3 points off top

[Snowflake]

Next season is a completely different issue, we need to keep yo-yoing to remain financially viable so we just have to accept that a season in the PL may bring misery and woe like the last couple. I think a fair few teams have just got on board with this now and accept the need to get there without actually splashing the cash and trying to stay there. Interestingly though the only team that went ‘all out’ to stay there in recent years struggled for a season or 2 but are now in the Champions League spots! Very risky though.

…and very expensive!!

 

[ancientblade]

I’ve being saying for a while I don’t think we’ve got the strength in depth for a top two spot & the injuries & suspensions are now catching up with us , we’ve been dogged & pragmatic digging out results which deserves a lot of credit but you get found out against the better sides .
We’ll be top 6 ( with additions this month ? ) but I can’t see past Leeds & Burnley for the autos . As the the OP says I would have snatched their hand off before a ball was kicked for the position we’re in but we’re gonna need backing to sustain it .
Outside Leeds & Burnley .. i think it’ll start to get very tight with us ,Sunderland , Boro , WBA , Blackburn for top 6 position. Still could even see a Norwich or alike been up there

yes agree with you there west st having said that were still in a very strong position for top 2 if we can get our 5 injured players back plus adding 3 good signings this month

 

[Charlieblade]

Next season is a completely different issue, we need to keep yo-yoing to remain financially viable so we just have to accept that a season in the PL may bring misery and woe like the last couple. I think a fair few teams have just got on board with this now and accept the need to get there without actually splashing the cash and trying to stay there. Interestingly though the only team that went ‘all out’ to stay there in recent years struggled for a season or 2 but are now in the Champions League spots! Very risky though.

The yo-yo principle works fine with the Prince as owner, it was the only thing he could do to pay all
the bills and keep the cub afloat financially.
I am reluctant to accept that limitation with new, more ambitious owners. It remains to be seen just how ambitious they are, but every season we end up back in the championship, will cause loss of revenue, and probably loss of key players too?
We may as well have stayed with the Prince?

We are no longer a comparison with other clubs, as the new owners have the stated aim of getting SUFC stable in the EPL. I agree the Forest approach is risky, but I don’t see the new owners having that kind of cash to splash. Spend less, but spend wiser. Without Wilder, they will get led astray.

 

[Houston_Blade]

The yo-yo principle works fine with the Prince as owner, it was the only thing he could do to pay all
the bills and keep the cub afloat financially.
I am reluctant to accept that limitation with new, more ambitious owners. It remains to be seen just how ambitious they are, but every season we end up back in the championship, will cause loss of revenue, and probably loss of key players too?
We may as well have stayed with the Prince?

We are no longer a comparison with other clubs, as the new owners have the stated aim of getting SUFC stable in the EPL. I agree the Forest approach is risky, but I don’t see the new owners having that kind of cash to splash. Spend less, but spend wiser. Without Wilder, they will get led astray.

I honestly don’t think there’s an option where you spend a reasonable amount of money and sustain a club in the PL. You look at the also rans in the PL, the likes of:

West Ham, Brighton, Bournemouth, Everton, Palace etc.

All have either been sailing close to the wind financially or have an owner willing to pour money in year after year. Even Brentford have spent heavily but do seem to have a good scouting model (or have been lucky!).

It remains to be seen what COH would throw at a team worthy of PL sustainability but we’re going to have to turn into a proper grown up type of club with good decisions and luck in the transfer market as well as lots of money for wages to be anywhere near the teams mentioned above.

 

[Charlieblade]

I honestly don’t think there’s an option where you spend a reasonable amount of money and sustain a club in the PL. You look at the also rans in the PL, the likes of:

West Ham, Brighton, Bournemouth, Everton, Palace etc.

All have either been sailing close to the wind financially or have an owner willing to pour money in year after year. Even Brentford have spent heavily but do seem to have a good scouting model (or have been lucky!).

It remains to be seen what COH would throw at a team worthy of PL sustainability but we’re going to have to turn into a proper grown up type of club with good decisions and luck in the transfer market as well as lots of money for wages to be anywhere near the teams mentioned above.

The answer, if the new owners are serious, is to invest in a couple of top quality PL standard loans to get us up this season, then spend some of the PL money to keep us there. The going rate for oven ready PL quality is probably. 25m each anyway. (Brighton seem to be doing ok).

