Another Blackwell Thread...

[beightonblade]

Best to judge on the past than promises.

 

[lenners]

Given that it is clear Blackwell is around for a while all this speculative chat is not going to lead anywhere: it appeared that some felt they were the leading edge for change. Like I said, if we are still around 16th come Feb it might be on the cards but with planned investment in Jan nothing is coming before then.

This is bobbins.
Lose on Monday and he's more than likely one game from the sack.
McCabe won't tolerate five straight defeats, never mind the fans.
The argument that Blackwell's fireproof regardless flies in the face of logic.

 

[Come from away]

He had a lot more patience with Robson despite no history of success. If you are right I do not think it will do the club or team any good. I think McCabe understands that so I think you are whistling Dixie. Time will tell.

 

[lenners]

He had a lot more patience with Robson despite no history of success. If you are right I do not think it will do the club or team any good. I think McCabe understands that so I think you are whistling Dixie. Time will tell.

If Robson had lost five or six on the bounce he would almost certainly have been out the door sooner.

 

[Micalijo]

My oh my, you really don't have much to do do you Swiss Blade.

1. Robson took over a very talented bunch of individuals who were unlucky to go down. They were widely expected to go back up to the premiership and were recognised by many as one of the best teams in the championship.
2. Already aswered this. Did you read my post? The players are there, they have the ability, but Blackwell can't get the best out of them. I expect a new manager to give the players the confidence boost they need and get them to start working as a cohesive unit. Concentrate on the basics in training and motivate the players.
3. Robins has (already) come in a got results for a team that looked quite simply awful. Using the same players he has got better results than Davies dreamt about.
4. Maybe not, but the point is that with the same resources a new manager is getting better results.
5. See Grecians post above. If you want a more detailed list I can come up with one. It will just need a bit of reserach and thinking time.
6. KB is the main crack. The team is a good one, it's just the management team is awful.
7. Blackwell has taken us as far as he can. I know that, every other Blade can see that .... except you. Our form stinks. Since we beat Derby we have taken 5 points from 24 games and conceded over 20 goals. We have been well and truly awful. Convincingly beaten by Coventry, Swansea, Blackpool and Scunthorpe. Results have been unacceptable. This is why I want a change of management.
8. I would hold my hands up and say that we were not good enough. I'd hold my hands and say the fans deserve better. And to answer yourr question, yes I'd stay calm. If I really believed in my ability and that I was the right man for the job etc I'd apologise and state that things will change. Him flying off the handle shows his insecurities, the fact that he knows he is on borrowed time and he is not sure he can turn this around.
9. His body language suggests he'll walk. This is my opinion of course. I think that the pressure will become too much for him. He knows he's out of his depth and that he should have left last May.
10. Look at the survey on here: Sack him or back him!!!
11. No the players were not arguing on Saturday. But they were in the 2 previous games.
12. Most means the majority.
13. His tactics are awful, his man management is awful, he doesn't know his bbest team/first 11, he consistently favours poor players and doesn't give others a chance, our form is awful and shows no sign of improving, he struggles to attract decent players to the club, most of his signigns are poor, he can't get the bets out of his players. Need I go?

You see you come across with your patronising arrogance shoving me into the catagory of a Blackwell knocker. Shoes off person or whaever. The same as Micalijo or Fiery. I am not a negative Blade, far from it. Read my other posts and you'll see that I offer critcial based arguments. I love united and I want what is best for them. Kevin Blackwell is not what is best for us and hence I want him to leave. I've ignored the rest of your insults and stuck to answering the questions you've asked. This is partly because I prefer to rise above (and have no interest in insulting you) and partly because I shot down Liam.

Olly - great efforts in this string by the way - sorry I wasn't around to back you!

One question though, you weren't referring to me as a shoes off type of Blade were you? I've read it a few times and I aint 100% sure. Hope not because I assure you I am just like you, love United, love football, don't like Blackwell, don't like his brand of football (altho Cardiff game I enjoyed in terms of attacking play) and think we'd improve immediately with a new man.

 

[prescotblade]

oh for the days when you supported your team through the good and bad times no matter what. Still think we will be in the top six at the end of the season but my cup is half full and not half empty. Life as a blade always interesting.

