Away Games for Families - Ideas?

[William Henry Foulkes]

I thought this post by Hurby deserved a thread of its own

It shows some of the bad and some of the good that happened yesterday - and raises many questions, one of which is:

How can we make away games family friendly?

"My 12-year-old son was caught in the middle of the action today and by all evidence was very frightened and upset. The Rochdale stewards took him and his dad away from the fights and hostilities, and led him to the United dressing room, telling Adkins: "Here is one of your lads who was scared by what is happening over there". All credit to Adkins, he spent time to console him, took selfies on my child's phone, asked him who his favourite player was and fetched him (Billy Sharp) to come and say hello and give some comfort as well. Billy took the shirt off his back, signed it and gave it to my son. All this consoled my child somewhat - normally, it would have been the highlight of his week! - but until he went to bed, he wouldn't stop repeating who punched whom, what words were shouted, how hostile people came across to be. And this comes from a child who holds a season ticket and goes to away matches at least once a month! In all honesty, I am starting to think that there may be better ways to organise his weekends. And I am not thinking about the poor United scoring record (I don't think my child remembers anything different in his lifetime!), but about wanting to keep him away from some spiteful mob that I would not characterise as a 'community'. This, I think, is sad."

Posting from my phone and can't do the subject justice but a few thoughts:

It should be a day out at a football match not a traumatising experience of drunkenness, aggression, violence, and civil war.

It's not just about families - we should all be able to enjoy the day out.

It's like a return to the 80s - we've moved on from there before so this problem is not insoluble.

Banning the perpetrators where possible could be a start - does this work?

What can the club do?

They need to make a statement acknowledging the issue and steps forward

Credit to stewards, NA, Billy, and Hurby.

I hope the club can do something about this.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

I'd probably suggest they give Millwall and Chesterfield away a swerve, and that's nothing to do with the bellends that were acting the goat yesterday.

Realistically though, you're never going to get football matches to be as family friendly as you may want them to be. I grew up watching United in the 90's and although the hooliganism of the 80's had died down, as a 5-15 year old it was pretty scary going to places like Birmingham, Sunderland, Millwall, Cardiff, Stoke etc and having middle aged men threatening anyone and everyone who supported the Blades.

It didn't put me off though, I went to every game then and now i'm 25 I still go to every game now. I'm not condoning what happened yesterday, it was embarrassing beyond belief, but the reality is you're always gonna get a small percentage dickheads at football matches whether it be Blades fans or others, so people have to make the decision whether or not they want their families to witness it.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

When my lad was mascot 10 or so years ago, part of the tour was in the police part of the main stand and they showed us how they can zoom in to every seat in the ground if they need to. I know this isn't true of every ground but until they start dealing with the idiots causing the problems, picking them out and imposing bans, it will continue. There's supposed to be zero tolerance on racial abuse etc but has anyone ever seen anyone evicted, I haven't ?

As someone has said elsewhere, the stewards aren't interested for the most part.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

It's football, it's game of strong passions, & sometimes those passions boil over.

It'll never be a calm, rational, reasonable environment.

 

[Revolution]

The club can improve the atmosphere by winning more away games.

It really is that simple.

 

[Foxy]

Football shouldn't be sanitised.

You should however be able to feel safe to take your kids in the knowledge that even the rowdiest you are likely to come across are your own and therefore won't act like pricks towards you and your young uns.

 

[Revolution]

Oh, one other thing. If people have broken the law, report them. They'll get banned.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

It's football, it's game of strong passions, & sometimes those passions boil over.

It'll never be a calm, rational, reasonable environment.

Do you think we should do something about an environment in which children are traumatised?

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Football shouldn't be sanitised.

You should however be able to feel safe to take your kids in the knowledge that even the rowdiest you are likely to come across are your own and therefore won't act like pricks towards you and your young uns.

Agree about the sanitisation.

A parallel for me might be the way Labour dealt with Militant, which I think needed doing.

But what took its place had excesses of its own.

For all sorts of reasons kids should be able to have a day out at an away game.

One small suggestion would be having a reciprocal arrangement for tickets in the family stand at the away ground. Is this possible I wonder?

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Do you think we should do something about an environment in which children are traumatised?

"Traumatised" is a bit excessive, Will. The lad will get over it - he never came to any harm, he just saw a few blokes acting a bit unreasonably (as happens from time to time at football matches). By Tuesday, the storm will all have blown over.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

When my lad was mascot 10 or so years ago, part of the tour was in the police part of the main stand and they showed us how they can zoom in to every seat in the ground if they need to. I know this isn't true of every ground but until they start dealing with the idiots causing the problems, picking them out and imposing bans, it will continue. There's supposed to be zero tolerance on racial abuse etc but has anyone ever seen anyone evicted, I haven't ?

