60 years ago this month...

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

great stuff hodgy was only 9 at this time so dont recollect a lot of that season but this thread is going to be a great read for the next 18 months keep em coming

Thanks for the kind words. I will need some help next season, because my scrapbook becomes more sporadic and stops altogether mid-season, and also I was playing in an older age-group (under-15s) at school football, with a lot more matches, which stopped me getting to away games. I thought I would continue putting up results and the bits of information I have, hoping that others can fill in the gaps. No problem with local derbies, I guess. I have really enjoyed doing the 1960-61 season - 2 games to go, of course!

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

View attachment 111025

Thanks. Never seen that picture before.

 

[bornablade]

The contrasting seasons for both sides of the city. Both clubs 2nd in their respective seasons in 1961. Both relegated (more than likely) in 2021.

A Wednesday fan could be logging the events of their season 60 years ago and comparing it with their disastrous season this time round.

The photo of Conwell the Derby full back heading the ball off the line is similar to Norwood's header on Saturday.

As you say Hodgy 'nothing lasts forever'.

 

[ancientblade]

Thanks for the kind words. I will need some help next season, because my scrapbook becomes more sporadic and stops altogether mid-season, and also I was playing in an older age-group (under-15s) at school football, with a lot more matches, which stopped me getting to away games. I thought I would continue putting up results and the bits of information I have, hoping that others can fill in the gaps. No problem with local derbies, I guess. I have really enjoyed doing the 1960-61 season - 2 games to go, of course!

ive only 2 scrap books left hodgy used to have about 8 but will try and post some pics on this thread although im useless putting things on mobile phone lol

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

The contrasting seasons for both sides of the city. Both clubs 2nd in their respective seasons in 1961. Both relegated (more than likely) in 2021.

A Wednesday fan could be logging the events of their season 60 years ago and comparing it with their disastrous season this time round.

The photo of Conwell the Derby full back heading the ball off the line is similar to Norwood's header on Saturday.

As you say Hodgy 'nothing lasts forever'.

Spot on. I am hoping Wednesday will complete the symmetry by finishing bottom this season: both Sheffield teams 2nd in 1961, both bottom in 2021. It would provide a little consolation for us. Though, to tell the truth, it tells the story that Sheffield football has really not progressed in 60 years.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

ive only 2 scrap books left hodgy used to have about 8 but will try and post some pics on this thread although im useless putting things on mobile phone lol

Putting pictures up is not something for me to give advice on. The last batch for the Derby game came out in a totally random order, with programme and scrapbook photos all mixed together. Nothing to do with anything I did, honest! People are very forgiving, I find.
By the way, I am offended by your username. If you are ancientblade, I need to become ‘ready for the knackersyardblade’.

 

[ancientblade]

Putting pictures up is not something for me to give advice on. The last batch for the Derby game came out in a totally random order, with programme and scrapbook photos all mixed together. Nothing to do with anything I did, honest! People are very forgiving, I find.
By the way, I am offended by your username. If you are ancientblade, I need to become ‘ready for the knackersyardblade’.

70 this year hodgy at least this thread and the 50 years ago thread doesnt attract the younger end of our support arguing bitching and threatning each other online lol

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

70 this year hodgy at least this thread and the 50 years ago thread doesnt attract the younger end of our support arguing bitching and threatning each other online lol

Quite right. Mind you, it’s hard to argue about football 60 years ago. I realised when doing this that if someone had been doing this in 1961, they would have been writing about 1900-01. A great season, but ancient history!

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

April 22, 1961
Bristol Rovers 3-1 United
Attendance: 13052

This match was truly ‘after the Lord Mayor’s Show’, but for once, few were concerned. United had won promotion, and the same 11 players turned out 3 days later, and it was no surprise that they lost; I remember not being concerned - winning the League would have been good, but the real aim was promotion. I didn’t go to the game, have no report or photos in the scrapbook, and found just 1 photograph on the internet, showing Bristol Rovers hitting the bar.
The programme for the game is a good one, with a generous appraisal of United’s season and history (lowest ever position thus far - 11th in Division 2 - ouch!), and a good squad photograph, which includes Pat Laverty, who died relatively recently. Their comments on Bill Russell are impressive, and confirm my impression that Bristol Rovers were at the time a friendly club (who unfortunately often used to beat us!) And a small detail: Ray Mabbutt, an established Bristol Rovers player who played that day, was father of Gary and Trevor Mabbutt, who both had good careers in professional football. Quite a family!
So, apologies for the meagre fare today. Next week it is the last game of the season, with plenty to discuss. A small warning: we are used now to final games of the season having a special atmosphere, even if the season has not been a great success; the last games of the season 60 years ago were generally anything but special...

