A few questions which make no sense...

[FriethBlade]

I don't think we're 'poor' in Championship terms but the squad is unbalanced and the money we do have could have been used better.

We now have 5 centre midfielders (7 if you throw in Choudhury and Shackleton) but none of them who are naturally attacking midfielders. Riedewald, Philips and Choudhury are three very well paid players who all fill the same role and all came in this summer. The same could be said for Peck, Arblaster and Rothwell, you ideally don't want more than one on the pitch at the same time in the two man midfield Wilder seems to favour. That's 4 highly paid centre midfielders going to be sat on the bench or not in the squad every week.

Four right backs for one position. Is Doherty not fit? If so why is he on the bench. In the two games since Seriki got injured we've put a young centre half there who clearly isn't a right back and then signed a player and stuck him in. At Cardiff we reshuffled to move Baptiste away from right back and still didn't bring Doherty on.

Three left backs is also one too many. He keeps putting McCallum in at centre half but probably won't now Kitching it here. We do have 5 centre backs (though it's easy to forget we still have Zatterstrom) which is about right.

I think we could have easily not signed Choudhury considering we have three other players who can play right back and six other centre midfielders and used that money on a decent loan who could play on the left or number 10 (ideally both). We've got two injured attacking players at the moment (Chong and One) and are already resorting to bringing Shackleton on when BBD cramped up.

If he's planning to play a flat 3-5-2 then we probably have a more balanced squad but that totally negates Donovan and even then we don't have any centre midfielders who can drive forward with the ball and prevent our strikers being totally isolated up front.

I think most people (well some people!) knew we had to cut our cloth due to SCR and us being the only team to lose our parachute payments this summer, but that doesn't mean we should be happy that the recruitment we have managed as left us with a heavily unbalanced squad and quite a few of our top earners being so similar they won't all be playing most weeks.

Chezzy agreed, we can blame the board for the finances but the recruitment has been lopsided. Since January we have brought in Rothwell, Jairo and Phillips to add to Blaster and Peck. 5 very well paid players for 2 spots. And if you included Choudhury thats 6 and for those who say hes been brought in to play RB firstly why did we sign Doherty and secondly if needing another why not sign a proper right back? We saw what happens when you play a midfielder at right back v a good left winger last night !

 

[Ron_Justice]

Well it would have been interesting on the plans they would have had to sell to potential investors to make it attractive to them to do the investing.
What they actually did in response to not going up maybe showed that those potential investors had a lucky escape

Quite, but hypotheticals don't really matter. What matters is where we are, why we're here and what we're going to do about it.

 

[AWetFlannel]

An expectation that isn't allowed to happen anymore. £11M a year is all they're allowed to put in. How would that have covered to losses from last year's income? We had to sell. If we're selling players for £7M each. And then spending that on recruiting, we're still in the red.

Leaving loans and frees. Frees are likely to be older, riskier, and still need paying and the Elite (the only ones worth bringing in) loan market is more expensive and risk adverse than ever.

So you are of the opinion that selling Brooks, Hamer and O'Hare and replacing them with two loans is just the best we could do? Next summer when the loans end we'll have zero left wingers, one right winger and zero number 10s contracted at the club. It's hardly a sustainable strategy.

Without knowing the full financial situation at other Championship clubs, I look at how Birmingham, Wrexham, Norwich, Stoke, West Brom, Swansea, Millwall, Middlesbrough and Bristol City have operated and don't see any of them packing in the way we have.

 

[Bladeslad89]

Wonder if Danny Hall or one of the BBC radio gang have the guts to say to Wilder, you said Chris that a bid was on the table for Souttar, so what happened for it to turn into loans and free transfers. It's a glaringly obvious question to ask. Not sure we'd get the truth though.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Also, what would have happened if the O'Hare bid never came in? Without his wages off the books and a £7mill transfer fee, would we have breached the rules? If so, relying on a last minute bid to get anywhere close to following the rules is worrying.

 

[SwissBlade]

There were always going to be sales this summer because of the loss of parachute payments and the new SCR regulations. I assumed we’d lose Hamer plus at least one of our young prospects. Not much to be done about that and in some ways we were lucky that we had valuable assets to sell.

What doesn’t make sense is the lack of a plan to replace these players and keep the squad balanced. We should still have had the resources to put together a competitive group and I bet our wage bill is still relatively high for the division. But somehow we’ve ended up with a million centre halves, right backs, and defensive midfielders and basically no attacking midfielders or wingers.

