Better to happen now

[Stretch]

I think the team needed to experience a defeat again. Last Saturday must have felt like one but in the grand scheme was still a point on the road and it kept the run going. They have gotten away with being so slack in front of goal recently, but tonight should really have focused minds.

Thankfully we are still early in the season and comfortably in touch of the autos. I still really fancy us and don't see performances tailing off any time soon.

The next month will see the other contenders take points off each other and to be honest goals from all top 4 have been a bit lacking in the last 2 or 3 games. That won't last.

I do think we will also have a good JTW. Maybe the obsession with signing EEL will subside as Wilder identifies a more realistic and affordable target and I can see us shipping a few out on loan to be replaced by better quality up front and out wide.

Wilder turned it round before from a much worse position and he will again. He has a team playing well but who have just lost their cutting edge. A few tweaks using the options available to him and we will be fine.

Not sure what you all think but I honestly don't see us slipping up too many times. Top 2 come January I reckon and we won't drop back out for long.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Well you've asked what we think, so here's what I think honestly...

I think your opening sentence is nonsense. There is no need for the team to have experienced defeat. That is of no advantage whatsoever. Any team that is capable of learning something can learn equally well from a draw or a win. It sounds like you are suggesting that there is some kind of catharsis to a defeat?. A release of pressure that will be for the good of the team and future results. There won't. There's no evidence of that whatsoever, whatever stats you might want to look at.

Defeats only damage confidence. Wins do the opposite. (Draws are somewhere in between I guess)?

What would have been far better would have been a win. The team needed to win more than they needed to lose. They've gained nothing by losing, nothing at all. They've learned nothing as a result of losing that they couldn't have learned from a win.

It's a bit like when fans say that "relegation is a good thing". I can assure you, it never is. It's a disaster. Maybe people see this as the thing that makes a club go back and take stock of it's position and start to clear the decks? But club's should always be taking stock of their position and if the decks need clearing then clear them now, not later.

It's the same argument. If you think that there is a learning that has come from last night's defeat, that we didn't have before - then tell us what it is? Because I don't see one. What I've seen is that we lack a cutting edge up front - and that's been obvious in every game since that glorious extravaganza at Chesterfield a few games ago. The wins against Shrewsbury, Bury, the draw against Charlton and the defeat last night to Walsall all tell us this same thing. We didn't need to lose for that to be obvious. It was obvious already.

But I doubt we can do much about it yet - because we need new players to fix it.

I thought we looked better in the second half when Chapman came on, because he offered a bit of pace - something that this team lacks. I see young Lavery got his customary 10 minutes on the pitch? Hard to know what he's got to offer given how little game time he seems to get, but I heard, before he came here, that he was pacey. I haven't seen that in him yet, or much else tbh. But let's give him time. However, let's not rely on him coming good either.

They will be having a January sale at Chesterfield - it will be a good 'un an' all. A kind of "closing down" sale. They have two players there that we should be busting a gut to bring here. One is a very fast, somewhat raw, winger, called Gboly Ariyibi. The other needs no introduction to Blades fans.

Those two last night would have made a difference.

 

[Rodley]

It's only a blip, we go again in 10 days or so.

UTB

 

[finlaytheblade]

I think the team needed to experience a defeat again. Last Saturday must have felt like one but in the grand scheme was still a point on the road and it kept the run going. They have gotten away with being so slack in front of goal recently, but tonight should really have focused minds.

Thankfully we are still early in the season and comfortably in touch of the autos. I still really fancy us and don't see performances tailing off any time soon.

The next month will see the other contenders take points off each other and to be honest goals from all top 4 have been a bit lacking in the last 2 or 3 games. That won't last.

I do think we will also have a good JTW. Maybe the obsession with signing EEL will subside as Wilder identifies a more realistic and affordable target and I can see us shipping a few out on loan to be replaced by better quality up front and out wide.

Wilder turned it round before from a much worse position and he will again. He has a team playing well but who have just lost their cutting edge. A few tweaks using the options available to him and we will be fine.

Not sure what you all think but I honestly don't see us slipping up too many times. Top 2 come January I reckon and we won't drop back out for long.

Don't understand all this love in with eel he's a stopper and there's a lot of them around Walsall have produced a good one if last night is anything to go by.There are other fish ( and better) fish in the sea and Wilder knows this.

 

[Stretch]

Well you've asked what we think, so here's what I think honestly...

