Another VAR debate…..

[metalblade]

That's because they all have mics, they don't need to wave their flag around like a lunatic to let him know they think they've seen something.

Ref post #7

 

[BLADES1988]

VAR sucks the life out of football. You can't celebrate a goal, because they will try their hardest to rule it out and most of the time do. John lundstrams toe. I'd rather have a shit ref every time.

 

[Everblade]

When embarking on a refereeing career they should have it drummed into them that the less they are in the spotlight, not strutting about and it being all about them,even anonymous, the better ref they’ll be.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Instead of just voting yes or no, think it's best to examine just what VAR offers and the alternative.

Without VAR: decision are probably well over 80% accurate
With VAR: decisions are 98% accurate

The criticism of VAR seems to be around expectation, everyone thought VAR would be 100%
but as we all know it has made some errors, however it's still much better and more accurate than match day referees.

However being able to instantly celebrate goals is a massive positive of watching football.
Doesn't seem natural when the "VAR check" pops up on the screen when there's a goal or foul.

I'm a little sat on the fence because the pros and cons are quite similar.
However I've slightly edged towards having VAR as I'd rather have the most correct decisions.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

You should never kick the fat lad while he is down................you will pay in the end................and they did..........Hanley and Norwich.

 

[Westfield Blade]

Lino's are redundant now .................................. mainly due to VAR. Today you no longer see Lino's attracting the referee's attention to something they have missed they are scared to make decisions in some cases and wait for the referee to make the call. The standards of match officials is worse than poor it is atrocious and getting worse to the point where fans begin to wonder if some ref's have taken bribes when they favour one team so blatantly.

Lino’s are miked up to the refs these days, so the conversation between them is ongoing all the time. It just frustrates us as fans as we can’t see it taking place.

 

[Melbourne Blade]

There's been some terrible decisions go against us recently but not sure VAR is the answer. As op pointed out the game is played faster than ever with ever increasing expectations from owners and fans meaning the current structure of officiating just doesn't cut it.

Another option is more officials but not more shit officials as it could exasperate the situation. Possibly 2 linesman in each half or at least an additional official behind each goal. AFL has a reasonable model of goal line umpires, boundary umpires and multiple field umpires as well as only essential video reviews.

 

[metalblade]

Lino’s are miked up to the refs these days, so the conversation between them is ongoing all the time. It just frustrates us as fans as we can’t see it taking place.

Ref post #7

 

[Ralph Blade]

Still dislike it’s presence in the game. Took the chance to go to Villa Park yesterday before the flight home, atmosphere was electric (nearly as good as in the BLUT on Saturday), yet the first two early goals were not really celebrated like they used to be because both were subject to VAR offside checks. It sucks the life out of the game, Michael Oliver, allegedly one of our top refs couldn’t get a red card decision right in the week, even with a tv screen and a second ref to review. I would rather there be a method of tackling the deliberate time wasting that a majority of referees don’t seem to have either the awareness or bottle to address.

 

[bertieblade]

If VAR made consistent decisions it may have a place in the game but it does not as the official viewing any relevant footage has his own interpretation.
bournemouth manager saying that the last ten contentious decisions which have gone to VAR have all gone against them, I know they had their fair share in their promotion seasons, but there does appear to be a conspiracy to protect the established clubs.
Their two decisions last night were ridiculous.

 

[jt64]

If VAR made consistent decisions it may have a place in the game but it does not as the official viewing any relevant footage has his own interpretation.
bournemouth manager saying that the last ten contentious decisions which have gone to VAR have all gone against them, I know they had their fair share in their promotion seasons, but there does appear to be a conspiracy to protect the established clubs.
Their two decisions last night were ridiculous.

Imagine if VAR had correctly sent off Lerma for the awful lunging challenge where he only got a yellow, then he'd be fuming rather than just having selective memory

 

[Maidenhead]

One of the best things about watching games is the constant fluctuations of emotions and the highs and lows that come and go throughout the game.

For me VAR takes that instant emotion away.

Oh look, the ball's in the net, let's have a look at the screen and see if it counts, completely kills the game for me.

I'd rather have 10 wrong decisions a game than VAR ruling out goals because of the smallest infringements.

Players make mistakes, referees make mistakes. Has always been the case and always will be with or without VAR

I say scrap the cameras, let the humans get on with it, and let the emotions start to flow again.

At least in the Championship I can emotionally buy into the games, and long may it stay that way!

