Some Barnsley Comparisons.

[Woodwardfan]

Average age of players who took the field last Saturday: United 27 years Barnsley 24 years.

From the club websites 'Player Stats' the following numbers paint a picture. They are for league and cup games and do not differentiate between starts and sub appearances. The shots column is basically those on target or hittiing the woodwork:

For the 5 midfield players with the most appearances:

Barnsley : Hourihane, Watkins, Hammill, Scowen, Isgrove 188 apps 30 goals 32 assists 78 shots
United: Coutts, Hammond, Woolford, Done, Flynn, 160 apps 12 goals 10 assists 43 shots
If I add Basham who is listed as a defender: 207 apps 15 goals 12 assists 50 shots

Of course Basham has played a few in defence but so has Scowen and Done for example has played a few up front, so it evens out.

Each club top striker has 20 goals and 6 Assists, Sharp in 48 games ( 50 shots) and Winnall 52 games (46 shots).
Barnsley don't have an Adams up front who has 12 goals and 3 assists from 39 games but recently Fletcher has played 22 games with 5 goals and 2 Assists.
Sammon has 6 goals 1 Assist in 33 games.

Barnsley have two defenders who score: Mawson 7 in 54 and Nyatanga 3 in 29.
We have Edgar 2 in 36 and Collins 4 in 21.

In the league we have both played 44, Barnsley 64 goals for and 51 against, United 63 for and 54 against; points difference 4.

I realise that the teams have played different systems over the season and our two up front alters the dynamics of the midfield, but I think the stats show exactly where our main weakness is in relation to Barnsley and their slightly better season, though we should remember that Barnsley were bottom when we played them in November when something really did "click" and they have performed magnificently since.

Coutts, Hammond and Woolford simply do not do much in the final third of the field - hardly ever. Only Isgrove in Barnsley's midfield spoils their stats. Hourihane has 10 goals and 16 assists in 49 games, Hammill 7 and 6 in 28 games. Coutts 0 and 3 in 34, Hammond 2 and 1 in 33. Woolford 1 and 2 in 32 but has been sub a lot.

Baxter 7 and 5 in 28 with 10 shots.

Our wage budget will be way more than the Tykes.

 

[Kenilworth]

Interesting comparison WWF

Yet, that midfield is likely to be the "rock" our next season is to be based on

If that's the case then we can all look forward to more of the same, which if combined with a weaker back 4/3 (assuming Baptiste isn't added) is what a lot of us expect and dread.

Talk about the fucking wilderness

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

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Barnsley hand

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

Any more?

 

[Revolution]

Another comparison is instructive: compare this season's goals output from midfield with our output the last time we were promoted:

2015-16

Baxter 4
Basham 3
Flynn 2
Hammond 2
Woolford 1

Total: 12 goals

2005-6

Ifill 9
Jagielka 6 (8 total - 2 scored from centre half)
Quinn 4
Tonge 3
Armstrong 2
Monty 1

Total: 25 goals

The renewal of Flynn's deal, the signing of Hammond, and perseverance with Coutts is not going to cut it.

Funny - you know what the basic difference between the two squads' goal outputs is? Jamie Murphy's output last year. Nice one Kevin.

 

[Finnieston]

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View attachment 17113
Barnsley hand
View attachment 17115

Then we should sign Goalkeepers from Barnsley?

 

[Treeton Blade]

No wonder their players can kick the ball further than ours

 

[Jonboy60]

No wonder their players can kick the ball further than ours

Fukien hell, how many little piggies went to market when they were a nipper.

 

[Woodwardfan]

We supplement the lack of creativity and g

Another comparison is instructive: compare this season's goals output from midfield with our output the last time we were promoted:

2015-16

Baxter 4
Basham 3
Flynn 2
Hammond 2
Woolford 1

Total: 12 goals

2005-6

Ifill 9
Jagielka 6 (8 total - 2 scored from centre half)
Quinn 4
Tonge 3
Armstrong 2
Monty 1

Total: 25 goals

The renewal of Flynn's deal, the signing of Hammond, and perseverance with Coutts is not going to cut it.

Funny - you know what the basic difference between the two squads' goal outputs is? Jamie Murphy's output last year. Nice one Kevin.

Not exactly Revolution. Some interesting ones though.

Player/ Goals/ Starts.

Murphy 10/42
Baxter 8/29
McNulty 12/18
Done 6/9
Davies4/16
Ryce 7/24
Higdon 5/12
Flynn 3/23
Basham 0/37
Coutts 0/11

 

[Revolution]

We supplement the lack of creativity and g



Not exactly Revolution. Some interesting ones though.

Player/ Goals/ Starts.

