Big Sam's 'Tevez' perspective

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alco

No, it's just an excuse to work up a bit of atmosphere. I don't think the majority of our fans care any more than the majority of yours. Fans love to talk up or simply invent rivalry it's what football is all about.

Without this "thing" it would be a nothing game, where a win would be meaningless and a lose embarrassing but soon forgotten. This gives us a reason to turn up and really get behind the team, that's all.
 

A sane Hammers fan. said:
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the decisions over points deductions and fines at the time, what happened with Tevez is NOT the reason for both clubs current league positions. West Ham have new owners, new manager and one remaining player since then. More importantly they have been relegated since then and managed promotion despite the financial impediment of paying off the fine. No point it keep saying cheating pays, it didn't the Hammers just managed to bounce back from relegation.
As for the Blades? Well they had the opportunity provided by both the parachute payments and the fine money and failed to use it.
I don't know the reason the two teams now find themselves where they now are, but I'm certain as this distance it's nonsense to credit or blame Tevez anymore.
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A sane Hammers fan. said:
For what it's worth I think we avoided a points deduction because the league thought we were already down and it would effectively not have been any punishment. By the time that proved wrong it was to late to change the verdict. I know plenty of Hammers fans who were upset at the £5.5m fine and would have preferred points taken off as looking at the fixtures remaining were convinced relegation was inevitable.
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Most sane observers would acknowledge that if a club survives their first season in The Premiership it gives them a massive opportunity to become established in the top tier.
According to your own post the Premier League only denied us that vital opportunity because they thought that West Ham’s relegation was inevitable.

Sheffield United didn’t want any special favours from the Premier League. All we wanted was for the rules and punishments of the competition to be applied fairly and logically to all teams.
For punishments to not be based on a club’s lowly league position or how long they had managed to delay the ruling for or on how unfair it would seem to one particular club’s fans.

West Ham ultimately managed to survive their first season after “bouncing back” and are probably now settled in for a long and prosperous stay in The Premiership.
They weren’t denied this chance by the lying and cheating of a rival club and the illogical, unfair application of the rules by the powers that be.

The cheated Sheffield United gained a one-off payment of £20M. The cheats West Ham gained untold riches for years and years to come.
Personally, I cannot see how any sane person can say that the respective club’s current league positions weren’t affected by the Tevez affair.
 
Darren said:
I think the relegation was a much bigger deal for us than it would have been for WHU. WHU had spent 12 of the prevous 14 years in the PL and had hence built up some respources to get back in the PL sharpish (as indeed they did when relegated later). It was our first season there for 12 years.

Also the relegation led to the diastrous appointment of Bryan Robson and the Board giving him a ton of money (by SUFC standards) to piss up the wall. Had we stayed up, Warnock would have no doubt got a new contract, he would have got money which he would have spent more wisely than Robson, and we would have been all the stronger in 07-08.

Even if we had been relegated that season, I highly doubt we would be in the 3rd Division now.

So, yes, the Tevez thing was a pivotal moment for us; hence us being bitter and twisted about it :)
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I am not so sure about that considering the money he pissed away getting to the PL.

I am of the opinion Warnock works better with less money.
 
A sane Hammers fan. said:
Zoneman

It's been a good few years but as far as I can recall the argument went like this.....

The kind of third party ownership both Argentines were under never was enforceable under UK law, so West Ham could without any legal comeback just say "we have torn it up, it's finished".

The problem is, as you rightly point out thier agent not West Ham pocketed the majority of both their transfer fees. As far as I know this was done as a good faith gesture, basically because if West Ham or the buying clubs had not then they would have been blacklisted for transfers from places were third party ownership is common and legal, which is most of the footballing world.

Now if you want to call that argument/distinction the biggest load of crap you have ever heard I can't blame you. If however it makes a legal difference......?
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It's got nothing to do with UK law. There is a Premier League rule about third part ownership that was broken. The rule is about there being any such third party contract, not if any third party control is in effect. Another rule about acting to all other clubs and the PL in good faith was broken by direct lying and deception by the WHU board/executives. There is no grey area about what rules may or may not have been broken, two rules were broken (twice each) and that is a fact.

