Another VAR debate…..

[Grey Blade]

It was a penalty in the last minute soft or not. There was contact. The poor decision for me was not sending Vinicius off. If the Wolves player had pretended to be injured it would have been a nailed on red. It rewards playacting.

Credit to the Wolves playing for not going down. Most players would have and I can see why they do in an incident like that.

What they need to do is to punish the diving , rolling around and clutching a part of their body that hasn't been touched.

If we didn't have extensive TV coverage with every incident being shown in slow motion from different angles, we wouldn't be able to question decisions. We're stuck with the TV coverage but I would like to see it being used to punish blatant cheating - retrospectively as games last long enough as it is.

 

[mattbianco1]

What about fairness and consistency in all the other rounds then,?

 

[Grey Blade]

What about fairness and consistency in all the other rounds then,?

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To have var at Premier league grounds in the FA Cup and not at EFL grounds is ridiculous

 

[Booker4]

As Wilder said, have it for hand of God goals and nowt more. If they changed it that offsides should be only overruled from the on field linesman's decision unless it was daylight between players than that would help. That's the most annoying aspect for me.

 

[Champagneblade]

VAR has never been the problem.

Using technology to reduce human error is a logical progression especially when so much money is now at stake.

Where tech can be used why not?

• put a microchip in the ball. Therefore avoid issues with the ball being out or not. Also use similar tech to make it very clear who touched the ball last when it went out of play. A simple red or blue light can confirm this.
• use goal line tech for similar. Yes we were the victim of its failure but there should be a contingency for this. Either way it is more accurate than makes eye.

But then get to the real issue. The real issue is those that use it.

Make a clear threshold for intervention. It’s clear to me the clear and obvious vs re-reffing the game is very blurred.

Also sort out the handball rule and stick to it!

 

[b1ade4life]

VAR has never been the problem.

Using technology to reduce human error is a logical progression especially when so much money is now at stake.

Where tech can be used why not?

• put a microchip in the ball. Therefore avoid issues with the ball being out or not. Also use similar tech to make it very clear who touched the ball last when it went out of play. A simple red or blue light can confirm this.
• use goal line tech for similar. Yes we were the victim of its failure but there should be a contingency for this. Either way it is more accurate than makes eye.

But then get to the real issue. The real issue is those that use it.

Make a clear threshold for intervention. It’s clear to me the clear and obvious vs re-reffing the game is very blurred.

Also sort out the handball rule and stick to it!

Agree..... We had shit refs pre VAR, we now have shit refs who are under more scrutiny and pressure and are buckling under it

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Make a clear threshold for intervention. It’s clear to me the clear and obvious vs re-reffing the game is very blurred.

Also sort out the handball rule and stick to it!

This is one one the biggest problems.
What are the thresholds they are working to?
If you get a touch and fall down, it's the same issue, whether VAR views it or the ref. How much is too much? It varies vastly.

Add to that, their refusal to intervene with simple stuff that is hugely obvious, eg a corner decision that the ref just couldn't see. That can be a game changer in some matches.

Having said all that, I'd scrap it until it can be implemented properly. It's been in place for years and is still a game spoiler.

 

[Edinblade]

Problem is not VAR but with the incompetent people working it. With so many pathetic cheats playing who constantly dive in the area, refs need to have help. You can guarantee that when particularly Man U and many others play without VAR they will get at least one penalty.

 

[Billyblade]

The referees have stopped giving a lot of decisions now. They'd rather wait for the ball to go dead and let VAR sort it out.

The Linesm... (sorry, Referees assistants which is a joke in itself) don't give many offsides until the ball is dead. If the move breaks down without consequence, the flag goes up. If a goal is scored, the flag stays down and VAR sorts it out.

There are passages of play happening that shouldn't. The game carries on unnecessarily waiting for the ball to go dead and a token decision to be given. Someone is going to get seriously injured in one of these passages of play that shouldn't have happened which will be a travesty.