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

April 29, 1961
Utd 4-1 Middlesbrough
Attendance: 18868

And so to the end of a hugely enjoyable and successful season, with promotion already confirmed and the best attempt we have ever made in my lifetime of getting to a Wembley Cup Final. Even after such a successful campaign, it was normal at the time for the last match to be a low-key affair, usually with an atmosphere akin to a pre-season friendly. This was more of an occasion than normal, but the attendance was still low; it was quite an entertaining game, with United kicking the ‘wrong way’, so I joined those who went round to the Lane End for the second half, and we were thus right behind the goal for all 4 United goals, and for 3 of them we were able to disturb the peace for the miserable old gits who stood in silence at the Lane End. The match was encouraging for the future in that Len Allchurch was again the outstanding player, and there was a good debut for our (then) youngest-ever player, Tony Wagstaff, who really impressed at inside-forward. Although he went on to play over 150 games for us, he never became the player I thought he would on the basis of his excellent debut. The match report unfortunately focussed on a controversial incident that I have no recollection of, and which I am sure the writer exaggerated.
Ex-Blade Willie Hamilton was presumably out injured, so the 2 Boro players of greatest interest were Brian Clough and ex-Blade Ronnie Waldock; neither made much of an impression, unlike the away match where Clough was a serious threat and a clear talent.
I have reproduced the page from the programme showing appearances and goals, and adding in the Boro match it shows the remarkable stat that in a 42-match league, 8 of our players made 40, 41 or 42 appearances; most of them also played 7 Cup games. As there were no substitutes, this is a phenomenal amount of football, and reflects their consistency as a team unit. And if you include the Cup, Pace and Russell were before the game joint leading scorers with 24 goals; with 10 minutes to go, they were both on 25 goals, and it surprises me not one bit that Pace scored a late goal which meant he ended the season top-scorer. He was a great team player, but he did love scoring goals...
The programme notes again repeat the worry about crowd numbers, and, not untypically, deny rumours that we were going to buy new players; that is one denial unitedites will always believe!

I think for most of us the arrival of the last game of the season was tolerable. The Cup Final was a huge televised highlight to look forward to, and cricket for many of us was what summer should be about. And a 6-week school holiday was worth the sacrifice of no football to watch. There was even, as advertised in the programme, a visit by the Harlem Globetrotters to anticipate, an event which I thoroughly enjoyed. But returning to the Lane to see Spurs, Bobby Charlton, Bert Trautmann, etc., also meant that late August was something to really look forward to.
I will add the pictures in the next post.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Pics of the Middlesbrough match:

 

[Silent Blade]

LSF has a story to say about the match!

 

[Silent Blade]

Nov 12, 1960: Southampton 0-1 United
Attendance: 27405
Another really important win, away at Southampton, who were 4th in the league; the gap between Utd and the teams behind them was growing into a useful lead. The crowd of over 27000 was the 7th Southampton home match (out of 9) with a crowd of over 20000; United’s biggest crowd thus far was under 18000. In an era when the majority of a club’s income was via gate-money, United were clearly at a disadvantage.
The team was a little less settled than earlier in the season - Mason was still standing in for the injured Graham Shaw, Hartle was dropped (as my brother noted in the programme, because of the heavy ground) for the mud lark Hodgson, and Nibloe was about to miss games because of National Service commitments, a complication unknown in the modern game.
View attachment 97707
The performance at Southampton appears to have been a strong one, against a good side. England manager Walter Winterbottom was at the game, and was very complimentary. He was presumably watching the Southampton wingers, Paine and Sydenham, and Hodgy and Joe Shaw for United. United’s defensive record was by some way the best in the Division, and while it is impressive that the England manager was attending a League 2 match, it seemed wrong to many of us that Joe Shaw never won a full England cap.
View attachment 97710The programme is disappointing, though I liked the autograph page. Memories of distinctive signatures stick in the mind - I can confirm that the Terry Paine and John Sydenham are genuine. It still bugs me that I can’t remember what happened to my autograph books!
View attachment 97711View attachment 97712View attachment 97713I was unable to go to Southampton, but in addition to celebrating Utd’s win, I was lucky enough to be at another exciting game. Details to follow tomorrow.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

LSF has a story to say about the match!

