Alleged Racist Chanting - BBC Radio Sheffield

[1danewhitehouse]

It should be totally ignored if its just one person griping
Any one can cast aspersions in a petty we lost I know Ill say they were racist way
Surely it need confirming by at least 4 people complaining they heard it , and not just a group of mates
I remember some Leeds fans saying blades fans had stabbed someone
was a complete fabrication
as this appears to be, a storm in a saucer , never mind a tea cup

Just look at the threads on here and on other social media. Enough people heard to confirm it happened. Going all porktalk and trying to hush it up is not the way to handle it. These idiots need shaming. It’s a shame it also damages the reputation of our club but it’s the fault of the idiots who did the chanting. Nobody else.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I have most certainly got my head round it .........

The shopkeeper ( in the example ) is declining to employ a person because the shopkeeper believes Asian people to be unreliable ....... that's correct for the theoretical scenario isn't it ?

So he's therefore not employing the person because he believes Asian people to be unreliable. Not just because they're an Asian person.

Surely that's a personal opinion ( whether it's true or not is immaterial ) not an act of racism ?

Whats your opinion ..... you may have interpreted the scenario differently to me ?

UTB & FTP

WOW. Did I really just read that?

I suggest a lot more reading on this subject and a lot less posting until said reading has been done.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

There is no debate about whether the songs were racist. They were not about the muderous cult of ISIS as some have said, they were obviously making the point that they believe that Bradford is full of ISIS sympathisers as it has a large proportion of brown people living there.

My issue is totally with how this is being reported in the media. As others have said, what should be reported is how a handful of idiots sang an unacceptable chant that at the very least had racial connotations and 24 thousand others didn't join in, told them to shut it and reported them. Well done us.

Remember playing Liverpool at Anfield under Bassett and about 3 quarters of the away end was singing 'I'd rather be a Paki than a Scouse' while I stood there uncomfortably.

Now it's thankfully just a handful and they are reported by ourselves. Just shows how far we have come - shame some attitudes on this and the other thread seek to almost defend the actions of this minority, and even question why they were reported. Dissapoints me to be honest. Well done the majority. Proud to be a Blade.

Good post. Agree entirely. It’s a shame the moronic few reflect badly on the majority who conducted themselves well, got behind the team, created good atmosphere and silenced the moronic few.


But the more surprising shame for me, as you touch upon is the fact that some seem to want to defend or at least want to hush up the actions of those few and seek to attack those who condemn them,.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

By the way, if it is just a few doesn't make it any better.

I disagree, if more of our fanbase were racist, things would be worse in my opinion. Less of anything bad is always preferable to more. But we should be dealing with none.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It hasn't been clearly established what was said.

It hasn't been clearly established that it was racist.

Either of those could earn an 'allegedly'.

One of the chants (Isis) has been clearly established. There appears to be some doubt about the other one (pakis).



There is little doubt that they are both racist chants in the context they were sung in. No need for an allegedly.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Absolutely not the case. We are in JSS kop end. There were 2 very brief chants.....'town full of ISIS'....then 'stand up if you hate ISIS'.. Stupid but not racist.

You can say “not racist” as much as you want. It doesn’t change the fact that by any reasonable interpretation it is, or at the very least, islamaphobic prejudiced bigotry. I thought I heard “pakis”. So do some others. It could be that there was a mix of people singing ISIS/Pakis depending on if those who joined could also have misheard those who started the chant.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

I bet they get 'town flowing with Isis' chanted at them all the time in Oxford.

Similar problem in Harbin, China. Town full of Ices.




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/t...stival-ll-quick-want-start-melting-weeks.html

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

One of the chants (Isis) has been clearly established. There appears to be some doubt about the other one (pakis).



There is little doubt that they are both racist chants in the context they were sung in. No need for an allegedly.

Something derogatory was chanted. Judging from the posts on here ISIS is most likely, but it's not clear.

The alleged racism has not been established at all and is disputed by numerous posters across several threads for various reasons.

 

[Blade59]

Few thoughts on this.

Why did the guy who complained not just let the club deal with it rather than go to the media.

Do the Star and RS not have their own journalists at the game. If hundreds had been singing it in the South stand as reported then surely they would have heard it as this is where the press are based.

Why ask for a quote from someone not even at the game (BCFC chairman). Why even mention monkey chants when no one has even alleged there were any.

Suggesting that this is like going back to racism in the 70's and 80's is complete nonsense as those of who were there back then can testify.

 

[TJB.]

One of the chants (Isis) has been clearly established. There appears to be some doubt about the other one (pakis).

No doubt in my mind. As I stated on another thread, it was the 'paki' song first, followed by the 'ISIS' song 10 seconds later. Some bright sparks heard the first and came up with the second, hence why it's blatant racism.

