Alleged Racist Chanting - BBC Radio Sheffield

[Bladeloyal]

More worrying was the presence of police on the kop yesterday complete with sniffer dogs....

Private security firm with the dogs ,whatever you do don't take Winerlot on the Kop .

 

[metalblade]

No wonder our players can't stay on their feet when they are slipping on all the banana's thrown from 20,000 racists.

 

[jt64]

Private security firm with the dogs ,whatever you do don't take Winerlot on the Kop .

Well there certainly isn't Winalot in the dressing room

 

[Darthblade]

The Conservative government's Minister for Racism, Oliver Letwin, has apparently released a statement! Here it is, hot off the presses:

"I'd like to say, on behalf of her majesty's government, how delighted we are that a small number of Sheffield United fans are keeping the spirit of 1970s racism alive in our present era. Congratulations too to the slightly wider minority who are standing up on their behalf and defending their Right to be Racist. We want a Britain we can be proud of, a 1970s Racist Britain and you few are playing your part in this glorious cause.

If I might take a leaf out of my friend and colleague David Cameron's book in adopting the folk idioms of 'the people' (as when he famously quoted the line: 'You ain't no Muslim, bruv') may I just repeat that wonderful and poetic sentence that those brave Sheffield United few chanted on Monday: 'Bradford, you're just a town full of ISIS'.

Respect bruvs. Racism rools. Tories4eva."

Well I don't know about you but I'm a Blade but I'm not a Tory, and neither am I a hand-wringer ......

UTB & FTP

 

[OllyBlade]

And the fat knob chairman of Bradford adds monkey chants into the argument and he WASN'T EVEN AT THE GAME !

To reiterate a point made above, he has not said that there was monkey chanting on Monday. He instead compared the ISIS chant to monkey noises, which you may argue is a false equivalence but that's a different debate.

 

[Darthblade]

Well there certainly isn't Winalot in the dressing room

T y v m ...... for that one mate .... I just sprayed coffee all over my monitor and nearly pissed myself

Can I please give you 10 likes ?

UTB & FTP

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Don't understand the petulant bitterness towards the media.

I can see no unfair generalization of the entire fanbase whatsoever. Both outlets have clearly indicated just how few of these idiots there were.

They're reporting on a very serious and topical subject, that tends to be the role of newspapers and radio stations.

BLOODY HELL I NEARLY FELL OFF MY CHAIR. I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH BARNEY ABOUT SOMETHING!

 

[metalblade]

To reiterate a point made above, he has not said that there was monkey chanting on Monday. He instead compared the ISIS chant to monkey noises, which you may argue is a false equivalence but that's a different debate.

He has no need to comment he was not at the game, but we all know that the pig biased Star will make any sort of comment look like he was at the game and heard monkey noises just to embellish a dud story.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I'm not defending the chanting just saying how can you be offended by summat you haven't heard.

If he'd heard it he would remember what had offended him.

His words this morning on RS - "it was either the 'P' word or ISIS.






It was either Sheffield United or Bradford who won a throw in?
No idea but it happened and I'm offended.

Many fans discussed what was sung as not everyone heard it clearly. It is clear that they sung ISIS, Pakis or both. I think that's pretty much established as fact. I therefore don't see that it matters whether he personally could distinguish which of the two it was.

 

[blade too long]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...sed-by-british-police-relatives-10334499.html
is it wrong to mock a fact
didnt rotherham get mocked for the child abuse ,groomed in a taxi
wasnt bradford sung about the yorkshire ripper
leeds a town full of Savilles

these are just social comment jibes, nothing at all to do with ethnicity, race is thrown at every thing today its ridiculous

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Disappointing but not surprising. (If I understand it correctly.)

Ultimately thus, in part, is a debate about what constitutes banter isn't it?

Words can be used and understood by one or both parties to be either hate speech or banter.

There are at least four possible scenarios:

Both understand it to be hate speech.
Intended to be hate speech. Understood as banter.
Intended to be banter. Understood as hate speech.
Intended as banter. Understood as banter.

The ruling above seems simplistic to me. Though I may misunderstand it.

