Looking forward to the first game next season.

[Kenilworth]

Like it or not and none of us like the fact that if a Premier League club want to sign a League1 player and help him realise his ambition to play in the top tier and increase his salary to a multiple of 4 then the club has nowhere to go. Not until any club is established in the top half of the Premier League can it resist bids from the top clubs.A League 1 club holding out for £10m is unrealsitic. MKD only got £5m for the exceptional Deli Alli but managed to keep him for an extra half a season in which they got promoted. Deli Alli would not have tolerated MKD holding out for £10m which might have taken another year or more. What's he on now £50k a week or more? Seriously a sell-on clause can be a good outcome. Even Maguire is on £14k a week and he's not in the first team of a Championship club. Jordan Slew is at Chesterfield on a short term contract but he's had a few years at maybe £10k a week. Our intended full wage budget is probably less than £4m in total.

We've spent 5 years in League 1 with an approach of signing experience and as much 'quality' as our budget allowed. We started with some good players and the quality has dwindled seriously over the 5 years as the third tier lower income streams have taken their toll and we've been losing £1m a month at times.

Something has to change from the 'same ow'd' way of signing experienced non-achieving journeymen. We even failed with some expensive recruits so logic says cheaper choices will fare no better. Developing Academy players and young recruits from elsewhere ( like Barnsley are doing) will make it harder to succeed in the short term as there will be inconsistency but surely it's better to man your squad with players who are grateful for the opportunity to be here rather than disappointed things didn't turn out better elsewhere.

IMO it's not about the big stars we produce because they'll only be with us a short while anyway, it's about say 70% of our 24 man squad and there's no reason why we can't produce our own or prise them away from smaller clubs further down the food chain. There'll be a few stars in amongst those as well. For the past 5 years that 70% of the squad has been costing us an arm and a leg for absolutely no return in quality and sometimes even effort.

Save our money for the players we need to complement the youngsters. It's a better way forward.

I'd have been satisfied with a reply of, "Bollocks"

 

[Woodwardfan]

I'd have been satisfied with a reply of, "Bollocks"

Sorry what was the point you made initially? Hey it was a great point and off I went on my own trip. Bollocks!!!

 

[finlaytheblade]

Sorry what was the point you made initially? Hey it was a great point and off I went on my own trip. Bollocks!!!

Wasting your time Woody the gang won't listen to your sensible argument on why players (quality players ) go when teams from higher divisions come in for them,we are big big sufc and demand you stay and play in this turgid league !of course they don't listen.Doubling trebling there money is not important as there proud to play for sufc in league 1,amazing in it Woody they go anyway.
McCabe has said we can't stop them bettering themselves and the price we get is what the buying club agrees to pay.Say we turn them down ! it will be difficult to get the player focused when he could be on maybe 20 grand a week compared to what we can offer.The ideal position is the player is happy to stay that would be great,but as we have seen that doasnt happen.We possibly have some good ens coming through and the only way we can keep them is to move up the divisions.

 

[pommpey]

Wasting your time Woody the gang won't listen to your sensible argument on why players (quality players ) go when teams from higher divisions come in for them,we are big big sufc and demand you stay and play in this turgid league !of course they don't listen.Doubling trebling there money is not important as there proud to play for sufc in league 1,amazing in it Woody they go anyway.

'Sensible argument'? Sounds more like 'Why Mr McCabe is right and very justified in what he says, thank you very much and goodnight.'

Murphy signed a three year contract the previous year. Of course he wanted out. No mention on how much of that undisclosed fee was for that two reminaing years and for the cost value of the player as he stands, and how much his absence has (clearly) cost us this season. No. Just, 'we must follow the leader into the bright light and over the cliff.'

McCabe has said we can't stop them bettering themselves and the price we get is what the buying club agrees to pay.Say we turn them down ! it will be difficult to get the player focused when he could be on maybe 20 grand a week compared to what we can offer.

Well, a period out on the bench without a performance and goal bonus might refocus his arse. And if he is playing shit, his transfer market value drops, as does his wage negotiation status when he is moved on.

The ideal position is the player is happy to stay that would be great,but as we have seen that doasnt happen.We possibly have some good ens coming through and the only way we can keep them is to move up the divisions.

'probably'

Show your working out, please.

pommpey

 

[finlaytheblade]

'Sensible argument'? Sounds more like 'Why Mr McCabe is right and very justified in what he says, thank you very much and goodnight.'

Murphy signed a three year contract the previous year. Of course he wanted out. No mention on how much of that undisclosed fee was for that two reminaing years and for the cost value of the player as he stands, and how much his absence has (clearly) cost us this season. No. Just, 'we must follow the leader into the bright light and over the cliff.'



Well, a period out on the bench without a performance and goal bonus might refocus his arse. And if he is playing shit, his transfer market value drops, as does his wage negotiation status when he is moved on.



'probably'

Show your working out, please.

pommpey

Your argument is illogical pommpey
live in the real world of football finance

 

[Chali 2na]

I'm also positive about next year. My only two concerns would be:
-bedding in the (inevitable) large influx of new players
-making the budget stretch as far as we need it. I'm confident there will be money to spend, but will it be enough?

