Statistics 9 times Berge was ignored

[Antonb]

Yes, someone saw it, as i saw it! Sander got himself into some great postions, only not to be picked up. Dont know why he isnt receiving the ball , maybe he needs to shout up! And be counted. I got some hammer on this very subject yesterday! Saying i was being daft!

 

[JayGreen17]

I think Sander Berge has done ok so far, not poor, but not great either. I think most appreciate that it will take time to adapt to

• a new country
• a new league
• new teammates
• new playing style
• new role

And it's going to take time for said teammates to adapt to him as well. Lundstram, they know all about. How he moves, what he's good at. When he wants the ball. What he does with it. The formation change last summer opened up an ideal spot for him and he's done very well. The teammates are still not sure how to integrate him in our playing style. The neat combination play down each side requires great relationship and understanding between players, and it's not there yet when Berge plays.

A few fans are questioning him already. A £20m+ international with Champions League experience, shouldn't we expect more? I'm sure we'll get more, but it may take a bit longer than we and Wilder hoped.

One thing I really like about Berge is his runs on the ball. With a bit of space he can really drive at the opposition and glide past opponents. People may not be aware that he is really fast, and he's got the skill to beat a man. I'd like his teammates to look for such opportunities. If he's unmarked and in some space, give him the ball and see what he can do with it.


Let's have some patience - with him, but also with his teammates who are still not sure whereabouts he is and when to look for him. Some examples, all from the first 25 minutes vs Brighton:



* Sharp shooting, rather than squaring it to Berge in the box:
View attachment 72291


* Sharp nodding the ball back to McBurnie, not to Berge who's got acres of space:
View attachment 72292


* McBurnie passing back to Fleck/Norwood, rather than Berge, again with space in front of him:
View attachment 72293


* Norwood going to the left, rather than to Berge on the right:
View attachment 72294


* O'Connell passing backwards, rather than aiming for the unmarked Berge (who made a gesture that he wanted the ball):
View attachment 72295


* Fleck who turned into his man (though luckily got past him), rather than giving it to Berge:
View attachment 72296


* Egan passing back to Hendo, rather than finding the unmarked Berge with their midfield awol:
View attachment 72297



* Sharp chipping it to their centre backs (think he aimed for McBurnie) rahter than passing low to Berge:
View attachment 72298


* Basham passing out to Baldock, rather than threading it through to Berge:
View attachment 72299


I'm not saying all of these were easy passes to make, maybe not all were right either. But I think they show that Berge did take up some good positions, did make some good runs and he could have been used more.

You’ve got a real point here and I hope the coaching staff see this point, I also noticed this loads in the pournmouth game, I just put it down to new player syndrome.

 

[1987]

I don't think all of those passes are 1) Realistic 2) How we play. The example of the JOC pass is a good one. I don't think Wilder wants him playing that pass.

If Berge is good enough he'll bend the team to his will

Our system doesnt allow for simple passes to players in space?

If all we do is push the wings, we are going to start struggling for space. Its already getting noticably tighter against teams.

 

[SuperBobbyHatton]

Agree, he looks like he belongs on a footie pitch.

Yep, hes one of those players that seems to not move but at the same time hes always available for a pass and in space. I know its early doors but he reminds me of Paul McGrath with his awareness. McGrath seemed almost psychic.

 

[metalblade]

This can't be right Bergen Blade CW said the lads played outstanding ( not sure where myself ) .
Sander Berge does take up some great positions if you follow him during the game and looks slow and so laid back but the reality is he covers a lot of ground a lot faster than it looks quality players never look rushed. Against Bournemouth the same happened I think it was Fleck who shot on the angle when a square pass to Berge would have been a tap in. His play at the moment reminds me of the first few games this season where the whole team looked slower than the teams we were playing that is just down to speed of thought. Things happen fast in the Premier league it was probably a bit more of a relaxed style in Belgium. Still as we have seen with Robinson and McBurnie our fans don't half get on the players backs if they have a price tag over £500k and aren't banging goals in left right and centre from day one.

 

[PokerBlade]

Point 1. Billy ain't ever going to pass when he has a shot at goal. Point 2 - Maybe Sander should start opening his gob and be more demanding.