VAR is a great addition if used correctly. When all's said and done, it stands for Video Assistant Referee. The emphasis being on 'Assistant'. It was never supposed to referee a match, it is supposed to assist the match officials and only correct clear and obvious errors. We shouldn't be drawing lines on the pitch and taking 4 minutes to conclude that someone's pube is offside.

Money is the root of all this. The Premier League shit themselves about upsetting the big boys and will do everything in their power to get protected. VAR over analysing stuff reduces the risk of somebody taking legal action against an on-field decision.

It's a game for fucks sake and I for one would like it back.

 

[scouseblade]

VAR needs to stop re-reffing the game. I am sick of ref being called over to the monitor and changing their mind. Why? What is it that makes 99% of the decisions alter? The Calvert-Lewin red was a good example. Ref sees it clearly in normal speed during the height of the game but when its sloooooowed down it is always going to look worse. The men at Stockley Park are not suppose to ref the game. they are suppose to point out glaringly obvious errors......

 

[dsr-burnley]

What about fairness and consistency in all the other rounds then,?

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I don't see why it's a problem having VAR at some grounds and not others. I agree that having VAR at Everton's match with Palace was unfair on Everton, but I don't see why Everton having a man wrongly sent off is unfair on, say, yourselves or Maidstone United.

The point of refereeing is that each match should be refereed to the best available standard. (We'll leave aside the question whether having VAR leads to the "best available standard".) By definition, some matches will be better refereed than others because some referees are better than others. Do they tell the good refs to make a few mistakes because otherwise it's not fair or consistent?

 

[mattbianco1]

I don't see why it's a problem having VAR at some grounds and not others. I agree that having VAR at Everton's match with Palace was unfair on Everton, but I don't see why Everton having a man wrongly sent off is unfair on, say, yourselves or Maidstone United.

The point of refereeing is that each match should be refereed to the best available standard. (We'll leave aside the question whether having VAR leads to the "best available standard".) By definition, some matches will be better refereed than others because some referees are better than others. Do they tell the good refs to make a few mistakes because otherwise it's not fair or consistent?

It unbalances it all.

If you play Blackburn in the cup at home, you have VAR. If you play them away, you don't.
The game could pan out exactly the same but the results could be different.
A team could score an offside goal that the linesman thinks was onside. That goal would be ruled out at Turf Moor, but would stand at Ewood Park.

If you lost 1-0 at Ewood Park, knowing that if the tie was at home you would have drawn 0-0, you'd be pretty pissed off.

Same competition, different rules - doesn't sit right for me

 

[MobileBlade]

A team could score an offside goal that the linesman thinks was onside. That goal would be ruled out at Turf Moor, but would stand at Ewood Park.

You have to draw a line somewhere

 

[jono_t2000]

VAR has never been the problem.

Using technology to reduce human error is a logical progression especially when so much money is now at stake.

Where tech can be used why not?

• put a microchip in the ball. Therefore avoid issues with the ball being out or not. Also use similar tech to make it very clear who touched the ball last when it went out of play. A simple red or blue light can confirm this.
• use goal line tech for similar. Yes we were the victim of its failure but there should be a contingency for this. Either way it is more accurate than makes eye.

But then get to the real issue. The real issue is those that use it.

Make a clear threshold for intervention. It’s clear to me the clear and obvious vs re-reffing the game is very blurred.

Also sort out the handball rule and stick to it!

Could even use microchips in end of boots to determine offsides.

Yes people will moan, what about arms, shoulders so on.. but if they make a decision that offsides is by the front of the boot and no other body part is included I'm sure the majority would be fine with it.

Just like in union/league, only your feet have to be behind the 10 yards but ur allowed to lean forward.

 

[mattbianco1]

You have to draw a line somewhere

Exactly.
My line would be - No VAR until all remaining teams in the competition have it.

They've scrapped it in the League Cup Semis because Boro have made it. What's special about the Semi's and not Round 2 or 3?