I hope it isn’t that his father/grandfather used to stand at the Lane End and hated noisy kids with rattles coming round at half-time!

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

View attachment 111625

Thanks. Never seen that picture before. Heap’s cartoon from 200 miles away did a decent job of capturing it.

 

[LSF]

I hope it isn’t that his father/grandfather used to stand at the Lane End and hated noisy kids with rattles coming round at half-time!

Thankfully not
And thanks to Silent Blade for reminding me it was 60 years ago I went to my first Blades game with my dad and uncle.
And got hit in the face with the match ball! (see flashing blade for full account )

 

[Silent Blade]

Thankfully not
And thanks to Silent Blade for reminding me it was 60 years ago I went to my first Blades game with my dad and uncle.
And got hit in the face with the match ball! (see flashing blade for full account )

 

[LSF]

View attachment 111629

That's the man Silent, I've never forgiven him

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Thankfully not
And thanks to Silent Blade for reminding me it was 60 years ago I went to my first Blades game with my dad and uncle.
And got hit in the face with the match ball! (see flashing blade for full account )

Sorry to ‘like’ the fact that you got hit by the ball! If it makes you feel better, I have been standing/sitting behind the goal for nearly 70 years, and with my goalkeeping interests have always wanted to catch the match ball (or drop it!), but have never once had the opportunity. I will probably end up being killed by being hit by the ball

 

[LSF]

Sorry to ‘like’ the fact that you got hit by the ball! If it makes you feel better, I have been standing/sitting behind the goal for nearly 70 years, and with my goalkeeping interests have always wanted to catch the match ball (or drop it!), but have never once had the opportunity. I will probably end up being killed by being hit by the ball

It was probably 25 years ago when I wrote the piece for FB and I think my words were to the effect of 'first game and the ball came my way, it's never felt the need to come my way since.'
And 25 years on it still hasn't! Had my moment of glory my first game!

 

[LSF]

Pics of the Middlesbrough match:
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I note Tony Wagstaff pencilled in to replace Bill Hodgson. I believe it was Wagstaff's debut. He looked about 14, so slim and fresh faced was he, (he was 17 I think).
A player much maligned by the Lane boo boys, unfairly too in my opinion. A skilfull footballer and excellent passer, but didn't get 'stuck in' enough for the blood and guts fans back then.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

I note Tony Wagstaff pencilled in to replace Bill Hodgson. I believe it was Wagstaff's debut. He looked about 14, so slim and fresh faced was he, (he was 17 I think).
A player much maligned by the Lane boo boys, unfairly too in my opinion. A skilfull footballer and excellent passer, but didn't get 'stuck in' enough for the blood and guts fans back then.

I remember thinking he was going to really make it. According to the United ‘Who’s Who’ he was affected by the negative crowd reaction, and preferred playing in away matches. We do sometimes forget that players are human-beings.

 

[ancientblade]

I remember thinking he was going to really make it. According to the United ‘Who’s Who’ he was affected by the negative crowd reaction, and preferred playing in away matches. We do sometimes forget that players are human-beings.

yes he was a target for the boo boys but he was a good inside forward and his brother barry was a good wing half any younger blades reading this wont know what the hell im on about with these positions lol

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

The Financial Rewards of Promotion

A few days after the season ended, according to Hodgy’s autobiography, the players received a reward to recognise their efforts in securing promotion. Blacow Yates and another unnamed director announced to the assembled squad that each of them would receive a posh raincoat and a barometer, in addition to £4. 10 shillings in cash for expenses on the end-of-season tour to Holland. The players, needless to say, were distinctly underwhelmed.
Hodgy’s autobiography is full of good anecdotes, and conveys very well his personality, his feelings during his long career in football, and gives a good idea of football across the decades. But don’t rely on it for historical accuracy. Regrettably, somewhere between Hodgy, his co-writer Les Scott, and the publisher, a lot of factual accuracy is lost. In the final games of the season, for example, he says the Derby game was an away match, and develops a whole narrative of mid-table Derby receiving a welcome boost from the income from thousands of Blades fans travelling there; for the Middlesbrough match, he has a noisy crowd of over 30000, when it was not even 20000. I recommend the book as a good read, but don’t rely on it for detailed factual accuracy.