I’d say the Judgment is qualified in saying “In the normal course of events” and “ordinarily”. That creates a level of leeway where a Judge could consider the intentions of the parties. References to threatening/insulting/hostile are also relevant. If it is clear something was intended and likely to be received as banter, a Judge would have the power not to convict. Personally, I don’t think for a minute that this would qualify for any such leeway. I’m thinking more along the lines of Spurs fans referring to themselves as the Yid Army as they are clearly not looking to cause offence or distress or to persecute others in chanting that.

 

[Darthblade]

The thing is, it isn't out of proportion. I don't know if it was done with racist intent, maybe it wasn't, maybe those who started it did so intending it as "banter" (I'm not sure that makes it any better to be honest, but I'll roll with it). In this day and age, with the media crawling over anything to do with race, this would have been stupid in the extreme at any large event. But at football? This was never going to end well, and the only people who should be blamed for the reaction, are those who were chanting!

Lets get this in perspective ......

So therefore, on this basis .... every time any of us that are at a football match are offended or upset either personally or on behalf of others ..... should complain about this to the media, kick it out, the police, and the football club where we were in attendance ?

My Lord ( no offence intended to anybody ) ....... there are not going to be enough officials in the WORLD to investigate these cases after ONE weekend of the football league program ....

UTB & FTP

 

[1danewhitehouse]

This is close to how I see it.

But if those people in that situation are required to modify their banter then where does that stop?

There are a couple of posters on here who put up some "extreme" stuff, but generally the intent and context are understood.

Otoh some posts I think are genuinely nasty, and almost certainly criminal.

It wouldn't take much to trawl through posts here and start all sorts of mudslinging accusations.

We have laws that decide where it stops although admittedly, there are some grey areas within those laws that leave matters open to judicial discretion. I don’t think this is one of those circumstances though. The behavior is outside the realms of anything likely to be deemed OK and certainly criminal.




I agree there have almost certainly been posts on here that are criminal.

 

[judge]

Porktalk now

 

[wizadry]

BLOODY HELL I NEARLY FELL OFF MY CHAIR. I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH BARNEY ABOUT SOMETHING!

You pig

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Lets get this in perspective ......

So therefore, on this basis .... every time any of us that are at a football match are offended or upset either personally or on behalf of others ..... should complain about this to the media, kick it out, the police, and the football club where we were in attendance ?

My Lord ( no offence intended to anybody ) ....... there are not going to be enough officials in the WORLD to investigate these cases after ONE weekend of the football league program ....

UTB & FTP

I'd say it should only be investigated if the offensive action is potentially criminal which in this case it is.

 

[blade too long]

I should complain about ref abuse , this race of people get severely racially abused, on a regular basis

 

[metalblade]

All we need now is Jean Hatchet to put her tuppence worth in

 

[Bladeloyal]

Many fans discussed what was sung as not everyone heard it clearly. It is clear that they sung ISIS, Pakis or both. I think that's pretty much established as fact. I therefore don't see that it matters whether he personally could distinguish which of the two it was.

It's clear they sung Isis that is all .and it's clear the 20 young lads are as thick as fook .

 

[Bladeloyal]

All we need now is Jean Hatchet to put her tuppence worth in

Now now metal ,Jean doesn't have a tuppence

 

[OllyBlade]

He has no need to comment he was not at the game, but we all know that the pig biased Star will make any sort of comment look like he was at the game and heard monkey noises just to embellish a dud story.

For what it's worth I'd agree and I'd also criticise the Star for taking at face value the report of only one fan on such an incendiary issue. They report that 'a few hundred' fans sang 'chants' from the 'South Stand near the away terrace' when the consensus on here seems to be that no more than a quarter of that number sang one chant from the back of the kop.

The way these debates become so polarised and reactionary however means that attempts to get facts in order before moving forward leads to accusations of condoning the chants. I think it's pretty shocking of the Star to run an article like that off the report of one fan, and only adding the extra voice of someone who wasn't at the game. Whatever your opinion is of how serious these chants are (there are obviously differing views), that kind of journalism, however unsurprising from the publication, is at best shoddy and unprofessional and at worst dangerous.