 

[jacknat]

oh for the days when you supported your team through the good and bad times no matter what. Still think we will be in the top six at the end of the season but my cup is half full and not half empty. Life as a blade always interesting.

mine is 2 jags....just bored of shit football and shittier excuses

 

[madeinsheffield]

oh for the days when you supported your team through the good and bad times no matter what. Still think we will be in the top six at the end of the season but my cup is half full and not half empty. Life as a blade always interesting.

but it is shit every week, and yep we will still keep going full of hope at 3 o'clock thinking it won't be as shit as last week. If it was a bird you'd dump her!

 

[Mary Christmas]

Swiss I do appreciate your posts and "admire" your defence of Mr B. He's not my idea of a good manager and worse I do not believe that he is a particularly good coach (ironically that's originally all we got him for) so either which way he's been off my list of favourites since (minus) day one.

Though I'm now in "now's not the right time" corner if I thought for one minute that there was another one lined up to take over straight away I'd be glad to see the back of him. All the business of "I've got so many injuries"; "I didn't have enough players to fill the bench" (Homer to Marge "Ever since you started therapy, all you can do is talk about yourself). Whether "he" has 10 injuries or none he has still got a load of footballers and a good few that would still be in his team if everyone was fit; and it is his responsibility to make the (very) best of what he has available.

I, and I should think everbody else, (apart from the one or two who spout "we really should lose; we really should boo or we've got him for life" lot) desperately want us to win and win often. Results are king. I want to see us march up the division and there's still a reasonable chance of that happening if, for no other reason, that it's a piss poor standard from the very top to the very bottom (I've just realised the counterpoint to that assertion) but there is absolutely no way that Mr B could sustain a United team in the Premiership and that's what it should all be about. We have a forum full of statiticions who filled a thread full of compelling arguments as to where United are placed the league of mediocracy and fascinately we appear to sit in the friggin middle of that! However, fascinating as it was I didn't need any of it - I've been around for a good many of those average, mean, median, middle of the road years and quite simply espect and know we deserve better.

God help us - somewhere in the merry-go-round of football managers there must be one (and I hope He agrees with me that it is Steve Coppell) straining to lead us from this barren land!

 

[super_pig]

>Not every other Blade see's it your way.
yeah but they're gradually coming round mate.. another couple of defeats..
like blackwell said about doncaster just shows what planet he is on. earth calling bootwell. now they may have had more hoofs than us but this statistic (like most) is misleading.. they also mix up their play so that the other team doesn't ALWAYS know where the point of attack is.. i'd had it at the burnley away match last year tbh.. kenny and killgallon were constantly kicking the ball down the middle (killgallon is the WORST for this.. who does he think he is? alan hansen or something) and their defence were immediately dropping into position ready for the hoof every time.. stupid.. its not about not hoofing the ball AT ALL but mixing up the play so the opponent doesn't know where you are going to attack.. some of you find this concept really difficult don't you.. i'm sorry

 

[DuncDisorderly]

I think Blades fans would be more patient with the 'right' man.

I doubt that very much.

To be like Donny, no win in 9 but playing beautiful flowing passing football, would be as unacceptable as what we have now...

 

[Bladesway]

Belting debate for a change with limited name calling.

Sacking Blackwell is all well and good, I can actually see some logic for doing it. The Football isn't very good to watch in the main and the results are currently nothing short of awful. Do we stick or twist?

Does a new manager bring better results? Depends on many things. Is the dressing room shot already? Are the players wanting the manager out? Who would replace him (getting good managers in isn't KM's strongest point) and are things really that bad? All answers are different depending on who you talk to.

My own opinion is that chopping and changing is all well and good but chairmen really should be scrutinised more for their choice of manager. I would have a ruling that managers can only be laid off at the end of a season. That way we would perhaps think harder about who we appointed and each appointment wouldn't be a loaded gun.

So my choice is keep him for the season, if we get in the top 6 he has done his job, if he doesn't then he goes.

 

[beechblade]

Belting debate for a change with limited name calling.

Sacking Blackwell is all well and good, I can actually see some logic for doing it. The Football isn't very good to watch in the main and the results are currently nothing short of awful. Do we stick or twist?

Does a new manager bring better results? Depends on many things. Is the dressing room shot already? Are the players wanting the manager out? Who would replace him (getting good managers in isn't KM's strongest point) and are things really that bad? All answers are different depending on who you talk to.

