Antwoine Hackford

[Yogi]

Brunt came to mind, Ndiaye another maybe. Cant we get RND back off his loan too? Seems crazy hes elsewhere ATM.

Ndiaye maybe can’t say I know where he’s fit into the side unlike brunt who you could give minutes too in centremid. I think RND really depends on whether wilder wants to persist with Stevens or ship him out. If Stevens leaves then I’d bring RND back and let him and Lowe battle it out. I can’t see wilder leaving Stevens out for long periods if he’s still at the club though and no point bringing RND back from playing every week to sit him on the bench. I’d like to see RND though and believe we should move on from Stevens either now or in the summer.

 

[1987]

Ndiaye maybe can’t say I know where he’s fit into the side unlike brunt who you could give minutes too in centremid. I think RND really depends on whether wilder wants to persist with Stevens or ship him out. If Stevens leaves then I’d bring RND back and let him and Lowe battle it out. I can’t see wilder leaving Stevens out for long periods if he’s still at the club though and no point bringing RND back from playing every week to sit him on the bench. I’d like to see RND though and believe we should move on from Stevens either now or in the summer.

Yeah good post. We are just so unbelievably bad that it doesnt make sense sticking with players like Stevens right now (at LB). Just give the minutes to Lowe or RND and definitely give some minutes to those like Brunt. If we do that and get then comfortable then at least we will have salvaged something from this season.

 

[Yogi]

Yeah good post. We are just so unbelievably bad that it doesnt make sense sticking with players like Stevens right now (at LB). Just give the minutes to Lowe or RND and definitely give some minutes to those like Brunt. If we do that and get then comfortable then at least we will have salvaged something from this season.

From wilders point of view it does make sense to stick with them if the transfer policy is still a couple of loans because a couple of players doesn’t allow the flexibility in terms of numbers to move out a lot of this aging core.

However if the rebuild starts now then yeah move a few of the older players who aren’t performing out. Bring in some players in their early to mid 20s in the spine of the team to start to build around and offer the occasional cameo and bench time to the leading academy players. I wouldn’t start any and maybe rotate which ones are in the match day squad so it’s not too much too soon but get them used to the first team environment and see if any can impress in training and cameos enough to stake a claim to be squad players next year. It’s highly unlikely any will be ready to be starters next year even brooks wasn’t but they might be able to get themselves a squad place.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Brunt would’ve been my picked out of all of them based on what he’s doing for the u23s. There won’t be any more like Hackford to be playing u23s football at 16 is astounding to make you’re senior debut is incredible and to do that in the prem is almost impossible so hats off to the lad. But we don’t have a group of Hackford’s but there are some players who might make it as pros.

Both Antwoine & Frankie Maguire were 15 when they made their U23 debuts

 

[Yogi]

Both Antwoine & Frankie Maguire were 15 when they made their U23 debuts

That truly is exceptional and a great achievement by both. Obviously Hackford has surpassed that by making his senior debut and hopefully Maguire will too in the coming years. I seem to remember Maguire getting a guardian puff piece last year as being our best prospect when they did a whole league run through. From what I’ve heard said he’s an industrious centremid but I’d be interested to know your opinion on what type of player he is Phil.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Tend to agree. Not sure how many are genuinely close though?

To be honest, I don’t know if that matters much now. The arrogance of youth maybe what we need to start taking risks.

 

[S64 Blade]

Brunt came to mind, Ndiaye another maybe. Cant we get RND back off his loan too? Seems crazy hes elsewhere ATM.

Agree on Brunt. Midfield is without a doubt our Achilles heel at the moment, any extra competition and spark there is most welcomed. He can’t be any worse than Fleck and Norwood have become.

 

[Trigger Blade]

And he’s not United’s youngest ever player

He’s United’s youngest ever PL player, which is admittedly a narrower field, but still quite something.

I wondered when he came on whether he’ll become a DCL (and I would never have predicted that after the night match at Bury) or a Jordan Slew (football wise, rather than speed limit breaking notoriety).

 

[corner_flag]

I hope someone mature is mentoring this lad VERY closely.

Premier league exposure at 16, living in his home town, he will be attracting a posse of hangers on who want to share his glamour and wealth but don't really care about him.

Plenty of potential for things to go really badly wrong for him. Sounds like he has a strong supportive family, but it's hard enough to guide any lad safely through these late teenage years, never mind with the additional challenges of too much money and being surrounded by a crowd of hero worshipping idiots

 

[Nick Jansky]

I hope someone mature is mentoring this lad VERY closely.