 

[ancientblade]

The Financial Rewards of Promotion

A few days after the season ended, according to Hodgy’s autobiography, the players received a reward to recognise their efforts in securing promotion. Blacow Yates and another unnamed director announced to the assembled squad that each of them would receive a posh raincoat and a barometer, in addition to £4. 10 shillings in cash for expenses on the end-of-season tour to Holland. The players, needless to say, were distinctly underwhelmed.
Hodgy’s autobiography is full of good anecdotes, and conveys very well his personality, his feelings during his long career in football, and gives a good idea of football across the decades. But don’t rely on it for historical accuracy. Regrettably, somewhere between Hodgy, his co-writer Les Scott, and the publisher, a lot of factual accuracy is lost. In the final games of the season, for example, he says the Derby game was an away match, and develops a whole narrative of mid-table Derby receiving a welcome boost from the income from thousands of Blades fans travelling there; for the Middlesbrough match, he has a noisy crowd of over 30000, when it was not even 20000. I recommend the book as a good read, but don’t rely on it for detailed factual accuracy.

yes its a great read but lots of factual mistakes the biggest one being that it was west ham who sent us down in 68

 

[Silent Blade]

yes its a great read but lots of factual mistakes the biggest one being that it was west ham who sent us down in 68

Chelsea

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

May 1st, 1961 European Tour

As a little bonus (for the United players and my readers ), United began a short tour of Holland, West Germany, and Luxembourg. The first picture below gives the results as listed in Denis Clarebrough’s ‘The First Hundred Years’. I know nothing more about this tour, other than the fact that I apparently acquired from a programme dealer the programme for the second game, against D.W.S.-Amsterdam. Pictures of the programme below. If anyone understands Dutch and can find content of interest, please let me know! The one thing I have deduced for myself is that Shiels presumably played on this tour (and scored 3 goals) because Billy Russell would be doing his day job as a languages teacher.
I will have another little bonus post towards the end of next week.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

May 6, 1961. FA Cup Final
Leicester 0-2 Spurs

The football season for me used to end with the Cup Final, always played on the first Saturday in May. For anyone growing up in the 50s, Cup Final Saturday became a ritual, one of the few days where football dominated the TV day. The first Final I saw was the 1953 Matthews Final; friends up the road had acquired a 9” black-and-white TV, for the Coronation, I think, and invited us to watch the Cup Final. I was 6 years old, and watching the likes of Matthews and Lofthouse in a 4-3 thriller had me hooked. In the September, I went to the Lane for my first match, against Blackpool and Stanley Matthews, a match which Blackpool also won 4-3. The Cup Finals in the 1950s showcased great players and great drama. Tom Finney in 1954, Milburn in 1955, Trautmann’s heroics in 1956, playing with a broken neck, Man Utd losing Finals pre- and post-Munich, in 1957 and 1958, etc.
The Cup Final became the highlight of the year’s football calendar, and part of the ritual was to sit in front of the TV with the posh match programme, which you could order by post in advance of the game. So in 1961, we sat down to watch a great Spurs side become the first team to achieve the League and Cup Double in the 20th century, slightly disappointed that Utd were not their opponents. The 13-year-old me, however, was full of pride that an action photo of United took up half a page of the programme; promotion and a photo of United in the Cup Final programme seemed a decent return for a season’s labours. My reaction would no doubt been different if I had known that 60 years later we still had not made it to a Wembley Cup Final...

 

[Silent Blade]

My dad went to the cup final. He also went to 1949 and 1955 FA Cup finals too. He got the tickets because he was in the Sports committee for Prestwich Sports. I believe Bob Socks is still in possession of the three tickets. I remember my dad telling me that he had a chat with Bobby Smith's dad during half time in the 1961 final. Smith was from South Yorkshire.

 

[ancientblade]

yeah the highlight of the season was the cup final can remember being in tears after my first cup final aged 6 in 1958 when manchester united lost to bolton they were my 2nd team back then after munich nat lofthouse would have been red carded thesedays for that challenge on harry gregg and always the wembley hoodoo as it was called happened every year with one team having an injured player hobbling on the wing lol