I think your opening sentence is nonsense. There is no need for the team to have experienced defeat. That is of no advantage whatsoever. Any team that is capable of learning something can learn equally well from a draw or a win. It sounds like you are suggesting that there is some kind of catharsis to a defeat?. A release of pressure that will be for the good of the team and future results. There won't. There's no evidence of that whatsoever, whatever stats you might want to look at.

Defeats only damage confidence. Wins do the opposite. (Draws are somewhere in between I guess)?

What would have been far better would have been a win. The team needed to win more than they needed to lose. They've gained nothing by losing, nothing at all. They've learned nothing as a result of losing that they couldn't have learned from a win.

It's a bit like when fans say that "relegation is a good thing". I can assure you, it never is. It's a disaster. Maybe people see this as the thing that makes a club go back and take stock of it's position and start to clear the decks? But club's should always be taking stock of their position and if the decks need clearing then clear them now, not later.

It's the same argument. If you think that there is a learning that has come from last night's defeat, that we didn't have before - then tell us what it is? Because I don't see one. What I've seen is that we lack a cutting edge up front - and that's been obvious in every game since that glorious extravaganza at Chesterfield a few games ago. The wins against Shrewsbury, Bury, the draw against Charlton and the defeat last night to Walsall all tell us this same thing. We didn't need to lose for that to be obvious. It was obvious already.

But I doubt we can do much about it yet - because we need new players to fix it.

I thought we looked better in the second half when Chapman came on, because he offered a bit of pace - something that this team lacks. I see young Lavery got his customary 10 minutes on the pitch? Hard to know what he's got to offer given how little game time he seems to get, but I heard, before he came here, that he was pacey. I haven't seen that in him yet, or much else tbh. But let's give him time. However, let's not rely on him coming good either.

They will be having a January sale at Chesterfield - it will be a good 'un an' all. A kind of "closing down" sale. They have two players there that we should be busting a gut to bring here. One is a very fast, somewhat raw, winger, called Gboly Ariyibi. The other needs no introduction to Blades fans.

Those two last night would have made a difference.

My point is that there has to a turning point, a recognition of what you are doing wrong/ aren't doing correctly to improve. That won't happen necessarily if you keep scraping through and getting the job done
(Shrews & Bury) but perhaps should have done after Charlton, yet didn't because we still got something, something that many would have taken pre match. Last night we were expected to win and truly get at the auto spots.
The last turning point for this team was Millwall, i.e. don't let stupid mistakes ruin a good performance. Now it's about taking your chances and until we lost a match we weren't going to turn the corner. Maybe we haven't yet, the next match with tell us.

Long unbeaten runs are fantastic but I can imagine a certain amount of complacency sneaks into even the best teams. Many great sportsman have said that you learn more from defeat than victory. I believe personally that failure teaches us more about our character than always succeeding will.

Still.confident that CW will get us through this.
Hardly a disaster when you look at the table and December is going to be interesting.

 

[curly]

We are going to lose games but from what i've seen it will be very few. Walsall, Bury and Shrew's could have had a real spanking, so if we keep dominating games and keep creating as we have being doing then we will be fine. My only concern is the Billy and Leon partnership not working but i'm sure it will be sorted sooner than later.

 

[BushBlade]

CW will have learnt more about this side over the last week or so than the previous ten games. And it's better that happens now than in March.
Apart from that, pretty crap result but crap results happen.

 

[Slim Man]

We've learned we are still lacking up front, and that we need more out wide.

 

[BushBlade]

We've learned we are still lacking up front, and that we need more out wide.

And if we kept scraping wins until the JTW it might have been difficult for CW to convince the board to spend. Games like this will form part of his argument for more funds. And how we react to the defeat will teach him a lot about the character of some of our players.

 

[Slim Man]

And if we kept scraping wins until the JTW it might have been difficult for CW to convince the board to spend. Games like this will form part of his argument for more funds. And how we react to the defeat will teach him a lot about the character of some of our players.

We'll learn a lot about Kev in January. We still should have money from selling both Che and DCL, plus whatever budget we had to start the season with, plus the wages gone from last season. I know we've spent a bit of it in Moore and obviously the others have contributed but we still should have enough to make a couple of signings to take us over the line.