It's a shame how many people are so negative, I'm hoping that as fans we manage to turn a corner (with the players) next year, as a positive crowd would help breed some confidence into the players. Some strong performances from the team between now and the end of the season would help as well.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I'm also positive about next year. My only two concerns would be:
-bedding in the (inevitable) large influx of new players
-making the budget stretch as far as we need it. I'm confident there will be money to spend, but will it be enough?

It's a shame how many people are so negative, I'm hoping that as fans we manage to turn a corner (with the players) next year, as a positive crowd would help breed some confidence into the players. Some strong performances from the team between now and the end of the season would help as well.

I have a gut feeling that the negativity surrounding BDTBL is slowly disappearing after 2 seasons of self inflicted doom and despondency . What you can say about Adkins , is that with him being ultra positive all the time , SUFC will move forward with him getting the backing of the board and fans . Everything to lose and everything to gain situation . Preseason and players in and out will show our intent or not .

Even Warnock could not sustain the positive vibes Adkins generates . Ok he can get on your nerves with the same old , same old propaganda , but we have to believe he knows what he is doing . Also is it a case of better the devil you know .

Millwall will be another test on how we are progressing or not being the case .

Let's hope we have reason to give Adkins , Turnbull , McCabe and Prince credit in the summer . Make a change .

UTB

 

[pommpey]

Your argument is illogical pommpey
live in the real world of football finance

Hang on. You ask me to 'live in the real world of football finance'?

Is that where you live, then?

Being as you are so ITK, why not answer the 'kin questions then? Y'know, the one's ranged around Murphy and his contract.

pommpey

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Wasting your time Woody the gang won't listen to your sensible argument on why players (quality players ) go when teams from higher divisions come in for them,we are big big sufc and demand you stay and play in this turgid league !of course they don't listen.Doubling trebling there money is not important as there proud to play for sufc in league 1,amazing in it Woody they go anyway.
McCabe has said we can't stop them bettering themselves and the price we get is what the buying club agrees to pay.Say we turn them down ! it will be difficult to get the player focused when he could be on maybe 20 grand a week compared to what we can offer.The ideal position is the player is happy to stay that would be great,but as we have seen that doasnt happen.We possibly have some good ens coming through and the only way we can keep them is to move up the divisions.

But at the same time, if we don’t keep them even for a year or two (from the point they’ve started to show their worth and attract interest), we will never move up the divisions. Vicious cycle and something has to happen to break it. I accept our best players will be lost now and again but hardly any club does it to the extent we do. We bend down and pull our pants down every time. Dane Whitehouse being the last player to score 50 goals for our club says it all. How many clubs do you reckon have failed to have a player reach 50 goals since the mid 90s? As soon as anyone achieves anything with us, they are sold.

 

[BushBlade]

But at the same time, if we don’t keep them even for a year or two (from the point they’ve started to show their worth and attract interest), we will never move up the divisions. Vicious cycle and something has to happen to break it. I accept our best players will be lost now and again but hardly any club does it to the extent we do. We bend down and pull our pants down every time. Dane Whitehouse being the last player to score 50 goals for our club says it all. How many clubs do you reckon have failed to have a player reach 50 goals since the mid 90s? As soon as anyone achieves anything with us, they are sold.

Chicken and egg though. If we got promoted we probably wouldn't have to sell as many. Eg, if we'd gone up in the Weir/Clough season, we'd have probably kept Harry, gone up last season and kept Murphy.
We're not the only club to sell players but we seem to be one of the worst at dealing with it.

In my opinion, our wage bill is ridiculous. We have too many senior players and we pay most of them far too much, a lot more than we can afford. So we keep selling players and ploughing the cash into sustaining this wage bill, when we should be signing good replacements.

We have wasted a huge amount of money on high wages for players who haven't justified it and have no resale value. In many cases we struggle to give them away because no one else at our level can afford their wages

We have pursued this strategy, for most of the time, since we got relegated from the PL (after Robson's binge) and it hasn't worked.

Until we start living within our means, keeping the wage bill under control and investing in players for the future (ie buying them) the owners will continue to lose money and get nowhere.

The fundamentals of football never change; you scout hard, find good players, buy them. Sell the odd one on when they've done a job for you and are highly valued and reinvest in new good players.

Anyone who thinks they can shortcut that process is an idiot who will lose a lot of money.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Chicken and egg though. If we got promoted we probably wouldn't have to sell as many. Eg, if we'd gone up in the Weir/Clough season, we'd have probably kept Harry, gone up last season and kept Murphy.
We're not the only club to sell players but we seem to be one of the worst at dealing with it.

In my opinion, our wage bill is ridiculous. We have too many senior players and we pay most of them far too much, a lot more than we can afford. So we keep selling players and ploughing the cash into sustaining this wage bill, when we should be signing good replacements.

We have wasted a huge amount of money on high wages for players who haven't justified it and have no resale value. In many cases we struggle to give them away because no one else at our level can afford their wages

We have pursued this strategy, for most of the time, since we got relegated from the PL (after Robson's binge) and it hasn't worked.