It seems like Wilder has been misled about what would be made available to him. Im not sure he’s recruited all that wisely himself but you have to feel he’s been put in a more or less impossible situation.

Brooks and Hamer were always going, I presumed Peck would go and maybe Burrows. O’Hare going so late makes him hard to replace.

Donovan and BBD replaced Brooks and Hamer, but I think Donovan is more of a direct replacement for O’Hare when you look at his overall play.

Last night we looked more balanced but without anyone taking control of the defence or midfield for long periods. Phillips coming in did make us more robust in the middle. The worry is at the back, but I am hoping that Kitching will at least strengthen the LCB position.

Losing Seriki is a big loss, Hamza needs to step up quickly and get match fit.

The concern is that we’ve not played anyone decent yet but we looked very vulnerable last night at the back

 

[Chezzy Blades]

So you are of the opinion that selling Brooks, Hamer and O'Hare and replacing them with two loans is just the best we could do? Next summer when the loans end we'll have zero left wingers, one right winger and zero number 10s contracted at the club. It's hardly a sustainable strategy.

Without knowing the full financial situation at other Championship clubs, I look at how Birmingham, Wrexham, Norwich, Stoke, West Brom, Swansea, Millwall, Middlesbrough and Bristol City have operated and don't see any of them packing in the way we have.

I think the problem specifically in our case is the loss of parachute payments. All the other teams didn't have them anyway so moving to SCR has given them a bit more wiggle room to spend cash against the old model. We have a big hole to fill with parachute payments so have had to go the other way.

I'd have rather we made permanent signings to replace Brooks and Hamer, but perhaps Wilder thinks we need to stay up this season with loans and then try and balance the squad with permanent signings next season who are not in their prime but with a higher ceiling when we're more comfortably under SCR?

I don't know I'm just guessing. But either way it doesn't excuse not replacing O'Hare and the lopsided squad.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Brooks and Hamer were always going, I presumed Peck would go and maybe Burrows. O’Hare going so late makes him hard to replace.

Donovan and BBD replaced Brooks and Hamer, but I think Donovan is more of a direct replacement for O’Hare when you look at his overall play.

Last night we looked more balanced but without anyone taking control of the defence or midfield for long periods. Phillips coming in did make us more robust in the middle. The worry is at the back, but I am hoping that Kitching will at least strengthen the LCB position.

Losing Seriki is a big loss, Hamza needs to step up quickly and get match fit.

The concern is that we’ve not played anyone decent yet but we looked very vulnerable last night at the back

Next summer it now has to be Peck, Tanganga, Seriki, One and Cooper as the most saleable assets we have.

It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy that we get worse and become relegation fodder.

Unless Jamie Hoyland and Carl Shieber have any more ex players to get back in?!

 

[Ron_Justice]

So you are of the opinion that selling Brooks, Hamer and O'Hare and replacing them with two loans is just the best we could do? Next summer when the loans end we'll have zero left wingers, one right winger and zero number 10s contracted at the club. It's hardly a sustainable strategy.

Without knowing the full financial situation at other Championship clubs, I look at how Birmingham, Wrexham, Norwich, Stoke, West Brom, Swansea, Millwall, Middlesbrough and Bristol City have operated and don't see any of them packing in the way we have.

I think the owners have taken the view of short, sharp pain to correct the financial direction of the club. They've acted decisively and decided to address the black hole as quickly as possible. I don't like it, I was disappointed when CW said we're done last night, I was convinced we'd announce a vibrant, dynamic, raw, loan as C'Oh replacement.

I do think we're unbalanced as a squad, I don't think we have enough creativity in the middle of the park but I also realise it's cheaper to find quality in your own final third than it is at the top of the pitch. I also acknowledge that being pragmatic, in our situation, is probably the better option - pragmatic = spend what you do have on ensuring we're here to beat.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I think the problem specifically in our case is the loss of parachute payments. All the other teams didn't have them anyway so moving to SCR has given them a bit more wiggle room to spend cash against the old model. We have a big hole to fill with parachute payments so have had to go the other way.

I'd have rather we made permanent signings to replace Brooks and Hamer, but perhaps Wilder thinks we need to stay up this season with loans and then try and balance the squad with permanent signings next season who are not in their prime but with a higher ceiling when we're more comfortably under SCR?

I don't know I'm just guessing. But either way it doesn't excuse not replacing O'Hare and the lopsided squad.