Was about to say similar to that second point. It comes down to confidence a lot of the time but Fleck, Norwood, and Lundstrum, are going to be screaming for the ball in those spaces. And they might well give a rollocking to a player who ignores them. To be fair though, it's hard to come in as the new lad in a well established side and start issuing commands to people. Equally, as Bergen said, in time players will be used to the runs he makes and positions he gets in to.

 

[Silent Blade]

Sander Berge does take up some great positions if you follow him during the game and looks slow and so laid back but the reality is he covers a lot of ground a lot faster than it looks quality players never look rushed.

Six Million Dollar Man looked slow on TV but he is really fast!

 

[Inter_blade83]

It might be a case of being careful and not playing the hollywood pass, or one across opponents that could be cut out. The way we play, with the overload, could make us more susceptible to a break away, so not playing those passes might be a case of safety first.

 

[SwissBlade]

I think Sander Berge has done ok so far, not poor, but not great either. I think most appreciate that it will take time to adapt to

• a new country
• a new league
• new teammates
• new playing style
• new role

And it's going to take time for said teammates to adapt to him as well. Lundstram, they know all about. How he moves, what he's good at. When he wants the ball. What he does with it. The formation change last summer opened up an ideal spot for him and he's done very well. The teammates are still not sure how to integrate him in our playing style. The neat combination play down each side requires great relationship and understanding between players, and it's not there yet when Berge plays.

A few fans are questioning him already. A £20m+ international with Champions League experience, shouldn't we expect more? I'm sure we'll get more, but it may take a bit longer than we and Wilder hoped.

One thing I really like about Berge is his runs on the ball. With a bit of space he can really drive at the opposition and glide past opponents. People may not be aware that he is really fast, and he's got the skill to beat a man. I'd like his teammates to look for such opportunities. If he's unmarked and in some space, give him the ball and see what he can do with it.


Let's have some patience - with him, but also with his teammates who are still not sure whereabouts he is and when to look for him. Some examples, all from the first 25 minutes vs Brighton:



* Sharp shooting, rather than squaring it to Berge in the box:
View attachment 72291


* Sharp nodding the ball back to McBurnie, not to Berge who's got acres of space:
View attachment 72292


* McBurnie passing back to Fleck/Norwood, rather than Berge, again with space in front of him:
View attachment 72293


* Norwood going to the left, rather than to Berge on the right:
View attachment 72294


* O'Connell passing backwards, rather than aiming for the unmarked Berge (who made a gesture that he wanted the ball):
View attachment 72295


* Fleck who turned into his man (though luckily got past him), rather than giving it to Berge:
View attachment 72296


* Egan passing back to Hendo, rather than finding the unmarked Berge with their midfield awol:
View attachment 72297



* Sharp chipping it to their centre backs (think he aimed for McBurnie) rahter than passing low to Berge:
View attachment 72298


* Basham passing out to Baldock, rather than threading it through to Berge:
View attachment 72299


I'm not saying all of these were easy passes to make, maybe not all were right either. But I think they show that Berge did take up some good positions, did make some good runs and he could have been used more.

Great analysis as always Bergen!

I think in a few cases above, you could perhaps argue against the pass to Berge as you highlight -
Sharp Shooting instead of squaring, you always want your striker to get a shot off when he's in the area, its when a striker doesn't shoot that you sometimes have problems.
Sharp heading to McBurnie was probably the easier and shorter option
JOC not passing a long low pass to Berge, thats something we don't tend to do in that area, we don't play the risky pass.
Basham to Baldock was the right pass, because it wasn't between two players

But the Norwood, Egan and Sharp passes you highlight, particularly the Sharp Pass inside the box, perhaps should've gone to Berge as he was in better space and the pass was on. The Sharp one would've definitely gone to Lundstram if he was in that position as he's made those runs all season.

The good think you've highlighted is that Berge is getting himself into great positions and he is an option, in time they will find him.

I don't understand the criticism of Berge, he's settling in, looks to be decent on the ball. He's not up to speed with pace always, but that's coming. His heading needs work, but that will also come.

Lets not forget that we've written off Basham every season, Lundstram was never good enough, the flat midfield 3 wasn't going to work, McBurnie was crap, Mousset is now crap too... so as a fanbase we are constantly being proved wrong!

Berge coming in now is a great move. He's settling in, he'll hopefully get a full 90 in the cup and perhaps in Norwoods role. I still think Berge will be playing in Norwoods role eventually, rotating with him.