McCabe and the Prince need to back Wilder now.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

I think the team needed to experience a defeat again. Last Saturday must have felt like one but in the grand scheme was still a point on the road and it kept the run going. They have gotten away with being so slack in front of goal recently, but tonight should really have focused minds.

Thankfully we are still early in the season and comfortably in touch of the autos. I still really fancy us and don't see performances tailing off any time soon.

The next month will see the other contenders take points off each other and to be honest goals from all top 4 have been a bit lacking in the last 2 or 3 games. That won't last.

I do think we will also have a good JTW. Maybe the obsession with signing EEL will subside as Wilder identifies a more realistic and affordable target and I can see us shipping a few out on loan to be replaced by better quality up front and out wide.

Wilder turned it round before from a much worse position and he will again. He has a team playing well but who have just lost their cutting edge. A few tweaks using the options available to him and we will be fine.

Not sure what you all think but I honestly don't see us slipping up too many times. Top 2 come January I reckon and we won't drop back out for long.

Yep.

 

[coaxingstar71]

There's a lot of knee jerk reactions going on around the forum in the aftermath of the Walsall defeat. It's disappointing, obviously, but all this talk about us needing new players and we should be doing this, altering formations and changing this that and the other are premature to say the least.

I'm sure CW is aware of our failings and the team will be looking to address them for the next game. If Billy scores the pen and one of the other chances goes our way, we're talking about a deserved win. I'd be more concerned if we were outplayed and lost 1-0.

Thinking back to last season such as games at home to Wigan and Scunthorpe where we just never looked like scoring, let alone winning those games, there's a massive difference in the ethic and mentality. This team look well capable of winning every game they play.

We'll be around the top two places come the final stages of the season.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

There's a lot of knee jerk reactions going on around the forum in the aftermath of the Walsall defeat. It's disappointing, obviously, but all this talk about us needing new players and we should be doing this, altering formations and changing this that and the other are premature to say the least.

Yep.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Well you've asked what we think, so here's what I think honestly...

I think your opening sentence is nonsense. There is no need for the team to have experienced defeat. That is of no advantage whatsoever. Any team that is capable of learning something can learn equally well from a draw or a win. It sounds like you are suggesting that there is some kind of catharsis to a defeat?. A release of pressure that will be for the good of the team and future results. There won't. There's no evidence of that whatsoever, whatever stats you might want to look at.

Defeats only damage confidence. Wins do the opposite. (Draws are somewhere in between I guess)?

What would have been far better would have been a win. The team needed to win more than they needed to lose. They've gained nothing by losing, nothing at all. They've learned nothing as a result of losing that they couldn't have learned from a win.

It's a bit like when fans say that "relegation is a good thing". I can assure you, it never is. It's a disaster. Maybe people see this as the thing that makes a club go back and take stock of it's position and start to clear the decks? But club's should always be taking stock of their position and if the decks need clearing then clear them now, not later.

It's the same argument. If you think that there is a learning that has come from last night's defeat, that we didn't have before - then tell us what it is? Because I don't see one. What I've seen is that we lack a cutting edge up front - and that's been obvious in every game since that glorious extravaganza at Chesterfield a few games ago. The wins against Shrewsbury, Bury, the draw against Charlton and the defeat last night to Walsall all tell us this same thing. We didn't need to lose for that to be obvious. It was obvious already.

But I doubt we can do much about it yet - because we need new players to fix it.

I thought we looked better in the second half when Chapman came on, because he offered a bit of pace - something that this team lacks. I see young Lavery got his customary 10 minutes on the pitch? Hard to know what he's got to offer given how little game time he seems to get, but I heard, before he came here, that he was pacey. I haven't seen that in him yet, or much else tbh. But let's give him time. However, let's not rely on him coming good either.

They will be having a January sale at Chesterfield - it will be a good 'un an' all. A kind of "closing down" sale. They have two players there that we should be busting a gut to bring here. One is a very fast, somewhat raw, winger, called Gboly Ariyibi. The other needs no introduction to Blades fans.

Those two last night would have made a difference.

I agree about the 2 Chesterfield players.


In fact, I largely agree with your post. I think what we could say we have learned though is that Billy Sharp must be taken off penalties and that the Clarke/ Sharp partnership doesn’t work. You could also argue that it might have caused us to learn that we don’t have enough up front yet and in fact do need to bring in another forward, Evans being the obvious choice. It’s possible that those lessons might be learned whilst still obtaining positive results but given the subjectivity, opinion would be divided. Perhaps those in charge will be forced to take stock and dip into the coffers for the extra firepower we need to break down those stubborn defences.