My own opinion is that chopping and changing is all well and good but chairmen really should be scrutinised more for their choice of manager. I would have a ruling that managers can only be laid off at the end of a season. That way we would perhaps think harder about who we appointed and each appointment wouldn't be a loaded gun.

So my choice is keep him for the season, if we get in the top 6 he has done his job, if he doesn't then he goes.

I agree with this, KM hasn't been the best man for choosing great, managers for the club.

Blackwell however came in a did the job. However albeit it wasn't pretty to watch.

The start of this season we looked strong but we all had questions about the lack of cover and the more recent statements made by KM seems more down to miss planning on KB part, we all knew we'd struggle and though this have been part of the reason we have gone on a bad run. It certainly aren't the main cause of our down turn, as still on paper we look strong. But for some reasons the amount of mistakes being made in games is becoming largely comical at times.
Problem is we don't seem to be addressing these problems is this down to KB? or are the players being overloaded with opposing information from the backroom staff? One thing I'll say is I back keeping him till at least December and possibly the end of the season, I think if the majority of silly mistakes at the back are ironed out then we could go on a very firm run and showed the positive play made at times against Cardiff that most have been after (we still need to improve but all the signs are there of a very good squad trying to break out).

 

[Fiery Blade]

Without wanting to sound like a broken record butBlackwell has proven he cannot work under pressure.
When he first took over from Robson, no pressure and results and performances good!
Last season extended contract, Blackwells side, = pressure failed to perform to previous seasons standards
This season, persuaded to stay by McCabe after P/O final = even more pressure
Blackwell cannot cope with pressure He will not turn things round unfortunately
He shows the classic symptoms, lashing out when things don't go right, blame culture exists, won't face media following poor performance = all point to a man under pressure that cannot cope!

 

[shorehamview]

Without wanting to sound like a broken record butBlackwell has proven he cannot work under pressure.
When he first took over from Robson, no pressure and results and performances good!
Last season extended contract, Blackwells side, = pressure failed to perform to previous seasons standards

Hmm. When Blackwell took over from Robson he got us to ninth place, not far off the play offs. So the following season, last season, he "failed to perform to previous seasons standards" by actually getting the team to finish third, and into the play off final. Now, I'm not disputing the fact that Blackwell isn't the world's greatest manager, but describing last season's performance as failure "to perform to previous seasons standards", when he actually surpassed the previous season's performances is ridiculous.

Unless you are suggesting that finishing third isn't better than finishing ninth then I can't see the logic of the argument that last season wasn't better than the one before. I know there are posters on this forum who wouldn't like Blackwell if we won the league at a canter, or if he shot himself in the face in the Kop end goalmouth, but to suggest that a third place finish means the team "failed to perform to previous seasons standards" of ninth place is astonishing to say the least.

Unless of course in your topsy-turvy world ninth place is better than third, and if you believe that then send me a personal message, because I have a bridge you might like to buy.

 

[Stan]

Whilst i still sit on the fence as far as KB is concerned, I agree with you Fiery as far as KB's press "performances" are concerned. He is not very good at interviews and, in my opinion, gets rattled too easily. Perhaps it is actually best if he sends Gary Speed out sometimes to do the post-match stuff. He always comes over well, although it's perhaps easier for him as he isn't the manager. As for Sam Ellis he should never have been let anywhere near our club (in my opinion).

 

[Fiery Blade]

Hmm. When Blackwell took over from Robson he got us to ninth place, not far off the play offs. So the following season, last season, he "failed to perform to previous seasons standards" by actually getting the team to finish third, and into the play off final. Now, I'm not disputing the fact that Blackwell isn't the world's greatest manager, but describing last season's performance as failure "to perform to previous seasons standards", when he actually surpassed the previous season's performances is ridiculous.

Unless you are suggesting that finishing third isn't better than finishing ninth then I can't see the logic of the argument that last season wasn't better than the one before. I know there are posters on this forum who wouldn't like Blackwell if we won the league at a canter, or if he shot himself in the face in the Kop end goalmouth, but to suggest that a third place finish means the team "failed to perform to previous seasons standards" of ninth place is astonishing to say the least.
Unless of course in your topsy-turvy world ninth place is better than third, and if you believe that then send me a personal message, because I have a bridge you might like to buy.