Without looking into it, I guarantee, teams have progressed due to a dodgy VAR decision. Teams will also have progressed due to VAR correctly ruling out a decision. For me that's not fair. It's the same competition so rules should be the same for everybody.

 

[MobileBlade]

Exactly.
My line would be - No VAR until all remaining teams in the competition have it.

They've scrapped it in the League Cup Semis because Boro have made it. What's special about the Semi's and not Round 2 or 3?

Without looking into it, I guarantee, teams have progressed due to a dodgy VAR decision. Teams will also have progressed due to VAR correctly ruling out a decision. For me that's not fair. It's the same competition so rules should be the same for everybody.

I was being sarcastic about the offside and var

 

[dsr-burnley]

It unbalances it all.

If you play Blackburn in the cup at home, you have VAR. If you play them away, you don't.
The game could pan out exactly the same but the results could be different.
A team could score an offside goal that the linesman thinks was onside. That goal would be ruled out at Turf Moor, but would stand at Ewood Park.

If you lost 1-0 at Ewood Park, knowing that if the tie was at home you would have drawn 0-0, you'd be pretty pissed off.

Same competition, different rules - doesn't sit right for me

Well, there is the difficulty about Championship offside being in effect different rules from Premier League offside, because in the Championship "level" does not mean to the quarter-inch. And (as Calvert-Lewin found out) the margins for a red card tackle in the PL are so much tighter than when there is no VAR.

But it's the same for both sides. That's the point. It seems silly that (if we accept that VAR makes refereeing better, which is highly dubious) they would deliberately reduce the standard of refereeing at three of League Cup ties. I can't for the life of me see how it is unfair to Liverpool or Fulham that their referee is better than the one for Middlesbrough and Chelsea.

 

[Chimpan-A]

Could even use microchips in end of boots to determine offsides.

Yes people will moan, what about arms, shoulders so on.. but if they make a decision that offsides is by the front of the boot and no other body part is included I'm sure the majority would be fine with it.

Just like in union/league, only your feet have to be behind the 10 yards but ur allowed to lean forward.

I like the idea. Would have to be some robust tech though, placed on the bit of the player that does all the kicking!

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Worked in favour of Luton tonite in added time for the equaliser.

 

[Snowflake]

Worked in favour of Luton tonite in added time for the equaliser.

Correctly I think.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Correctly I think.

Yep me too.

 

[Bladesman]

 

[UddersBlade]

In my view correct decision that the goal was given.

The really funny thing is the fact that Burnley’s owner & then Kompany publically are ‘crying’ so much about it! I think Kompany is an average manager who is now struggling - he has no plan B. Last season he had a team with enough firepower to blow championship teams away. This season he’s tried to play the same way and has been found out. He is also struggling as he is no longer as much of the ‘media darling’…..that strangely appears to be Luton. The owner is now panicking as we all know that Burnley will be in a financial mess if relegated.

I am pretty confident that we will finish above Burnley - unfortunately 2nd bottom though!

 

[The Crab]

VAR needs to stop re-reffing the game. I am sick of ref being called over to the monitor and changing their mind. Why? What is it that makes 99% of the decisions alter? The Calvert-Lewin red was a good example. Ref sees it clearly in normal speed during the height of the game but when its sloooooowed down it is always going to look worse. The men at Stockley Park are not suppose to ref the game. they are suppose to point out glaringly obvious errors......

Seems to me the going over to the screen bit is part of the pantomime. It’s saying to the ref “you’re wrong” which is why they almost always change their mind, it’s changed before they get to the monitor.

 

[The Crab]

In my view correct decision that the goal was given.

The really funny thing is the fact that Burnley’s owner & then Kompany publically are ‘crying’ so much about it! I think Kompany is an average manager who is now struggling - he has no plan B. Last season he had a team with enough firepower to blow championship teams away. This season he’s tried to play the same way and has been found out. He is also struggling as he is no longer as much of the ‘media darling’…..that strangely appears to be Luton. The owner is now panicking as we all know that Burnley will be in a financial mess if relegated.

