had it received that level of investment? Instead, outside of a small area around the Peace Gardens, we have a city centre that is more befitting of a developing nation than the fourth largest city in one of the world's wealthiest countries.

Meanwhile we've had to suffer the ignominy of watching Leeds develop a modern, attractive city centre which draws high quality businesses, retailers and out of town visitors in. Perhaps Meadowhall has played its part in the decline of our city centre but had the WSG money been spent more wisely any drain on 'the city' would have been mitigated.

So yes, for our £650m we have got a nice swimming pool and a half decent Arena. Even in today's money you can build a good few swimming pools and warehouses with seats for £650m.

Value for money? No chance!
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Its a matter of opinion you see the cost as the defining argument whereas I take a more altruistic view of the value and sporting opportunities delivered by the WSG.
 
Firstly I have to come clean, I'm from Doncaster, in that respect an outsider.

I was working on proposals for Bramall Lane back in the mid-nineties and the council were urging us (the design team and SUFC) to look at options for moving the club to Don Valley Stadium. Of course, multi-purpose athletics/football stadia are impractical and the trend is to abandon them for football hence Bayern leave the Olympic Stadium, Ajax likewise, Juventus something similar etc. etc.

But the problem is the councillors didn't know that. Further, Don Valley Stadium was a poor design pretty much aping the style of well known architects but actually (badly) designed by the local authority architects department, pastiche if you will.....

The same naivety was shown when the council decided to host the World Student Games, I really think these people thought it was a much more prestigious games than it is.

THAT SAID,

As an outsider, demolition of Don Valley looked like grandstanding (intended) by a labour council taking a stand (again) against austerity measures of a Tory government. The result, they cut off their noses to spite their faces.....DUMB ASSES.

I would always disbelieve stats emanating from cretin councils and that leads to my more general point.

There is a brain-drain from South Yorkshire (certainly from Donny and seemingly now from Rotherham), principally to London. So don't expect the councillors, police chiefs etc. etc. to be actually competent, of course not they are too thick and uneducated. Don't expect reasoned calm decision making.

Do expect gross mistake-making, Do expect an inability to handle political-correctness and Pakistani rape-gangs, and DO expect building and demolishing athletics venues without even trying to market them properly in the name of economising.

I haven't gone into the accounts but I wouldn't believe what the council say about the cost/benefit analysis of Don Valley Stadium for a moment, I wasn't born yesterday.
 
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ghandi said:
Its a matter of opinion you see the cost as the defining argument whereas I take a more altruistic view of the value and sporting opportunities delivered by the WSG.
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No you don't. Spending other people's money doesn't make you an 'altruist', spending your own money does. And, when you consider that that money is not being spent on nurses or firemen* think how 'altruistic' you feel now.

* Or, indeed, shitty council paper shufflers who turn blind eyes to mass sexual abuse
 
vorpal blade said:
Firstly I have to come clean, I'm from Doncaster, in that respect an outsider.

I was working on proposals for Bramall Lane back in the mid-nineties and the council were urging us (the design team and SUFC) to look at options for moving the club to Don Valley Stadium. Of course, multi-purpose athletics/football stadia are impractical and the trend is to abandon them for football hence Bayern leave the Olympic Stadium, Ajax likewise, Juventus something similar etc. etc.

But the problem is the councillors didn't know that. Further, Don Valley Stadium was a poor design pretty much aping the style of well known architects but actually (badly) designed by the local authority architects department, pastiche if you will.....

The same naivety was shown when the council decided to host the World Student Games, I really think these people thought it was a much more prestigious games than it is.

THAT SAID,

As an outsider, demolition of Don Valley looked like grandstanding (intended) by a labour council taking a stand (again) against austerity measures of a Tory government. The result, they cut off their noses to spite their faces.....DUMB ASSES.

I would always disbelieve stats emanating from cretin councils and that leads to my more general point.

There is a brain-drain from South Yorkshire (certainly from Donny and seemingly now from Rotherham), principally to London. So don't expect the councillors, police chiefs etc. etc. to be actually competent, of course not they are too thick and uneducated. Don't expect reasoned calm decision making.

Do expect gross mistake-making, Do expect an inability to handle political-correctness and Pakistani rape-gangs, and DO expect building and demolishing athletics venues without even trying to market them properly in the name of economising.

I haven't gone into the accounts but I wouldn't believe what the council say about the cost/benefit analysis of Don Valley Stadium for a moment, I wasn't born yesterday.
Click to expand...

Well if the bus stop nonsense at Bents Green is anything to go by then you can see how incompentent the Sheffield City Coucil still are. That complete farce has probably cost local payers about £250,000 sorting a road and bus stop that only needed widening and nothing more in my view.

I was told that the SCC have to find £30,000 to £40,000 a day to cover paying off all their costly mistakes like the Student Games etc?
 