However,

 

[BobblesBlade]

We’ve signed a world class player and once the team gets to grips with that he will create and score goals.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Our system doesnt allow for simple passes to players in space?

If all we do is push the wings, we are going to start struggling for space. Its already getting noticably tighter against teams.

30 yard passes on the floor in front of 4 opposition players from your wide CB are a risk I don't think we are going to take very often

 

[SwissBlade]

We’ve signed a world class player and once the team gets to grips with that he will create and score goals.

Yeah that’s also clear from Bergen’s analysis.

Berge makes himself available in positions which are perhaps more risky than what we’re used to playing balls into or through.

Flipping it around, It’s great that he’s confident in the players around him to ask them to play a higher risk pass to him.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I don't think all of those passes are 1) Realistic 2) How we play. The example of the JOC pass is a good one. I don't think Wilder wants him playing that pass.

If Berge is good enough he'll bend the team to his will

It's a situation where we have achieved an important aim in football:

In all team sports, the secret is to overload one side of the pitch so that the opponent must tilt its own defence to cope. You overload on one side and draw them in so that they leave the other side weak.

And when we've done all that, we attack and score from the other side. That's why you have to pass the ball, but only if you're doing it with a clear intention. It's only to overload the opponent, to draw them in and then to hit them with the sucker punch.

(Guardiola)



So we have got into a situation where 7 of Brighton's players are focused on the man on the ball, and we have a man in space signalling for the ball. Maybe it would have taken an extra touch forward (and preferably a right foot) for JOC to make that pass a secure one, but we must try to identify these situations of vulnerability on the opposition's part.

On occasions we have showed that we are capable of carving through crowded areas, but we won't score enough goals if we think we can do that every time.

 

[Carlton Blade]

It's a situation where we have achieved an important aim in football:

In all team sports, the secret is to overload one side of the pitch so that the opponent must tilt its own defence to cope. You overload on one side and draw them in so that they leave the other side weak.

And when we've done all that, we attack and score from the other side. That's why you have to pass the ball, but only if you're doing it with a clear intention. It's only to overload the opponent, to draw them in and then to hit them with the sucker punch.

(Guardiola)

View attachment 72313

So we have got into a situation where 7 of Brighton's players are focused on the man on the ball, and we have a man in space signalling for the ball. Maybe it would have taken an extra touch forward (and preferably a right foot) for JOC to make that pass a secure one, but we must try to identify these situations of vulnerability on the opposition's part.

On occasions we have showed that we are capable of carving through crowded areas, but we won't score enough goals if we think we can do that every time.

I'm not arguing the point. It's the risk reward calculation. If that pass gets picked off, theirs a dangerous counter attack. And I don't think JOC has the green light to play that pass. He never plays that pass. Much more likely to aim at Baldock

 

[ormester]

Good points he has the instinct to find space like the top players do

 

[Bergen Blade]

I'm not arguing the point. It's the risk reward calculation. If that pass gets picked off, theirs a dangerous counter attack. And I don't think JOC has the green light to play that pass. He never plays that pass. Much more likely to aim at Baldock

Or backwards to Norwood, before a long punt down the left, which is what happened. There have been some spells under Wilder where I've thought our tactics have needed tweaking, especially when teams in each of the three divisions have started realising our quality and made specific alterations to their usual tactics to stop us from playing, notably stop our overloads. Every time Wilder has addressed it.

Quoting myself from another post:

Goals of late:


Brighton 1-0 a - Long kick from Henderson, Defenders nods, McBurnie runs in behind

Watford 1-1 h - Norwood pen

Man city 0-2 a

Liverpool 0-2 a

West Ham 1-0 h - Fleck picks up poor goalkeeper's pass, gives to McBurnie

Arsenal 1-1 a - Fleck scored after Robinson's cross was flicked on by an Arsenal defender.

Man City 0-1 h

Palace 1-0 a - Norwood corner, goalkeeper own goal

Bournemouth 2-1 h - Mayhem after corner, Sharp knocks it in

- Starting with our throw in routine, Stevens gets it back from Fleck, runs with it, gives it to Mousset who sets up Lundstram.

Brighton 1-1 h - Short corner half cleared, Stevens wonder shot 0

As can be seen, our passing moves haven't brought us a lot of goals recently, and I think opposition tactics have played a part. These can open up new vulnerabilities on their part though, and quicker switching of play, making use of players that do have space may be things to look at.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Point 1. Billy ain't ever going to pass when he has a shot at goal. Point 2 - Maybe Sander should start opening his gob and be more demanding.

