Backpass Berge v Norwood the Conductor!

[bonobo]

With the old backwards, sideways vs gerrit forward business. Is it ever considered this how they are being asked to play. Everything is about wide overloads, they are not being asked to play through balls. The central midfielder is being asked to keep the ball moving while players get into the shape Wilder wants and pin the opposition in wide area, whether that required 2 passes or 10. I haven't seen enough of Berge, but I never got the impression Norwood was reluctant to move the ball forward, he certainly did that when he first arrived and we had Duffy in front off him and when I saw him for his previous teams.

 

[alcoblade]

Berge is head and shoulders our best midfielder. Not his fault that he’s had to be shifted across the 3 to cover. Our midfield should be moulded around him.

That’s debatable. But in premier league life, at no point has our midfield unit been”head and shoulders at its best” with him in it.

And we can’t afford to mould everything around a player who’s extremely unlikely to be here next season.

 

[pommpey]

With the old backwards, sideways vs gerrit forward business. Is it ever considered this how they are being asked to play. Everything is about wide overloads, they are not being asked to play through balls. The central midfielder is being asked to keep the ball moving while players get into the shape Wilder wants and pin the opposition in wide area, whether that required 2 passes or 10. I haven't seen enough of Berge, but I never got the impression Norwood was reluctant to move the ball forward, he certainly did that when he first arrived and we had Duffy in front off him and when I saw him for his previous teams.

The 'play it wide' strategy has had it's time. Oppositions just sacrifice a central marker to pin us in with a four man block. It gets so far, they force us into a tippty-tappy passing game and it's either lost and we are on the retreat or it goes back, across the backline (usually via Norwood) and up the other side, block, back, across. Eventually we'll lose possession. It's called 'Wilderball'. Worked for four seasons, post lockdown, it is as dead as Pele's dick.

Plymouth game, Norwood gets the ball in the middle, is looking wide for the boot across the pitch meanwhile Billy is stood in the penalty arc saying 'Me! Me! Me!' Norwood finds him with a perfect pass, Billy turns his man, rounds the keeper and it's in.

It doesn't have to go wide all the time.

pommpey

 

[A Storm of Blades]

That’s debatable. But in premier league life, at no point has our midfield unit been”head and shoulders at its best” with him in it.

And we can’t afford to mould everything around a player who’s extremely unlikely to be here next season.

That’s a fair point

 

[A Storm of Blades]

No, I'm not confusing them at all.

I'm saying what attributes he might possess (largely unseen by us to date, so I won't give him credit for abilities I've yet to fully see) have been hidden by being asked to perform roles he is not best suited to.

I can accept that our midfield hasn’t performed as a unit with Berge in it. Surely, though it’s obvious the lad is brimming with ability, isn’t it? That’s the point I’m making. The touch and dribbling ability for a big lad, almost impossible to knock off the ball, good crosser, eye for a pass, can finish, even a decent turn of pace considering he probably weighs as much as a pallet of sand bags. Again, happy to concede all that to be true and our midfield was still largely shite with him in it.

 

[Revolution]

I can accept that our midfield hasn’t performed as a unit with Berge in it. Surely, though it’s obvious the lad is brimming with ability, isn’t it? That’s the point I’m making. The touch and dribbling ability for a big lad, almost impossible to knock off the ball, good crosser, eye for a pass, can finish, even a decent turn of pace considering he probably weighs as much as a pallet of sand bags. Again, happy to concede all that to be true and our midfield was still largely shite with him in it.

Berge shows none of these attributes with any regularity.

To give one example, “can finish”, he has one open play goal, from a good shot v Spurs last season. Has he worked the keeper in any game this season?

Then there’s “decent turn of pace”. Occasionally. Most of the time he looks ponderous. Plus he has this appalling tendency - and he’s not alone in this - to come to a dead stop and go backwards, which puts us in trouble. Look how the West Ham goal came about, for example.

It’s like that with everything he does well. He doesn’t do these things with any regularity, even in the same game. He’s not doing enough.

 

[Stretch]

Wilders biggest mistake was breaking the midfield up to shoehorn Berge in. We are only just starting to play again with the 3 midfielders. Not having a go at Berge ,I just dont think his style of play is suited to our style or the English game.

Hard to disagree with this. I like Berge and I am glad we signed him, but last season the established 3 had been excellent, bar a few misfires.

Instead of sticking Berge straight in at the expense of Lunny or Norwood, he should have been eased in gradually. I suspect playing time was part of the leverage to get him to sign, but by breaking up the 3 regulars it put noses out of joint and disrupted our style.

All that being said, I hope we keep hold of him and have another stab at building the midfield around him.

 

[GuangzhouBlade]

Why is Coutts the yardstick by which many still judge Norwood?

Coutts was part of a great midfield in League 1 and for a short while in the Championship but hasn't played a minute of Premier League football. I'm sure either Berge or Norwood would play the role just as well if not better than Coutts did in League 1 and the championship. The pace of the game is so much slower.

Rather annoyingly I still feel Lundstram is the midfielder most suited to premier league football with his atheltisicm and ability on the ball so I don't want to see Berge crowbarred into that right mid role at his expense though we may not have that choice come the summer. Berge is someone we can build a team around but I'm yet to be convinced he has a position in our current system. I feel the same about Brewster to be honest. I think both him and Berge will thrive in teams that dominate the ball and apply contained pressure rather than our more gung-ho style. I hope to be proved wrong as they certainly both have ability.

 

[jezw2014]

Yes. I’m all for fair criticism in the debates, but replacing our players names with insulting words if fucking pathetic.

Say what you see my friend!

 

[Bartleby]

As far as analogies go, this one is spot on, I’m now picturing Nigel Kennedy on stage with Anthrax.

Good point, well made.