Any hope?

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Wizard

Wizard

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After a brief moment of hope following Wilder's return, the disappointment of dropping 5 points from strong positions in the last two games has led me pretty much accept that we're destined for relegation this year.

However, that's not gonna be very fun for the rest of the season so in an attempt to find some optimism going into the new year I wanted to see if there was any feasible route to survival for us.

I'm assuming we'll get nothing from the Man City game so that would leave us on 9 points after 20 games. A pitiful record that suggests hopelessness might be the correct position to take but I'm not interested in being rational.

So what are some positives? We've shown clear improvement under Wilder. Statistically our performances have been much stronger and we've been much more competitive in games. We kept Brentford, Luton and Villa to under 1xG, Liverpool didn't create too much and we did ok against Chelsea first half. There's 3 weeks until the next league game after City so that gives the players some time to rest, reset and refocus and the coaches have some time on the training ground to tidy up a few things. There's also the possibility that we could bring in a player or two in January to strengthen the first eleven and hopefully our injury situation clears up a little.

A quick look at the past few premier league seasons shows generally between 36-40 points will keep you up. Let's keep being optimistic say this is a year when you need 36 points to stay up. That means 27 points from 18 games or 1.5ppg. A drastic improvement but not unachievable. The possible ways to reach that total are 9 wins = 8 wins + 3 draws = 7 wins + 6 draws = 6 wins + 9 draws = 5 wins + 12 draws. I'd say the most achievable returns from those would be 8+3 or 7+6 so 11 or 13 results from 18 games. Not impossible!

A basic breakdown of our remaining fixtures shows we've got 9 home and 9 away. 3 of the home games are against current bottom half teams (Fulham, Burnley, Forest) as are 6 of the aways (Palace, Luton, Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford, Everton) I'd expect very little from the top half aways (Man Utd, Liverpool, Newcastle) but we've shown we can run those teams close even when we've been rubbish and I could see us picking up some points in those top half home games (West Ham, Villa, Brighton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs).

Is 7 wins and 6 draws really that farfetched from those games? (Yes but that's not the point) Even assuming we lose the 3 top half aways we'd need 13 results from 15 games. Under Wilder I expect us to compete well against most teams and always think a draw is possible, if we can edge out a few wins in Jan/Feb then maybe we've got a chance.
 

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The Great Escape

Lots of speculation on what the total required for survival this year, and whether it wll be a record low. I don't know about that, but assuming 38 pts is the regular benchmark for staying up and an average of 36 pts is usually safe, then we'll need 28-30 more pts! I've gone through the...
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Wizard said:
After a brief moment of hope following Wilder's return, the disappointment of dropping 5 points from strong positions in the last two games has led me pretty much accept that we're destined for relegation this year.

However, that's not gonna be very fun for the rest of the season so in an attempt to find some optimism going into the new year I wanted to see if there was any feasible route to survival for us.

I'm assuming we'll get nothing from the Man City game so that would leave us on 9 points after 20 games. A pitiful record that suggests hopelessness might be the correct position to take but I'm not interested in being rational.

So what are some positives? We've shown clear improvement under Wilder. Statistically our performances have been much stronger and we've been much more competitive in games. We kept Brentford, Luton and Villa to under 1xG, Liverpool didn't create too much and we did ok against Chelsea first half. There's 3 weeks until the next league game after City so that gives the players some time to rest, reset and refocus and the coaches have some time on the training ground to tidy up a few things. There's also the possibility that we could bring in a player or two in January to strengthen the first eleven and hopefully our injury situation clears up a little.

A quick look at the past few premier league seasons shows generally between 36-40 points will keep you up. Let's keep being optimistic say this is a year when you need 36 points to stay up. That means 27 points from 18 games or 1.5ppg. A drastic improvement but not unachievable. The possible ways to reach that total are 9 wins = 8 wins + 3 draws = 7 wins + 6 draws = 6 wins + 9 draws = 5 wins + 12 draws. I'd say the most achievable returns from those would be 8+3 or 7+6 so 11 or 13 results from 18 games. Not impossible!

