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snootyfenooty said:
Another imbecile. Show me where the EPL is mentioned in any of this.

Of course you and cocopops are convinced the club would never pull a stunt like this so it must be someone else behind it even if you've got zero evidence.
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Alright grumpy drawers, someone's not had their bottle this afternoon...

The Premier League is a client of Back Four Ltd

We may have asked the PL to sort it, but the evidence I have (it had been up without incident for two years and was down within a fortnight of us being promoted) suggests it was the Premier League's people.

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snootyfenooty said:
If you've got no idea then why is it me putting the boot into club
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Everyone else leapt to the assumption it was the PL.

You didn't.

Maybe you have a razor sharp enquiring mind?

Or maybe you just take any opportunity to drag the club into it?

snootyfenooty said:
What an imbecilic thing to say
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Natch!

It's what I do.

snootyfenooty said:
Of course you and cocopops are convinced the club would never pull a stunt like this so it must be someone else behind it even if you've got zero evidence
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I said 'I didn't know' which is not the same as saying it's not the club. Don't let facts interrupt your rant though.


ISC - Imbecilic since 2019
 
So the club crest is being protected? Does that mean that bars on London Rd can't have a Blades symbol on the bar? What about tattooists who offer Blades tatttoos?

Or is there a fair use exception?
 
I can see the point where individuals are taking someone else's work i.e. photographs and artwork, popping a Photoshop filter over the top and passing it off as their own work.

But last time around, we were contacted by agents acting on behalf of the Premier League reprimanding us for displaying the club's badge. Might be one to watch out for if you are selling original works.

Videos of goals were also routinely taken down regularly and without notice. I'd expect streamers to get their collars felt (particularly when the club know exactly who they are).

Different ball-game this Premier League lark.
 
Linz said:
I can see the point where individuals are taking someone else's work i.e. photographs and artwork, popping a Photoshop filter over the top and passing it off as their own work.

But last time around, we were contacted by agents acting on behalf of the Premier League reprimanding us for displaying the club's badge. Might be one to watch out for if you are selling original works.

Videos of goals were also routinely taken down regularly and without notice. I'd expect streamers to get their collars felt (particularly when the club know exactly who they are).

Different ball-game this Premier League lark.
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I had another one taken down that I'd forgotten about. It said Sheffield United in the Stranger Things typeface. No logos, no pictures of our kit, players or anything. And it was a licenced typeface.

So they'll go after you for just having the name of the team on something you may potentially at some point make some money from.
 
Linz said:
I can see the point where individuals are taking someone else's work i.e. photographs and artwork, popping a Photoshop filter over the top and passing it off as their own work.

But last time around, we were contacted by agents acting on behalf of the Premier League reprimanding us for displaying the club's badge. Might be one to watch out for if you are selling original works.

Videos of goals were also routinely taken down regularly and without notice. I'd expect streamers to get their collars felt (particularly when the club know exactly who they are).

Different ball-game this Premier League lark.
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It was funny when they were interviewed by Calendar in Portugal, named their group but only mentioned streaming their way to the games 😄
 
Linz said:
... the EPL lawyers are warming up.

Now that they can't whinge about people displaying fixtures, they've got more time on their hands.

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Amazed SUISA are still going. Still got my membership card somewhere...
 
Its an assumption snootyfenooty that the club are protecting their brand now that we're in the Premier League. Why do i believe that the Premier League themselves are behind it? Purely because its not happened before with United and I know that this is right up the street of the Premier League.

Sure, you could be right that it could be entirely Sheffield United, doing this off their own back, but having spoken to someone at the club a month or so ago, he also mentioned that there was so much that United had to comply with commercially that everyone at the club was so busy... So why do this now? Its surely not a priority to go after an Independent Supporters group or a fan putting up some content that they've made themselves...
 
Nothing new- I was told by a badge seller in Mablethorpe a few years back that the Prem had sent him a stern letter saying not to sell anything with a Prem club's logo on it.

Fucking totalitarian.
 
Will the Premier League be going around painting over those Blades badge bedroom wall murals too?

I bet they have a trademark wallpapering team primed and ready to go 🤔
 
SwissBlade said:
Its an assumption snootyfenooty that the club are protecting their brand now that we're in the Premier League. Why do i believe that the Premier League themselves are behind it? Purely because its not happened before with United and I know that this is right up the street of the Premier League.

Sure, you could be right that it could be entirely Sheffield United, doing this off their own back, but having spoken to someone at the club a month or so ago, he also mentioned that there was so much that United had to comply with commercially that everyone at the club was so busy... So why do this now? Its surely not a priority to go after an Independent Supporters group or a fan putting up some content that they've made themselves...
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It's a waste of their time anyway in my case, firstly, if they'd asked I would have taken it down anyway, I make fuck all from it. It's really not even worth my time in terms of what I've earnt.

I just do stuff that'd I'd like so I can buy them. Most of my sales on Redbubble are to me or my friends, and I give them my profit back.

