Athleticism & Mobility

[SwitchBLADE Smiles]

Is something this side desperately lacks all over the pitch, especially so in the middle & it’s our biggest weakness IMO. We look so weak defensively, but to be fair to Egan & Davies, they don’t get any protection from the midfield at all.

Edit (forgot to make my actual point!!). Norwood & Fleck will get over run in midfield in more games than they don’t this season & it’s purely down to not being able to compete physically with the opposition.

Question is, how is this remedied? I don’t think we have anyone at the club that can solve it right now, unless we manage to somehow shoehorn Basham in a purely defensive midfield position.

Unfortunately I think we’re going to see this defensive frailty until January at the absolute earliest.

 

[Nagima]

Agree totally with that assessment. A couple of physical box to box midfielders who can tackle would transform the team. Give more defensive cover and break up play enough to allow Nydie and MGW to thrive.

 

[SwissBlade]

Is something this side desperately lacks all over the pitch, especially so in the middle & it’s our biggest weakness IMO. We look so weak defensively, but to be fair to Egan & Davies, they don’t get any protection from the midfield at all.

Edit (forgot to make my actual point!!). Norwood & Fleck will get over run in midfield in more games than they don’t this season & it’s purely down to not being able to compete physically with the opposition.

Question is, how is this remedied? I don’t think we have anyone at the club that can solve it right now, unless we manage to somehow shoehorn Basham in a purely defensive midfield position.

Unfortunately I think we’re going to see this defensive frailty until January at the absolute earliest.

So rather than athleticism and mobiliyu( which we’ve shown tonight…. You’re talking about physicality and guile in the midfield. Someone that can’t put a tackle in rather than get shrugged off everytime

We look very Barry Bannan in the middle of midfield tonight. Ok on the ball but easily overrun.

Would’ve brought the Algerian lad on for Norwood… but we appear to have brought didsy on. Strange one

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I thought Hourihane was supposed to be the enforcer in the middle of the park.

 

[jt64]

Agree totally with that assessment. A couple of physical box to box midfielders who can tackle would transform the team. Give more defensive cover and break up play enough to allow Nydie and MGW to thrive.

When was the last time such a player existed

 

[FMBlade1]

When was the last time such a player existed

Monty?

 

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

Can I add "bollocks" to the attributes of this thread title?

Davies looks soft as babyshit. Egan also needs help at side of him, they dont seem to be able to work together.

Come January I'd love us to sign a big, ugly, shithousing CB. Not a marquee, big name signing for the media team to put a photoshoot together with some grime music over it. An underwhelming Jake Wright type of signing. Someone who can lead, organise the back 4, read the game, win headers/2nd balls and clear their lines. Aden Flint springs to mind.

 

[jt64]

Monty?

I'm talking in general. Those sorts of players simply don't exist anymore because the game has evolved and become more specialised, and fitness is such that you can't run round like a headless chicken for 90

 

[bongleblade]

Is something this side desperately lacks all over the pitch, especially so in the middle & it’s our biggest weakness IMO. We look so weak defensively, but to be fair to Egan & Davies, they don’t get any protection from the midfield at all.

Edit (forgot to make my actual point!!). Norwood & Fleck will get over run in midfield in more games than they don’t this season & it’s purely down to not being able to compete physically with the opposition.

Question is, how is this remedied? I don’t think we have anyone at the club that can solve it right now, unless we manage to somehow shoehorn Basham in a purely defensive midfield position.

Unfortunately I think we’re going to see this defensive frailty until January at the absolute earliest.

shoehorn basham? coorect me if i am wrong but didnt he earn the majority of his money playing as a CDM before being shoehorned/moulded into a CB? I think Bash could be excellent there, said it a few times!

 

[Jon Bon II]

I thought Hourihane was supposed to be the enforcer in the middle of the park.

Unfortunately, we didn't get the Barnsley or Villa version, we got the on-loan at Swansea version.

 

[Ceasefire]

We have got to be the physically weakest and smallest team in this league. We were bullied by stronger more athletic players tonight. Just like the WBA match we were toothless.
Slav has got a big rebuilding job here

 

[Nagima]

I'm talking in general. Those sorts of players simply don't exist anymore because the game has evolved and become more specialised, and fitness is such that you can't run round like a headless chicken for 90

Who said running around like headless chickens...we got out played by middlesboroughs midfield. Who were big and put a shift in. We didn't lay a glove on them. And can't run around for 90 minutes???.. Norwood and Fleck were strolling around. We seemed to get a bit of energy when the languid McGoldrick came on.

 

[Nelson1889]

Lost count of the amount of times fleck and Norwood just get completely bypassed by opposition midfielders like their not even there. A 5 yard burst from a midfielder and they've not a clue how to stop it and they are on to our back 4.