Murphy 10/42
Baxter 8/29
McNulty 12/18
Done 6/9
Davies4/16
Ryce 7/24
Higdon 5/12
Flynn 3/23
Basham 0/37
Coutts 0/11

Your numbers aren't accurate. Murphy scored 11 league goals, Baxter 10 last season, for example. Try soccerbase - far more accurate than the club site.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Your numbers aren't accurate. Murphy scored 11 league goals, Baxter 10 last season, for example. Try soccerbase - far more accurate than the club site.

Thanks Rev. I presume the stats for Flynn, Coutts and Basham are about right though and no doubt Hammond wasn't piling up the goals.

It's hard to believe we have been so unproductive from midfield. I don't even think our midfield protects the Back 3 very well, Barnsley for example stretched us at times even with their 4-4-2, enough for the defenders to have to play very well anyway.

 

[Revolution]

Thanks Rev. I presume the stats for Flynn, Coutts and Basham are about right though and no doubt Hammond wasn't piling up the goals.

It's hard to believe we have been so unproductive from midfield. I don't even think our midfield protects the Back 3 very well, Barnsley for example stretched us at times even with their 4-4-2, enough for the defenders to have to play very well anyway.

Oh, they are a massive problem and a real test for Adkins close season.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Average age of players who took the field last Saturday: United 27 years Barnsley 24 years.

From the club websites 'Player Stats' the following numbers paint a picture. They are for league and cup games and do not differentiate between starts and sub appearances. The shots column is basically those on target or hittiing the woodwork:

For the 5 midfield players with the most appearances:

Barnsley : Hourihane, Watkins, Hammill, Scowen, Isgrove 188 apps 30 goals 32 assists 78 shots
United: Coutts, Hammond, Woolford, Done, Flynn, 160 apps 12 goals 10 assists 43 shots
If I add Basham who is listed as a defender: 207 apps 15 goals 12 assists 50 shots

Of course Basham has played a few in defence but so has Scowen and Done for example has played a few up front, so it evens out.

Each club top striker has 20 goals and 6 Assists, Sharp in 48 games ( 50 shots) and Winnall 52 games (46 shots).
Barnsley don't have an Adams up front who has 12 goals and 3 assists from 39 games but recently Fletcher has played 22 games with 5 goals and 2 Assists.
Sammon has 6 goals 1 Assist in 33 games.

Barnsley have two defenders who score: Mawson 7 in 54 and Nyatanga 3 in 29.
We have Edgar 2 in 36 and Collins 4 in 21.

In the league we have both played 44, Barnsley 64 goals for and 51 against, United 63 for and 54 against; points difference 4.

I realise that the teams have played different systems over the season and our two up front alters the dynamics of the midfield, but I think the stats show exactly where our main weakness is in relation to Barnsley and their slightly better season, though we should remember that Barnsley were bottom when we played them in November when something really did "click" and they have performed magnificently since.

Coutts, Hammond and Woolford simply do not do much in the final third of the field - hardly ever. Only Isgrove in Barnsley's midfield spoils their stats. Hourihane has 10 goals and 16 assists in 49 games, Hammill 7 and 6 in 28 games. Coutts 0 and 3 in 34, Hammond 2 and 1 in 33. Woolford 1 and 2 in 32 but has been sub a lot.

Baxter 7 and 5 in 28 with 10 shots.

Our wage budget will be way more than the Tykes.

It certainly shows that we don’t have enough end product or attacking threat coming from the midfield. Hammond is purely defensive, Coutts does get us moving but often lacks cutting edge in the final third. The 2 up top does alter the dynamic as mentioned though. Under Clough, Baxter, Holt and Murphy chipped in from midfield as we had 1 up top but he didn’t have a centre half chipping in at set pieces.


Hopefully next season Adams will get somewhere near the 20 Billy has this season. I also hope we can add a CM and a LM/ LWB who offers us a little more than what we have.


The average age is also relevant but that could also have been a contributory factor in an atrocious run earlier that had them looking like relegation candidates. Sometimes, the blend comes together nicely and things click like they did for Clough in spring 2014.


Things have improved for us since bringing Baptiste in as he suits the shape of the current team better than Collins or even Brayford it seems. We still have deficiencies but if we look at the games where he’s started it looks like this:-


Played 8

Won 4

Drawn 3

Lost 1

Scored 12

Conceded 4

Clean sheets 5

Points per game 1.875.


Still not quite good enough to ensure automatic promotion but over a season that would be 86 points. Shame we’ll struggle to land him in the summer but I think the 352 with 7 or 8 of the current starting 11 plus 3 quality additions would give us a real chance.

 

[Woodwardfan]

It certainly shows that we don’t have enough end product or attacking threat coming from the midfield. Hammond is purely defensive, Coutts does get us moving but often lacks cutting edge in the final third. The 2 up top does alter the dynamic as mentioned though. Under Clough, Baxter, Holt and Murphy chipped in from midfield as we had 1 up top but he didn’t have a centre half chipping in at set pieces.