Again missed point ! During the season he tookover from Robson his wins per game ratio was far better than last and the reason they finished ninth was the fact that they were about 17th when he tookover in February!
In his first full season the side did not play as well or achieved the success that had been achieved the games he was in charge the season before!

 

[Come from away]

Lord what a standard. You expect Blackie to keep a winning streak going for an entire season!!!! We would have won the league by a clear 30 points. He'd be next in line after Fergie by now. With that sort of expectation even the god Coppell would fail - Lord help the next manager if he can't keep up with Blackie.

 

[alcoblade]

Given that it is clear Blackwell is around for a while all this speculative chat is not going to lead anywhere: it appeared that some felt they were the leading edge for change. Like I said, if we are still around 16th come Feb it might be on the cards but with planned investment in Jan nothing is coming before then.

Credit to you for contributing to a great debate in this thread.

I don't agree with this point. It's not at all clear that Blackwell will be around for a while. I'm sure McCabe wants to give him more time. But as we saw with Robson, when the fans turn it's difficult not to respond.

Car park demo's have started already. Maybe just the isolated prick right now, but the seal's broken. What if we muster just a few points from the next 5 and slip into relegation trouble (if we aren't already)? Add the pressure of the porkers sitting above us. Those demo's will swell, surely. And how many do you think the board would accept?

I think if we lost the next 5 (or maybe just one win) the pressure would be too great and he'd either walk or the fans would oust him. Surely that's not unrealistic enough to then say "it's clear Blackwell will be around for a while"?

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

I doubt that very much.

To be like Donny, no win in 9 but playing beautiful flowing passing football, would be as unacceptable as what we have now...

there must be a lot like me who were supportive but are now bored to tears with long ball and would be more patient with a better approach. Granted there'd be plenty not like me, but....

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Given that it is clear Blackwell is around for a while all this speculative chat is not going to lead anywhere: it appeared that some felt they were the leading edge for change. Like I said, if we are still around 16th come Feb it might be on the cards but with planned investment in Jan nothing is coming before then.

you have to consider that McCabe considered selling Beattie and buying Jamie Ward as investment. Now I for one supported that move, for financial reasons. I also think it paid off, as were were better without BT (controversial I know). But it's clear McCabe wasn't confident enough to sell it that way, so dressed it up as investment (or strengthening, or whatever). Clearly "investment" is a subjective term.

UTB

 

[shorehamview]

Again missed point !

Basically, the main point is that when he took over from Robson the results were better than the season after. I fail to see how ninth is better than third, but hey, that's just my way of doing the maths at the end of it all.

*EDIT* It has also been admitted by Blackwell that the team were never going to play the "shit or bust" style of the half season after Robson, so wondering why he didn't play the style of football he said we weren't going to play seems a strange one too.

 

[alcoblade]

It has also been admitted by Blackwell that the team were never going to play the "shit or bust" style of the half season after Robson

which is a shame, because that was very watchable. Last season the football was only bearable because of results. This season it's not bearable.

UTB

 

[Fiery Blade]

Basically, the main point is that when he took over from Robson the results were better than the season after. I fail to see how ninth is better than third, but hey, that's just my way of doing the maths at the end of it all.

*EDIT* It has also been admitted by Blackwell that the team were never going to play the "shit or bust" style of the half season after Robson, so wondering why he didn't play the style of football he said we weren't going to play seems a strange one too.

Exactly, hence my assertion that Blackwell does not operate well under pressure and perhaps he would do better than to introduce the 'shit or bust' tactics as you describe to get us back on the road up the league

 

[Come from away]

What the hell I'm still lookingfoward to Monday and I will worry about the manager later as I do not think it is the major issue just now, but managers are always the easiest target cause we know the manager can get fired - can't do that with players as easly. Will be great to watch and see what they do. UTB!

 

[Dog Blade]

What the hell I'm still lookingfoward to Monday and I will worry about the manager later as I do not think it is the major issue just now, but managers are always the easiest target cause we know the manager can get fired - can't do that with players as easly. Will be great to watch and see what they do. UTB!

Eh?! You drop the player(s) and bring in another or others...