There was time after the ronaldo vieira deal fell through to go after another of that type that would win battles in midfield and we ended up with a 35 year old semi retired in Qatar.

This team is still at least 2 midfielders short of challenging for promotion.

 

[puppet]

When was the last time such a player existed

Mark Patterson!

 

[SwitchBLADE Smiles]

shoehorn basham? coorect me if i am wrong but didnt he earn the majority of his money playing as a CDM before being shoehorned/moulded into a CB? I think Bash could be excellent there, said it a few times!

By shoehorn in, I meant we would obviously have to lose someone elsewhere in the side. Where that comes from is anyone’s guess, but it’s a serious problem for us at the minute. We can’t go the rest of the season where the opposition just need to chase our central midfield a bit & we’re under immense pressure.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Is something this side desperately lacks all over the pitch, especially so in the middle & it’s our biggest weakness IMO. We look so weak defensively, but to be fair to Egan & Davies, they don’t get any protection from the midfield at all.

Edit (forgot to make my actual point!!). Norwood & Fleck will get over run in midfield in more games than they don’t this season & it’s purely down to not being able to compete physically with the opposition.

Question is, how is this remedied? I don’t think we have anyone at the club that can solve it right now, unless we manage to somehow shoehorn Basham in a purely defensive midfield position.

Unfortunately I think we’re going to see this defensive frailty until January at the absolute earliest.

Totally agree with you. Its a shame the Ronaldo Vieira deal didn't come off, he looked just what we needed back there.

I think Fleck needs to come out of the side next game. He was abysmal tonight. Truly atrocious.

 

[Snowflake]

I'm talking in general. Those sorts of players simply don't exist anymore because the game has evolved and become more specialised, and fitness is such that you can't run round like a headless chicken for 90

Sorry, I disagree.
The ability to win tackles and to outmuscle the opposition is still a big part of EFL football. That is different from having a “clogger” in midfield who gives away free kicks in dangerous places.
We seem to lose nearly every 50-50 and many 60-40s.
Add to that a total panic in midfield when we receive the ball and quickly pass it to whoever is nearest, regardless of which side they are on, and we keep setting up the opposition.

 

[jt64]

Sorry, I disagree.
The ability to win tackles and to outmuscle the opposition is still a big part of EFL football.

I am talking about the mythical "box to box midfielder". Sure, the sort of players you mean exist. Plenty of people wanted Besic back for some reason. He's not going to add goals and assists though

 

[robbiez666]

We have two people who can play in that high energy role for 45 minutes each and their combined age is over 70

 

[Wandsworth Blade]

Can I add "bollocks" to the attributes of this thread title?

Davies looks soft as babyshit. Egan also needs help at side of him, they dont seem to be able to work together.

Come January I'd love us to sign a big, ugly, shithousing CB. Not a marquee, big name signing for the media team to put a photoshoot together with some grime music over it. An underwhelming Jake Wright type of signing. Someone who can lead, organise the back 4, read the game, win headers/2nd balls and clear their lines. Aden Flint springs to mind.

If you look at their centre backs tonight they played really well. Sharp was outmuscled and good no-nonsense defending. Borough also were quick on the break - usually with a sniff of a chance at the end of it. Our plodding attacks were so slow in comparison.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Can I add "bollocks" to the attributes of this thread title?

Davies looks soft as babyshit. Egan also needs help at side of him, they dont seem to be able to work together.

Come January I'd love us to sign a big, ugly, shithousing CB. Not a marquee, big name signing for the media team to put a photoshoot together with some grime music over it. An underwhelming Jake Wright type of signing. Someone who can lead, organise the back 4, read the game, win headers/2nd balls and clear their lines. Aden Flint springs to mind.

Agree it's something to consider.

But Flint's been ever present for Cardiff who conceded four tonight. Only Peterborough have conceded more goals than them this season.

 

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

Agree it's something to consider.

But Flint's been ever present for Cardiff who conceded four tonight. Only Peterborough have conceded more goals than them this season.

Flint sprung to mind as someone with all the attributes.

As for his recent credentials -well if I had recommended 3rd choice, 31yo, Oxford CB Jake Wright back in 2016 I'd have been laughed at.
See also Bob Booker.

 

[Roygbiv]

The Boro centre halves tonight have been ridiculed all this season by their fans. When the side was announced tonight their fans weren't happy with the back 4 at all. The fact they put in that sort of performance was a bigger insult to Egan and Davies than it was to Sharp in my opinion. Not once this season has our defence put in a competent display like that.

 

[FriethBlade]

D'Jaffo spot on. I've been saying for 2 seasons we need a proper brick shithouse 6ft 4in centre half who wins everything in the air. The Millwall left footed centre half is the one I'd go for.