As for Lavery, I agree we need to see more of him and next week might be the ideal opportunity in the cup. A front line of


Chapman---Scougall------Lavery

-----------------Clarke


If we go 451 or


---------------Chapman

---------Clarke-------Lavery


If it’s 352.


I’d rest Sharp altogether and leave Done on the bench with a view to probably starting him in the next league game. I think Lavery needs game time to show what he can do, Chapman deserves a start. Clarke needs a run out without Sharp to see how he does (and probably Sharp without Clarke when we return to league action). Would also be nice to see Brooks get some game time again, probably from the bench.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

There's a lot of knee jerk reactions going on around the forum in the aftermath of the Walsall defeat. It's disappointing, obviously, but all this talk about us needing new players and we should be doing this, altering formations and changing this that and the other are premature to say the least.

I'm sure CW is aware of our failings and the team will be looking to address them for the next game. If Billy scores the pen and one of the other chances goes our way, we're talking about a deserved win. I'd be more concerned if we were outplayed and lost 1-0.

Thinking back to last season such as games at home to Wigan and Scunthorpe where we just never looked like scoring, let alone winning those games, there's a massive difference in the ethic and mentality. This team look well capable of winning every game they play.

We'll be around the top two places come the final stages of the season.

I agree with a lot of that but don’t think most of the comments are knee-jerk. During the good run, people praised the balance of the team and how the system was getting the best out of players but identified areas of the pitch (mainly Done and Lafferty) that we could improve on. Clarke was brought in to see if it would be an improvement on Done. Most are now saying that we need to go back to Done as it worked better but that in order to find the player that will be an improvement, we may have to look externally. Some have been saying that all along. This has simply accentuated the issue as perhaps brought some more over to that way of thinking. All in all, we are still in good shape and will be in the mix but we should of course look at what we can do to try to improve and cement a top 2 place.

 

[I should coco]

I think Lavery needs game time to RUN HIS TROTTERS OFF,

There, fixed that for you.

 

[Good Pinch Of Snuff]

Is Lavery even match fit? He's hardly had any game time

 

[coaxingstar71]

I agree with a lot of that but don’t think most of the comments are knee-jerk. During the good run, people praised the balance of the team and how the system was getting the best out of players but identified areas of the pitch (mainly Done and Lafferty) that we could improve on. Clarke was brought in to see if it would be an improvement on Done. Most are now saying that we need to go back to Done as it worked better but that in order to find the player that will be an improvement, we may have to look externally. Some have been saying that all along. This has simply accentuated the issue as perhaps brought some more over to that way of thinking. All in all, we are still in good shape and will be in the mix but we should of course look at what we can do to try to improve and cement a top 2 place.

I agree with you and it would be nice to think that, for once, we'd be more ambitious in the JTW, however, from a realistic view, it could be more a case of keeping hold of what we've got (EEL & Lafferty) rather than who we could bring in.

My own feelings on Done/Clarke is that I don't think Done is appreciated as much as he should be, generally. I believe that part of the reason Sharp has 12 goals is because of Done, and not just in assists, but the way he pulls the defences around. Many have pointed out the lack of movement when Clarke and Sharp play together - that's not to say they can't do better at it.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

We'll learn a lot about Kev in January. We still should have money from selling both Che and DCL, plus whatever budget we had to start the season with, plus the wages gone from last season. I know we've spent a bit of it in Moore and obviously the others have contributed but we still should have enough to make a couple of signings to take us over the line.

McCabe and the Prince need to back Wilder now.

on the flipside, our (potentially) biggest earner Coutts is still here and was expected not to be on the wage bill.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I agree with you and it would be nice to think that, for once, we'd be more ambitious in the JTW, however, from a realistic view, it could be more a case of keeping hold of what we've got (EEL & Lafferty) rather than who we could bring in.

My own feelings on Done/Clarke is that I don't think Done is appreciated as much as he should be, generally. I believe that part of the reason Sharp has 12 goals is because of Done, and not just in assists, but the way he pulls the defences around. Many have pointed out the lack of movement when Clarke and Sharp play together - that's not to say they can't do better at it.