Suppose it comes down to the previous transfer windows as well. In my head, Hamer was the last PL player in the squad and so with him gone we should be operating at a similar financial level to those other clubs. In reality, we've spent significant fees on a bunch of players that have contributed nothing, and have PL wages like Grbic draining funds away in the background.

 

[Stretch]

The owners are gamblers, but not very fucking good one.

S1 - They gambled on us being promoted with Wilder at the first crack, so threw money at it.

S2(a) - They new they had another year's grace of parachute payments, so gambled again by sacking Wilder and going all in with Bord's AI adventure.

S2(b) - Ate humble pie and gambled on Wilder again by backing him with more signings, knowing it was the last of the parachute payments.

S3 - Gambled on being able to screw the prince out of his 35m, but now realise they have fucked up big time and need a firesale to give them a pot of cash in case they do need to pay him.

The Souttar bid seemed odd, but I suspect Wilder and Bettis had agreed this before the implications about the 35m came to light and had already put some sort of bid in. Leicester had already set a 10m pricetag, which I suspect we knew we couldn't meet, but had to be seen to be trying. Some bizarre decisions have been made in this window though.

 

[Snowflake]

"Frees and loans" but we only used 4 loan slots when we always maximise this to 5?

Spent 19m roughly last summer on transfer fees with a useless manager but nothing at all this summer with Wilder?

Why did we keep saying we bidded for Souttar when we wasn't paying for transfer fees? (Decent money)

If we kept Hamer/Brooks/O'Hare we'd actually have a very good chance of the top 8 so selling em and not replacing makes zero sense for wanting a successful season?

If we kept the three you refer to might we have become insolvent ?

 

[Snowflake]

The owners are gamblers, but not very fucking good one.

S1 - They gambled on us being promoted with Wilder at the first crack, so threw money at it.

S2(a) - They new they had another year's grace of parachute payments, so gambled again by sacking Wilder and going all in with Bord's AI adventure.

S2(b) - Ate humble pie and gambled on Wilder again by backing him with more signings, knowing it was the last of the parachute payments.

S3 - Gambled on being able to screw the prince out of his 35m, but now realise they have fucked up big time and need a firesale to give them a pot of cash in case they do need to pay him.

The Souttar bid seemed odd, but I suspect Wilder and Bettis had agreed this before the implications about the 35m came to light and had already put some sort of bid in. Leicester had already set a 10m pricetag, which I suspect we knew we couldn't meet, but had to be seen to be trying. Some bizarre decisions have been made in this window though.

Isn’t the “pot of cash” in United’s hands and not theirs ? It will be used to pay all the outgoings so the only realistic way they can get their hands on any money is by selling all or part of the club.

 

[Tickhill Blade]

I hate Americans. They are self centered, over confident, arrogant, religious zealots and they no fuck all about football.

Why don't you get off the fence and tell us what you really think?

 

[Ned the Donkey]

You can just about make a case for the owners being realistic about our situation but only if you ignore the fact that they are trying to screw the prince out of £30m or whatever it is.

Doesn't that speak volumes about who they really are, and how they really operate?

 

[Stretch]

Isn’t the “pot of cash” in United’s hands and not theirs ? It will be used to pay all the outgoings so the only realistic way they can get their hands on any money is by selling all or part of the club.

I would have thought they could spend it on what they want, provided they meet their obligations to fund the club. But I might be wrong.

 

[itsinyerblood]

We've rapidly descended to levels that are 'pigesque' in embarrassing terms.
As with any club you cannot avoid tracing the sorry state of affairs back to the Boardroom.
How complicit anyone else has been - Bettis/Wilder - remains to be established, but
as the owners of this club they've managed in a short period of time to gut the club thoroughly.
No coherent communication with the supporters, selling the most creative elements of our
playing staff, and to cap it all, no intention of allowing the players we've lost to be replaced with
similarly gifted talent.

The Board has gambled with this club's present and future and made a complete bollocks of everything!

 

[dc_blade]

Selling and reducing the wage bill was inevitable.

Having an unbalanced squad with a reduced attacking threat in terms of numbers, not quality, is unforgiveable and unprofessional.

Whoever is to blame.

A much more concise way of saying what took me about three times as many words.

 

[KMC-1889]

Pinched from elsewhere but it summarises the position nicely. Numbers are based on last set of accounts.

