10 Games in: Trying to be convinced

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Before Clough was sacked, we were as close to a complete agreement as we've ever been - we had to urgently sign some defenders. If Clough kept his job and didn't make signings at the back, he was to be run out of town by an angry, shoeless mob.

The delay in Clough's sacking and Adkins' appointment didn't help our squad planning but I was surprised that this obvious need to sign defenders was seemingly forgotten. It still feels a bit like we're making do at the back now. Wallace's performances at left back have been a welcome bonus but it's taken a long time to get that position sorted.

Blunkett could see the problem.

Convinced Adkins is the right man.

Unconvinced about some of our players.

I was [still am] pleased with the appointment and think we got lucky but there is a niggling doubt creeping in based on him not getting CH's in and his statement about being able to coach the players to be better.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

View attachment 13730

Bumble battery Stanley knife blades direction of air flow?

 

[HighfieldBlade]

Bumble battery Stanley knife blades direction of air flow?

Oops, wrong thread.

Spoiler

Be positive. Up The Blades!

 

[davidpinder]

Oh and for the record the dug outs were a donation from Winchester Cars

will let them off then

 

[davidpinder]

I don't think it's about throwing money at the team, this is the point, it's about investing properly - the pitch, the manager, academy, players...

But not just any players, we've got a big squad and wasted wages, whilst they're not on big wages we need to shift the players that Adkins doesn't want.

My frustration with sacking clough was not so much the love of clough but the constant changing of the manager. Not every failing is the fault of the manager. At Sheffield United it always is... Every season! We need to invest time in Adkins now that he's here, 3-4 years at least. Let him build and develop the club ethos and playing style.

Oh and for the record the dug outs were a donation from Winchester Cars

I just think the bottom line is we need to get out of this league in order for the club to move forward, i honestly think it could be the last season for many season ticket holders they won't keep believing in all the hype over a promotion push for another season and the only way to get out is spend on players, look at BC, Wolves, Charlton etc, Charlton especially were nearly a brand new team.

 

[SwissBlade]

I just think the bottom line is we need to get out of this league in order for the club to move forward, i honestly think it could be the last season for many season ticket holders they won't keep believing in all the hype over a promotion push for another season and the only way to get out is spend on players, look at BC, Wolves, Charlton etc, Charlton especially were nearly a brand new team.

I agree we have to get out of this league, but it has to be through progress. Otherwise we'll be straight back.

As for season tickets, I'll continue with mine whilst it's cheap. That's regardless of division

 

[Revolution]

Good thread.

At the moment, we are a playoff team, though I don't see the promoted teams needing to get as many points as last year, so we have a chance if we recruit right and injured players come back and perform.

Attack has seen a big improvement. Sharp and Sammon miss too many chances but playing 2 up makes this matter less.

Midfield and defence have exactly the same problems they had before Adkins was appointed. Central defence is weak ( as was left back, though if we've seen the last of Captain Calamity we are in better shape). Plus we are still blessed with a lightweight non creating non scoring midfield. We are not going to go up with a Coutts-Basham-Reed- Flynn midfield (especially if first change is Scougall).

Playoff defeat as usual unless we actually get off our backsides and recruit a couple of good players to plug these holes.

Port Vale will be interesting. That's just the sort of game that Clough would lose. We need to win games like that to go up.

 

[Bladesince59]

We are looking OK - more attractive to watch than under NegNig conceding too many and scoring too few. Not sure that OK will get us promoted. Harries, Brayford and Done will be a massive improvement - I guess we are hoping we aren;t too far adrift by then.

 

[Grappler]

Good thread.

At the moment, we are a playoff team, though I don't see the promoted teams needing to get as many points as last year, so we have a chance if we recruit right and injured players come back and perform.

Attack has seen a big improvement. Sharp and Sammon miss too many chances but playing 2 up makes this matter less.

Midfield and defence have exactly the same problems they had before Adkins was appointed. Central defence is weak ( as was left back, though if we've seen the last of Captain Calamity we are in better shape). Plus we are still blessed with a lightweight non creating non scoring midfield. We are not going to go up with a Coutts-Basham-Reed- Flynn midfield (especially if first change is Scougall).

Playoff defeat as usual unless we actually get off our backsides and recruit a couple of good players to plug these holes.

Port Vale will be interesting. That's just the sort of game that Clough would lose. We need to win games like that to go up.