Premier league exposure at 16, living in his home town, he will be attracting a posse of hangers on who want to share his glamour and wealth but don't really care about him.

Plenty of potential for things to go really badly wrong for him. Sounds like he has a strong supportive family, but it's hard enough to guide any lad safely through these late teenage years, never mind with the additional challenges of too much money and being surrounded by a crowd of hero worshipping idiots

As well as his family he has a really good bunch of friends and a very good head on his young shoulders so I don’t see that as being too much of an issue. A bigger issue will be how his development is handled from here. The last thing he needs at 16 is having the pressure to be our saviour dumped on him. We can be excited but also have to be patient.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

Oh we ain't got a barrel of money, but we've got Antion, Anton, we've got Antiwon, we've got Rammers and Didzy...

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I honestly think the young acquisitions that Wilder has brought in, will rip it up in the Championship. If we do get promoted again next season with much younger team, that is full of confidence and a lot more potential to improve in the Premier league. I think the club will be on a much sounder footing.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

That truly is exceptional and a great achievement by both. Obviously Hackford has surpassed that by making his senior debut and hopefully Maguire will too in the coming years. I seem to remember Maguire getting a guardian puff piece last year as being our best prospect when they did a whole league run through. From what I’ve heard said he’s an industrious centremid but I’d be interested to know your opinion on what type of player he is Phil.

Obviously, it's increasingly difficult to comment on Academy players, given we can't see them play live. And, I will make the point that Academy players tend not to be typecast nor shoehorned into a particular position. Indeed, under "previous regimes" there was a deliberate policy of playing them out of position occasionally. To put them under pressure. To see how they cope. To see what they've got. But, yes, Maguire is usually midfield. I saw (past tense) him as a cover a lot of ground, keep the engine running, get the ball, give the ball, drive on midfielder.

Incidentally, I was debating the other day, remote fans will tend to know about those Academy Lads who feature on the highlights reel. The goals. The set pieces. The assists. The Brunts. The Ayaris. Whereas those who were (fucking past tense again) able to watch games live often tend to know more about the midfielders, the wingbacks. The players who have the ball a lot, who the play goes through. Me, personally, over the years, love an Academy midfielder....

 

[Yogi]

Obviously, it's increasingly difficult to comment on Academy players, given we can't see them play live. And, I will make the point that Academy players tend not to be typecast nor shoehorned into a particular position. Indeed, under "previous regimes" there was a deliberate policy of playing them out of position occasionally. To put them under pressure. To see how they cope. To see what they've got. But, yes, Maguire is usually midfield. I saw (past tense) him as a cover a lot of ground, keep the engine running, get the ball, give the ball, drive on midfielder.

Incidentally, I was debating the other day, remote fans will tend to know about those Academy Lads who feature on the highlights reel. The goals. The set pieces. The assists. The Brunts. The Ayaris. Whereas those who were (fucking past tense again) able to watch games live often tend to know more about the midfielders, the wingbacks. The players who have the ball a lot, who the play goes through. Me, personally, over the years, love an Academy midfielder....

Interesting hopefully he keeps progressing and developing I think there will certainly be at least a squad position opening in that area over the coming years for maybe him or brunt or slater to stake a claim for.

I think it’s due to how we report football in general we make a lot of stats like goals and assists and not passes completed, tackles made, ground covered and blocks made. So in fairness if you’re not at the game the headline stats are all you’ve got to go on. It’s been a while since we’ve produced a centre mid Louie reed and dimaio being the last two.

 

[BushBlade]

Interesting hopefully he keeps progressing and developing I think there will certainly be at least a squad position opening in that area over the coming years for maybe him or brunt or slater to stake a claim for.

I think it’s due to how we report football in general we make a lot of stats like goals and assists and not passes completed, tackles made, ground covered and blocks made. So in fairness if you’re not at the game the headline stats are all you’ve got to go on. It’s been a while since we’ve produced a centre mid Louie reed and dimaio being the last two.

Ben Whitehead was the most recent and the most successful.

 

[Yogi]

Ben Whitehead was the most recent and the most successful.

That’s true can’t believe I forgot about him.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Interesting hopefully he keeps progressing and developing I think there will certainly be at least a squad position opening in that area over the coming years for maybe him or brunt or slater to stake a claim for.