Until we start living within our means, keeping the wage bill under control and investing in players for the future (ie buying them) the owners will continue to lose money and get nowhere.

The fundamentals of football never change; you scout hard, find good players, buy them. Sell the odd one on when they've done a job for you and are highly valued and reinvest in new good players.

Anyone who thinks they can shortcut that process is an idiot who will lose a lot of money.

I agree with most of that. But if we sell our best player every season, the elusive promotion becomes harder to come by. Maguire was in the last year of his contract and wanted to go. You can understand why we reluctantly sold him. Murphy on the other hand had just signed a new deal. He could have had absolutely no complaints if we insisted that he give us another year. Especially if we had agreed to sell him the following summer if we didn’t go up. Many clubs structure that sort of agreement. We did it with Jags when we got promoted. Warnock had told him he could go if other clubs came in if he gave us that season. Fortunately we got up that season. Unfortunately, we didn’t stay there and the club were true to their word and allowed him to leave. But it shows how just holding firm once can make all the difference. The window in which we retain a decent player of late is horrendous. Give that we have a conveyerbelt of managers as well, it makes success incredibly difficult to achieve. Kim And

 

[BushBlade]

I agree with most of that. But if we sell our best player every season, the elusive promotion becomes harder to come by. Maguire was in the last year of his contract and wanted to go. You can understand why we reluctantly sold him. Murphy on the other hand had just signed a new deal. He could have had absolutely no complaints if we insisted that he give us another year. Especially if we had agreed to sell him the following summer if we didn’t go up. Many clubs structure that sort of agreement. We did it with Jags when we got promoted. Warnock had told him he could go if other clubs came in if he gave us that season. Fortunately we got up that season. Unfortunately, we didn’t stay there and the club were true to their word and allowed him to leave. But it shows how just holding firm once can make all the difference. The window in which we retain a decent player of late is horrendous. Give that we have a conveyerbelt of managers as well, it makes success incredibly difficult to achieve. Kim And

Kim And?

I'm not a fan of holding players to contracts against their wishes. For all we know, Murph might have signed his last contract on the basis that if we didn't go up and we received an acceptable offer we'd let him go, and he agreed to the contract knowing it meant his value would rise, benefiting us more than him.

But whether we should force players to stay is really just a matter of opinion, I prefer brown sauce on both bacon and sausages and I think your red sauce sausage preference is bizarre. I just can't accept it's the way forward. It's the same thing really.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Kim And?

I'm not a fan of holding players to contracts against their wishes. For all we know, Murph might have signed his last contract on the basis that if we didn't go up and we received an acceptable offer we'd let him go, and he agreed to the contract knowing it meant his value would rise, benefiting us more than him.

But whether we should force players to stay is really just a matter of opinion, I prefer brown sauce on both bacon and sausages and I think your red sauce sausage preference is bizarre. I just can't accept it's the way forward. It's the same thing really.

Kim And.... was typed in error. I was working on something at the same time and my computer froze meaning my typing carried over on to here. Perhaps rather than forcing players to stay, we should be doing more to convince them there is a bright future here. Jags said he didn't mind staying at the time the bids came in because the club was showing ambition signing the likes of Ifill and Webber. I thought after our great run and end to the season, we might have been able to sell our project to Maguire. Perhaps bringing in players like JCR, McNulty and Alcock didn't inspire him to want to give it another season. We need to find some way to keep our better players for longer than we have been. Perhaps that means being less reliant on one or two players and having a better spread of quality over the team with balance and attributes that compliment each other and the system we play.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Kim And.... was typed in error. I was working on something at the same time and my computer froze meaning my typing carried over on to here. Perhaps rather than forcing players to stay, we should be doing more to convince them there is a bright future here. Jags said he didn't mind staying at the time the bids came in because the club was showing ambition signing the likes of Ifill and Webber. I thought after our great run and end to the season, we might have been able to sell our project to Maguire. Perhaps bringing in players like JCR, McNulty and Alcock didn't inspire him to want to give it another season. We need to find some way to keep our better players for longer than we have been. Perhaps that means being less reliant on one or two players and having a better spread of quality over the team with balance and attributes that compliment each other and the system we play.

Forget that, who is Kim and what were you "working on"

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Forget that, who is Kim and what were you "working on"

Never you mind......

Nah nothing interesting really. Just work.

 

[Silent Blade]

Forget that, who is Kim and what were you "working on"

Never you mind......

Nah nothing interesting really. Just work.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I'm not a fan of holding players to contracts against their wishes. For all we know, Murph might have signed his last contract on the basis that if we didn't go up and we received an acceptable offer we'd let him go, and he agreed to the contract knowing it meant his value would rise, benefiting us more than him.

That's exactly how I read it at the time. Especially that last part.

 

[Deleted member 875]

That's exactly how I read it at the time. Especially that last part.

So you haven't got Bushblade on ignore, which other posters have you not got on ignore.

I eagerly await your answer.

Yours faithfully

Brownie

P.S. Are you ignoring me?