"..Midfield and defence have exactly the same problems they had before Adkins was appointed..."

Yep, that is one of the main issues. Remember the days when we had Lee Williamson in midfield and he scored 14, and was not playing every game through injury!

 

[BushBlade]

I don't dispute our defence was poor but our strike force was Higdon, McNulty and Done.

It's also worth remembering how many people said we need to play 442 to get out of this league. I didn't agree with them but NA apparently does.

If you allow a manager to recruit a large number of players in one season, then sack him at the end of it, the likelihood is that you'll be exactly where we are now.

I'm getting a bit tired of this anxious 'Adkins should have done....' type of micro analysis I see every day on here. It's not like the bloke's an amateur or he hasn't done this before. I don't imagine for one minute that he doesn't want to strengthen further but if the board won't get the deals over the line, or are insisting we move people on before they do, it isn't his fault and there's fuck all he can do about it.

One person is ultimately responsible for us bein relegated by his foolish actions and that same person is responsible for us being stuck in this league. It is not Nigel Adkins.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

McGahey, McFadzean, Cuvelier, Dimaio, Diego.

Is it unrealistic to expect that more than 2 outgoing loans of Higdon and DCL could and would have been achieved if sufficient effort had been put in to loaning the above players out for example?

Would we have seen at least 1 or more of these players out on loan if that effort had been put in? I'm quite confident in almost guarenteeing a yes on that one, and I don't believe you're not either to be honest alco.

To be fair it is much less of an issue than the Murphy money, I agree there but just as you say we don't know how much effort they've put in, we also have no idea what wages they're all on. You could argue it as you have, or you could take a different view as you can most things:

McFadzean - Probably on very little but no clue either way, same with Dimaio. Each take up a spot another player could contribute more in though.

McGahey - Talked up as the next big thing when he signed, Clough was in charge and we know how wreckless he was with dishing out money. A regrettably large wage?

Diego - Same as above, I would imagine him and his agent won't have stood for an easy penny deal. Arguably on a very large amount for his age.

Reckless spender Clough only signed one out of those five players and he managed to secure loan deals for the other four.
Maybe he deserves plaudits for the amount of effort he put in to getting young, fringe players out on gaining experience?
He certainly seems to be have been better in that aspect than Adkins has at present.

 

[BushBlade]

Reckless spender Clough only signed one out of those five players and he managed to secure loan deals for the other four.
Maybe he deserves plaudits for the amount of effort he put in to getting young, fringe players out on gaining experience?
He certainly seems to be have been better in that aspect than Adkins has at present.

Perhaps NA thinks players need to go on loan to clubs that will play them regularly and have decent coaches, to ensure the players are developing properly.

I'm not sure which of our players have benefited from going out on loan last season.

And I doubt any of those loans had any kind of significant financial advantage.

 

[awblade]

It is definitely an improvement than last season, but we need to be better to go up.

Whatever happens this season, Adkins should be given a clean slate over the summer and allowed to pay off anyone's contract that he feels isn't up to the job and can't sell on. We have too many very average/very injury prone players.

The way the league looks so far this season, we could easily go up top or limp into the playoffs, again

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Reckless spender Clough only signed one out of those five players and he managed to secure loan deals for the other four.
Maybe he deserves plaudits for the amount of effort he put in to getting young, fringe players out on gaining experience?
He certainly seems to be have been better in that aspect than Adkins has at present.

Adkins is doing a good job and trying to stamp his mark , and football philosophy on to the club and team. In some ways the same as what previous managers , (Weir and Clough ) tried to do. One thing is certain , we do have to give Adkins time , and stick with him , as changing managers , players , just puts a club backwards or at a stand still , with no real progression . Weir , Clough and Adkins all seem to be managers , that want to play football the right way , but with differing tactics. ( not long ball or hoof whatever you call it )

It is interesing with Weir , who has a lot of pludits as a good coach ( same as Brian Kidd who was with Robson ) . What he will never be IMO , is a good manager , ( worked well at Brentford and Rangers as coach ) , as he appears to lack man management skills . I do wonder , if we missed a trick , and didnt think about bringing someone to help him , with the day to day management , like Walter Smith or the like.

Would we be any further forward , who knows , and its all hindsight , but are we any better off . Ok some say Weir would have got us relegated , but with a older head at his side , and helping to sort out the day to day stuff , he and we , may have cracked it.