I think it’s due to how we report football in general we make a lot of stats like goals and assists and not passes completed, tackles made, ground covered and blocks made. So in fairness if you’re not at the game the headline stats are all you’ve got to go on. It’s been a while since we’ve produced a centre mid Louie reed and dimaio being the last two.

As an aside, these sorts of debate make me realise how little I know about "modern football". I have no skills which distinguish different types of midfield player. tbh, I wouldn't even be able to list the terms, let alone define them. It's all midfield to me. Centre attacking. Defensive. Etcetera Midfield. I'm sure they all exist. But, it draws a blank for me. (Not critical of anyone who does use those terms btw, in fact the opposite, I admire them for trying). Just an example of how we all relate to football in different ways. Goalie. Defender. Out Wide. Midfielder. Striker.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Ben Whitehead was the most recent and the most successful.

(Another example) Ben Whitehead often played Centre Back as he progressed through our Academy. Regan Slater & Harvey Gilmour formed a great midfield partnership at Academy level. Last time I looked, Harvey was at Stockport

 

[Yogi]

As an aside, these sorts of debate make me realise how little I know about "modern football". I have no skills which distinguish different types of midfield player. tbh, I wouldn't even be able to list the terms, let alone define them. It's all midfield to me. Centre attacking. Defensive. Etcetera Midfield. I'm sure they all exist. But, it draws a blank for me. (Not critical of anyone who does use those terms btw, in fact the opposite, I admire them for trying). Just an example of how we all relate to football in different ways. Goalie. Defender. Out Wide. Midfielder. Striker.

I think ideally a midfielder should be able to do it all. I think it comes down to a players limitations though to play further up the pitch you have to be better in tight spaces and further back you need to have a great engine and be good in the tackle. The 10 position isn’t really a midfielder in my option nor is it a striker it’s it’s own category as the skills set required is so diverse from either. I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks about how we have A couple of unorthodox almost position less players at the club. Basham doesn’t fit into any orthodox position imo and Didzy the same.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I think ideally a midfielder should be able to do it all. I think it comes down to a players limitations though to play further up the pitch you have to be better in tight spaces and further back you need to have a great engine and be good in the tackle. The 10 position isn’t really a midfielder in my option nor is it a striker it’s it’s own category as the skills set required is so diverse from either. I’ve been thinking over the last few weeks about how we have A couple of unorthodox almost position less players at the club. Basham doesn’t fit into any orthodox position imo and Didzy the same.

I worry that football, particularly in the Premier League is too choreographed. The coaches stand on the side, putting up 1, 2 or 3 fingers constantly & making a stirring the pot circular motion. They must have to lift weights all week to be able to cope for 90 minutes. To me it looks like 5 minutes of football, then disrupt.yourself for the next 85. I don't view myself as a Dinosaur (wink, am) - I know we have to have all that shit. But, players can play, put the batteries in, switch on. I was (that pesky tense) lucky enough to be able to go to watch a number of games live, at different levels, including different Utd sides. In my opinion, the further down the system you go, the more it's just about the players, doing their stuff - or as we call it ball of the foot.

 

[Bert]

As an aside, these sorts of debate make me realise how little I know about "modern football". I have no skills which distinguish different types of midfield player. tbh, I wouldn't even be able to list the terms, let alone define them. It's all midfield to me. Centre attacking. Defensive. Etcetera Midfield. I'm sure they all exist. But, it draws a blank for me. (Not critical of anyone who does use those terms btw, in fact the opposite, I admire them for trying). Just an example of how we all relate to football in different ways. Goalie. Defender. Out Wide. Midfielder. Striker.

They're all half backs to Bert.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

They're all half backs to Bert.

Is the correct answer......

 

[Yogi]

I worry that football, particularly in the Premier League is too choreographed. The coaches stand on the side, putting up 1, 2 or 3 fingers constantly & making a stirring the pot circular motion. They must have to lift weights all week to be able to cope for 90 minutes. To me it looks like 5 minutes of football, then disrupt.yourself for the next 85. I don't view myself as a Dinosaur (wink, am) - I know we have to have all that shit. But, players can play, put the batteries in, switch on. I was (that pesky tense) lucky enough to be able to go to watch a number of games live, at different levels, including different Utd sides. In my opinion, the further down the system you go, the more it's just about the players, doing their stuff - or as we call it ball of the foot.