 

[Deadbat]

I have been hugely underwhelmed by Davies personally. A good footballing centre back was the least of our priorities at this level. We needed some physicality and someone to impose themselves. He is one of the weakest centre halves I have seen for some time at the Lane as decent a footballer as he is and we saw tonight that he will just get bullied. Be my first priority in January - a big dominant centre half. Ironically for the loan fee we could have probably signed one permanently.

 

[Rudders]

We are a tiny and slow side. Our only two fast players are Burke and MGW. Only McBurnie, Sharp and Egan can head it really. It's pathetic really. I'd absolutely love Paul Mitchell to come on here and explain why he thinks that our consistently signing small, weak players is going to work. We are massively imbalanced position wise with players who are too bad to play in certain positions (Verrips; Wes; Jack Robinson; Freeman and then we have loads of CAMS (N'Diaye; Freeman; Didz; Osborn and MGW) but very little choice in centre midfielders, CDM or centre backs) and also physically we can't compete.
Many of our recent signings have made us slower or smaller (bar Olsen). Ben Davies is almost as small as Jack Robinson who is a full back. They both get bullied by average height forwards. Egan is only ok in the air defensively and gets turned easily by fast forwards. Hourihane is smaller than Norwood heads better but is even slower I reckon. SJ then compounds it by playing all the smallest players we have (our average team height must be about 5'7'').
I almost wouldn't mind if Brewster had cost £20M and was crap but was big (Benteke) or was fast (Traore). He is neither - physically he is middle of the road.
Football is getting faster and more physical but we are going in the opposite direction.
I think we are trying to replicate the Man City tactics of insane work ethic and guile of small forwards and attacking midfield players but without any of the other parts like the strength of Laporte/Fernandinho/Dias/Rhodri and without the pace of Walker or Zinchenko or the world class goalkeeper.
Its a mess and mid table is about the most we can hope for this season.
There is no point getting promoted as we are a million miles off being good enough.
We still need that huge clearout. Its going to take quite a few windows or a huge amount of player trading activity in one window to sort it out, I cant see the Prince bankrolling it.

 

[bertieblade]

Not one of our midfield players is capable of making a tackle. Too many times the opposition just run through us, not pass through us. Which means that they have more players around the ball in our half.
we wait until our defenders tackle which means they are in and around our box, it’s like bloody Rourkes drift

 

[Sheff de party]

Can I add "bollocks" to the attributes of this thread title?

Davies looks soft as babyshit. Egan also needs help at side of him, they dont seem to be able to work together.

Come January I'd love us to sign a big, ugly, shithousing CB. Not a marquee, big name signing for the media team to put a photoshoot together with some grime music over it. An underwhelming Jake Wright type of signing. Someone who can lead, organise the back 4, read the game, win headers/2nd balls and clear their lines. Aden Flint springs to mind.

Davies is plenty strong enough and a very clever centre half. He’s definitely who we need. The OP is correct that we just get run over.

If you want a big ugly player, he should be a central midfielder.

 

[YabbaDabba]

Sorry, I disagree.
The ability to win tackles and to outmuscle the opposition is still a big part of EFL football. That is different from having a “clogger” in midfield who gives away free kicks in dangerous places.
We seem to lose nearly every 50-50 and many 60-40s.
Add to that a total panic in midfield when we receive the ball and quickly pass it to whoever is nearest, regardless of which side they are on, and we keep setting up the opposition.

We've also been unable to chase and win any of these balls back. Instead we stand back and don't commit to a tackle to get it back.

It's as though their midfield has covid and we have to stand 2 metres away from them.

 

[Rudders]

Davies is plenty strong enough and a very clever centre half. He’s definitely who we need. The OP is correct that we just get run over.

If you want a big ugly player, he should be a central midfielder.

I agree with the second part of your post but not convinced with Davies yet. Think there are problems in all areas for us defensively. Will SJ be able to sort them out?
Davies is an upgrade on Robinson granted and Stevens maybe defensively on RND but they are hardly giant leaps forward are they?
CM is where we are so bad its untrue.
Fleck and Norwood offer so little going forward (1 goal only between them and no assists in 21 starts between them). Thats truly fucking woeful, and SJ just doesnt see it. Hourihane has done more attacking wise than both of them combined and he has only started one game.
It's like having 2 tiny slow defensive midfielders in the team who can't defend.
Weird and wrong.
Why not try a big defensive midfielder in there?
McBurnie and Brewster get blasted on here often but it should be Norwood and Fleck getting the ire, as they are the ones consistently taking the piss. They are not going to grow taller or get faster as players are they? They are too comfy and dont work hard enough either to make up for it.