Income - £30m
Transfers in - £6.5m

Total Income - £36.5m

Wages - £32m
Running costs - £15m
Interest - £7m
Transfers out - £10.5m

Total Outgoings - £64.5m

Deficit £28m

We’ve potentially saved somewhere around £5-7m on wages out of the door and have brought in £20m-ish in fees.

Chances are even with the players we’ve lost there’s a chance there is still a shortfall to fill.

 

[KMC-1889]

Selling and reducing the wage bill was inevitable.

Having an unbalanced squad with a reduced attacking threat in terms of numbers, not quality, is unforgiveable and unprofessional.

Whoever is to blame.

Annoyed I can only like this once.

 

[Bladesman]

Things are that bad we couldn't even manage to sign the Barnsley lad Cleary

True but no one else did either and it sounds like Barnsley put a high price on him that no clubs in the Championship were prepared to pay. That's despite Reyes putting in a transfer request, so its going to be an interesting time at Barnsley with fans knowing he wanted out.

 

[dc_blade]

A million centre halves? We had three and just brought a fourth in on deadline day, one of them being an unproven youngster. That's the bare minimum.

Zatterstrom makes 5 I think, and McCallum has also played there making 6. But I take your point. It's not as overstocked as some other positions.

 

[The Fox]

It'll be Intresting to see how SCR impacts on some clubs as it has to be reported and assessed every 3 months rather than season to season.

My guess is that the club has given itself a bit of headroom to allow for any recruitment in January if theres either a chance to push on , or a need to beat the drop.

If thats the case it probably makes sense.

 

[Niallllll]

"Frees and loans" but we only used 4 loan slots when we always maximise this to 5?

Spent 19m roughly last summer on transfer fees with a useless manager but nothing at all this summer with Wilder?

Why did we keep saying we bidded for Souttar when we wasn't paying for transfer fees? (Decent money)

If we kept Hamer/Brooks/O'Hare we'd actually have a very good chance of the top 8 so selling em and not replacing makes zero sense for wanting a successful season?

Why would you ever want to see wilder spend money again? Where has he spent well before and has not ended up with a massive loss at the end of it?

 

[luffenhamblade]

Pinched from elsewhere but it summarises the position nicely. Numbers are based on last set of accounts.

Income - £30m
Transfers in - £6.5m

Total Income - £36.5m

Wages - £32m
Running costs - £15m
Interest - £7m
Transfers out - £10.5m

Total Outgoings - £64.5m

Deficit £28m

We’ve potentially saved somewhere around £5-7m on wages out of the door and have brought in £20m-ish in fees.

Chances are even with the players we’ve lost there’s a chance there is still a shortfall to fill.

Which brings us to what on earth happens next summer and how do we put a team out next season.

 

[KMC-1889]

Which brings us to what on earth happens next summer and how do we put a team out next season.

I guess we have to hope we’ve trimmed £15m off the wage budget or have another couple of players to sell for the equivalent value.

If we had anyone with any sense we’d be giving Seriki a 5 year contract on whatever he wants, even if it just serves the purpose of increasing his resale value.

 

[Rodley]

30m black hole cannot be funded by the owners,a maximum of 11m a year .stark financial reality players had to go and squad trimmed back

Long term any owner worth his salt (and minted) ought to be spending that cash bumping the Academy up to category 1. Otherwise competing with parachute payment clubs will be nigh on impossible in terms of talent and progressing players to sell.

 

[Champagneblade]

Chezzy agreed, we can blame the board for the finances but the recruitment has been lopsided. Since January we have brought in Rothwell, Jairo and Phillips to add to Blaster and Peck. 5 very well paid players for 2 spots. And if you included Choudhury thats 6 and for those who say hes been brought in to play RB firstly why did we sign Doherty and secondly if needing another why not sign a proper right back? We saw what happens when you play a midfielder at right back v a good left winger last night !

That why it’s logical to move to 4-3-3; you then have 2 for each spot and allow yourself to be more defensive or more attacking. DM - Phillips, Choudhury, Riedewald and more forward thinking CM - Peck, Arblaster, Rothwell.

Shackleton was ok when he came on. I’ve been more than happy to call out his poor availability bit he was ok.

Even with injuries we have - Doherty/Shackleton, Tanganaga/Baptiste, McGuinness/Kitching, McCallum/RND

Up front in that formation you have RW - Donovan/Chong, LW - BBD/Oné and CF - Bamford, Cannon, Campbell.

If you go with this system you don’t look short.

 

[SuperSonicBlade89]

I hate Americans. They are self centered, over confident, arrogant, religious zealots and they no fuck all about football.