This was heard from my seat at the very back row of gangway E. I can't speak for any other areas of the ground as I was trying to concentrate on a game of football.

 

[wizadry]

One of the chants (Isis) has been clearly established. There appears to be some doubt about the other one (pakis).



There is little doubt that they are both racist chants in the context they were sung in. No need for an allegedly.

Just clear this up for me mate because i'm a little confused, how can singing a town full of isis be racist when Bradford has been well publicised for having scumbags who want to join them? Stupid and moronic, which could provoke something but it sure aswell isn't racist in my book.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I can catagorically say that there was no mention of 'Pakis' whatsoever. And certainly no monkey chanting as Bradfords fat controller has lied about.
Furthermore, it was a few seconds of ISIS chants by a handful of morons who were pretty isolated by rest of the crowd. Sheffield United simply do not have a sizeable racist element in their fansbase and never have. Indeed the location of where the club is based and fair few of the areas from which we draw our support means that we've had fans from all walks of life coming through the turnstiles for the past 60 odd years.

BUT

As I've tried explaining already, the ISIS chanting might not class as a dictionary definition of racism but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to know what the intent behind it is. In the minds of the idiots, the logic goes like this: Bradford = Asians = Muslims = ISIS.
Defining a group of people by this standard and equating them with an evil terrorist organisation has the EXACT SAME EFFECT as any form of racism or prejudice.
It's fucking idiotic and drags us all into the dirt. So let's stop fucking around with semantics and technicalities.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Just clear this up for me mate because i'm a little confused, how can singing a town full of isis be racist when Bradford has been well publicised for having scumbags who want to join them? Stupid and moronic, which could provoke something but as sure as well isn't racist in my book.

You really think that was the motivation for the song and not the high Pakistani contingent in Bradford?

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Few thoughts on this.

Why did the guy who complained not just let the club deal with it rather than go to the media.

Do the Star and RS not have their own journalists at the game. If hundreds had been singing it in the South stand as reported then surely they would have heard it as this is where the press are based.

Why ask for a quote from someone not even at the game (BCFC chairman). Why even mention monkey chants when no one has even alleged there were any.

Suggesting that this is like going back to racism in the 70's and 80's is complete nonsense as those of who were there back then can testify.

Agree with mistnof that esp the bit about local journalists.

Tbf the complainant did say he had emailed the club but not received a reply.

(Who he emailed and how long he waited are relevant questions.)

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I can catagorically say that there was no mention of 'Pakis' whatsoever.

How?

Maybe you didn't hear it but how can you categorically say it didn't happen? Others seem convinced they did hear it. I thought I heard it but could be wrong. I don't understand how anyone can categorically say it didn't happen.

For what it's worth, I generally agree with the rest of your post.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

I can categorically say that there was no mention of 'Pakis' whatsoever. And certainly no monkey chanting as Bradfords fat controller has lied about.
Furthermore, it was a few seconds of ISIS chants by a handful of morons who were pretty isolated by rest of the crowd. Sheffield United simply do not have a sizeable racist element in their fansbase and never have.

Bang on the money (I even corrected the misspelt 'categorically' as a gesture of goodwill due to the posts 'bang on the moniness).

 

[yorkshirecoast]

You can say “not racist” as much as you want. It doesn’t change the fact that by any reasonable interpretation it is, or at the very least, islamaphobic prejudiced bigotry. I thought I heard “pakis”. So do some others. It could be that there was a mix of people singing ISIS/Pakis depending on if those who joined could also have misheard those who started the chant.

Sounds to me like you wanted to hear the word 'Pakis' so you could spout your politically driven views.

There was no use of the word 'Pakis'. I can only assume some people jumped to that conclusion because that was the word used when the song was sung by many clubs years ago.

You can disagree with me and others all you want. My abiding memory of the match is a great win and great support.

 

[wizadry]

You really think that was the motivation for the song and not the high Pakistani contingent in Bradford?

I can't say for sure mate but for me it wouldn't be seen as racist. Like i said previously, it could certainly provoke something, that i have no doubt but for people to say it's racist when they don't even know the facts is a bit ridiculous.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I can catagorically say that there was no mention of 'Pakis' whatsoever. And certainly no monkey chanting as Bradfords fat controller has lied about.
Furthermore, it was a few seconds of ISIS chants by a handful of morons who were pretty isolated by rest of the crowd. Sheffield United simply do not have a sizeable racist element in their fansbase and never have. Indeed the location of where the club is based and fair few of the areas from which we draw our support means that we've had fans from all walks of life coming through the turnstiles for the past 60 odd years.

BUT

As I've tried explaining already, the ISIS chanting might not class as a dictionary definition of racism but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to know what the intent behind it is. In the minds of the idiots, the logic goes like this: Bradford = Asians = Muslims = ISIS.
Defining a group of people by this standard and equating them with an evil terrorist organisation has the EXACT SAME EFFECT as any form of racism or prejudice.
It's fucking idiotic and drags us all into the dirt. So let's stop fucking around with semantics and technicalities.