Hopefully next season Adams will get somewhere near the 20 Billy has this season. I also hope we can add a CM and a LM/ LWB who offers us a little more than what we have.


The average age is also relevant but that could also have been a contributory factor in an atrocious run earlier that had them looking like relegation candidates. Sometimes, the blend comes together nicely and things click like they did for Clough in spring 2014.


Things have improved for us since bringing Baptiste in as he suits the shape of the current team better than Collins or even Brayford it seems. We still have deficiencies but if we look at the games where he’s started it looks like this:-


Played 8

Won 4

Drawn 3

Lost 1

Scored 12

Conceded 4

Clean sheets 5

Points per game 1.875.


Still not quite good enough to ensure automatic promotion but over a season that would be 86 points. Shame we’ll struggle to land him in the summer but I think the 352 with 7 or 8 of the current starting 11 plus 3 quality additions would give us a real chance.

If we had signed 3/4 quality additions last summer we would have walked all over this league. Let's hope Boro go up and nobody's been watching Baptiste, though he is not the only fish in the sea by any means. Our biggest single need is a Hourihane IMO, second a Roberts, third a Hammill, though they are all hard to find. Aidy White's been exceptional for Barnsley as well when fit.

Sharp, Adams, Done, Lewin/ McNulty is a good strike-force given good service. We need a squad of around 23 but Reed and Whiteman should feature strongly next season a swill Lewin and will be like new signings.

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

No wonder their players can kick the ball further than ours

David Mellor's just bought a house in Monk Bretton.

 

[Booker4]

Average age of players who took the field last Saturday: United 27 years Barnsley 24 years.

From the club websites 'Player Stats' the following numbers paint a picture. They are for league and cup games and do not differentiate between starts and sub appearances. The shots column is basically those on target or hittiing the woodwork:

For the 5 midfield players with the most appearances:

Barnsley : Hourihane, Watkins, Hammill, Scowen, Isgrove 188 apps 30 goals 32 assists 78 shots
United: Coutts, Hammond, Woolford, Done, Flynn, 160 apps 12 goals 10 assists 43 shots
If I add Basham who is listed as a defender: 207 apps 15 goals 12 assists 50 shots

Of course Basham has played a few in defence but so has Scowen and Done for example has played a few up front, so it evens out.

Each club top striker has 20 goals and 6 Assists, Sharp in 48 games ( 50 shots) and Winnall 52 games (46 shots).
Barnsley don't have an Adams up front who has 12 goals and 3 assists from 39 games but recently Fletcher has played 22 games with 5 goals and 2 Assists.
Sammon has 6 goals 1 Assist in 33 games.

Barnsley have two defenders who score: Mawson 7 in 54 and Nyatanga 3 in 29.
We have Edgar 2 in 36 and Collins 4 in 21.

In the league we have both played 44, Barnsley 64 goals for and 51 against, United 63 for and 54 against; points difference 4.

I realise that the teams have played different systems over the season and our two up front alters the dynamics of the midfield, but I think the stats show exactly where our main weakness is in relation to Barnsley and their slightly better season, though we should remember that Barnsley were bottom when we played them in November when something really did "click" and they have performed magnificently since.

Coutts, Hammond and Woolford simply do not do much in the final third of the field - hardly ever. Only Isgrove in Barnsley's midfield spoils their stats. Hourihane has 10 goals and 16 assists in 49 games, Hammill 7 and 6 in 28 games. Coutts 0 and 3 in 34, Hammond 2 and 1 in 33. Woolford 1 and 2 in 32 but has been sub a lot.

Baxter 7 and 5 in 28 with 10 shots.

Our wage budget will be way more than the Tykes.

Some good points mate and Barnsley clearly have some creative players that we don't have. To be fair to Adkins, he inherited this squad and then lost our best player Murphy. I'm convinced that we would have been competing, at the very least, for play offs. Baring in mind Murphys assists and goals last season. Adkins got the Woolford signing wrong and Sammon. Next season though if we can upgrade on Done and Flynn and add a decent centre half I reckon we'll be in the top two. I don't think we realised just how saddled Adkins would be with this squad in terms of the budget already taken. Just on Hammond if he is surrounded by more creative options than Flynn and Done I reckon we will see Hammond more comfortable in the team.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Some good points mate and Barnsley clearly have some creative players that we don't have. To be fair to Adkins, he inherited this squad and then lost our best player Murphy. I'm convinced that we would have been competing, at the very least, for play offs. Baring in mind Murphys assists and goals last season. Adkins got the Woolford signing wrong and Sammon. Next season though if we can upgrade on Done and Flynn and add a decent centre half I reckon we'll be in the top two. I don't think we realised just how saddled Adkins would be with this squad in terms of the budget already taken. Just on Hammond if he is surrounded by more creative options than Flynn and Done I reckon we will see Hammond more comfortable in the team.