A basic breakdown of our remaining fixtures shows we've got 9 home and 9 away. 3 of the home games are against current bottom half teams (Fulham, Burnley, Forest) as are 6 of the aways (Palace, Luton, Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford, Everton) I'd expect very little from the top half aways (Man Utd, Liverpool, Newcastle) but we've shown we can run those teams close even when we've been rubbish and I could see us picking up some points in those top half home games (West Ham, Villa, Brighton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs).

Is 7 wins and 6 draws really that farfetched from those games? (Yes but that's not the point) Even assuming we lose the 3 top half aways we'd need 13 results from 15 games. Under Wilder I expect us to compete well against most teams and always think a draw is possible, if we can edge out a few wins in Jan/Feb then maybe we've got a chance.
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Admire your optimism mate, could be possible with roughly 8 more capable players but sadly not with this sack of shite.
 
Wizard said:
After a brief moment of hope following Wilder's return, the disappointment of dropping 5 points from strong positions in the last two games has led me pretty much accept that we're destined for relegation this year.

However, that's not gonna be very fun for the rest of the season so in an attempt to find some optimism going into the new year I wanted to see if there was any feasible route to survival for us.

I'm assuming we'll get nothing from the Man City game so that would leave us on 9 points after 20 games. A pitiful record that suggests hopelessness might be the correct position to take but I'm not interested in being rational.

So what are some positives? We've shown clear improvement under Wilder. Statistically our performances have been much stronger and we've been much more competitive in games. We kept Brentford, Luton and Villa to under 1xG, Liverpool didn't create too much and we did ok against Chelsea first half. There's 3 weeks until the next league game after City so that gives the players some time to rest, reset and refocus and the coaches have some time on the training ground to tidy up a few things. There's also the possibility that we could bring in a player or two in January to strengthen the first eleven and hopefully our injury situation clears up a little.

A quick look at the past few premier league seasons shows generally between 36-40 points will keep you up. Let's keep being optimistic say this is a year when you need 36 points to stay up. That means 27 points from 18 games or 1.5ppg. A drastic improvement but not unachievable. The possible ways to reach that total are 9 wins = 8 wins + 3 draws = 7 wins + 6 draws = 6 wins + 9 draws = 5 wins + 12 draws. I'd say the most achievable returns from those would be 8+3 or 7+6 so 11 or 13 results from 18 games. Not impossible!

A basic breakdown of our remaining fixtures shows we've got 9 home and 9 away. 3 of the home games are against current bottom half teams (Fulham, Burnley, Forest) as are 6 of the aways (Palace, Luton, Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford, Everton) I'd expect very little from the top half aways (Man Utd, Liverpool, Newcastle) but we've shown we can run those teams close even when we've been rubbish and I could see us picking up some points in those top half home games (West Ham, Villa, Brighton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs).

Is 7 wins and 6 draws really that farfetched from those games? (Yes but that's not the point) Even assuming we lose the 3 top half aways we'd need 13 results from 15 games. Under Wilder I expect us to compete well against most teams and always think a draw is possible, if we can edge out a few wins in Jan/Feb then maybe we've got a chance.
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From one wizard to another…

IMG_3257.jpeg
 
We should be 5 points higher and with more hope.

But that's where my "hope" is coming from. Realistically I think we've just got too much to do now but take each game. I want to see the players fighting for each game and see where we get.

It's all we can do, and we must do. Aside from new recruits as well.
 
The way we allowed Luton to put us on the back foot at home in the first half Saturday, and the way we gifted them all 3 goals suggests we haven't really improved since Wilder returned. We had an uplift in the Liverpool game, despite losing, looked more organised at Villa, despite throwing 2 points away and we scraped a win against a very poor Brentford.

if we get away conceding less than 4 Saturday I'll be surprised, and as to the rest of the fixtures all I'm expecting is heaps of disappointment. No way on earth will we get out of the bottom three, we just don't have the levels of skill and mental strength in this squad.
 
Tactically, go out and genuinely try to win every game, and hope for the best. Success looks like battling performances that we can recognise as Sheffield United, where every player leaves everything on the pitch.
Strategically, plan for next season in the Championship. Use the January transfer window to buy a keeper and a centre half, and get the defence focused on getting to know each other so that we can start next season tight at the back. Sort out the contracts of those players we wish to retain - either sign up or fuck off ( in January) - we have no berths for people who don’t want to fight for us.
Identify a game plan to bring some creativity in attack - identify the players we need to implement that plan in the absence of Archer and Mcatee, and start sounding them out in preparation for early action in the summer transfer window.
Get a proper pre-season organised, with emphasis on fitness training.
Tear the Championship a new one.
 