I am pretty confident that we will finish above Burnley - unfortunately 2nd bottom though!

Kompany is basically Hecky but has played at the very top level. He’s been cut the slack he has because he’s Vincent Kompany

 

[Bladeinleeds]

In my view correct decision that the goal was given.

The really funny thing is the fact that Burnley’s owner & then Kompany publically are ‘crying’ so much about it! I think Kompany is an average manager who is now struggling - he has no plan B. Last season he had a team with enough firepower to blow championship teams away. This season he’s tried to play the same way and has been found out. He is also struggling as he is no longer as much of the ‘media darling’…..that strangely appears to be Luton. The owner is now panicking as we all know that Burnley will be in a financial mess if relegated.

I am pretty confident that we will finish above Burnley - unfortunately 2nd bottom though!

Got to say when I saw all the fuss about that goal last night I thought it would have been clear cut. And fair enough you might have seen them given but it didn’t look a foul to me - just good forward play. And the sort of stuff sharp was brilliant at.

Can say hand on heart that if Wes had come out and been that weak - he’d be getting slaughter in here. 10% Foul and 90% keeper is too weak for me.

Mentioned above - kompany on the lampard path. Played at the top, respectful to journos so basically immune from questions been asked about the 120m+ he spent in the summer and his results.

Got to say fair play to Luton though. Have a style and an identity and do what they do well. Making a good go of things despite being the only side with probably less resources than us. Giving sides a game.
Edwards seems a bright young manager and they have overcome adversity with Lockyer also.

 

[Blademan89]

Kompany is basically Hecky but has played at the very top level. He’s been cut the slack he has because he’s Vincent Kompany

He's probably worse than hecky, as Burnley was given a budget in summer and didn't sell their 2 most important players 1 week before start if the season. He also inherited a good youthful squad with Burnley.

Only difference is Kompany tried to play attacking football and hecky tried playing safety first. Both tactically inept.

 

[Grey Blade]

In my view correct decision that the goal was given.

The really funny thing is the fact that Burnley’s owner & then Kompany publically are ‘crying’ so much about it! I think Kompany is an average manager who is now struggling - he has no plan B. Last season he had a team with enough firepower to blow championship teams away. This season he’s tried to play the same way and has been found out. He is also struggling as he is no longer as much of the ‘media darling’…..that strangely appears to be Luton. The owner is now panicking as we all know that Burnley will be in a financial mess if relegated.

I thought it was the correct decision. This season all manner of body checks and holding seem to be allowed in open play so why should this be any different?The Luton player was only standing there and Trafford should have been stronger

 

[finlaytheblade]

I thought it was the correct decision. This season all manner of body checks and holding seem to be allowed in open play so why should this be any different?The Luton player was only standing there and Trafford should have been stronger

Think there's more too it than that.From what I saw it was a case of deliberately blocking off.As the goalie stepped out he just moved slightly to his right so blocking him off.Its a tactic used a lot and many a time got away with.
It seems to me Luton are getting thegoing rub of the green from official's quite a few going there way.
A poster has said they are the latest darlings of the premiership coming from where they were (credit to them for that) a short time ago.Going to be an interesting 2nd half to the season for them ! Making a real fist of it and credit to them for that.

 

[sheff_blade90]

thought id search it out this morning, because of the fuss kompany & Burnley made. i don't see the issue with the luton goal. from what i see both players going for the ball but trafford in trying to claim the cross he just runs into the luton player, i dont see how its a foul. there no malice & you cant punish a player for standing in the balls path as thats the entire point of game & its just bad luck for burnley that it fell to morris.

it seems as if VAR turned into a get out of jail free card for premier league managers now. like mikel arteta, it's not about if the rules correct its whether its goes in their favour