Would we be cracking it with Clough , again its in the past . We are were we are , but no real further forward.

One thing for sure , we would be a lot financially better off , than having to pay managers and there backroom staff contracts off , as with Weir and Clough, which must have cost us a fortune .

Weir and Clough may well have been reckless , but not as reckless as the board , with not thinking things through and only now perhaps seeing the consequences .

Adkins will have a better side next year , whether we are in league 1 or the championship . We just have to give the bloke some slack , leaway and most of all ,time.

UTB

 

[Newbury Blade]

I just think the bottom line is we need to get out of this league in order for the club to move forward, i honestly think it could be the last season for many season ticket holders they won't keep believing in all the hype over a promotion push for another season and the only way to get out is spend on players, look at BC, Wolves, Charlton etc, Charlton especially were nearly a brand new team.

How was he supposed to create a brand new team straight away with the number of people we have on contracts that don't run out until at least the end of the season?

 

[BushBlade]

How was he supposed to create a brand new team straight away with the number of people we have on contracts that don't run out until at least the end of the season?

Just sign a bunch of new players and ignore the useless twats until they fuck off.

Which is exactly what Wolves did.

And before anyone says 'parachute payments wah wah' they had a number of players on PL contracts who were training with the kids, like O'Hara so that must have eaten into the extra money considerably. Their owner bit the bullet while ours sucked his thumb.

 

[BushBlade]

Adkins is doing a good job and trying to stamp his mark , and football philosophy on to the club and team. In some ways the same as what previous managers , (Weir and Clough ) tried to do. One thing is certain , we do have to give Adkins time , and stick with him , as changing managers , players , just puts a club backwards or at a stand still , with no real progression . Weir , Clough and Adkins all seem to be managers , that want to play football the right way , but with differing tactics. ( not long ball or hoof whatever you call it )

It is interesing with Weir , who has a lot of pludits as a good coach ( same as Brian Kidd who was with Robson ) . What he will never be IMO , is a good manager , ( worked well at Brentford and Rangers as coach ) , as he appears to lack man management skills . I do wonder , if we missed a trick , and didnt think about bringing someone to help him , with the day to day management , like Walter Smith or the like.

Would we be any further forward , who knows , and its all hindsight , but are we any better off . Ok some say Weir would have got us relegated , but with a older head at his side , and helping to sort out the day to day stuff , he and we , may have cracked it.

Would we be cracking it with Clough , again its in the past . We are were we are , but no real further forward.

One thing for sure , we would be a lot financially better off , than having to pay managers and there backroom staff contracts off , as with Weir and Clough, which must have cost us a fortune .

Weir and Clough may well have been reckless , but not as reckless as the board , with not thinking things through and only now perhaps seeing the consequences .

Adkins will have a better side next year , whether we are in league 1 or the championship . We just have to give the bloke some slack , leaway and most of all ,time.

UTB

I'm not sure we could have imposed a 'wise head' on Weir. It's his choice who he works with. He SHOULD have been sensible to make that choice himself but instead chose Carsley. He proved himself to be arrogant and naive.
I doubt he'll ever be more than a good coach because he hasn't got the character to be a manager.

 

[blade too long]

another season 2013 14 table after 11 games
http://www.prestonnorthend-mad.co.uk/snapshot_tables/2013_2014/12/oct/preston_north_end/index.shtml
once again 2 clubs clear at the top who didnt figure in promotion come May
and Brentford in 12th place who finally went up were miles off the pace
on 13 points 15 behind an automatic spot
rotherham got up via the play offs

theres a case for saying being top after 10 means youve no chance

 

[coaxingstar71]

I'm not sure Adkins could just "sign a load of new players and ignore the useless twats until they fuck off" - he's not playing championship manager, he'll need to work within a wage budget and that will mean a certain size squad.

I honestly think it's still too early to say how the season will go. What I'm pleased about is that we look like scoring most of the time whereas under Clough I sometimes felt we could have played for a whole week and still not scored. It's certainly more entertaining, just very inconsistent at the moment. Hopefully, we'll click soon and put in a good run of performances and results to get us up right up there. I really don't see any point in looking at averages, where we were last year, what everyone was/is doing. There are too many cases of sides being at the top and then throwing it away and conversely those who make a late charge.

I think the interesting point will be where we are at Christmas, hopefully top obviously would be nice but at least right in there such as a couple of points away, and then see what happens when Brayford and some of the others start coming back. What we don't want is to be talking about the play-offs by January/February like last season.