My idea of PL stability is mid table at least. No playing hide and seek with relegation every year, like the clubs you mention.

Wilder does seem reluctant to invest outside UK?

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

After this Saturday, of the current top 14 in the division we will only have Burnley, Pigs and Swansea to play away.

This makes me confident that with new signings, and average luck with injuries, we should be able to maintain a challenge for automatic promotion.

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

We all foresaw this injury crisis, with our injury history and thin squad.

Fortunately, it’s not happened until we’ve had one of best ever starts to a season.

Obviously need reinforcements but we are in a very good position, way better than most of us thought.

 

[SGBlade]

Our second half of the season form would have to be relegation-like for us to not make top six. I don't there's any sort of risk on that.

As things stand, I do think we'll fall a long way short of top two because that's the trajectory we're on.
A brilliant January could change my mind, but I'm sceptical until the new owners prove themselves.

Yep, zero issues taking a top 6 position. We’ve had a run of hard games which have coincided with an injury crises. Same, to some extent, will probably happen to Leeds, Sunderland and Burnley before the season is through. Yes their squads are deeper but we might also be substantially stronger as well come the end of Jan.

If I had to bet now I’d say we’ll finish 3rd or 4th. I think the blaster injury has hit us harder than we all imagined. But we’re absolutely still in with a good shout of the top two. And even if we do finish 4th it will have been a good season of progression (on and off the pitch) considering where we were in May.

We’ll never win the fucking playoffs though!

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

The answer, if the new owners are serious, is to invest in a couple of top quality PL standard loans to get us up this season, then spend some of the PL money to keep us there. The going rate for oven ready PL quality is probably. 25m each anyway. (Brighton seem to be doing ok).

My idea of PL stability is mid table at least. No playing hide and seek with relegation every year, like the clubs you mention.

Wilder does seem reluctant to invest outside UK?

Problem is right there. £25m per player? How many stabilises us, first season up? £100-150m? Yo yo is a distinct possibility and one we should be ready for. Relegation isn't a disaster as long as it isn't like the last one.
Expecting mid table stability next season isn't realistic.

 

[Charlieblade]

That’s what the new owners will be expecting!!!

Hence my earlier comments about them being naive, and not understanding how English football works. It’s a typical American approach to any problem. Throw money at it, until the problem goes away. They can learn the hard way, or the easy way.

 

[Houston_Blade]

The answer, if the new owners are serious, is to invest in a couple of top quality PL standard loans to get us up this season, then spend some of the PL money to keep us there. The going rate for oven ready PL quality is probably. 25m each anyway. (Brighton seem to be doing ok).

My idea of PL stability is mid table at least. No playing hide and seek with relegation every year, like the clubs you mention.

Wilder does seem reluctant to invest outside UK?

To sustain as a PL club we’d have to spend far in excess of the additional money we’ll receive.

We’d need at least 6 or 7 ‘oven ready’ PL players, at £25m over a 4 year contract that’s around £40m per season in amortisation, plus we’d need to pay players the going rate in wages to attract them to the club. That number could be an additional £25m-£40m dependent on how serious we are. That’s before we give pay rises to our existing players. COH need to underwrite this spend or we’ll continue to yo-yo.

I’d love to think it’s possible but it depends on the attitude of the new owners.

We’d also have to spend the £25m’s very wisely, not something we have a track record of doing.

 

[CornwallBlade]

Problem is right there. £25m per player? How many stabilises us, first season up? £100-150m? Yo yo is a distinct possibility and one we should be ready for. Relegation isn't a disaster as long as it isn't like the last one.
Expecting mid table stability next season isn't realistic.

If we go up, survival in season 1 would be a fantastic result, ditto season 2 and then build from the financial platform that provides. no team is going straight from the Championship to top half EPL without massive investment and breaching FFP rules

 

[Charlieblade]

To sustain as a PL club we’d have to spend far in excess of the additional money we’ll receive.

We’d need at least 6 or 7 ‘oven ready’ PL players, at £25m over a 4 year contract that’s around £40m per season in amortisation, plus we’d need to pay players the going rate in wages to attract them to the club. That number could be an additional £25m-£40m dependent on how serious we are. That’s before we give pay rises to our existing players. COH need to underwrite this spend or we’ll continue to yo-yo.

I’d love to think it’s possible but it depends on the attitude of the new owners.