Wizard said:
After a brief moment of hope following Wilder's return, the disappointment of dropping 5 points from strong positions in the last two games has led me pretty much accept that we're destined for relegation this year.

However, that's not gonna be very fun for the rest of the season so in an attempt to find some optimism going into the new year I wanted to see if there was any feasible route to survival for us.

I'm assuming we'll get nothing from the Man City game so that would leave us on 9 points after 20 games. A pitiful record that suggests hopelessness might be the correct position to take but I'm not interested in being rational.

So what are some positives? We've shown clear improvement under Wilder. Statistically our performances have been much stronger and we've been much more competitive in games. We kept Brentford, Luton and Villa to under 1xG, Liverpool didn't create too much and we did ok against Chelsea first half. There's 3 weeks until the next league game after City so that gives the players some time to rest, reset and refocus and the coaches have some time on the training ground to tidy up a few things. There's also the possibility that we could bring in a player or two in January to strengthen the first eleven and hopefully our injury situation clears up a little.

A quick look at the past few premier league seasons shows generally between 36-40 points will keep you up. Let's keep being optimistic say this is a year when you need 36 points to stay up. That means 27 points from 18 games or 1.5ppg. A drastic improvement but not unachievable. The possible ways to reach that total are 9 wins = 8 wins + 3 draws = 7 wins + 6 draws = 6 wins + 9 draws = 5 wins + 12 draws. I'd say the most achievable returns from those would be 8+3 or 7+6 so 11 or 13 results from 18 games. Not impossible!

A basic breakdown of our remaining fixtures shows we've got 9 home and 9 away. 3 of the home games are against current bottom half teams (Fulham, Burnley, Forest) as are 6 of the aways (Palace, Luton, Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford, Everton) I'd expect very little from the top half aways (Man Utd, Liverpool, Newcastle) but we've shown we can run those teams close even when we've been rubbish and I could see us picking up some points in those top half home games (West Ham, Villa, Brighton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs).

Is 7 wins and 6 draws really that farfetched from those games? (Yes but that's not the point) Even assuming we lose the 3 top half aways we'd need 13 results from 15 games. Under Wilder I expect us to compete well against most teams and always think a draw is possible, if we can edge out a few wins in Jan/Feb then maybe we've got a chance.
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Whilst nothing is impossible.. it's the hope that kills you.
 
If Luton can win a game 3-2 they never created a single goal scoring opportunity from then yeah anythings possible
 
Watching Arsenal v WH this evening gave me some hope. The current obsession with tippy tappy slow slow, quick, slow slow build up means that tight, well organised defences can hold out against most sides. If we remain disciplined in defence and aggressive and ambitious in attack we may cause some upsets, make games an enjoyable watch and piss off some of the big shots. Brighton flew at Spurs and they couldn’t handle it. I simply cannot see us staying up but we can have some fun along the way whilst trying to sort out who we want to build into a team that can challenge next season.
UTB
 
Sorry to say but sick of hearing about this tippy tappy football.
It's a mix of both that gets results .
Any blade who didn't enjoy the Bassett era where we had a good mixture and got results against the likes of Liverpool and man utd on a regular basis and could compete with anyone , we had what we need now , a deane and agana upfront , pace power and both could score and frightened defences to death .
Wimbledon won the f a . Cup by playing to their strengths , we've won bugger all in 100 years.
 

When I first left school I used to work on the tools and there was a lad in his 20s that they all called Castleton. At first I thought it wwas his real name so just called it him and got on with it, until one day in the mess room.....

'You do know why he's called f**kin castleton don't you??...... (shrug of my shoulders).....

Because he's beyond f*?kin Hope"........
 
No hope … none … I fully expect a thrashing tomorrow and performance similar to under PH.

Too many players not bothered and not good enough for the level.

