Another Pointless Linkup?

[alcoblade]

Alco not being pedantic, (well I am actually) but Dunc said "does it cost a lot of money".

I'd say as this is coming from their side not ours flights and accommodation for our delegates will be next to nothing comparatively and certainly won't cost us a lot.

I agree to a point Bob. But it's the "it doesn't cost a lot of money" X 50 attitude that helped us get so heavily in debt in the first place. Many of us fans, I believe, are rather tired of more and more link ups, more and more developments for the future, when the ones we've already got and that have left us so heavily in debt are still costing, not earning money.

I think we'd all puke if we knew how much money has been spent on Fradi on our "behalf".

UTB

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

DP8789 - if you seriously don't think that United see not a single benefit from these link-ups, then why do you think we pursued them in the first place, and have retained them so vigerously? Think about it...

Cus they just might have had some building projects in the pipe line?

 

[DuncDisorderly]

Many of us fans, I believe, are rather tired of more and more link ups, more and more developments for the future, when the ones we've already got and that have left us so heavily in debt are still costing, not earning money.

We sent a b unch of the kids over to Fradi to play the best part of a season with them. Maybe in the end they didn;t make the first team, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing was an expensive waste.

I think we'd all puke if we knew how much money has been spent on Fradi on our "behalf".

UTB

Why? How much has been spent on Fradi on our behalf..?

 

[alcoblade]

We sent a b unch of the kids over to Fradi to play the best part of a season with them. Maybe in the end they didn;t make the first team, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing was an expensive waste.



Why? How much has been spent on Fradi on our behalf..?

I don't know, that's why I said "I think". But I doubt very much, for a start, that they picked up Robinson's several hundred thousand pound a year wages, or expenses. And the multiple trips of players and club officials can only have cost quite a sum. Was Short paid for in some way by us? I suspect so. Why else did they choose such a manager? Could they really afford an expensive ex premiership player? Have we had a single benefit in return that we couldn't have had by sending the kids to a lower division UK club for free?

Chengdu was seen as a no lose investment. It cost us £2.5Million (about the entire income from our season ticket revenue) in one season alone.

UTB

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

But we wanted the Fradi link up, this link up is all of their asking and it's early days to be expecting returns from any of our link ups.

Its like fans expecting the academy to be turning out first teamers within the first year or the hotel to post huge profits within the first few years. It just isn't realistic and shouldn't be expected.

 

[alcoblade]

But we wanted the Fradi link up, this link up is all of their asking and it's early days to be expecting returns from any of our link ups.

Its like fans expecting the academy to be turning out first teamers within the first year or the hotel to post huge profits within the first few years. It just isn't realistic and shouldn't be expected.

By "We" do you mean McCabe? I'll await the influx of talent. I wont hold my breath mate. It's not clear to me what we're waiting for with the foreign link ups though. Several years on and nothing more than a healthy crop of tumbleweed. Unlike the academy, it's not a case of waiting for players to develop here, surely?

The academy is very costly and its' record is questionably no better than the youth system before it. Jags, Tonge, Monty - all products of the youth system despite the years seemigly bending that fact. Fans have every right to question the worth of the academy.

UTB

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

By "We" do you mean McCabe? I'll await the influx of talent. I wont hold my breath mate. It's not clear to me what we're waiting for with the foreign link ups though. Several years on and nothing more than a healthy crop of tumbleweed. Unlike the academy, it's not a case of waiting for players to develop here, surely?

The academy is very costly and its' record is questionably no better than the youth system before it. Jags, Tonge, Monty - all products of the youth system despite the years seemigly bending that fact. Fans have every right to question the worth of the academy.

UTB

Don't agree at all, the academy costs are less than half a million a season including the wages. An academy will take about 7 years to make a difference while you wait for kids to come through it end to end. Jags and Tonge both started elsewhere before coming to United and I'd hardly say that Monty's technical ability was a testament to the previous youth setup.
It's not very costly comparative to the previous system and we are producing better technical players. Mellis, Walker, Naughton, Lawton, Brown all seemed comfortable on the ball and looked to fit into the team ok. Plus although not all players are good enough and retained the ones that are coming through seem decent prospects at our level.
The money from Mellis alone probably covered the costs of the academy since its introduction (not including wages) and Walker/Naughton certainly have.

 

[alcoblade]

Don't agree at all, the academy costs are less than half a million a season including the wages. An academy will take about 7 years to make a difference while you wait for kids to come through it end to end. Jags and Tonge both started elsewhere before coming to United and I'd hardly say that Monty's technical ability was a testament to the previous youth setup.
It's not very costly comparative to the previous system and we are producing better technical players. Mellis, Walker, Naughton, Lawton, Brown all seemed comfortable on the ball and looked to fit into the team ok. Plus although not all players are good enough and retained the ones that are coming through seem decent prospects at our level.
The money from Mellis alone probably covered the costs of the academy since its introduction (not including wages) and Walker/Naughton certainly have.

Didn't the academy cost about £10M to build, alone?

It's running costs were over £1M per year for most of its' life.