I’d agree it definitely is the lower down you go the less instruction there is. If I was going to try and understand why I’d say that each level of competition you move up the greater the difficulty of opposition players. For example if you’re an exceptional 16 year old playing others of your age group then I’d imagine most weeks you can just go out there and take the piss no matter what (which is why moving them up early is a good thing imo). However playing against other pros especially at the top level the margins will be so fine that you take any advantage you can get. So if the staff have notice a player favouring one side or making a slight mistake in his positioning or press then that will be communicated ASAP as it could give their player the half a yard advantage which could make all the difference. Ultimately a youth coach shouldn’t be judged on results but on the development of the players in his charge so letting the figure it out is probably good for his job prospects. Whereas a first team staff are judged on their results and so will try to gain an advantage by any means available.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I’d agree it definitely is the lower down you go the less instruction there is. If I was going to try and understand why I’d say that each level of competition you move up the greater the difficulty of opposition players. For example if you’re an exceptional 16 year old playing others of your age group then I’d imagine most weeks you can just go out there and take the piss no matter what (which is why moving them up early is a good thing imo). However playing against other pros especially at the top level the margins will be so fine that you take any advantage you can get. So if the staff have notice a player favouring one side or making a slight mistake in his positioning or press then that will be communicated ASAP as it could give their player the half a yard advantage which could make all the difference. Ultimately a youth coach shouldn’t be judged on results but on the development of the players in his charge so letting the figure it out is probably good for his job prospects. Whereas a first team staff are judged on their results and so will try to gain an advantage by any means available.

Interestingly, one of the things I've seen at Academy Games is one player, one of the more experienced, but who is not playing that day, take control of the team. While Del Geary stays quiet at the side, taking a watching brief. The "coach of the day" runs them through the warm up, sits on the bench with a clipboard making notes, & gives them the debrief & new instructions at half time. Very interesting to watch.

 

[Yogi]

Interestingly, one of the things I've seen at Academy Games is one player, one of the more experienced, but who is not playing that day, take control of the team. While Del Geary stays quiet at the side, taking a watching brief. The "coach of the day" runs them through the warm up, sits on the bench with a clipboard making notes, & gives them the debrief & new instructions at half time. Very interesting to watch.

That is quite interesting. You could definitely see how it could benefit the players though. Will help them to understand the whole game not just their play as they have responsibility for the team. Builds leadership qualities and experience. Also gives them a taste of coaching and a view into another pathway for a future in the game as it’s likely most won’t become pros.

 

[Jon B]

Hope he gets a few more chances and stays in and around the squad, it will help him massively rubbing shoulders with top players week in week out....

imagine been 16 and in around the environment of, Aguero, Aubameyang, vardy, salah etc

It certainly will.

For instance, I hope he took note of how, when Bash backheeled the ball to him, his nearest teammate cleverly tripped himself up and fell on his arse at the edge of the six yard area thus distracting the Palace defence through laughing at him.

Picking up that sort of trick will help Antwoine enormously.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Interestingly, one of the things I've seen at Academy Games is one player, one of the more experienced, but who is not playing that day, take control of the team. While Del Geary stays quiet at the side, taking a watching brief. The "coach of the day" runs them through the warm up, sits on the bench with a clipboard making notes, & gives them the debrief & new instructions at half time. Very interesting to watch.

Also, I was once at Bristol City away with the U23s. (Sat behind the dug out). Harvey Gilmour got a dead leg type injury thing early in the second half, came off, put the coat on & sat on the bench. He couldn't help himself, shouting encouragement & instructions & staying involved. You could almost see Travis Binnion think - alright then Young 'Un, if that's what you're up to, let's see it - Travis sat back & let Harvey become the de facto coach. Again, very interesting dynamic.

 

[Silent Blade]

Apologies, Hacky is younger than Trenton was. Wiggan was 16y 328d old, made his debut in ‘79

Trenton's debut was in the League Cup. His League debut was much later.

 

[Silent Blade]

Ben Whitehead was the most recent and the most successful.

(Another example) Ben Whitehead often played Centre Back as he progressed through our Academy. Regan Slater & Harvey Gilmour formed a great midfield partnership at Academy level. Last time I looked, Harvey was at Stockport

Whitehead? You mean Whiteman?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Whitehead? You mean Whiteman?

FFS yeah - him an' all....