Alleged Racist Chanting - BBC Radio Sheffield

[blade62]

For what it's worth I'd agree and I'd also criticise the Star for taking at face value the report of only one fan on such an incendiary issue. They report that 'a few hundred' fans sang 'chants' from the 'South Stand near the away terrace' when the consensus on here seems to be that no more than a quarter of that number sang one chant from the back of the kop.

The way these debates become so polarised and reactionary however means that attempts to get facts in order before moving forward leads to accusations of condoning the chants. I think it's pretty shocking of the Star to run an article like that off the report of one fan, and only adding the extra voice of someone who wasn't at the game. Whatever your opinion is of how serious these chants are (there are obviously differing views), that kind of journalism, however unsurprising from the publication, is at best shoddy and unprofessional and at worst dangerous.

I was sat with family in the Westfield corner for this match and I didn't hear any type of racist chanting from that end of the south stand, nor anything from the kop for that matter as the Bradford fans were loud enough to drown it out most of the time

 

[blade too long]

It should be totally ignored if its just one person griping
Any one can cast aspersions in a petty we lost I know Ill say they were racist way
Surely it need confirming by at least 4 people complaining they heard it , and not just a group of mates
I remember some Leeds fans saying blades fans had stabbed someone
was a complete fabrication
as this appears to be, a storm in a saucer , never mind a tea cup

 

[vorpal blade]

I don't think the club should announce that they will ban any of the singers - they don't stand a chance of catching them if they do.

After all, if they want to find out whether it was intended as racist or not, they'll have to ask the ring-leaders. Notwithstanding that the law may hinge on whether or not anyone was offended or not by the song not the intention of the singers.

Of course, had an interpretation of the chants not been broadcast by the gentlemen of the press and TV, then no one in Bradford; Moslem, Gentile or whatever, would have been insulted by them would they?

If it was 'ISIS' that was sung, its very marginal, was probably intended as a 'joke' and surely it wouldn't lead to a court-case so why should it result in a ban for the singers?

 

[mosbolad]

Or, if said Blade was actually sure what they heard they could have contacted the Club and reported it to the Club which is what most people would do .......

UTB & FTP

Which is exactly what he says he did Darth.

'Mr Mohamed has said he sent an email about the chanting to Sheffield United but has not received a reply.'

Read more: http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local...at-bradford-city-game-1-7648694#ixzz3vpMnyXub

 

[Mendi]

Not nice hope the scum bags, get life bans.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Just to add my two penneth.............interesting thread btw - are we wanting to ban supporters for chanting ISIS ?

We were in G block and there was no chanting at all from South Stand - IMO

I heard "A town full of ***IS" - the first bit just didn't carry to South Stand - and my ears are excellent. Sounded like it came from top left of the kop if looking from the pitch.

Not nice hope the scum bags, get life bans.

Life bans for what exactly?

UTB

 

[PeteBlade]

It may have passed you by .... but the local media are rabidly pro-Pig and anti-United and have been for years. Any excuse to stir up trouble for us is pounced upon with vigour, even down to printing unsubstantiated facts.

That .... is why there is completely justified bitterness towards radio Pig and the Wedne**ay Star.

There ..... that's sorted that one out for you

UTB & FTP

No. They aren't.
And no. They haven't been.

 

[Darthblade]

No. They aren't.
And no. They haven't been.

I regret to disagree with you my dear chap .....

UTB & FTP

 

[Blade56]

Well done to those who have helped blow this out of all proportion.

Totally agree D. Posts like A14B's don't help

The Conservative government's Minister for Racism, Oliver Letwin, has apparently released a statement! Here it is, hot off the presses:

"I'd like to say, on behalf of her majesty's government, how delighted we are that a small number of Sheffield United fans are keeping the spirit of 1970s racism alive in our present era.

Respect bruvs. Racism rools. Tories4eva."

Out of order linking bigoted views with SUFC.

