60 years ago this month...

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A post to whet your appetite for the next match. Have a look at the front page picture for the programme (the same picture was used for the whole 1961-62 season), and compare it with the 1962 Penguin Classics edition of Kafka’s The Trial. Same artist or plagiarism? Both crowds look similarly threatening.
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November 11, 1961
United 3-1 Manchester City
Attendance: 18135

Back to winning ways, and Utd scored 3 goals for the first time this season, in front of another low crowd. Man City were big spenders at the time, but my main interest in looking forward to the game was that it was my first opportunity to see Bert Trautmann, hero of the 1956 Cup Final. He was unable to keep United at bay in this game, but more importantly, I was able to get his autograph after the game. All of this was an education for me - from the stereotype of the evil German enemy in post-war Britain to a recognition that he was not only an outstanding goalkeeper, but also came across as a good human-being. Youngsters are influenced by such role-models. It also served as a lesson that the best can be beaten, and the fact that United scored 3 for the first time all season past one of my heroes made victory all the sweeter.
There was not much that Trautmann could have done with any of the goals. The first was an own goal, via a misguided header that looped up and over him. The second was a beautiful penalty from Simpson; never having seen a Simpson penalty on film, I am not quite sure how he drove the ball in that direction with his body shaped in the way it was - the pictures from the scrapbook will, I hope, explain what I mean. And Trautmann would probably never have seen a Simpson penalty before - goalkeepers did not have the wealth of information that they have nowadays. The third goal was Simpson at his best - left-foot drive quickly executed from the edge of the area, hard and low across the keeper and into the bottom corner. One to be enjoyed by those behind the Kop goal.
Me and my brother had Hartle as man-of-the-match. For a while the partnership of Hartle at inside-left and Simpson on the wing worked well (much better than the other way round), but it was not to be a long-term partnership.
Recommended reading from the material following in the next post (some kindly supplied again by Silent Blade ): Heap’s cartoon (spoiler alert - Wednesday did concede a late winning goal 🤣); the programme notes on attempts to bring in new players, and benefit payments to players; and good photos from the game.
 
Never seen this thread before - i am mezmorized by it and thank you and all contributors for their inputs . Love it and hope to add some memories of my own once i digest more from 1961 when i was born and Sept 1970 when i attended my first game at BDTBL V Bristol City , 3-3 .

Scrap books hey - wish i had my own to hand - some fantastic memories . Theres something to be said for waiting for the Green Un and poring over it all Sat night - then doing it all again on Sunday morning with the nationals only to then summarise it all in Mondays Star and Morning Telegraph.

Once again - thanks
 
Bert said:
The autograph, what happened to it?
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I kept my programmes and scrapbooks. I sold my model train set. I have no idea what happened to my autograph collection. It was several books, full of pictures from football magazines, with the likes of autographs of Bobby Charlton, Danny Blanchflower, etc. I suspect it disappeared while I was away at university, but I never managed to force a confession from my parents… Complete mystery. I will probably wake up one morning and remember that I sold them…
 
Bell4 said:
Never seen this thread before - i am mezmorized by it and thank you and all contributors for their inputs . Love it and hope to add some memories of my own once i digest more from 1961 when i was born and Sept 1970 when i attended my first game at BDTBL V Bristol City , 3-3 .

Scrap books hey - wish i had my own to hand - some fantastic memories . Theres something to be said for waiting for the Green Un and poring over it all Sat night - then doing it all again on Sunday morning with the nationals only to then summarise it all in Mondays Star and Morning Telegraph.

Once again - thanks
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what a first season for you bell can remember your first game the lane was in shock after brizzle went 3 up lol mind for me that fightback that day started our fantastic promotion push that season off
 
Monday, November 13, 1961
League Cup, 3rd Round
United 1-0 Portsmouth
Attendance: 6018

Two days after an important win over ManCity, and with Mason and Orr deputising for Graham Shaw and Summers, United managed to keep their first League Cup run going with a late winner from Simpson, again with assistance from Barry Hartle. The crowd was a disappointing 6018, and I am ashamed to say that I do not know if I was one of the absentees. The scrapbook has no material about this game, I have a copy of the programme, but it has none of the usual scribblings in it, and I have no memory of the game at all. Again, it is Silent Blade who has come to the rescue, with a copy of the match report. None of it jogs my memory, so perhaps it was a rare missed home game; having read the report, it sounds as if staying in to wash my hair was not a bad option.
Before moving onto the pics, I would just like to remember the impressive Ron Flowers, whose death was announced today. The first action of 1961-62 at the Lane was a trademark Flowers powering through to score (see the picture in post 622). There was something of Duncan Edwards about him.
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November 18, 1961
West Brom 3-1 United
Attendance: 20,200 (acc to my brother’s
programme jotting)
19,392 (acc to Denis
Clarebrough)
20,000 (acc to Green ‘Un)