As someone has said elsewhere, the stewards aren't interested for the most part.

Tbf to the stewards they aren't specialists in violent conflict.

At the insistence/invitation of some United fans near me one did intervene between two fans yesterday as mentioned by Foxy elsewhere. And again credit to him.

But this is "way beyond their pay grade".

Filming the behaviour yesterday, and at Donny, identifying the perpetrators, and banning them would've been a start I think.

 

[Gordon cowans]

I agree with the comment about missing milwall away,as bad as it is,its like asking a kitten to turn up at a lions hunting convention...............sad i know,but true.......great story btw regarding adkins/billy

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

"Traumatised" is a bit excessive, Will. The lad will get over it - he never came to any harm, he just saw a few blokes acting a bit unreasonably (as happens from time to time at football matches). By Tuesday, the storm will all have blown over.

There are different degrees of trauma.

This is not an endurance test - it's a day out.

Is the scenario detailed in OP remotely acceptable?

Should the child just deal with it? He met his hero got a signed shirt and all he wanted, understandably, to talk about was the violence. Sounds like trauma to me.

This was not an isolated incident: several posters have mentioned not taking their kids in the first place, not going themselves at all, or not going again after yesterday.

There were two kids with their dad, I'd guess 8 and 10, I ended up standing next to who looked utterly lost at what they were witnessing.

If this isn't a big deal, then I can't see what is.

 

[Grey Blade]

One small suggestion would be having a reciprocal arrangement for tickets in the family stand at the away ground. Is this possible I wonder?

I think this would worth looking at. Especially at fairly local away games. From a practical point of view it seems a little pointless taking a small child to an away game when invariably everyone stands. Fleetwood is the one ground where there is an option. Can't think of any others off hand

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

There are different degrees of trauma.

This is not an endurance test - it's a day out.

Is the scenario detailed in OP remotely acceptable?

Should the child just deal with it? He met his hero got a signed shirt and all he wanted, understandably, to talk about was the violence. Sounds like trauma to me.

This was not an isolated incident: several posters have mentioned not taking their kids in the first place, not going themselves at all, or not going again after yesterday.

There were two kids with their dad, I'd guess 8 and 10, I ended up standing next to who looked utterly lost at what they were witnessing.

If this isn't a big deal, then I can't see what is.

It's not a big deal. It was unpleasant for him, no doubt (although there was a hell of a upside in his case - big credit to NA & Billy). But will he really be trapped in a situation of endlessly reliving the events in a week's time, let alone a year's time? - I think not.

This sort of thing is happening because of the situation we, as a club, are in. I'm not interested in condemning fans going over the top (fans who, I'm sure, had no interest whatsoever in going about "traumatising" kids, but who were instead wrapped up in their own concerns). If we were gunning for a top two place (in the Third Division!), fans would overall be a damn site happier; the kid's experiences would likely then be joyous ones, not the largely shitty time he must be having more generally enduring United nowadays.

Maybe, at times like this, dads of sensitive children are better off either not taking them to potentially volatile away games, or taking precautions to keep them away from likely flash points (as far as that can be done). Visiting the New Den is a case in point.

 

[robbiez666]

It's a difficulty because the idiocy is been carried out by our own fans. Traditionally you can generally (although I know a Barnsley fan who had to hide in a random family's house after their 4-0 play-off win at St Andrews) avoid any trouble (unless you're unlucky) by keeping away from dodgy areas and bits of away grounds. You can't avoid where you're sat/stood sometimes at away grounds.

 

[robbiez666]

It's not a big deal. It was unpleasant for him, no doubt (although there was a hell of a upside in his case - big credit to NA & Billy). But will he really be trapped in a situation of endlessly reliving the events in a week's time, let alone a year's time? - I think not.

This sort of thing is happening because of the situation we, as a club, are in. I'm not interested in condemning fans going over the top (fans who, I'm sure, had no interest whatsoever in going about "traumatising" kids, but who were instead wrapped up in their own concerns). If we were gunning for a top two place (in the Third Division!), fans would overall be a damn site happier; the kid's experiences would likely then be joyous ones, not the largely shitty time he must be having more generally enduring United nowadays.

Maybe, at times like this, dads of sensitive children are better off either not taking them to potentially volatile away games, or taking precautions to keep them away from likely flash points (as far as that can be done). Visiting the New Den is a case in point.