We’d also have to spend the £25m’s very wisely, not something we have a track record of doing.

They will probably believe they can do it with 2 or 3 quality (foreign) acquisitions, and the top 3 academy lads!
They are very good at business, but they don’t understand the difference between Championship and EPL What do they plan to do when a signing doesn’t make the grade or disrupts the team ethos that Wider has built. How many players at that price will fail?

Let’s wait and see what they do. Maybe I’m too cynical, or maybe I’m a hard bitten long time blades fan?

 

[Jimmy Fleck]

They will probably believe they can do it with 2 or 3 quality (foreign) acquisitions, and the top 3 academy lads!
They are very good at business, but they don’t understand the difference between Championship and EPL What do they plan to do when a signing doesn’t make the grade or disrupts the team ethos that Wider has built. How many players at that price will fail?

Let’s wait and see what they do. Maybe I’m too cynical, or maybe I’m a hard bitten long time blades fan?

Pretty sure they’ll leave it to the recruitment team and manager to sign players- who will know what is needed.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Pretty sure they’ll leave it to the recruitment team and manager to sign players- who will know what is needed.

What could go wrong?!

 

[Slugger]

If we go up, survival in season 1 would be a fantastic result, ditto season 2 and then build from the financial platform that provides. no team is going straight from the Championship to top half EPL without massive investment and breaching FFP rules

If only there was a manager available who could work miracles with a squad who would be tipped by everyone as relegation certainties.

A squad littered with lower league players and free transfers.

Someone who would get the team finishing in ... (don't laugh) ... NINTH POSITION!!

 

[Charlieblade]

If we go up, survival in season 1 would be a fantastic result, ditto season 2 and then build from the financial platform that provides. no team is going straight from the Championship to top half EPL without massive investment and breaching FFP rules

Did anyone let the new owners in on that? What return on investment?

If only there was a manager available who could work miracles with a squad who would be tipped by everyone as relegation certainties.

A squad littered with lower league players and free transfers.

Someone who would get the team finishing in ... (don't laugh) ... NINTH POSITION!!

 

[Keen Blade]

Next season is a completely different issue, we need to keep yo-yoing to remain financially viable so we just have to accept that a season in the PL may bring misery and woe like the last couple. I think a fair few teams have just got on board with this now and accept the need to get there without actually splashing the cash and trying to stay there. Interestingly though the only team that went ‘all out’ to stay there in recent years struggled for a season or 2 but are now in the Champions League spots! Very risky though.

The risk taker is allegedly an international criminal with unlimited dodgy cash so not an option for us who are owned by a consortium which probably has responsibility to its investors to manage risk.

 

[Houston_Blade]

The risk taker is allegedly an international criminal with unlimited dodgy cash so not an option for us who are owned by a consortium which probably has responsibility to its investors to manage risk.

I’d rather have an international criminal and be in the Champions League positions, we even managed to find the shit criminals!

 

[Keen Blade]

My idea of PL stability is mid table at least. No playing hide and seek with relegation every year, like the clubs you mention.

I doubt we can ever avoid being susceptible to relegation from the PL.
Foxes won it and have been relegated.
We aren't media darlings and suffer a lot of poor ref decisions.
Look at the ownership finances of the clubs who are already there.
The challenge will be to keep avoiding the drop for as long as possible and then if it happens , be in a strong enough position to return quickly.

 

[CornwallBlade]

I doubt we can ever avoid being susceptible to relegation from the PL.
Foxes won it and have been relegated.
We aren't media darlings and suffer a lot of poor ref decisions.
Look at the ownership finances of the clubs who are already there.
The challenge will be to keep avoiding the drop for as long as possible and then if it happens , be in a strong enough position to return quickly.

And they are facing another points deduction when they come back down….

 

[Charlieblade]

Did anyone let the new owners in on that? What return on investment?

Did anyone let the new owners in on that? What return on investment?

I doubt we can ever avoid being susceptible to relegation from the PL.
Foxes won it and have been relegated.
We aren't media darlings and suffer a lot of poor ref decisions.
Look at the ownership finances of the clubs who are already there.
The challenge will be to keep avoiding the drop for as long as possible and then if it happens , be in a strong enough position to return quickly.