The manager is the biggest problem at the moment

 

[Come from away]

Eh?! You drop the player(s) and bring in another or others...

The manager is the biggest problem at the moment

I know he hasn't scored too many of late but neither did he give any away. Think I'd fix the team first, just think folk have gone after the wrong target just cause it's an easy target. I see Strachan had an instant impact.

 

[Ollessendro]

Cat got your tongue Swiss Blade???

You still haven't answered my question(s).

Micalijo (and Fiery) in my post in question I did not have you two down as car park protestors. I do have you down as Blackwell knockers though. My belief (judegemnental as it is) is that there are some Blades that have never liked Blackwell and never given him a chance. I count you (both) in this (and hence why I put it in my post) and if I'm wrong then I apologise. I am not criticising here, it's your right as a fan to think what you want. If you think KB was the wrong move at the wrong time then it is up to you. What I was trying to point out to Swiss was that even 'moderate' Blades are turning against Blackwell. I personally was happy that Blackwell came in after Robson. I then thought he did well and deserved his chance. I have backed him all the way and am grateful for his last 2 seasons work. However, I now believe that he has taken us as far as he can and hence I can't see the point in him continuing. Many are calling for him to stay til the end of the season and be given the chance to turn things areound. I see the logic in this. However I don't care. I take a step back and look at the bigger picture. IMO the bigger picture is that Blackwell will not take us to the premiership. If by fluke he got us there, then he wouldn't keep us there. As this is our ultimate goal and he can't achieve it, then why keep him? For me it is a no brainer. He has to go. Sorrt Kevin you time is up. Thanks for your hard work ..... your P45 is in the post!?

 

[Revolution]

you have to consider that McCabe considered selling Beattie and buying Jamie Ward as investment. Now I for one supported that move, for financial reasons. I also think it paid off, as were were better without BT (controversial I know).

I don't think selling Beattie improved the team. Indeed, we fell out of the playoff places over the next few games. We improved when Sharp was dropped and Cotterill simultaneously reinstated. I am always surprised that more people don't acknowledge this, as there's a clear correlation between these changes and things improving.

And considering where we are now, I don't think it is fair to say that the move paid off.

But it's clear McCabe wasn't confident enough to sell it that way, so dressed it up as investment (or strengthening, or whatever). Clearly "investment" is a subjective term.

I don't think it was dressed up as anything other than a sale for financial reasons when the deal went through. It was called "reprofiling" in the press release issued at the time, but that was just a word they or their lawyers/accoutants plucked out of the air because saying outright you were selling for financial reasons was too unpalatable.

We have since been told, of course, by McCabe at the Q&A that we had to sell because Beattie's agent backed us into it.

It certainly aren't the main cause of our down turn, as still on paper we look strong.

There's no way the team looks as strong on paper as last seasons. 3 or 4 worse players in defence on any given week, no Halford in midfield (he's better than anyone else we have there now) and no Beattie up front.

Like it or not, overall this is a worse collection of players. Some of this is not the fault of the club (Naysmith, Kenny), but it's still true.

 

[Bladesway]

Olle, good post. I don't agree with all of it but it respects all quarters for their viewpoints and I think it makes a good point of people not giving Blackwell a chance in the first place. People should give him credit for what he did in his first season and a half. Saving us from the mess Robson left us in was a credit to him. Play off final for me was all we could have expected from last season and lets be honest its a bloody lottery whether you get through or not.

This season is turning out to be a different matter though. We need to turn things around and do it quickly. How that is done we will all disagree on no doubt, but I feel McCabe should take more accountability for the manager he gave the job to rather than stepping away from everything and giving undying loyalty to Blackwell.

If he thinks he is the man he should give him the season, no questions asked but if he has doubts he should get rid now. He is the man who gave Blackwell a contract extension that even the Pro Blackwell mob thought was mad.

My solution would be for McCabe to say "I employed KB and I believe he is the man to take us forwards. To this ends he has the rest of the season to get the squad in the play offs as a minimum."

Stops the fans in their tracks because then we all know where we stand. Hopefully galvanises the team around the manager knowing he has the season to sort things out.

Blackwell knows what is expected of him and knows its public knowledge rather than a wink and a nod between the two of them.

Perhaps I am wanting something that will never happen, doesn't mean it isn't the right way forward though.