I wonder if they're more worried about someone buying unofficial or counterfeit stuff, it being crap or somehow it causes an injury, and coming to the Prem complaining.
 
Don’t underestimate their lack of common sense. We live in a village in North Notts called Everton. Guess which football club’s lawyers tried to stop the local farm shop calling themselves...Everton Farm Shop (their branding and logo were nothing like the football one)? The Farm Shop eventually won but had to go to the time and expense of defending themselves.
 

SwissBlade said:
Its an assumption snootyfenooty that the club are protecting their brand now that we're in the Premier League. Why do i believe that the Premier League themselves are behind it? Purely because its not happened before with United and I know that this is right up the street of the Premier League.

Sure, you could be right that it could be entirely Sheffield United, doing this off their own back, but having spoken to someone at the club a month or so ago, he also mentioned that there was so much that United had to comply with commercially that everyone at the club was so busy... So why do this now? Its surely not a priority to go after an Independent Supporters group or a fan putting up some content that they've made themselves...
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Swiss, I've no problem discussing the pros and cons with you as its unlikely I'll be met with the same infantile rantings evidenced above from the others in their replies. The reason I've implicated the club in this is because that is who was alluded to in the OP. There was no mention of the EPL. It would be easy for the club to cite the EPL in their reasoning but they didn't. The same posters will be blaming the EPL next for "forcing" the club to jack their tickets up to 45 quid a ticket next. The giveaway for me in this is that the chances of the EPL having any prior knowledge of merchandisers such as those on Cherry Street and the underpass are next to zero. This is the club's doing, they're dealing with sums of money and a set of rules which have caught them by surprise and they've had to up their corporate game correspondingly.
 
bromtom said:
It's a waste of their time anyway in my case, firstly, if they'd asked I would have taken it down anyway, I make fuck all from it.

I just do stuff that'd I'd like so I can buy them. Most of my sales on Redbubble are to me or my friends, and I give them my profit back.

I wonder if they're more worried about someone buying unofficial or counterfeit stuff, it being crap or somehow it causes an injury, and coming to the Prem complaining.
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Looking at the website of Back Four Ltd and the owner, they are all about protecting the brand... so not losing any money at all... even if its a few quid.

I'd be surprised if the money saved by going around shutting these sites and pages down is even covered by the fees paid to this company, in Sheffield United's case at least.

Sheffield United might not actually need a contract with Back Four Ltd if the ongoing contract that the Premier League has covers all 20 clubs, again speculating.
 
Wapping Blade said:
Don’t underestimate their lack of common sense. We live in a village in North Notts called Everton. Guess which football club’s lawyers tried to stop the local farm shop calling themselves...Everton Farm Shop (their branding and logo were nothing like the football one)? The Farm Shop eventually won but had to go to the time and expense of defending themselves.
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That’s ridiculous. There’s enough clarity in the law for that not to happen, there are legal tests for this, one being how close your business is to the one you’re accused of copying so if you had a computer shop called Bush Apple you’d probably get done but if it was a greengrocer, you wouldn’t.

I hope Everton were directed to pay all court and legal costs.
 
SwissBlade said:
Looking at the website of Back Four Ltd and the owner, they are all about protecting the brand... so not losing any money at all... even if its a few quid.

I'd be surprised if the money saved by going around shutting these sites and pages down is even covered by the fees paid to this company, in Sheffield United's case at least.

Sheffield United might not actually need a contract with Back Four Ltd if the ongoing contract that the Premier League has covers all 20 clubs, again speculating.
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How much does it cost though? You just need some millennial on two quid above minimum wage to go on google and find the merchandisers and send a list to the relevant club with a pro-forma cease and desist letter.
 
SwissBlade said:
Looking at the website of Back Four Ltd and the owner, they are all about protecting the brand... so not losing any money at all... even if its a few quid.

I'd be surprised if the money saved by going around shutting these sites and pages down is even covered by the fees paid to this company, in Sheffield United's case at least.

Sheffield United might not actually need a contract with Back Four Ltd if the ongoing contract that the Premier League has covers all 20 clubs, again speculating.
Click to expand...

I've just looked at the dates.

The two items were taken down on the 30th of April, we were confirmed Premier League on the 28th.

If that doesn't scream "now under Premier League jurisdiction" I don't know what does.
 
snootyfenooty said:
Swiss, I've no problem discussing the pros and cons with you as its unlikely I'll be met with the same infantile rantings evidenced above from the others in their replies. The reason I've implicated the club in this is because that is who was alluded to in the OP. There was no mention of the EPL. It would be easy for the club to cite the EPL in their reasoning but they didn't. The same posters will be blaming the EPL next for "forcing" the club to jack their tickets up to 45 quid a ticket next. The giveaway for me in this is that the chances of the EPL having any prior knowledge of merchandisers such as those on Cherry Street and the underpass are next to zero. This is the club's doing, they're dealing with sums of money and a set of rules which have caught them by surprise and they've had to up their corporate game correspondingly.
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Its interesting and normally i don't like to speculate (i've not done much speculating on transfers), but i know that the Premier League have form for this sort of thing, so my initial response was targeting the Premier League and not Sheffield United, based on the timing and circumstances.