I'm not arguing the point. It's the risk reward calculation. If that pass gets picked off, theirs a dangerous counter attack. And I don't think JOC has the green light to play that pass. He never plays that pass. Much more likely to aim at Baldock

It is all about risk and reward and Wilder talks about being brave in possession. We are now in a position to show more bravery as relegation is not on the agenda now.
If we are serious about Europe we have to show more bravery and risk the occasional pass of this nature.
If we fail it will be down to lack of goals as defensively we have been brilliant all season,yes! we would be more vulnerable but more goals are needed to achieve our goal.
We have some fantastic games coming up ,now is the time for that bravery.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Or backwards to Norwood, before a long punt down the left, which is what happened. There have been some spells under Wilder where I've thought our tactics have needed tweaking, especially when teams in each of the three divisions have started realising our quality and made specific alterations to their usual tactics to stop us from playing, notably stop our overloads. Every time Wilder has addressed it.

Quoting myself from another post:




As can be seen, our passing moves haven't brought us a lot of goals recently, and I think opposition tactics have played a part. These can open up new vulnerabilities on their part though, and quicker switching of play, making use of players that do have space may be things to look at.

I agree. But I think that's much more likely to be addressed in the summer. It's a whole new pattern of play. Our current style is very much based on fluid swapping of positions and players knowing when they have to cover.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

I think Sander Berge has done ok so far, not poor, but not great either. I think most appreciate that it will take time to adapt to

• a new country
• a new league
• new teammates
• new playing style
• new role

And it's going to take time for said teammates to adapt to him as well. Lundstram, they know all about. How he moves, what he's good at. When he wants the ball. What he does with it. The formation change last summer opened up an ideal spot for him and he's done very well. The teammates are still not sure how to integrate him in our playing style. The neat combination play down each side requires great relationship and understanding between players, and it's not there yet when Berge plays.

A few fans are questioning him already. A £20m+ international with Champions League experience, shouldn't we expect more? I'm sure we'll get more, but it may take a bit longer than we and Wilder hoped.

One thing I really like about Berge is his runs on the ball. With a bit of space he can really drive at the opposition and glide past opponents. People may not be aware that he is really fast, and he's got the skill to beat a man. I'd like his teammates to look for such opportunities. If he's unmarked and in some space, give him the ball and see what he can do with it.


Let's have some patience - with him, but also with his teammates who are still not sure whereabouts he is and when to look for him. Some examples, all from the first 25 minutes vs Brighton:



* Sharp shooting, rather than squaring it to Berge in the box:
View attachment 72291


* Sharp nodding the ball back to McBurnie, not to Berge who's got acres of space:
View attachment 72292


* McBurnie passing back to Fleck/Norwood, rather than Berge, again with space in front of him:
View attachment 72293


* Norwood going to the left, rather than to Berge on the right:
View attachment 72294


* O'Connell passing backwards, rather than aiming for the unmarked Berge (who made a gesture that he wanted the ball):
View attachment 72295


* Fleck who turned into his man (though luckily got past him), rather than giving it to Berge:
View attachment 72296


* Egan passing back to Hendo, rather than finding the unmarked Berge with their midfield awol:
View attachment 72297



* Sharp chipping it to their centre backs (think he aimed for McBurnie) rahter than passing low to Berge:
View attachment 72298


* Basham passing out to Baldock, rather than threading it through to Berge:
View attachment 72299


I'm not saying all of these were easy passes to make, maybe not all were right either. But I think they show that Berge did take up some good positions, did make some good runs and he could have been used more.

Ice Berge = 10%

 

[Bergen Blade]

I agree. But I think that's much more likely to be addressed in the summer. It's a whole new pattern of play. Our current style is very much based on fluid swapping of positions and players knowing when they have to cover.

Yes, but Wilder has addressed things like that during the season before as well. The signings of Hanson and Madine played their part. Last season I thought there was a few things we needed to look at, hence starting a thread looking at how we scored our goals. I updated it in January, but after that I thought the problem had been adressed, so didn't even bother updating the stats for the rest of the season.

