The Clough Factor

[1danewhitehouse]

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so which clubs have out spent us
Id agree Wigan might have , but they sold a hell of a lot in the first place
just wondered who else has "spent big "
have walsall out spent us for instance, they are in top 6

Depends what you mean by outspent.

If we say overall wage bill and expenditure then yes we'll be amongst the highest due to the massive squad NA inherited.

If we say net spend then I'd say we'll be nowhere near the highers as it's likely we've had a negative net spend both in terms of transfer fees and wages when you look at the ins and outs.

Many clubs have been able to bring in more players than us, that's for sure.

 

[PeteBlade]

P

s

so which clubs have out spent us
Id agree Wigan might have , but they sold a hell of a lot in the first place
just wondered who else has "spent big "
have walsall out spent us for instance, they are in top 6

No, before you ask more inane questions, let's tackle that bullshit website you were trying to push as "proof" that we were the leagues top spenders.

You now think that Wigan outspent us, so we're agreement that the link you posted was bollocks?

 

[Harry's Game]

The reason we have little or no budget for the summer relates directly back to the Clough / Brannigan splurge in January 2015, when everyone was of the opinion the two most important positions required were Centre Back and big Mobile Centre forward, instead we signed two full backs, a small striker recently converted from fullback, and a another half crippled central midfielder, and blew approaching £3m on doing it.

That resulted in Maceverly and Alcock at Centre back for the playoffs.

Unforgivable and unforgettable

 

[PeteBlade]

The ever so small difference between your post and mine being that one's in the here and now, the other has long gone. This season goes some way to showing what can happen when you rely on well bygone glories.

In your opinion. Formulated without watching football matches.

 

[blade too long]

P


No, before you ask more inane questions, let's tackle that bullshit website you were trying to push as "proof" that we were the leagues top spenders.

You now think that Wigan outspent us, so we're agreement that the link you posted was bollocks?

wigan also out sold us , they were assessing that too

 

[blade too long]

In your opinion. Formulated without watching football matches.

again utter garbager , so I dont get as often now , attended 3 seen around 20 others on tv via dodgy box
and not missed the first 15 minutes of every game drinking too much like some

 

[Tyler Durden]

In your opinion. Formulated without watching football matches.

If this thread alone has proved anything, there's a definite ratio between matches attended and bollocks spouted.

 

[Tyler Durden]

again utter garbager , so I dont get as often now , attended 3 seen around 20 others on tv via dodgy box
and not missed the first 15 minutes of every game drinking too much like some

Must be a very dodgy box.

 

[PeteBlade]

again utter garbager , so I dont get as often now , attended 3 seen around 20 others on tv via dodgy box
and not missed the first 15 minutes of every game drinking too much like some

I wasn't referring to you on this occasion.
But yes, people who attend football matches have a better idea of what goes on during football matches than those who don't.

A bit like earlier on in the season where you'd argue until you were blue in the face that we'd played well because the bbc stats said we'd had 18 shots on target, when I told you we'd not played very well.

 

[Barney]

In your opinion. Formulated without watching football matches.

There's nothing remotely "in my opinion" about looking at the league table to see that a manager has taken a team that finished 5th and taken it backwards several places. That's fact, not opinion.

 

[Tyler Durden]

There's nothing remotely "in my opinion" about looking at the league table to see that a manager has taken a team that finished 5th and taken it backwards several places. That's fact, not opinion.

No, that's just fucking obtuse. Ignoring all mitigating circumstances to further your bullshit agenda. You're full of shit and everybody knows it.

 

[PeteBlade]

There's nothing remotely "in my opinion" about looking at the league table to see that a manager has taken a team that finished 5th and taken it backwards several places. That's fact, not opinion.

What you posted, and what is completely your opinion and not fact as you make out is that "this season goes some way to showing what happens if you rely on well past glories".

You could equally argue that this season goes to show what happens when you employ a manager but don't give him the full tools needed to do the job.

 

[BushBlade]

The reason we have little or no budget for the summer relates directly back to the Clough / Brannigan splurge in January 2015, when everyone was of the opinion the two most important positions required were Centre Back and big Mobile Centre forward, instead we signed two full backs, a small striker recently converted from fullback, and a another half crippled central midfielder, and blew approaching £3m on doing it.

That resulted in Maceverly and Alcock at Centre back for the playoffs.

Unforgivable and unforgettable

We also signed a goal scoring midfielder and a target man on loan, which i assume cost us a few quid. I always had the feeling Clough wanted Davies over Done but didn't think he could get Davies, so got Done and then Davies became available so he got him as well. I think Done was his fourth or fifth choice.

I think he got Holt because he'd had enough of Scougall and the Scottish midget drinking society he seems to belong to.

 

[Barney]

No, that's just fucking obtuse. Ignoring all mitigating circumstances to further your bullshit agenda. You're full of shit and everybody knows it.

"Mitigating circumstances"? What, astronomical wages left right and centre and 500k for a striker? You hated Clough, and are now ferociously supporting Adkins so as not to admit you were wrong in wanting Clough sacked. Clough finished several places higher, and under the same board. But let's ignore that because it doesn't brighten up your argument.