This consortium has a duty to produce a return on investment for stakeholders. This requires management of risks.
They have convinced the EFL that they have the funds required to do that. Every time we lose PL status, we lose money and risk losing key players as well. I suspect that is not part of their plan?

How will they manage the risk of arbitrary injuries? How will they manage the risk of players not making the step up from EFL to EPL.

The first season back was a shock to pundits, opposition teams and probably CWAK too. Very few goals and even fewer injuries, especially to the back five who were a shining light defensively. Not taking away from Wilder, a fantastic achievement, but the stars definitely aligned that season.

Mediocrity is something we do well as a club. Stabilise then move on is the next challenge. I am not convinced that Wilder, or the new owners can do that. Too many external demands and the vagaries of English football. We shall wait and see?

 

[CornwallBlade]

If only there was a manager available who could work miracles with a squad who would be tipped by everyone as relegation certainties.

A squad littered with lower league players and free transfers.

Someone who would get the team finishing in ... (don't laugh) ... NINTH POSITION!!

Everyone keeps quoting that but what happened the following season? Long term financial stability comes from building resilience through the capability to remain in the EPL

 

[Keen Blade]

They will probably believe they can do it with 2 or 3 quality (foreign) acquisitions, and the top 3 academy lads!
They are very good at business, but they don’t understand the difference between Championship and EPL What do they plan to do when a signing doesn’t make the grade or disrupts the team ethos that Wider has built. How many players at that price will fail?

Let’s wait and see what they do. Maybe I’m too cynical, or maybe I’m a hard bitten long time blades fan?

If they have bought us without studying the reasons for (and £ consequences of) our last two yo-yo s , they should be called Dumb & Dumber.

I like to think that when spending £100m to acquire us , they'll have had a look , not only at our recent history , but also at the typical capital & revenue expenses (fees & wages) of clubs who've come up and managed to survive in the PL.

That's just basic market research.

They won't know about the curse put upon us by YCCC in 1973 ,
nor our usual fate at the hands of the Gods of Football.
And although no Blade would dare warn them , they'll be getting the picture soon enough ,
with the sesson-ending injuries to Blaster & Souttar
and all the other ones.
They'll already be wondering when they can experience a league victory.

 

[Charlieblade]

If they have bought us without studying the reasons for (and £ consequences of) our last two yo-yo s , they should be called Dumb & Dumber.

I like to think that when spending £100m to acquire us , they'll have had a look , not only at our recent history , but also at the typical capital & revenue expenses (fees & wages) of clubs who've come up and managed to survive in the PL.

That's just basic market research.

They won't know about the curse put upon us by YCCC in 1973 ,
nor our usual fate at the hands of the Gods of Football.
And although no Blade would dare warn them , they'll be getting the picture soon enough ,
with the sesson-ending injuries to Blaster & Souttar
and all the other ones.
They'll already be wondering when they can experience a league victory.

Worth remembering that they are new at this, and they will base their initial and future investment on business principles applicable to success in US markets.
Yes, I expect a degree of due diligence by them, but it will be done following other consortiums trying to do the same thing.

Facing the fact that we are not a wealthy top six club, this deal to acquire SUFC has been done on the cheaper end of the scale.

Getting the club stable in the EPL will be their priority, along with managing a risk to their investment. It will give them voting rights as an increasing presence of American investment in the EPL. You don’t have to look too far ahead to realise the implications of this deal.

New, wealthy owners, yes. New business looking for long term financial gain seems a bit dubious to me! The club could become a huge success, or another low budget failure? See what happens next.

 

[finlaytheblade]

The yo-yo principle works fine with the Prince as owner, it was the only thing he could do to pay all
the bills and keep the cub afloat financially.
I am reluctant to accept that limitation with new, more ambitious owners. It remains to be seen just how ambitious they are, but every season we end up back in the championship, will cause loss of revenue, and probably loss of key players too?
We may as well have stayed with the Prince?

We are no longer a comparison with other clubs, as the new owners have the stated aim of getting SUFC stable in the EPL. I agree the Forest approach is risky, but I don’t see the new owners having that kind of cash to splash. Spend less, but spend wiser. Without Wilder, they will get led astray.

Like Wilder led the Prince astray with the big spend initially on promotion.
I think Wilder will also have learned from that period as well.
Unless you take the risks forest'
did its a big struggle but! bring it on .
We will make a better fist of it given the opportunity this time I'm sure.