Looking at the January signings, all tallish, quick athletic guys who can play, I think Wilder is looking to make us quicker and more dynamic, and you're probably right we'll look to develop even more in the summer.

 

[cooperblade]

I think the criticism of Berge is just part of football fans general impatience and 'want it now' attitude. It's too early to judge whether he's going to be a success or not although you can look for signs of what's going to come in the future like Bergen Blade has.

I do wonder if his seemingly languid style might lead to some of the criticism. He never looks like he's sprinting at full pelt to win the ball back and sometimes stylistic things like that can lead to fans having negative perceptions. Football fans are notoriously poor at changing from their first impression. A large group of United fans decided earlier on that Callum Robinson was lazy and literally nothing he did would change that belief for them.

If very early performances in a United career were a reliable indicator then Brian Howard would be our greatest player ever and John Egan would've been a complete flop.

 

[Harrisblade]

It is all about risk and reward and Wilder talks about being brave in possession. We are now in a position to show more bravery as relegation is not on the agenda now.
If we are serious about Europe we have to show more bravery and risk the occasional pass of this nature.
If we fail it will be down to lack of goals as defensively we have been brilliant all season,yes! we would be more vulnerable but more goals are needed to achieve our goal.
We have some fantastic games coming up ,now is the time for that bravery.

That particular pass wouldn't be brave, just daft.

 

[Maidenhead]

I know this maybe a touch controversial but he is a pass ahead of most of our team in terms of strategy, . The runs he is making are great and will eventually move the blades to the next level when our other players catch up imo. He creates space effortlessly and with the intelligent players we have in midfield it wont take long for him to pay off big style. Hes going to be the key to our progress.

I used to think the same about Sabella.

He was too good for the players around him and at times it made him look daft too.

 

[Champagneblade]

I think Sander Berge has done ok so far, not poor, but not great either. I think most appreciate that it will take time to adapt to

• a new country
• a new league
• new teammates
• new playing style
• new role

And it's going to take time for said teammates to adapt to him as well. Lundstram, they know all about. How he moves, what he's good at. When he wants the ball. What he does with it. The formation change last summer opened up an ideal spot for him and he's done very well. The teammates are still not sure how to integrate him in our playing style. The neat combination play down each side requires great relationship and understanding between players, and it's not there yet when Berge plays.

A few fans are questioning him already. A £20m+ international with Champions League experience, shouldn't we expect more? I'm sure we'll get more, but it may take a bit longer than we and Wilder hoped.

One thing I really like about Berge is his runs on the ball. With a bit of space he can really drive at the opposition and glide past opponents. People may not be aware that he is really fast, and he's got the skill to beat a man. I'd like his teammates to look for such opportunities. If he's unmarked and in some space, give him the ball and see what he can do with it.


Let's have some patience - with him, but also with his teammates who are still not sure whereabouts he is and when to look for him. Some examples, all from the first 25 minutes vs Brighton:



* Sharp shooting, rather than squaring it to Berge in the box:
View attachment 72291


* Sharp nodding the ball back to McBurnie, not to Berge who's got acres of space:
View attachment 72292


* McBurnie passing back to Fleck/Norwood, rather than Berge, again with space in front of him:
View attachment 72293


* Norwood going to the left, rather than to Berge on the right:
View attachment 72294


* O'Connell passing backwards, rather than aiming for the unmarked Berge (who made a gesture that he wanted the ball):
View attachment 72295


* Fleck who turned into his man (though luckily got past him), rather than giving it to Berge:
View attachment 72296


* Egan passing back to Hendo, rather than finding the unmarked Berge with their midfield awol:
View attachment 72297



* Sharp chipping it to their centre backs (think he aimed for McBurnie) rahter than passing low to Berge:
View attachment 72298


* Basham passing out to Baldock, rather than threading it through to Berge:
View attachment 72299


I'm not saying all of these were easy passes to make, maybe not all were right either. But I think they show that Berge did take up some good positions, did make some good runs and he could have been used more.

Good points, Sander. Sorry, Bergen

 

[Edinblade]

When Sharp shot into the side netting against Bournemouth, Berge was right there in the centre waiting for a tap in.

 

[Yoonited]

• Speaking in a Sheffield dialect

Except thiz ony Billy wot duz

 

[varkanoid]

Controversial but I think Berge will turn out to be a better buy than McBurnie. When he starts to gel and be up to speed with the rest of the team he is going to get goals.