It's an average at best return so far. Melis's fee would cover 1 years running costs ustil they were slashed.

The 2 Kyles have gone a long way to support it's existence, fair play. But who knows what might have come form a cheaper setup over the same time, or if we'd jsut tried to unearth 3 - 4 Jamie Ward's each year with the money.

Overall, your short list of players most of which haven't so far troubled the first team actually strengthens my point, IMHO.

I'm not massively anti-academy, I'm just far from convinced.

UTB

 

[Kev Gee]

I was enthuiastic about the link ups at the start.

But my enthusiasm is waining.

Year after year & not one player signed from our link ups.

So let me get this right... Theres not a SINGLE player at any of our partnership clubs that could do a job for us now?

We need players, we have a few partnership clubs, yet we dont take a look at any established players at those clubs.

Sure we take a look at their kids, decide their not ready 'yet' then send them back were they came.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Didn't the academy cost about £10M to build, alone?

It's running costs were over £1M per year for most of its' life.

It's an average at best return so far. Melis's fee would cover 1 years running costs ustil they were slashed.

The 2 Kyles have gone a long way to support it's existence, fair play. But who knows what might have come form a cheaper setup over the same time, or if we'd jsut tried to unearth 3 - 4 Jamie Ward's each year with the money.

Overall, your short list of players most of which haven't so far troubled the first team actually strengthens my point, IMHO.

I'm not massively anti-academy, I'm just far from convinced.

UTB

How long has the new academy been in place? If anything it is ahead of schedule more and more will come through.

Walker Naughton and Mellis will be followed with the likes of Brown, Lawton, and Foster behind them the likes of McFazdean, Maguire, Kennedy. When was the last time we had stream of decent youngsters even close to the squad?

 

[lenners]

Puppet's got this one nailed.
A series of pointless 'link-ups', the only one of which might have benefited SUFC through ownership we royally ballsed-up.
I did like Bob's claim that Estudiantes insisted on the link-up though. Amusing stuff.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Puppet's got this one nailed.
A series of pointless 'link-ups', the only one of which might have benefited SUFC through ownership we royally ballsed-up.
I did like Bob's claim that Estudiantes insisted on the link-up though. Amusing stuff.

It's true, it was the reason the friendly wasn't announced as soon as it was arranged. We just wanted the friendly but they wanted this link up finalised.
You believe it or not that's up to you, but I think I'm more likely to have better information on this than you.

 

[lenners]

It's true, it was the reason the friendly wasn't announced as soon as it was arranged. We just wanted the friendly but they wanted this link up finalised.
You believe it or not that's up to you, but I think I'm more likely to have better information on this than you.

Yes, Bob, they twisted our arms until we gave in and said ok, we'll have a meaningless link-up to go with our list of other meaningless link-ups.
But I'm glad we've got the link-up 'finalised'. Should totally transform SUFC into a global player, just like all the other ones have.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Again Len, its refreshing to see that you'd rather believe your own version of events which knocks the club rather than a version offered by someone who actually knew something about it.

Any excuse to have a go eh Len, even when you have to make it up yourself. I've explained why they want the link and its because of our other links. I'll leave you with it to have a pop at supposedly your club without any evidence or facts to back it up.

 

[lenners]

Again Len, its refreshing to see that you'd rather believe your own version of events which knocks the club rather than a version offered by someone who actually knew something about it.

Any excuse to have a go eh Len, even when you have to make it up yourself. I've explained why they want the link and its because of our other links. I'll leave you with it to have a pop at supposedly your club without any evidence or facts to back it up.

But Bob, no-one gives a flying about any of the pointless links.
Estudiantes 'insist' on having another pointless link with us - who cares? It makes not one single, tiny bit of difference to SUFC.
I think it's funny you choose to believe what you're told - or even that you think it matters.
Mebbes McCabe wants to do some business down South America way and this'll help open some doors. If that makes him money and less bothered about taking money out of SUFC, that's a good thing.
But this pretence that 'link-ups' make a blind bit of difference to our actual football club is just bollox. A quick read at the statements on the club websites tell you all you need to know.

 

[alcoblade]

How long has the new academy been in place? If anything it is ahead of schedule more and more will come through.

Walker Naughton and Mellis will be followed with the likes of Brown, Lawton, and Foster behind them the likes of McFazdean, Maguire, Kennedy. When was the last time we had stream of decent youngsters even close to the squad?

" When was the last time we had stream of decent youngsters even close to the squad".....I fear this is more a measure of the depth of our current squad than the progress of the academy. Surely the club's assessment of progress so far was to bin off the man who was at the helm - is this a ringing endorsement or a pointer that we're ahead of schedule? However, I believe you're close in some way to the set-up so I'll just hope you're right. Unlike some (^^^^^^^), I will be very happy to eat humble pie.