 

[LurkerBlade]

No fan of VAR but I would like to see referees reviewed a lot more and clubs able to give evidence to the FA for retrospective punishment.

Head injuries being a big one at the moment, I agree with the sentiment, we have to be much more cautious with them and make sure the players are "safe" but there is a sharp increase in players going down and grabbing their head to stop play when something might go against them.

Video evidence should be used, and a 1 match ban given if it's clear there was no contact with the head. Same with dives that win bookings or penalties, they should be reviewed, and the "cheat" should get an automatic ban.

Time wasting, if a team consistently does this in matches (or a team has it done against them ) referees should be told to clamp down on it from minute 1 and to give early bookings if it's clear they are doing it.

*sorry, rant over

 

[bertieblade]

They have cameras in place to assist the referee but it does not assist the game. As previously pointed out one of the main problems with “todays“ football is the amount of cheating, if retrospective punishment were to be introduced with reviews from a panel consisting of referee, ex player and ex manager it would soon cut it out. It may even make decent TV so I am surprised it has not been adopted as they seem to control everything else

 

[Ned the Donkey]

I'd rather have a million wrong decisions a game than VAR ruling out goals because of the smallest infringements.

Players make mistakes, referees make mistakes. Has always been the case and always will be with or without VAR

I say scrap the cameras, let the humans get on with it, and let the emotions start to flow again.

Really well put. Imagine that, mistakes and emotion. You know, humanity.

In a functioning society all the cameras would have been ripped out and set on fire by an angry mob long ago. Instead it's meek fucking compliance.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

I’m still struggling to understand the benefit of stopping a game because someone is deemed to have erred in their (subjective) decision making to await (a further 4 minutes) afore someone else makes a (different ?) (subjective) decision
Stick to the original dropped bollock & have done!

 

[ATL Recs]

When embarking on a refereeing career they should have it drummed into them that the less they are in the spotlight, not strutting about and it being all about them,even anonymous, the better ref they’ll be.

Or enforce their authority in such a way that players don’t take the piss wasting time throwing themselves to the floor at every opportunity

 

[bakeblade]

I’m still struggling to understand the benefit of stopping a game because someone is deemed to have erred in their (subjective) decision making to await (a further 4 minutes) afore someone else makes a (different ?) (subjective) decision
Stick to the original dropped bollock & have done!

Harry Kanes 'goal' the other night was classic VAR

 

[bartman]

Head injuries being a big one at the moment, I agree with the sentiment, we have to be much more cautious with them and make sure the players are "safe" but there is a sharp increase in players going down and grabbing their head to stop play when something might go against them.

For me there are simple ways to solve this

1. Any player goes down injured( non-head injury), play continues and the trainer is waved onto the pitch to deal with. The player then has to leave the pitch for the same amount of time he has been 'injured' .
2. Head injuries. If player claims a head injury, he is escorted from the field and assessed by an independent doctor. To ensure there are no delayed effects, the player has to stay off the pitch for 5 minutes after which time an independent doctor assesses the player to confirm they can return to the pitch amount. This is for player safety
3. If the player has been clearly concussed at the outset on the pitch , a concussion substitute is used anyway

 

[bartman]

Harry Kanes 'goal' the other night was classic VAR

The decision was technically right but,for me, if any decision cant be made within 60 seconds it stays with the on pitch decision

 

[ghandi]

The decision was technically right but,for me, if any decision cant be made within 60 seconds it stays with the on pitch decision

It wasn't as it robbed me of the last leg in my accumulator :-(

 

[Proper Blade]

Short memories from some. VAR was a total nightmare whilst we were in the Prem - not only were we on the end of some scandalously bad decisions, you could never celebrate a goal without thinking VAR was going to fuck it up. It took away all the raw emotion of football.

Even some of the decisions that went in our favour were stupid. The Rice handball for West Ham and the Moura (?) handball for Spurs both spring to mind.

Could you imagine if VAR were in operation for the Burnley game? Fuck me, they would probably have ruled all 7 goals out and we'd still be playing now because of the time it took for each one.