Bladesman said:
Well if the bus stop nonsense at Bents Green is anything to go by then you can see how incompentent the Sheffield City Coucil still are. That complete farce has probably cost local payers about £250,000 sorting a road and bus stop that only needed widening and nothing more in my view.

I was told that the SCC have to find £30,000 to £40,000 a day to cover paying off all their costly mistakes like the Student Games etc?
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What have they done at Bents Green? Narrowed the road I assume?
 
We're so far into this now I've forgotten how we got from Big Sam and Tevez to Sheffield City Council.

By the way, what do you think happened to that Rolf Harris painting which was in Sheaf Valley Baths when they replaced it with Ponds Forge?
 
SellyOakBlade said:
What have they done at Bents Green? Narrowed the road I assume?
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They appeared to widen the road then extended the pavement back out rather a lot just for the bus stops on both sides and further along to create a parking bay thus creating one big bottle neck and one smaller one.

The buses were stopping at both stops at the same time making it even harder for cars to get by and making it harder for people to park at the shops.

Then less than a month later after many locals complained and only then did they realize that they had screwed it right up. I hear it cost £120,000 to create and pretty much the same again fix. It would not surprise me if it cost more than that though.

They were just trying to fix a problem that was never there in the first place in reality.
 
ghandi said:
I think the answer is yes most certainly looked at at from value/benefit point of view rather just initial cost. Ponds Forge host swimming championships National and International which brings money into the city as does the Arena. EIS of sport is located in the city from the facilities that were buillt for the WSG. All the Leisure and Sports centres built or improved for the WSG remain open and are used by Sheffield ratepayers. In fact Don Valley would have paid it's way if the Athletic bodies didn't insist on housing their events in rundown stadiums like Birmingham and Crystal Palace.
The legacy from the WSG would appear to be much greater than many of the Olympics but with it being Sheffield like many other situations no credit will be given.
All major sporting events will cost money but if looked at from purely that perspective there would be no Olympics, Football World Cup etc.
Click to expand...
Of course if the old Sheaf baths had not been jerry built and had been built to a standard length in the first place, SCC wouldn't have had to knock it down and build a new pool. Given the fact that it was built on the cheap, then couldn't SCC just have built a new pool without hosting the WSG (go on, had you heard of it before Sheffield decided to host it? Do you ever hear of it now?)?
 
ghandi said:
Don Valley was costing money what would you have done thrown more taxpayers money at it? Please tell me apart from Don Valley which other venue in Sheffield newly built or extended for the WSG is not in use any longer?
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I wouldn't have built it in the first place. Hosting crocks like the World Student Games is fine when you already have the facilities to hand, built and paid for.
 
Hold on a minute Blade in Bolton. I'm reading an urban myth thing here. Most swimming pools are 25m long, sometimes at a more 'serious' level (universities etc.) they are 33m but world level professional competitions are 50m long.

Now its a long time since I swam at Pond Street (Sheaf Baths) but I would be amazed if it were supposed to be 50m long like Ponds Forge is. (I'll accept my memory isn't perfect if someone would like to contradict me btw).

The 'standard' length isn't 50m. The reason it sounds like an urban myth is because for years there was the rumour (possibly truthful) about the Swimming bath in Leeds being inches short of the 'regulation' 50m.

As for shoddy, well possibly but so was everything built in the early 1970s and I think that the atmosphere in a swimming pool tends to destroy concrete and steel faster than in any other building type.
 
vorpal blade said:
Hold on a minute Blade in Bolton. I'm reading an urban myth thing here. Most swimming pools are 25m long, sometimes at a more 'serious' level (universities etc.) they are 33m but world level professional competitions are 50m long.

Now its a long time since I swam at Pond Street (Sheaf Baths) but I would be amazed if it were supposed to be 50m long like Ponds Forge is. (I'll accept my memory isn't perfect if someone would like to contradict me btw).

The 'standard' length isn't 50m. The reason it sounds like an urban myth is because for years there was the rumour (possibly truthful) about the Swimming bath in Leeds being inches short of the 'regulation' 50m.

As for shoddy, well possibly but so was everything built in the early 1970s and I think that the atmosphere in a swimming pool tends to destroy concrete and steel faster than in any other building type.
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Sheaf valley was 33m
 
ghandi said:
Its a matter of opinion you see the cost as the defining argument whereas I take a more altruistic view of the value and sporting opportunities delivered by the WSG.
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yes it is a matter of opinion and the WSG debacle is what you get when you let thick, stupid people in charge of spending tax payers money.

Need I add such building as the old fire station, now rebuilt a couple of hundred yards away. A building like the old station should have had a life span of 100+ years - it is now a car park It would have never happened with private money. Same as with the World Stupid Games - a waste of public Money - trouble I, it does NOT belong to the pratts who spend it.

Don't set me off with public sector finances!

UTB (just to keep the football link in the post)
 
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