 

[davidpinder]

How was he supposed to create a brand new team straight away with the number of people we have on contracts that don't run out until at least the end of the season?

I didn't mean a brand new team for us I was making the point about teams bringing in many players to go for promotion, but we need 2 or 3 more and seem reluctant to get them, get rid of some like we have Higdon.

 

[BushBlade]

I'm not sure Adkins could just "sign a load of new players and ignore the useless twats until they fuck off" - he's not playing championship manager, he'll need to work within a wage budget and that will mean a certain size squad.

I honestly think it's still too early to say how the season will go. What I'm pleased about is that we look like scoring most of the time whereas under Clough I sometimes felt we could have played for a whole week and still not scored. It's certainly more entertaining, just very inconsistent at the moment. Hopefully, we'll click soon and put in a good run of performances and results to get us up right up there. I really don't see any point in looking at averages, where we were last year, what everyone was/is doing. There are too many cases of sides being at the top and then throwing it away and conversely those who make a late charge.

I think the interesting point will be where we are at Christmas, hopefully top obviously would be nice but at least right in there such as a couple of points away, and then see what happens when Brayford and some of the others start coming back. What we don't want is to be talking about the play-offs by January/February like last season.

You make some good points but please do not ever say 'it's not football manager' like I'm some 15 year old.

I'm making a perfectly valid point backed up with a real life example; depite having an expensive squad Wolves allowed Jackett to sign the players he needed to get promoted.

I'm also aware of budget constraints but what I find hard to stomach is the implication that the Murphy money would be used to fund new signings made by Jim (and I know that isn't exactly what he said but it was worded to give that impression and if what he really meant was it would go towards our existing wage bill, then they're weasel words) and the impression given by the club that the Prince was going to make a significant investment.

If we've spent close to what the owners are prepared to spend, fair enough, just admit it so the supporters understand the constraints Adkins is under and cut him slack accordingly.
But if we've already blown most of the investment then either it's nowhere near as much as we expected or there is something seriously wrong with this club.

 

[coaxingstar71]

You make some good points but please do not ever say 'it's not football manager' like I'm some 15 year old.

I'm making a perfectly valid point backed up with a real life example; depite having an expensive squad Wolves allowed Jackett to sign the players he needed to get promoted.

I'm also aware of budget constraints but what I find hard to stomach is the implication that the Murphy money would be used to fund new signings made by Jim (and I know that isn't exactly what he said but it was worded to give that impression and if what he really meant was it would go towards our existing wage bill, then they're weasel words) and the impression given by the club that the Prince was going to make a significant investment.

If we've spent close to what the owners are prepared to spend, fair enough, just admit it so the supporters understand the constraints Adkins is under and cut him slack accordingly.
But if we've already blown most of the investment then either it's nowhere near as much as we expected or there is something seriously wrong with this club.

And knowing our club only too well, it could be any of those scenarios you mention.

Sorry, but your comment sounds flippant "ignore the useless twats until they fuck off" - perhaps we are starting to see it happen now that Higdon has gone on loan. I just think, despite what Jackett was allowed to do at Wolves, that it's unrealistic given the current contract situation at the club to expect that.

Now we the fans don't know the real reasons why the "Murphy Money" hasn't been used, is it:-
- the money isn't actually available and the board are lying
- the money is available and Adkins just hasn't found the right man/come to an agreement with player/club (any number of reasons why we haven't signed players other than monetary ones)
- the money is available but he's got to trim the wage bill first
- the money is available but we've got to reduce the squad numbers first

I have no more idea than anybody else, but I also won't jump to any conclusions until I know the facts. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out to be any of the above.

 

[BushBlade]

And knowing our club only too well, it could be any of those scenarios you mention.

Sorry, but your comment sounds flippant "ignore the useless twats until they fuck off" - perhaps we are starting to see it happen now that Higdon has gone on loan. I just think, despite what Jackett was allowed to do at Wolves, that it's unrealistic given the current contract situation at the club to expect that.

Now we the fans don't know the real reasons why the "Murphy Money" hasn't been used, is it:-
- the money isn't actually available and the board are lying
- the money is available and Adkins just hasn't found the right man/come to an agreement with player/club (any number of reasons why we haven't signed players other than monetary ones)
- the money is available but he's got to trim the wage bill first
- the money is available but we've got to reduce the squad numbers first

I have no more idea than anybody else, but I also won't jump to any conclusions until I know the facts. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out to be any of the above.