You don't have to be a 'sensitive' 12 year old to get upset by a group of lairy, drunk/drugged-up young yobs mate. Shouldn't have to endure that as a child.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

If we were riding high at the top of the league challenging stuff like this wouldn't happen.

Oh, one other thing. If people have broken the law, report them. They'll get banned.

Give over why do that when you can go on a message board to complain ?

I said same after the Donny AC unit - surely in the day and age almost every one has a camera phone why don't people film/take pics and report them to the appropriate authorities?

Or am I missing something?

 

[sheffielder]

Maybe all the police who get paid overtime to work on a Saturday do their job and not actually monitor the grass outside. At halftime the police should be in the ground where people are drinking. They then make sure people go back to their seat after half time.

The other option is the self policing idea where somebody creates a website and people who take photos of these little shits can upload them. People can then name and shame them anonymously.

But what do we do about the 50 year old men who shout torrents of abuse, mostly garbage when things start going wrong? Because they are a problem as well.

 

[pommpey]

It's football, it's game of strong passions, & sometimes those passions boil over.

It'll never be a calm, rational, reasonable environment.

It should be a safe environment for youngsters to attend, Alfreton. I don't get why you are so sanguine about it. I remember the dark days of the seventies and eighties and it was disgraceful, tribal behaviour. This is even worse (if it can be) - Blades fans scrapping amongst each other.

I'm happy for perpetrators to be banned. My own nephew was banned for a long time from BDTBL for his actions and I will never defend him - he was an idiot.

Passions are not excusable when turned into violence. It is a weak alignment.

pommpey

 

[Lane Ender]

I started going to the Lane with the lads who was the same age at ten years old.
There used to be bollocks at most games it never traumatised us.
We wasn't involved obviously but we used to watch join in with the chanting .
But in those days it wasn't a family game it is now so it needs addressing .
Something like the Eds pen in the 70s might work.

 

[mosbolad]

I thought this post by Hurby deserved a thread of its own

It shows some of the bad and some of the good that happened yesterday - and raises many questions, one of which is:

How can we make away games family friendly?

"My 12-year-old son was caught in the middle of the action today and by all evidence was very frightened and upset. The Rochdale stewards took him and his dad away from the fights and hostilities, and led him to the United dressing room, telling Adkins: "Here is one of your lads who was scared by what is happening over there". All credit to Adkins, he spent time to console him, took selfies on my child's phone, asked him who his favourite player was and fetched him (Billy Sharp) to come and say hello and give some comfort as well. Billy took the shirt off his back, signed it and gave it to my son. All this consoled my child somewhat - normally, it would have been the highlight of his week! - but until he went to bed, he wouldn't stop repeating who punched whom, what words were shouted, how hostile people came across to be. And this comes from a child who holds a season ticket and goes to away matches at least once a month! In all honesty, I am starting to think that there may be better ways to organise his weekends. And I am not thinking about the poor United scoring record (I don't think my child remembers anything different in his lifetime!), but about wanting to keep him away from some spiteful mob that I would not characterise as a 'community'. This, I think, is sad."

Posting from my phone and can't do the subject justice but a few thoughts:

It should be a day out at a football match not a traumatising experience of drunkenness, aggression, violence, and civil war.

It's not just about families - we should all be able to enjoy the day out.

It's like a return to the 80s - we've moved on from there before so this problem is not insoluble.

Banning the perpetrators where possible could be a start - does this work?

What can the club do?

They need to make a statement acknowledging the issue and steps forward

Credit to stewards, NA, Billy, and Hurby.

I hope the club can do something about this.

Agree entirely Fatty. I went with a group of mates, a few beers before hand, last one in the Rochdale ground pub where fans mixed quite amiably.

The teams performance was very good (other than a complete inability to convert a chance). Best performance other than lack of goals I have seen for a while. The support form the fans was good also. Then in the concourse at half time half of it was taken over by a group of teenage nobs whose ambition seems to be to climb on something and intimidate 'normal' fans all around them. Of course then there is the obligatory smoke bomb let off to hoots of excitement!

Second half almost predicable that despite our endevours first half, Rochdale would get their chance and inevitably they did, 1 nil down. 1 nil became 2 nil and the boo boys started. Sack the board, Adkins, players, not fit for the shirt, we're shit, the full repertoire. As disappointed as I was I do find it quite sad that the fans or a portion of them so quickly turn on the team. The scenes at the end although in my mind were not quite as serious as some make out (unless I missed something), were just simply embarrassing. Fans trying to get on the pitch, to do what? Wrestling with stewards for possession of a frost cover? Really? Grow up lads.