I see the way that the Premier League operates as something like a major company taking over a small player. They quickly impose their rules on the small player, I worked at Capita many years ago and this was exactly the way they operated.

Sheffield United, will most certainly have been handed a big file from the Premier League which will contain all the rules and requirements. You want £100 Million for being in our league? Right, get a media centre built, heres the spec. You need to make space for Press in your main stand, kick some season ticket holders out of their seats. Your social media presence isn't up to scratch, deal with it. As a side, i'll be interested to know how we've handled these major changes and projects from a resourcing perspective.
 
SwissBlade said:
As you've proven, its not Sheffield United that are the problem, its the PL Lawyers and i guess United now have to act (as a 'Shareholder' (or whatever the terminology is) in the Premier League) on behalf of the Premier League Brand.

I understand the need to protect the brand of the Top 6 in the Prem, you can find knock off shirts all over the world. But we're Sheffield United, nobody will be knocking up fake Blades shirts anytime soon in Thailand.

Its things like this though that can distance the club and its fanbase.

The last 3 years I've never felt more connected to the club. The way the manager, Owners, players and fans interact is something which i thought we'd lost completely.

Lets hope that our foray into this cesspit of a league doesn't damage those connections. I'd rather be league 2 than Premier League if it means we have a better connection with the club...
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They are knocking off copies of shirts from China nine quid a shot my mate showed me the site
 
snootyfenooty said:
Swiss, I've no problem discussing the pros and cons with you as its unlikely I'll be met with the same infantile rantings evidenced above from the others in their replies. The reason I've implicated the club in this is because that is who was alluded to in the OP. There was no mention of the EPL. It would be easy for the club to cite the EPL in their reasoning but they didn't. The same posters will be blaming the EPL next for "forcing" the club to jack their tickets up to 45 quid a ticket next. The giveaway for me in this is that the chances of the EPL having any prior knowledge of merchandisers such as those on Cherry Street and the underpass are next to zero. This is the club's doing, they're dealing with sums of money and a set of rules which have caught them by surprise and they've had to up their corporate game correspondingly.
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Infantile rantings? You called me an imbecile and then a cocopop.

For no reason that I could see seeing as I only responded with some evidence that it was in fact the Premier League's copyright representatives.
 
BushBlade said:
How much does it cost though? You just need some millennial on two quid above minimum wage to go on google and find the merchandisers and send a list to the relevant club with a pro-forma cease and desist letter.
Click to expand...

Looking at the accounts that i can find (they have a small company exemption on accounts with companies house) its hard to see what their income is, but looking at the clients that they've had and the owner used to be the Brand Protection Manager at Nike & Converse and Deputy Brand Protection Manager at Man U, it must make a bit of money.

So not just minimum wage... I reckon the charge out rates are pretty decent for the work they do!
 
SwissBlade said:
Looking at the accounts that i can find (they have a small company exemption on accounts with companies house) its hard to see what their income is, but looking at the clients that they've had and the owner used to be the Brand Protection Manager at Nike & Converse and Deputy Brand Protection Manager at Man U, it must make a bit of money.

So not just minimum wage... I reckon the charge out rates are pretty decent for the work they do!
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Yes, the charge out rate will be very high. Wages paid to the person doing the donkey work probably won’t be. That’s how consultancy works.
 
Id be very surprised if this decision was anything to do with SUFC.

We tried to do some mobile graphics about 15 years ago for the Blades and everyone down at the lane loved them and said if it was up to them we could do use the logo and such no problem but they then said it wasnt up to them in any way and they had to seek permission to use their own logo on anything digital.

At the time it was FLI who owned all the digital image rights to all the clubs except about 6 and they had to give permission for anyone to use it not the clubs themselves.

For us to use the logo they wanted £100K (Twats!) and about 40% of profits

Ive done a fair amount of work that comes close to infringing copyrights before but Im in no way a solicitor (Twat). My take on it would be you can use whatever you want except the club crest, they cant copyright the words Sheffield and United for instance.

I wouldnt think twice about a hand drawn logo though, I would argue its artists interpretation of something that is in the public domain (you could also argue that by hand drawing it you have altered at least 30% of the copyright material and so it is then original).

The painted Umbro logo mentioned earlier would be absolutely fine.

The solicitors however will just send out a letter to anyone they can and try to scare them into removing it and in 99% of cases it will work as nobody wants to take the risk.
 
bromtom said:
Infantile rantings? You called me an imbecile and then a cocopop.

For no reason that I could see seeing as I only responded with some evidence that it was in fact the Premier League's copyright representatives.
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There's no evidence at all. Read the OP. Cocopop is your sidekick poster by the way, thats my friendly term for him.
 

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