UTB

 

[raul]

I like the way Kyle Walker is fast becoming the new Ched Evans Transfer Fee. Major success when we're bulling up the Academy. Accident waiting to happen when we want to pat ourselves on the back for his sale.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I don't think that is anyone impression of Walker. He is/was a talented young player who still has improvement to make to be called Premiership class. Positives, technically good on the ball, quick, good delivery on the downside he's tactically naive at times, tries to do too much and gets caught too often in possession. All the negatives are understandable of a player his age but needs games and to acknowledge these faults to iron them out.
He isn't going to get chance at Spurs, but he wanted to go and will be moved on soon enough for less than we got for him.

For me, as we are talking about a fullback, it would suggest we sold him and Naughton for an OTT figure and therefore was a good deal for the club.

Evans at £3 Million hasn't been a good deal for the club, at this moment in time, but I think he has the technical ability to do better if he gets an injury free run.
If he gets 20 + goals this season then he will have been worth it IMHO. The difference is Evans is going to play for us if fit, Naughton and Walker aren't going to play for Spurs.

 

[lenners]

Alternatively, if we'd kept Walker and not bought the £1m a goal man last season we may well have sneaked into the play-offs, sold more season tickets and could have sold Walker anyway - assuming we'd done our traditional play-off ferk up.
Henderson's injury gives Chedwyn a better chance of playing but hasn't he mainly been on the bench in pre-season?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Alternatively, if we'd kept Walker and not bought the £1m a goal man last season we may well have sneaked into the play-offs, sold more season tickets and could have sold Walker anyway - assuming we'd done our traditional play-off ferk up.
Henderson's injury gives Chedwyn a better chance of playing but hasn't he mainly been on the bench in pre-season?

Ah the beauty of hindsight coupled with pure speculation, but of course you wouldn't of had Walker Len. You'd got rid of the academy.
You are also assuming Walker would of been ok with us turning down a move he wanted.

Ched's not played lots in pre-season but about same as Simmo or Britton so maybe we aren't starting with any of them. Either that or they are being protected for the season.

 

[boo radley]

Flippin eck Len. Now where did i see that massive long thread about Monty started by Olle?

 

[super_pig]

estudiantes.. perhaps we could get some of their shirts.. they're a damned sight better than ours.. now that is a proper red and white striped shirt.

 

[SheepdipBlade]

Was thinking about this thread yesterday as I watched Laszlo the Magyar be the best player on the park in the first half (by common agreement in our part of John St) - And watched Lowson play the whole game off the back of a season at Fradi.

Beyond all that - why can't you miserable bastards just enjoy the fact that the links give us fans chance to talk to fans around the world (some on here like Kyopityus) who now have a common interest, and perhaps even go and visit them. There's room in football for building bridges with new people as well as worrying about what happens on the park at BDTBL.

 

[super_pig]

amen sheepdip.. there's more to it than 'ooh.. how many players can we nick off them?'

 

[lenners]

Ah the beauty of hindsight coupled with pure speculation, but of course you wouldn't of had Walker Len. You'd got rid of the academy.
You are also assuming Walker would of been ok with us turning down a move he wanted.

Ched's not played lots in pre-season but about same as Simmo or Britton so maybe we aren't starting with any of them. Either that or they are being protected for the season.

No Bob, I said selling Walker was a mistake at the time. That mistake was then compounded by the embarrassing 'season long loan.'
From a playing point of view it was a mistake, financially it was a mistake but most of all the damage of selling our best young players for a generation in the blink of an eye has been massive to the soul of the club.
Naughton you could just about justify because Blackwell's inept management meant we couldn't find a way to play against Burnley for the third time in six months, leaving us high and dry and him wanting to scarper.
Walker no.

 

[alcoblade]

Was thinking about this thread yesterday as I watched Laszlo the Magyar be the best player on the park in the first half (by common agreement in our part of John St) - And watched Lowson play the whole game off the back of a season at Fradi.

Beyond all that - why can't you miserable bastards just enjoy the fact that the links give us fans chance to talk to fans around the world (some on here like Kyopityus) who now have a common interest, and perhaps even go and visit them. There's room in football for building bridges with new people as well as worrying about what happens on the park at BDTBL.

Fradi picked up "half a million quid" from us to pay for Robinson's tenure, but hey, you got to chat with their fans.....

And we're the ones missing the bigger picture!

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

amen sheepdip.. there's more to it than 'ooh.. how many players can we nick off them?'

Like what?

UTB

 

[raul]

Was thinking about this thread yesterday as I watched Laszlo the Magyar be the best player on the park in the first half (by common agreement in our part of John St) - And watched Lowson play the whole game off the back of a season at Fradi.

Beyond all that - why can't you miserable bastards just enjoy the fact that the links give us fans chance to talk to fans around the world (some on here like Kyopityus) who now have a common interest, and perhaps even go and visit them. There's room in football for building bridges with new people as well as worrying about what happens on the park at BDTBL.

I'd like to teach the worlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllddddddd to siiiiiiiiiiiiiiingggggg

 

[SheepdipBlade]

I'd like to teach the worlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllddddddd to siiiiiiiiiiiiiiingggggg

Aye - And better than the tone deaf droning we've heard from your lot down the Rutland!!!

 

[davidpinder]

I see Barnsley have snapped up one of there strikers. Who has the link up??