The comment was a flippant way of making a serious point. You're right though that we may well make a couple of major signings next week and things will look a lot better. I have a lot of faith in Adkins but it seems that as soon as he's taken a step forward and signed Sharp, Sammon and Woolford he has to take one back and sell Murphy.

I don't think we even need that many players. I'd settle just for a good midfielder. I'd be happy with a midfielder and a central defender. If we got a winger too I'd be ecstatic.
And take away the kids, I don't think we've got that much deadwood tbh. Now Wallace has shown he can play LB, once Bob's back we could let McEv go and if we do bring in a CH, we could get rid of Collins. Other than that, with Higgo gone I can't think of any other senior players we need to shift out.

It all seems do-able, which is why it's frustrating.

 

[blade67]

another season 2013 14 table after 11 games
http://www.prestonnorthend-mad.co.uk/snapshot_tables/2013_2014/12/oct/preston_north_end/index.shtml
once again 2 clubs clear at the top who didnt figure in promotion come May
and Brentford in 12th place who finally went up were miles off the pace
on 13 points 15 behind an automatic spot
rotherham got up via the play offs

theres a case for saying being top after 10 means youve no chance

hold on a second

5 of the top six finished in the top 6
Bradford went from top 6 to mid table and Coventry were the only side to finish miles lower than where position at this stage
Brentford did make the big move but I think this shows that whilst it is possible, not many sides really go on a charge in any one season.

We may well finish top and win it by miles but something needs to change to make that happen

1 leyton orient finished 3rd
2 peterboror finished 6th
3 wolves finished top
4 preston finished 5th
5 rotherham finished 4th
6 bradford finished 11th
7 swindon finished 8th
8 coventry finished 18th
9 mk finished 10th
10 crawley finished 14th

 

[zablade]

We are nailed on for yet another attempt at the play offs.

 

[BushBlade]

We are nailed on for yet another attempt at the play offs.

You never know. We might win them this time.

 

[SwissBlade]

You never know. We might win them this time.

We won't.

 

[BushBlade]

We won't.

No but I'll still go if we get to Wembley. I've only missed one Wembley failure, the pig-final.

 

[coaxingstar71]

The comment was a flippant way of making a serious point. You're right though that we may well make a couple of major signings next week and things will look a lot better. I have a lot of faith in Adkins but it seems that as soon as he's taken a step forward and signed Sharp, Sammon and Woolford he has to take one back and sell Murphy.

I don't think we even need that many players. I'd settle just for a good midfielder. I'd be happy with a midfielder and a central defender. If we got a winger too I'd be ecstatic.
And take away the kids, I don't think we've got that much deadwood tbh. Now Wallace has shown he can play LB, once Bob's back we could let McEv go and if we do bring in a CH, we could get rid of Collins. Other than that, with Higgo gone I can't think of any other senior players we need to shift out.

It all seems do-able, which is why it's frustrating.

Major signings - it's doubtful though isn't it? I just wish the board and the manager would stop the propaganda and platitudes and just tell the fans straight, either:-
1. We sold Murphy and we're using the money to balance the books and the manager will have to wheel and deal with what he's got.
2. The money is available to the manager and he's actively working on looking at various targets - and we sign player(s).
I think most of the fans could deal with that, but instead we just get all this conjecture.

Still, I suppose it gives all the know-nowts something to post their moans about.

 

[blade too long]

hold on a second

5 of the top six finished in the top 6
Bradford went from top 6 to mid table and Coventry were the only side to finish miles lower than where position at this stage
Brentford did make the big move but I think this shows that whilst it is possible, not many sides really go on a charge in any one season.

We may well finish top and win it by miles but something needs to change to make that happen

1 leyton orient finished 3rd
2 peterboror finished 6th
3 wolves finished top
4 preston finished 5th
5 rotherham finished 4th
6 bradford finished 11th
7 swindon finished 8th
8 coventry finished 18th
9 mk finished 10th
10 crawley finished 14th

only going up counts remember your rules

you slag off the blades for unltimate failure
dont start praising other nearly men
you still havent quantified bourenemouths rise

why have you not mentioned them at all
and who were second
youve got wolves as top but then the other top 6 not in the top 6
bradford finished 11th you even put that

or was this a season when top and second didnt go up