This was the 4th successive away match United had lost, so that any ground being made up in home matches was then lost in away matches. Fortunately, this was enough to keep United within touching distance of the bulk of the other sides, but the league position did not look good:
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I didn’t get to this game, but the reports (thanks again, Silent Blade ) and comments in the following week’s programme suggest that the final score was not a fair reflection of United’s performance. My brother appears not to have done player ratings in my absence, so I don’t have evidence to confirm this. But it appears unfortunate that the 1-1 after 87 minutes turned into a 3-1 defeat, with Kevan completing a hat-trick with 2 goals in 2 minutes. Kevan was a very good striker, but not quite a great one, although he certainly knew how to score goals.
Kettlebrough’s goal appears to have been a beauty, with skill and then accuracy in his final shot. John Hathaway’s report describes it in detail, and also puts it in the context of a player who had begun to get some stick from the United crowd. He was unfortunate with injuries in his years at the Lane, and never became consistently the strong midfielder we needed.
Two fun facts:
1. Derek Kevan had a very unusual middle name - Tennyson. Can’t have been many footballers with that name.
2. When starting family history research some years ago, I found out that my mother-in-law’s cousin was (and still is) the youngest player ever to have played for West Brom. This came as a shock - when she said that her cousin was a good footballer, I always assumed that he played local amateur football. Charlie Wilson was born in Heeley, but somehow United missed out on him. He signed for West Brom in 1920, the year in which they were league champions, and made his debut in 1921, aged 16 years and 73 days. He then (horror of horrors) signed for Wednesday in 1928 for £3000, and was with them for 4 of the most successful years in their history. I consulted a solicitor to see if this was grounds for annulment of my marriage, but he was unable to help. Family history can produce big surprises. I apologise for this photo of a Wednesday player (who to me looks like Jose Baxter):
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In the following post, pics from the programme (interesting history of Utd, terrible notes on the players), and match reports.
 

Silent Blade said:
Why was Keith Kettleborough often the target for the boo boys?
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I don’t remember any specific reasons. He was a significant signing, but never really became a strong consistent presence, largely because of injuries, was my understanding. I suppose if social media had been around then, instead of being booed by some in the crowd, he would have been abused online as a ‘wage thief’.
 
Silent Blade said:
Why was Keith Kettleborough often the target for the boo boys?
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I hope my memory is not letting me down about this , but I seem to recall that much of it revolved around a match where he got himself sent off early in the game for a ridiculous challenge and appeared to have deliberately done so , since he walked before the referee even approached him .

It could have been a cup match and possibly against Villa but I wouldn’t swear to either but I’m pretty sure it was him and that along with many others , I was angry at the stupidity of it and that it cost us an important match that we could have won .
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
I hope my memory is not letting me down about this , but I seem to recall that much of it revolved around a match where he got himself sent off early in the game for a ridiculous challenge and appeared to have deliberately done so , since he walked before the referee even approached him .

It could have been a cup match and possibly against Villa but I wouldn’t swear to either but I’m pretty sure it was him and that along with many others , I was angry at the stupidity of it and that it cost us an important match that we could have won .
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correct joe fa cup 4th round v aston villa around 63/64 he walked before the ref got within 10 yards of him
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
Many thanks for the confirmation .

I was fairly sure I’d remembered this correctly but with folk like Silent and Hodgy around , you can never be too careful . :)
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I am very tolerant of misinformation on COVID vaccines🤣, but something serious like what happened 60 years ago… that’s a different matter. The only thing I would add is that the comment on the boo boys at the Lane refers to 1961, so he must have been a target by then. I have no recollection why.
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
I hope my memory is not letting me down about this , but I seem to recall that much of it revolved around a match where he got himself sent off early in the game for a ridiculous challenge and appeared to have deliberately done so , since he walked before the referee even approached him .

It could have been a cup match and possibly against Villa but I wouldn’t swear to either but I’m pretty sure it was him and that along with many others , I was angry at the stupidity of it and that it cost us an important match that we could have won .
Click to expand...
The sending off in the Villa Cup game was in January 1965 (we lost 2-0). He was already the target for the boo boys in 1961.
 
Silent Blade said:
The sending off in the Villa Cup game was in January 1965 (we lost 2-0). He was already the target for the boo boys in 1961.
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That report was part of Main Stream Media. It’s all part of… oops, sorry, wrong thread🤣
 
ancientblade said:
not good enough hodgy your slipping lol actually for some strange reason me and my mate were watching that match from in front of the cricket pavilion thats why i remember that incident
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If you were by the cricket pavilion, it’s a wonder you could see it, let alone remember it all these years later…
 

Tuesday October 31, 1961
Sheffield XI 5-8 Select XI
Hillsborough
Attendance: 25202

I fear further calls for my resignation. In searching in vain for the Utd v Villa programme the other day, I came across the programme for the match above, which strictly should be in a new thread called ‘60 Years Ago Last Month’ 🤣
The match was a benefit match for Doug McMillan, a teenager who had a leg amputated as a result of an accident to the Wednesday team bus on its way back from Arsenal the previous Boxing Day. There were awful echoes of what had happened to Derek Dooley 7 years previously. Dooley’s injury occurred before I had been to a football match, but I remember my Dad listening to the radio putting to one side any anti-Wednesday sentiments when updates were given on his injury. It made an impression on me for many years, as I often felt anxious when I cut my knee on a football pitch - I assumed there was something dangerous in the grass and mud which could lead to serious problems.
With Doug McMillan, I was older, and more affected emotionally knowing that a youngster close to making his debut would never play football again. I also felt bad that we had celebrated Wednesday losing the match at Arsenal.
Until seeing the programme, I had forgotten going to this game, which is pretty surprising in view of the Select XI lineup. And it is not every day that you witness an 8-5 score!
Two memories brought back by the programme:
1. There was something very unsettling about seeing Joe Shaw wearing blue-and-white stripes.
2. The linesman with the red flag was, I am sure, Don Payne, who my Dad played cricket with for many years. I think he was for a time a league referee, probably only in the lower leagues.
Pictures of the programme:
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