I have to be honest ive always waded in to these debates on the side of the star and radio sheffield but even im starting to get fucked off with how readily they seem to believe anything derogatory about our fans

Reporting racist chanting appears to be unfounded or suppressed by true fans doesn't make a story for last jurno's though judge!

 

[Barney]

It may have passed you by .... but the local media are rabidly pro-Pig and anti-United and have been for years. Any excuse to stir up trouble for us is pounced upon with vigour, even down to printing unsubstantiated facts.

That .... is why there is completely justified bitterness towards radio Pig and the Wedne**ay Star.

There ..... that's sorted that one out for you

UTB & FTP

I think it's quote cringeworthy to accuse the local radio of being pro-pig, when in actual fact all they're doing is covering both bases. It's pretty childish not to be able to understand and get your head around that. I've listened to Football Heaven for many years and I haven't experienced a single thing to have made me think they're in favour of one or the other. You're always going to get a select few never being able to accept discussions on other teams. A bit of growing up needs to be done.

 

[grafikhaus]

Toby Foster show back on Monday on Radio Sheffield...

I Wonder what the phone in subject will be...?

Who's the fattest waste of space, Foster or Bradford's chairman?

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Totally agree D. Posts like A14B's don't help

Out of order linking bigoted views with SUFC.

Think you're taking that particular post more seriously than it warrants, 56. It was meant light-heartedly.

In saying that, I've got no problem in calling out the very small number of bigots who did the chanting for the bigots they are. No place or need for racist chants at the Lane whatsoever (as the club has confirmed in its statement). What's a bit surprising is the hard-headed minority who insist on defending the bigots their "rights".

Not that, personally, I'd want to see them given lifetime bans or owt as draconian as that. I'd prefer they just learnt the error of their ways & realise the vast majority of Blades are more than happy with our overwhelmingly non-racist club & want nothing to do with racist chanting.

 

[mosbolad]

My query with the example " Fred is the manager of a local shop. He doesn't hire Asians because he thinks they are unreliable. Fred is racist. " would be;
He would probably deny racism on the grounds that he's not employing an Asian person because he believes that they're unreliable, not because they're an Asian.

Darth, 2 questions.

Which race does the shopkeeper believe to be unreliable?

And he is not employing that person because they belong to the ....... race?

I'll give you a clue, it rhymes with Harry Gration......

I'm not quite sure you have got your head round this one Darth.

 

[Darthblade]

I think it's quote cringeworthy to accuse the local radio of being pro-pig, when in actual fact all they're doing is covering both bases. It's pretty childish not to be able to understand and get your head around that. I've listened to Football Heaven for many years and I haven't experienced a single thing to have made me think they're in favour of one or the other. You're always going to get a select few never being able to accept discussions on other teams. A bit of growing up needs to be done.

Well ...... if you enjoy listening to radio Pig, who am I to deny you that pleasure in life ..... indulge yourself.

And if you've never felt that the local media have a Pig bias ...... well that's great too, you've obviously not been offended.

I shall return to my "childish" world of the "select few" and I can assure you that you haven't offended me one little bit ..........

UTB & FTP

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Agree totally. Whilst not playing down the importance of anything racist, we should be highlighting the positive response of the majority.

I think the club could come out of this fairly well. Apologise for any upset caused by a very small minority of people in the ground and state something along the lines of they will do all in their power to root them out and take action. State that this is not something which happens at BDTBL, that they work tirelessly with "kick it out" and that they abhor any racial comments as do, clearly, the vast majority of Sheffield United supporters, many of who ensured that the chant was stopped immediately and no further racist remarks were heard thanks to their actions.

Brilliant post.

 

[prince albert]

Just to add my two penneth.............interesting thread btw - are we wanting to ban supporters for chanting ISIS ?

We were in G block and there was no chanting at all from South Stand - IMO

I heard "A town full of ***IS" - the first bit just didn't carry to South Stand - and my ears are excellent. Sounded like it came from top left of the kop if looking from the pitch.



Life bans for what exactly?