Yeah I’d agree with that. Ideally, we want someone who does the work Done does stretching defences and giving them plenty to think about with their movement but someone who is technically better. Ideally, someone who can create for themselves and shoot from distance too. For me, from the players we can potentially afford. Evans is that man. In the meantime, Done is probably our best bet.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

We're following a similar path to Northampton last season where they lost 3 of their 1st 6 games, had a couple of decent mini-runs and then went unbeaten from late December. Here's hoping.

With all the relative doom and gloom in the last week or so, we're only just behind the reliable 2 points a game marker for promotion and I still think we're more likely to keep this standard of consistency up than not. We can all see there needs to be tweaks but that's probably all they are and Wilder knows it.

 

[Harry's Game]

The rotten first month we had means we can afford less of these slip us than the others. It also means we can't afford any run of results where we don't win for three or four games.

Big big games from now until New year.

 

[More Bladier than thou]

wasnt wolves boss in the stands checking on EEL ? He picked the right game to come to, we dont want him going back to wolves do we.

 

[PokerBlade]

Echoing the first response in this thread, this sounds like nonsense.

Better to not happen at all than to happen now. Better to happen when we're mathematically promoted than now.

Sure, this isn't the end of the world, but we knew what areas we needed to improve this time last week. A defeat wasn't necessary to see or to do anything about that. We had a huge opportunity last night to go ahead of Bolton and put pressure on Scunthorpe. Now we're playing catch up again having blown our game advantage.

Plenty of time left, plenty of twists and turns coming, but losing to Walsall at home is in no sense a positive.

 

[Bridge Blade]

We're not arsenal it's gonna happen. Don't get too carried away when we win and don't get too down when we lose its football, this win lose or draw thing will keep on happening.

 

[Champagneblade]

To add to this debate I'd say that Wilder is doing the right thing making a few minor adjustments and looking for improvement in the lead up to the JTW.

It's important what cash we spend goes on the right areas.

He's done a good job on sorting out the midfield. The trio of Coutts, Fleck and Duffy have allowed us to dominate games on a consistent basis, whether we always get what we deserve is something else.

When fit, I'm pretty sure he'd be happy with EEL-Wright-JOC as the three and Basham is a capable experienced guy to plug gaps.

Freeman has been very good and Basham again brings experience and stamina if not quality in delivery at times. He also has the option to recall Brayford back into a confident team with a winning mentality if he so chooses.

I don't think we have seen the last of Hussey. Didn't he get double figure assists last year? Ironically, if anyone would benefit from 3-5-2 it's probably an Attack minded fullback who would appreciate the cover an additional centre half would provide. Him at home and Lafferty away would be a very simple view on optimising our resources.

Sharp has scored some crucial players and is a player that goes on scoring runs. Done has very much been the Okazaki to his Vardy in terms of goals. Chris is right to explore if he can get 2 goal scorers to click. This is going to be the difference between top two and play offs. It's important he forms a solid view on Clarke, Done, Lavery, Scougall and Chapman before he goes splashing the cash.

I'd be keen to see Chapman next given a run. But Lavery was seen as a good support for a poacher with McNulty and to be very fair although unconventional, Scougall has had a very good output this year. Maybe he becomes the unlikely 10-15 goal partner to Sharp before chequebooks get bandied about.

 

[Stretch]

Echoing the first response in this thread, this sounds like nonsense.

Better to not happen at all than to happen now. Better to happen when we're mathematically promoted than now.

Sure, this isn't the end of the world, but we knew what areas we needed to improve this time last week. A defeat wasn't necessary to see or to do anything about that. We had a huge opportunity last night to go ahead of Bolton and put pressure on Scunthorpe. Now we're playing catch up again having blown our game advantage.

Plenty of time left, plenty of twists and turns coming, but losing to Walsall at home is in no sense a positive.

I never said it was a positive.

 

[PokerBlade]

I never said it was a positive.

So we needed something bad? How does that work?

 

[blade too long]

we are nearly the finished article
but for the finishing
9 times out of 10 we would have won that game
sharp missing a pen and having a goal chalked off , would have counted in another game and wed be still on track

but all teams lose occasionally when things dont pan out
we arent a million miles away but still need a bit of tweeking
a good side responds to a defeat and Coventry might feel the back lash

 

[Stretch]

So we needed something bad? How does that work?

I said we needed a kick up the arse, in so many words. Wilder couldn't deliver it after Charlton so maybe last night will.

We are still in a great position and can kick on if we learn from that defeat.