 

[Nickydblade]

For me there are simple ways to solve this

1. Any player goes down injured( non-head injury), play continues and the trainer is waved onto the pitch to deal with. The player then has to leave the pitch for the same amount of time he has been 'injured' .
2. Head injuries. If player claims a head injury, he is escorted from the field and assessed by an independent doctor. To ensure there are no delayed effects, the player has to stay off the pitch for 5 minutes after which time an independent doctor assesses the player to confirm they can return to the pitch amount. This is for player safety
3. If the player has been clearly concussed at the outset on the pitch , a concussion substitute is used anyway

Im not sure it is that simple. I think most fans would agree with anything that would reduce the amount of cheating / shithousing / 'game-management' that sometimes ruins things. However, your solutions would also punish the 'victims' of genuine fouls or injuries including, for example:

1 McAtee Bristol City v SUFC
2 Baker SUFC v Bristol City

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/nathan-baker-hospitalised-sheffield-united-6273685

Now, if we could find a way of sorting who was genuinely hurt it would make things simple, but fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your opinion) protecting players is the priority. We all want to stop players 'taking the piss' but again it is often hard to 'know' so refs have to be cautious (and most fans I sit around are totally biased so we can't claim we know better).

On VAR I'm a bit more supportive than most, although I totally agree with the argument it can impact on the spontaneity of enjoying the game... and I don't think that is worth sacrificing for a small % of more accurate decisions.

However, what I think is positive about VAR is the deterrent. IIRC before it came in there was so much 'gamesmanship' going on that the officials couldn't be expected to see, but if you know VAR will check when e.g. you 'cheat' in the box waiting for a corner (I remember thinking VAR reduced the ridiculous amount of grabbing in the box so Harry could bang in headers at the 2018 World Cup). I also think the amount of screaming, rolling or holding your head (for nowt) while looking for a red has reduced. IF this is the case, then maybe VAR is a price worth paying?

Although I do like the idea of more retrospective punishment suggested by bertieblade ... it also opens a massive can of worms. Can you imagine missing promotion determined by a decision that was retrospectively changed... lawyers could be all over it!

I wish the game was more simple... and (if needed) that we can another offside goal to get us to the top of the league tonight!

 

[Yewsman]

The principal of VAR has to be correct. It is to make sure referees get the big decisions in a game, like a penalty, a sending off, an off side goal correct. There is nothing worse than seeing a really bad and wrong decision in any sport. The equivalent of VAR works really well in Rugby, cricket, tennis to name but three sports. I get the complaint that maybe you can’t celebrate a goal immediately but what’s worse is seeing the opposition celebrate a goal that should never have been. The problem with VAR is the way it is operated and the apparently completely incompetent people who operate it. The ridiculous “big toe” being offside, the apparent reluctance of refs not consulting the tv screen to check they are satisfied they got the sending off or whatever correct and other ridiculous decisions that we sadly still tend to get in the EPL. Typical of football authorities the system was introduced lock stock and barrel without any proper trials and apparently without any proper training for officials. it was a farce and on some occasions still is. But ultimately if used properly it will get rid of the wrong and unjust decisions being given in a game.

 

[Oreyt]

Its murky influence has even reached Subbuteo now

 

[100% part time blade]

I get the complaint that maybe you can’t celebrate a goal immediately but what’s worse is seeing the opposition celebrate a goal that should never have been.

I honestly don’t think that’s worse. Celebrating goals is 95% of the joy of football. Take that away, and it’s pretty much done. I’d take watching the opposition celebrate a goal that should never have been now and again to retain the actual enjoyment of scoring.

 

[Rufus Smalls]

Just used VAR for a tackle by Liverpool’s Fabinho on Brighton’s Ferguson.

Ref gave a yellow but the slow motion showed it was a disgraceful tackle from behind, but its Liverpool so lets not rock the boat.

 

[mattbianco1]

Problem is, we have totally inept referee's in this country

 

[1973Blade]

Problem is, we have totally inept referee's in this country

It was a penalty in the last minute soft or not. There was contact. The poor decision for me was not sending Vinicius off. If the Wolves player had pretended to be injured it would have been a nailed on red. It rewards playacting.

 

[LBA_Blade]

It was a penalty in the last minute soft or not. There was contact. The poor decision for me was not sending Vinicius off. If the Wolves player had pretended to be injured it would have been a nailed on red. It rewards playacting.

The problem is in general you have the clear and obvious cheating alongside the avoiding the potential for injury so take a tumble/feel the contact and avoid a risk of an injury etc. The rolling about stuff should be with either an enforced substitution a period of time of 5-10 minutes with a medic before being passed fit to play. Speaking from a personal view point if there was a dangerous tackle coming in and I saw it I probably am not going to watch it snap my ankles but would make the most of it and avoid the tackle