UTB

wer'e in G block south stand, bloke who lodged complaint also in south stand,star reports a couple of hundred in G&H were singing town full of isis? well i didnt hear owt from this section and only about ten seconds worth from kop which was quickly shouted down but i'm sat a bit closer to the kop and my ear's are bigger than your's

 

[Darthblade]

Darth, 2 questions.

Which race does the shopkeeper believe to be unreliable?

And he is not employing that person because they belong to the ....... race?

I'll give you a clue, it rhymes with Harry Gration......

I'm not quite sure you have got your head round this one Darth.

I have most certainly got my head round it .........

The shopkeeper ( in the example ) is declining to employ a person because the shopkeeper believes Asian people to be unreliable ....... that's correct for the theoretical scenario isn't it ?

So he's therefore not employing the person because he believes Asian people to be unreliable. Not just because they're an Asian person.

Surely that's a personal opinion ( whether it's true or not is immaterial ) not an act of racism ?

Whats your opinion ..... you may have interpreted the scenario differently to me ?

UTB & FTP

 

[Barney]

I have most certainly got my head round it .........

The shopkeeper ( in the example ) is declining to employ a person because the shopkeeper believes Asian people to be unreliable ....... that's correct for the theoretical scenario isn't it ?

So he's therefore not employing the person because he believes Asian people to be unreliable. Not just because they're an Asian person.

Surely that's a personal opinion ( whether it's true or not is immaterial ) not an act of racism ?

Whats your opinion ..... you may have interpreted the scenario differently to me ?

UTB & FTP

Concluding that asian people are unreliable on the basis of one that perhaps is unreliable is as clean cut racist as you'll ever get in my opinion. That means he'd be dismissing potential employees purely on racial grounds, racial grounds stemming from an opinion that rests on 1 member of an entire race. It's absolutely unthinkable to claim that isn't racist.

 

[mosbolad]

I have most certainly got my head round it .........

The shopkeeper ( in the example ) is declining to employ a person because the shopkeeper believes Asian people to be unreliable ....... that's correct for the theoretical scenario isn't it ?

So he's therefore not employing the person because he believes Asian people to be unreliable. Not just because they're an Asian person.

Surely that's a personal opinion ( whether it's true or not is immaterial ) not an act of racism ?

Whats your opinion ..... you may have interpreted the scenario differently to me ?

UTB & FTP

Darth I appreciate you are genuinely discussing this and sorry if my previous response was a little sarcastic, although anytime I can get Harry Gration into a post I will do.

Anyway, I didn't have to go too far into the Race Relations Act 1976 to get the answer.

Part I Discrimination To Which Act Applies
1 Racial discrimination.

(1)A person discriminates against another in any circumstances relevant for the purposes of any provision of this Act if—

(a)on racial grounds he treats that other less favourably than he treats or would treat other persons;

The shopkeeper is racially discriminating in that he believes that an Asian employee would be unreliable therefore he refuses to employ Asians. I can't think how it could be more clear cut. It is an irrelevance that he genuinely holds this belief.

If you want further reading all 300 sections then..... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/74

By the way I blame Fatty William Henry Foulkes for this and his bloody shop!

 

[hoylandblade]

since when is it racial to chant, talk, txt, etc etc about a load of murdering twats!!!!!

 

[Blade56]

Think you're taking that particular post more seriously than it warrants, 56. It was meant light-heartedly.

In saying that, I've got no problem in calling out the very small number of bigots who did the chanting for the bigots they are. No place or need for racist chants at the Lane whatsoever (as the club has confirmed in its statement). What's a bit surprising is the hard-headed minority who insist on defending the bigots their "rights".

Not that, personally, I'd want to see them given lifetime bans or owt as draconian as that. I'd prefer they just learnt the error of their ways & realise the vast majority of Blades are more than happy with our overwhelmingly non-racist club & want nothing to do with racist chanting.

Enjoy your posts and banter usually A14B. Just think this is one of those occasions your words could be used against you/SUFC even though it was in jest, unfortunately the PC brigade rule these days

 

[HillmortonBlade]

All I can offer to this is that HBJnr and I sit on the Kop (Row TT, block E, look for the ugly bearded bloke in his lucky Texans hat) and I heard a short rendition of "Town full of ISIS" very briefly and not very loud. I've checked with Jnr, who is fully aware of such matters and he says he heard "Town full of.... something indecipherable".