Yes that may be true about Hammond but why do we need to bother with him. We have Whiteman and could sign so many players so many years younger who would have hundreds of games to play in future years.

WHF makes a point that Hammond does loads of good off the pitch. We have a manager and a whole team of coaches who get paid hundreds of thousands of pounds every year and who should be earning that money. If we are short of role models in the changing room then this summer is an opportunity to sign some. Players do not have to be 34 years old to be leaders and surely we will be signing at least 6 new players this summer.

 

[Booker4]

Yes that may be true about Hammond but why do we need to bother with him. We have Whiteman and could sign so many players so many years younger who would have hundreds of games to play in future years.

WHF makes a point that Hammond does loads of good off the pitch. We have a manager and a whole team of coaches who get paid hundreds of thousands of pounds every year and who should be earning that money. If we are short of role models in the changing room then this summer is an opportunity to sign some. Players do not have to be 34 years old to be leaders and surely we will be signing at least 6 new players this summer.

I don't personally feel we have to sign Hammond, although there are probably no Blades fans who would feel that! But I do think that asking a youngster like Whiteman to fill the role of Hammond and to play week in, week out is asking a lot and my view would is if we sign Hammond I would like to see Hammond phased out as the season progresses to be replaced by a younger option. If Hammond wants big wages I'd be saying no and sign a younger replacement or as you say give a youngster a chance and maybe see who is available in the loan market.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I don't personally feel we have to sign Hammond, although there are probably no Blades fans who would feel that! But I do think that asking a youngster like Whiteman to fill the role of Hammond and to play week in, week out is asking a lot and my view would is if we sign Hammond I would like to see Hammond phased out as the season progresses to be replaced by a younger option. If Hammond wants big wages I'd be saying no and sign a younger replacement or as you say give a youngster a chance and maybe see who is available in the loan market.

We could afford to play Coutts if Hammond wasn't there and he could help the youngsters through. However, like you I would expect Whiteman to develop during the season and a safer, surer option would be wise to start the season. We need cover for all positions so there is loads of room for the Whitemans, Reeds and Lewins to establish themselves as and when they earn the right. In my view only this past month has Adams earned the right to start next season as one of the first choice strikers.

 

[mattbianco1]

In the league we have both played 44, Barnsley 64 goals for and 51 against, United 63 for and 54 against; points difference 4.

To put a positive spin on it then - If we were to sign goalscoring midfielders and defenders we would walk the league as we have scored just the 1 goal less, despite scoring 22 goals less from Defenders and Midfielders.

 

[Woodwardfan]

To put a positive spin on it then - If we were to sign goalscoring midfielders and defenders we would walk the league as we have scored just the 1 goal less, despite scoring 22 goals less from Defenders and Midfielders.

Barnsley were bottom when they played us in November and have made up a lot of ground since, but essentially yes. I have said all season that midfield creativity and energy box to box was our main problem area, even before Hammond arrived and when he did, he compounded the problems.

 

[longinthe toothblade]

The renewal of Flynn's deal, the signing of Hammond, and perseverance with Coutts is not going to cut it.

Agree

 

[Pedro Verde]

Its OK comparing us to Barnsley
The thing is to win promotion weve got to be better than them by quite a distance

 

[Snipersdream13]

Thanks Rev. I presume the stats for Flynn, Coutts and Basham are about right though and no doubt Hammond wasn't piling up the goals.

It's hard to believe we have been so unproductive from midfield. I don't even think our midfield protects the Back 3 very well, Barnsley for example stretched us at times even with their 4-4-2, enough for the defenders to have to play very well anyway.

No way flynn has started 23 games. he has come off the bench a fair few times if I remember and he has been injured most of the season?

 

[Woodwardfan]

No way flynn has started 23 games. he has come off the bench a fair few times if I remember and he has been injured most of the season?

Those stats were for 2014/5. re Murphy etc,

 

[Woodwardfan]

Spare a thought for Barnsley fans. Just had a message from my pal and it reads just like one of our season end scripts:

" we're at home against an already relegated team who's manager has been sacked, they've let over 50 goals in away from home this season, used all three subs, goalie injured and replaced by an outfield player and down to 10 men, 7 minutes and 43 seconds injury time and the opposition not seriously thinking about an equaliser and pow!!"

They're relying on us and Millwall next weekend and maybe keeping the score down at Wigan as they've a two goal advantage on Scunny. Looks like they'll lose out to me. If it was us, we'd lose 4-0 at Wigan ( and they might) and Scunny would lose 1-0 in their game ( and they might!!).