 

[PeteBlade]

"Mitigating circumstances"? What, astronomical wages left right and centre and 500k for a striker? You hated Clough, and are now ferociously supporting Adkins so as not to admit you were wrong in wanting Clough sacked. Clough finished several places higher, and under the same board. But let's ignore that because it doesn't brighten up your argument.

And let's ignore the glaring differences in recruitment policies for both tenures because it doesn't brighten up yours.

 

[Barney]

And let's ignore the glaring differences in recruitment policies for both tenures because it doesn't brighten up yours.

Did you think 3 loans and 2 permanent signings would have been enough for promotion this pre-season?

Simple question if you would.

 

[Tyler Durden]

"Mitigating circumstances"? What, astronomical wages left right and centre and 500k for a striker? You hated Clough, and are now ferociously supporting Adkins so as not to admit you were wrong in wanting Clough sacked. Clough finished several places higher, and under the same board. But let's ignore that because it doesn't brighten up your argument.

We've been here before with regards to wages. You conveniently ignored the wage bill spunked on almost 40 players, trying to argue that only the wages spent on Adkins players were the problem. You had no answer last time and no answers now.

You're so fucking transparent it's untrue.

 

[Barney]

We've been here before with regards to wages. You conveniently ignored the wage bill spunked on almost 40 players, trying to argue that only the wages spent on Adkins players were the problem. You had no answer last time and no answers now.

You're so fucking transparent it's untrue.

That wasn't my point in the argument but then I wouldn't have expected you to remember it.

 

[Tyler Durden]

That wasn't my point in the argument but then I wouldn't have expected you to remember it.

No, that's just another time-honoured tactic of yours. Get shown up on every point then try to make out that you were making another one.

 

[PeteBlade]

Did you think 3 loans and 2 permanent signings would have been enough for promotion this pre-season?

Simple question if you would.

It would depend on both who we lost and at what level we could replace.

 

[Barney]

No, that's just another time-honoured tactic of yours. Get shown up on every point then try to make out that you were making another one.

It isn't all about getting "shown up", dear. You transformed that into my point so you could argue with it easier, but in reality that wasn't my point at all.

 

[Barney]

It would depend on both who we lost and at what level we could replace.

Well, we lost one decent player in Murphy. We lost a few other players but they were largely shite.

Back to the question.

 

[PeteBlade]

Well, we lost one decent player in Murphy. We lost a few other players but they were largely shite.

Back to the question.

And the other equally important part of how we could replace?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Did you think 3 loans and 2 permanent signings would have been enough for promotion this pre-season?

Simple question if you would.

Not if you'd told me Murphy would be going. I'd think we'd need more but with loads of outgoing players as well.

I reckon we still need about 6-8 in and about 12 out.

 

[Barney]

And the other equally important part of how we could replace?

It's a hypothetical scenario, let's say we haven't had the season yet. We have just sold Murphy and got rid of the other players. Take the squad we had after that.

Do you think that 2 permanents and 3 loans should be enough for promotion?

 

[Davie Blade]

Being sold in the transfer window probably didn't help those stats but hey . . . . . . at least we're not the only club who can sell the top scorer in the window.

That was quick, both joint top scorers played on Saturday.

 

[Bladesway]

Not at all, the 'Myth' is actual a FACT
Picking one game to try make a point is so easily dismantled.
24 goals in 20 games is Cloughs record at Burton.
A ratio of goals per game that is only worsened by 5 clubs in the whole division.
Burton top scorer has 8 goals.

Ah but the point being made was Burton were falling apart. Based on 2 games, I went back a further 2 games and found a 4-0 away win. The point I was trying to make is you can make statistics say whatever you want.

Most normal observers would say Clough ultimately failed because he didn't achieve promotion but only those with an entrenched view would say he did a bad job.

 

[Grecian2000]

That was quick, both joint top scorers played on Saturday.

I only know this because he scored for QPR on Saturday and someone on the Sky goals program mentioned it was his first since his January move. It just reminded me of selling Blackman when he was top scorer and we were in the top couple but then fell away afterwards. Selling your top scorer is not good news.

 

[Bladesway]

Spoken like a true non-attender.

Ahh I like this, I go to games so my view is more important than yours. My stats matter more because I was there.

 

[Davie Blade]

Ah but the point being made was Burton were falling apart. Based on 2 games, I went back a further 2 games and found a 4-0 away win. The point I was trying to make is you can make statistics say whatever you want.

Most normal observers would say Clough ultimately failed because he didn't achieve promotion but only those with an entrenched view would say he did a bad job.

Indeed you made the point very eloquently in making the very point that statistic say whatever you want.
Like picking out the the best result under his tenure and ignoring the FACT that in the last 4 games they scored just 1 goal (a lucky 92 min)
When was the last time we did that?

The slide under Clough is well under way go back 1,4 or 20 games.
He has taken a side with 2.1 points a game inheritance to one now 1.6 and still falling.