But after twenty five years of sitting on various parts of BDTBL, I can put my hand on my PC heart and say I have heard very little racist chants from where I sit.

 

[Bladepicker]

There is no debate about whether the songs were racist. They were not about the muderous cult of ISIS as some have said, they were obviously making the point that they believe that Bradford is full of ISIS sympathisers as it has a large proportion of brown people living there.

My issue is totally with how this is being reported in the media. As others have said, what should be reported is how a handful of idiots sang an unacceptable chant that at the very least had racial connotations and 24 thousand others didn't join in, told them to shut it and reported them. Well done us.

Remember playing Liverpool at Anfield under Bassett and about 3 quarters of the away end was singing 'I'd rather be a Paki than a Scouse' while I stood there uncomfortably.

Now it's thankfully just a handful and they are reported by ourselves. Just shows how far we have come - shame some attitudes on this and the other thread seek to almost defend the actions of this minority, and even question why they were reported. Dissapoints me to be honest. Well done the majority. Proud to be a Blade.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

Remember playing Liverpool at Anfield under Bassett and about 3 quarters of the away end was singing 'I'd rather be a Paki than a Scouse' while I stood there uncomfortably.

I heard this sang on the Kop once (you have reminded me) and a fellow Blade stood up and turned to face the singers (for obvious reasons) and the racist minority were immediately drowned out by a rendition of "And E;s a Blade and E's a Blade". Me and Mrs HB joined in.

A very obvious message to those who condemn somebody for some half-baked reason

 

[PeteBlade]

I also find it a bit odd to refer to those condemning the chanting as "political".

It's absolutely bugger all to do with politics and everything to do with not agreeing with clearly racist chanting by a very small minority of morons who probably can't spell political never mind have any kind of deep ranging thoughts on the subject.

 

[MBoreman]

After all, if they want to find out whether it was intended as racist or not, they'll have to ask the ring-leaders. Notwithstanding that the law may hinge on whether or not anyone was offended or not by the song not the intention of the singers.

Ridiculous post, it's irrelevant what they say their intention was, it's a racist chant. No two ways about it.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

I also find it a bit odd to refer to those condemning the chanting as "political".

It's absolutely bugger all to do with politics and everything to do with not agreeing with clearly racist chanting by a very small minority of morons who probably can't spell political never mind have any kind of deep ranging thoughts on the subject.

Spot on.

 

[MBoreman]

You are having a remarkably grown up discussion about this very complex issue, which I applaud wholeheartedly. It usually descends into name-calling

My query with the example " Fred is the manager of a local shop. He doesn't hire Asians because he thinks they are unreliable. Fred is racist. " would be;

In this example, although many frothing at the mouth types would label Fred as being racist, I don't think he would identify with that label at all. He would probably deny racism on the grounds that he's not employing an Asian person because he believes that they're unreliable, not because they're an Asian.

Discuss .......

UTB & FTP

I'm sorry, but you're making yourself look a complete imbecile on this post. You've effectively just described racism then questioned whether it's racist. Thinking someone is inferior because of their race is the definition of racism.

 

[MBoreman]

I have most certainly got my head round it .........

The shopkeeper ( in the example ) is declining to employ a person because the shopkeeper believes Asian people to be unreliable ....... that's correct for the theoretical scenario isn't it ?

So he's therefore not employing the person because he believes Asian people to be unreliable. Not just because they're an Asian person.

Surely that's a personal opinion ( whether it's true or not is immaterial ) not an act of racism ?

Whats your opinion ..... you may have interpreted the scenario differently to me ?

UTB & FTP

I hope you're above 65 or you've no excuse.

 

[MBoreman]

Why are people still talking about 'alleged' and 'if it happened'? I was on the halfway line and heard it loud and clear from top corner of the Kop.