I’d rather we play the youngsters as I like brooks etc. I could get behind that.
 
loveWalrusDaveTheBlade said:
Tactically, go out and genuinely try to win every game, and hope for the best. Success looks like battling performances that we can recognise as Sheffield United, where every player leaves everything on the pitch.
Strategically, plan for next season in the Championship. Use the January transfer window to buy a keeper and a centre half, and get the defence focused on getting to know each other so that we can start next season tight at the back. Sort out the contracts of those players we wish to retain - either sign up or fuck off ( in January) - we have no berths for people who don’t want to fight for us.
Identify a game plan to bring some creativity in attack - identify the players we need to implement that plan in the absence of Archer and Mcatee, and start sounding them out in preparation for early action in the summer transfer window.
Get a proper pre-season organised, with emphasis on fitness training.
Tear the Championship a new one.
Click to expand...
Who would you want to keep?
 
This season is a write off, but next season worries me more. As things stand at the moment we'll be heading into next season with barely any of the current squad and no money to bring in new players. A squad full of kids, frees, loans and has beens.
 
I’m all for positivity but I can’t see us finishing above one team never mind three. It’s about being less embarrassing from now on and hopefully going down with something to build on next season.
 
On a positive note the Prince has done another YouTube video, but I think you have to subscribe to watch it right now.
 
Jan Age said:
Who would you want to keep?
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Of those whose contracts are up next summer, I would want to keep Baldock, Robinson and McBurnie, on the proviso that they sign on the assumption of a reasonable Championship salary for next season, and that they sign early in the window.
Of our current loanees, I would send Thomas back in this window, and keep the others for the rest of this season ( Larouchi only so that Wilder and Knill can have a proper look at him - he has some excellent natural assets but I’m not sure how much development headroom is in him).
 
We cannot hold onto any sort of points. Forest, last minute 1 point gone, city last minute,1 point gone, spurs, injury time 3 points gone, wolves almost blew that in the last minute but got away with it with a terrible penalty call, villa, injury time 1 point gone, Luton, winning, fully thrown away 3 points. Aside from that throw the Newcastle, arsenal, Burnley and Bournemouth games in. Its not just the fact we are so inferior talent wise, The mental attitude and game management is truly atrocious within the squad.
 
Overthehills said:
When I first left school I used to work on the tools and there was a lad in his 20s that they all called Castleton. At first I thought it wwas his real name so just called it him and got on with it, until one day in the mess room.....

'You do know why he's called f**kin castleton don't you??...... (shrug of my shoulders).....

Because he's beyond f*?kin Hope"........
Click to expand...
Did you ever get sent to the stores for a long stand ?
 
Can we survive? Oh yeah. So I'll begin with the positives before the unfortunate realities. We do look better lately although it has been pointed out we have stupidly thrown away points, very vital ones at that but we have a transfer window coming and if anyone can make some decent changes with fuck all money it's Wilder. Give him a budget and he signs some right flops. So, the optimist in me wants to think yeah, maybe we'll pick up some results now.

The unfortunately reality now is the order is tall, very tall and I think no matter what we do we will need to rely on teams around us to do even poorly and considering the way we apparently like to throw points away I'm not so confident

But it is possible so for the next half of the season why not have a teeny tiny bit of hope eh?
 
No Hope and Slim Hope!
And Slim was seen saddling his horses up to ride out of town after the Luton result
 
No hope whatsoever.

The bottom three are nailed on to be relegated.

There's no other teams anywhere near as poor on a consistent basis. Any time a team starts to drop close, they pick up good results and move away. I don't see any team dropping that badly or any of the bottom three improving.
 
Davalon said:
No hope whatsoever.

The bottom three are nailed on to be relegated.

There's no other teams anywhere near as poor on a consistent basis. Any time a team starts to drop close, they pick up good results and move away. I don't see any team dropping that badly or any of the bottom three improving.
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Only hope is (although I don't know if I want them in our league) is that Forest get relegated instead of Luton, which could happen.

Wilder has a contract through till 2025, it will be interesting if we don't go up at the 1st time of asking, noting if the season in the Championship finished now we would have at least 2 from Leeds, Southampton or West Brom on top of Burnley, Luton/Forest and us for the top 2 and playoff winners. If Wilder doesn't get us up in 2024/25 is that time up or is it season dependent, it is a short contract in some ways.
 

Absolutely No chance . This season has been a total disaster! Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong! And it will continue! The Princes rein has become a total joke. And a really bad one!
 
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