Can't agree with this at all.

Those may have been the motivations but that needs to be clearly established.

In simple terms the chants may have been either racism or banter. Motive is important.

Unless and until proper enquiries are made and evidence established then no final judgment can reasonably be reached.

At the moment much of this reads like a tabloid: if the act you are accused of is heinous enough then there is no need for a trial, just go straight to the verdict and sentence.

This is not about semantics it's about due process.

And it's not theoretical either as @himbehindyou's posts attest.

 

[Tyler Durden]

How?

Maybe you didn't hear it but how can you categorically say it didn't happen? Others seem convinced they did hear it. I thought I heard it but could be wrong. I don't understand how anyone can categorically say it didn't happen.

For what it's worth, I generally agree with the rest of your post.

Sorry, I should've added "from my perspective". My season ticket is halfway up gangway E and the chanting came from the back of E or F. Now if people closer to it say there were "Paki" references then I'll happily concede.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Whilst not wanting to go down the media witch-hunt route, which has been covered on this site before, but I do wonder why well known racist songs sung by our City rivals have never made it into the media.

 

[Bladepicker]

Sounds to me like you wanted to hear the word 'Pakis' so you could spout your politically driven views.
.

Why bring politics into it.

People do not like to hear racist chanting, or at the very least chanting which can easily be interpreted as racist.

That to me seems a perfectly rational and reasonable standpoint to take, and one I would think would be taken by most people on the political compass.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You can disagree with me and others all you want. My abiding memory of the match is a great win and great support.

Same here. Just a shame about the sideshow caused by the moronic few

 

[Tyler Durden]

Can't agree with this at all.

Those may have been the motivations but that needs to be clearly established.

In simple terms the chants may have been either racism or banter. Motive is important.

'Banter' can justify all sorts of wrongdoing and frequently seems to these days. I don't see how it needs to be analyzed. The song wasn't exactly cryptic.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Wonder what the idiots will sing about Peterborough?

Im not scared to admit it, if they think of anything I wont be ashamed, Id be impressed!

 

[HillmortonBlade]

Sorry, I should've added "from my perspective". My season ticket is halfway up gangway E and the chanting came from the back of E or F. Now if people closer to it say there were "Paki" references then I'll happily concede.

We can't sit that far away, I am on TT on gangway E, and I can say sincerely, that I did not hear any "paki" references, at all. If I had, I would say, because that's out of order.

 

[Tyler Durden]

We can't sit that far away, I am on TT on gangway E, and I can say sincerely, that I did not hear any "paki" references, at all. If I had, I would say, because that's out of order.

I'm on LL so yeah it's only a few rows difference, and you were closer.

 

[Bladesway]

Wonder what the idiots will sing about Peterborough?

Im not scared to admit it, if they think of anything I wont be ashamed, Id be impressed!

Town full of nothing?

 

[Darthblade]

I'm sorry, but you're making yourself look a complete imbecile on this post. You've effectively just described racism then questioned whether it's racist. Thinking someone is inferior because of their race is the definition of racism.

Well ...... I'm trying to have a "grown up" debate about an issue that is certainly much more complex than you and some other posters would accept. I'm encouraging exploring the scenario posed by WHF, the purpose of which is to examine what ACTUALLY constitutes racial discrimination.

I'm also not lowering myself to name calling just because I don't happen to agree with your point of view, however, I can confirm that I'm not offended at all that you have "labelled" me as an imbecile.

My experience tells me that persons of a left wing persuasion are quite often very free with "labels" for any individual(s) who do not agree with their way of thinking and / or interpreting situations. I'm not scared of you "labelling" me nor am I intimidated by this, so again you haven't offended me.

This is why I believe that this is a political issue, not a football issue, because the more left wing your views, the more likely you are to immediately interpret any given action as one of the "ist" issues.

It is very interesting that one of the posters on this thread demonstrated absolutely nailed on "ageism" in response to one post ........ my question to you would therefore be ....

Are ageism / sexism / etc less serious and more "tolerable" than "racism" in your eyes ?

UTB & FTP

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

'Banter' can justify all sorts of wrongdoing and frequently seems to these days. I don't see how it needs to be analyzed. The song wasn't exactly cryptic.

It doesn't need to be analysed bc we know what it meant?

I think this is wrong, and dangerous.

The people involved deserve due process, as we all do. It's a principle of justice.

If it is established they are hardcore racists then suitable sanctions should be put in place. But not until then.

Plenty of posters in numerous threads have various points of view.

Motive needs to be established.

Banter is sometimes unjustified as an explanation does not mean banter is always unjustified as an explanation.