As for Sheffield United, I agree with Darren that it had a major impact on the club and we would most likely not be stuck in the third tier now had we not been relegated in 2007. My opinion is that deliberate cheating by WHU, and the failure of the PL to enforce its own rules properly, has been the cause of a downward spiral that has left us where we are now, with some poor decisions from the board along the way. I have to see Fleetwood Town visit us in the league this season - that might give you an indication of what has happened to us.

It's a long time ago now so I am not as angry as I was at the time, but I can't see any reason that we should forgive. And while I agree with those who point the finger at Scudamore, he wouldn't have had the opportunity to fail so spectacularly in his role if there was no case to deal with in the first place. I will always feel negatively about WHU, but I don't hold the fans responsible and it must be difficult supporting the team when you ought to be so ashamed and embarrassed about what the club has done. My only gripe with WHU fans is with those who have any ill feeling towards us, be it the supporters, board or club as a whole. SUFC, Kevin McCabe and all Blades fans are completely innocent and are the victims of Tevez-gate, so anger from WHU fans directed at us is wholly unjustified.
 
Darren said:
I think the relegation was a much bigger deal for us than it would have been for WHU. WHU had spent 12 of the prevous 14 years in the PL and had hence built up some respources to get back in the PL sharpish (as indeed they did when relegated later). It was our first season there for 12 years.

Also the relegation led to the diastrous appointment of Bryan Robson and the Board giving him a ton of money (by SUFC standards) to piss up the wall. Had we stayed up, Warnock would have no doubt got a new contract, he would have got money which he would have spent more wisely than Robson, and we would have been all the stronger in 07-08.

Even if we had been relegated that season, I highly doubt we would be in the 3rd Division now.

So, yes, the Tevez thing was a pivotal moment for us; hence us being bitter and twisted about it :)
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I think you are right that "the Tevez thing" was a pivotal moment for us and had justice been done I also very much doubt that we would have sunk as low as we now are.

However, although I will admit to being very bitter and twisted about it I do not blame West Ham or the premier league for our current predicament. We certainly had the resources to bounce back. We didn't, and that is down to the dreadful mismanagement of this club since May 2007.
 
Sothall

Maybe it was pivotal to the Blades, I don't know, but I'm as certain as you can be about anything in football that it wasn't to West Ham, had we been deducted points and relegated I can see no reason we would not have bounced back in one or two seasons, as we have before and since and may very possibly do again.

Punk

Totally agree that a minority of Hammers fans blame the wrong people, it's as you say there is no way we will blame our own club, we can argue all we like about the level of the "crime "and the appropriate or not level of the punishment, but West Ham were clearly wrong, whether by deliberate deceit or accident. But as I'm not going to blame my own team I'm blaming you for pointing out the wrong doing. That said some of the holier than thou stuff from some people at the time would have wound up anyone.
 
However enough common sense, I'm off to the game now where I fully intend to join in with the chant "we're all on third party contracts" because it will make me smile.
 
A sane Hammers fan. said:
Sothall

Maybe it was pivotal to the Blades, I don't know, but I'm as certain as you can be about anything in football that it wasn't to West Ham, had we been deducted points and relegated I can see no reason we would not have bounced back in one or two seasons, as we have before and since and may very possibly do again.

Yes, probably true. Would have had no effect on you. Screwed United's prospects for a generation. That makes it so much better.

Many United fans will tell you we don't even want to be in The Premiership now. The so called big prize has been tainted. That's the most damning indictment of Scudamore and his cronies. Not that they care what Sheff Utd think.
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Hi in the pub and already had a few, so my honest and slightly drunk opinion.

Did West Ham do wrong? Yes we did.

Has it benefited West Ham since? I don't believe so.

Did the settlement Sheffield Utd got make up for what happened? Hard to quantify, but you did receive a sizeable financial payout, it is not West Hams fault if you failed to make good use of it.

For the record I don't hate you guys and I really hope nothing kicks off tonight, if you are at the game hope you all get home safe but disappointed.
 

oldblade said:
The only difference being that for some reason everyone on earth sees that Karl Lewis was disadvantaged by Ben Johnson's cheating so the race was not a true race.

However, with regard to ourselves, incredibly even a significant number of our own supporters argue that we got ourselves relegated as though West Ham's action had no effect on the outcome.