 

[Darthblade]

I agree extreme left wing is also dangerous. Extremism isn’t helpful to society.


I believe in balance whatever the subject. Capitalism or communism? Somewhere in between for me. Clapper or Slasher? Somewhere in between for me. Adkins the hero or a clown? Somewhere in between for me. Degrading or victimizing people based on skin colour, nationality, sexuality, gender or any other state that one is born to? Abhorrent. No in-betweens on that front.

" Degrading or victimizing people based on skin colour, nationality, sexuality, gender or any other state that one is born to? Abhorrent. No in-betweens on that front. "

But ..... and here is the question ...... do we add to that list things like; their weight, their height, the colour of their hair, if they have a pony tail, if their hair is long and unkempt, if they are ugly ( Ian Dowie ) and many more ??

Any of those things may cause offence / upset / anger ........or all three !!

This is why I say ..... keep politics out of football ....

UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Said Blade contacted the club, FURD, Kick it out etc. I can’t believe said Blade is being made the scapegoat here. The chanting was abhorrent and deserves to be reported. Well done Ramon Mohamed.

He himself said that he wasn't sure what he heard ...... that was in his interview.

UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Don't understand the petulant bitterness towards the media.

I can see no unfair generalization of the entire fanbase whatsoever. Both outlets have clearly indicated just how few of these idiots there were.

They're reporting on a very serious and topical subject, that tends to be the role of newspapers and radio stations.

It may have passed you by .... but the local media are rabidly pro-Pig and anti-United and have been for years. Any excuse to stir up trouble for us is pounced upon with vigour, even down to printing unsubstantiated facts.

That .... is why there is completely justified bitterness towards radio Pig and the Wedne**ay Star.

There ..... that's sorted that one out for you

UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Now now metal ,Jean doesn't have a tuppence

I hope you're not suggesting that somebody should put twopence worth in on Jean's behalf without her written authorisation ??

UTB & FTP

 

[judge]

I have to be honest ive always waded in to these debates on the side of the star and radio sheffield but even im starting to get fucked off with how readily they seem to believe anything derogatory about our fans

The ched evans reporting was bear baiting at best and i can remember many a time that grunters have been involved in racist incidents and its barely got a mention in the local news

Remember one incident with two porkers on a train causing havoc that barely provoked a response from our intrepid news force

 

[Tyler Durden]

I have to be honest ive always waded in to these debates on the side of the star and radio sheffield but even im starting to get fucked off with how readily they seem to believe anything derogatory about our fans

The ched evans reporting was bear baiting at best and i can remember many a time that grunters have been involved in racist incidents and its barely got a mention in the local news

Remember one incident with two porkers on a train causing havoc that barely provoked a response from our intrepid news force

Or the lad from Leeds who was killed outside Lloyds by 3 Pigs.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

For what it's worth I'd agree and I'd also criticise the Star for taking at face value the report of only one fan on such an incendiary issue. They report that 'a few hundred' fans sang 'chants' from the 'South Stand near the away terrace' when the consensus on here seems to be that no more than a quarter of that number sang one chant from the back of the kop.

The way these debates become so polarised and reactionary however means that attempts to get facts in order before moving forward leads to accusations of condoning the chants. I think it's pretty shocking of the Star to run an article like that off the report of one fan, and only adding the extra voice of someone who wasn't at the game. Whatever your opinion is of how serious these chants are (there are obviously differing views), that kind of journalism, however unsurprising from the publication, is at best shoddy and unprofessional and at worst dangerous.

Great post.

 

[UnitedBlade]

I know what I heard from a few on the Kop towards the end of the game and it's disappointing.

The club are investigating and if they can prove individuals were involved they will be banned. It's against ground regulations and an offence. They only have themselves to blame.

All this bad publicity should put a lid on it for the future.

Then we can all get back to football hopefully.

 

[chesblade]

We sit on south stand near dugout but didn't hear any of this. Watched match again on bladesplayer but no sound am sure original copies should pick up anything if this did happen