I don't see any difference between what happened in that 100 metres final and what happened in the 2006-7 premier league season.

Johnson had the assistance of a substance that he was not allowed to use under the rules. West Ham had the assistance of a player that they were not allowed to use under the rules. He was a world class player and enhanced their performances significantly, just as the drugs did for Johnson. West Ham clearly thought they would perform better with him in the side or they would not have gone to such lengths to get him in their side.

Football should be decided on the pitch, but only if everyone is playing to the same rules. Just as a race should be decided on the track. But I have never ever heard anyone say Johnson should have kept his gold medal.
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That's because scudamore and the rest of the motley crew, were not on the Olympic committee.
 
Please...please...please, can the next player to score do the Doyle cockney walk as a celebration! Or even better the whole team has to do it
 
To be reyt though, it'll be a shame when they move from there to that Olympic place...
 
Esablade said:
To be reyt though, it'll be a shame when they move from there to that Olympic place...
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Yes its a proper good old fashioned ground,that creates a fantastic atmosphere.Not many of them about now.
 
Gratious in defeat as ever I see. What a fucking cunt...

West Ham manager Sam Allardyce:

"We have lost on penalties at the end of the day.

"The fans know we should've won the game. We haven't been outplayed by Sheffield United, they made life difficult for us by playing that defensive unit. That is well within their rights when they come here.

"We opened them up time and time again with patient, good quality football, but at the end of the day the end product deserted us - in the main due to their goalkeeper."
 
Silent Blade said:
His negative comments on the Sunday papers about not getting a new contract spread the negavity throughout the club and it was never a good pre-match preparation
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When push came to shove, Warlock was not up to properly preparing his team. He lost the plot with the. Wind as situation. He failed to apply himself to what was needed against. Wigan, preferring to make his own ambitions the centre of media attention.
Mr. Warlock, post. Blades, you showed yourself in your true colours, they were not red and White were they? Warlock, a Blade? I think not. He failed to cast his spells after he leftus​
 
Esablade said:
To be reyt though, it'll be a shame when they move from there to that Olympic place...
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The move to the Olympic stadium has been shrouded in controversy since its onset. This was always going to be west ham's ground - ask spurs or orient - despite the process having to be run and re-run until they got the right result in the bidding.

The mayor of newham has shelled out an increasing amount of millions of pounds of council taxpayers money on the stadium on the most spurious financial cost/benefit analysis. The upshot is that Wetsham get the ground at a cut price and have the luxury of a dramatically reduced rent should they be relegated. This has led to claims of subsidisation of a "football" club by the Council - which would be illegal as it is outside the scope of their powers. For those interested the following blog sheds a little light. The guy who wrote it has consistently exposed the shenanigans that have gone on since the Olympic bid was announced. Worth a read if you can be bothered. If I were still a newham council taxpayer I would be, but happily I am not any more.

http://newhamnettles.blogspot.com/2013/06/newham-councils-olympic-stadium.html
 

Cyprus Blade said:
The move to the Olympic stadium has been shrouded in controversy since its onset. This was always going to be west ham's ground - ask spurs or orient - despite the process having to be run and re-run until they got the right result in the bidding.

The mayor of newham has shelled out an increasing amount of millions of pounds of council taxpayers money on the stadium on the most spurious financial cost/benefit analysis. The upshot is that Wetsham get the ground at a cut price and have the luxury of a dramatically reduced rent should they be relegated. This has led to claims of subsidisation of a "football" club by the Council - which would be illegal as it is outside the scope of their powers. For those interested the following blog sheds a little light. The guy who wrote it has consistently exposed the shenanigans that have gone on since the Olympic bid was announced. Worth a read if you can be bothered. If I were still a newham council taxpayer I would be, but happily I am not any more.

http://newhamnettles.blogspot.com/2013/06/newham-councils-olympic-stadium.html
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Id add that Robin Wales, the Newham Council chief who approved this, supports...West Ham.

This was always going to happen. Olympic venues are just that, like the ones in Athens, or Barcelona, or Montreal. They sit around empty embarrassing the politicians who spent your money on them. So they spend more of your money moving people in to save their blushes.
 
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