Can I suggest a climbing frame some playground adventure equipment and a large tarpaulin be provided for these 'fans' near the away ground but far enough that they do not blight the enjoyment (or otherwise) of the game.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

It should be a safe environment for youngsters to attend, Alfreton. I don't get why you are so sanguine about it. I remember the dark days of the seventies and eighties and it was disgraceful, tribal behaviour. This is even worse (if it can be) - Blades fans scrapping amongst each other.

I'm happy for perpetrators to be banned. My own nephew was banned for a long time from BDTBL for his actions and I will never defend him - he was an idiot.

Passions are not excusable when turned into violence. It is a weak alignment.

pommpey

But it's not worse, Pommp. It's different.

If the authorities ban indiviuals for specific unlawful acts, then fine, totally. I doubt anyone would complain: it'd be welcomed.

I'm just not that comfortable with tarring large numbers of vociferous, unhappy fans with the "80s-style hooligan" brush.

I wish we all got along together, but these are dark times for the club (as you've eloquently described over recent weeks) & it's hardly surprising if emotions boil over at times. Divisions within the fan base are bound to be exposed.

I've heard nowt to make me think it was "unsafe" for kids at Rochdale, more that it was a bit unpleasant for some of them. I've not heard of anyone actually physically hurt. Like Mosbo says above: "The scenes at the end ... in my mind were not quite as serious as some make out ...Fans trying to get on the pitch ... Wrestling with stewards for possession of a frost cover ... [in addition to the verbal "unpleasantness"]".

 

[pommpey]

But it's not worse, Pommp. It's different.

If the authorities ban indiviuals for specific unlawful acts, then fine, totally. I doubt anyone would complain: it'd be welcomed.

I'm just not that comfortable with tarring large numbers of vociferous, unhappy fans with the "80s-style hooligan" brush.

I wish we all got along together, but these are dark times for the club (as you've eloquently described over recent weeks) & it's hardly surprising if emotions boil over at times. Divisions within the fan base are bound to be exposed.

I've heard nowt to make me think it was "unsafe" for kids at Rochdale, more that it was a bit unpleasant for some of them. I've not heard of anyone actually physically hurt.

But if I take my young child to a football match, I wouldn't want them to feel scared by the actions of blokes - and it is undoubtedly blokes - getting gobby and punchy with each other over a game of football. What precedent does that set for impressionable minds?

a. Football is supported by aggressive thugs
b. It's a perfectly normative behaviour type of thing, because it is football
c. This is understandable because the club is being run badly and we have lost

There's no fallacy in what I have put there as preconditions to your standpoint. But the grand fallacy is that for the large point, all of it is (or should be) false. You are more or less reinforcing the statements. And reinforcing them in young people's minds. Where does that behavior trait stop then? Kicking off and smashing up a shop because they have short changed you? Battering a fellow driver because he has cut you up? Thumping the shit out of your wife, because she has pissed you off? Giving your kids a good hiding (i.e. brutalising them) because they have been naughty?

Violence solves fuck all. It exposes and reinforces weaknesses in the character. That might sound all Zen, but it isn't.

pommpey

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

But if I take my young child to a football match, I wouldn't want them to feel scared by the actions of blokes - and it is undoubtedly blokes - getting gobby and punchy with each other over a game of football. What precedent does that set for impressionable minds?

a. Football is supported by aggressive thugs
b. It's a perfectly normative behaviour type of thing, because it is football
c. This is understandable because the club is being run badly and we have lost

There's no fallacy in what I have put there as preconditions to your standpoint. But the grand fallacy is that for the large point, all of it is (or should be) false. You are more or less reinforcing the statements. And reinforcing them in young people's minds. Where does that behavior trait stop then? Kicking off and smashing up a shop because they have short changed you? Battering a fellow driver because he has cut you up? Thumping the shit out of your wife, because she has pissed you off? Giving your kids a good hiding (i.e. brutalising them) because they have been naughty?

Violence solves fuck all. It exposes and reinforces weaknesses in the character. That might sound all Zen, but it isn't.

pommpey

You're just indulging in the hyperbole I talked about.

I'm not reinforcing any statement in young people's minds, because the comments I make on a football message board are merely part of good natured discussion amongst fellow fans - they don't involve me in any wider responsibilities at all.

I share your antipathy towards violence, incidentally. But you really are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Football has an edge, it always will have (or it dies). Sometimes that edge extends out into uncomfortable areas (& very occasionally, admittedly, into outright violence). The areas extended into yesterday were uncomfortable rather than violent, as I understand it. Far too much is being made of it, in my view.

Football is, by it's nature, an aggressive sport, played & watched in an aggressive environment (apart from at MK Dons). Was Chris Morgan somehow wrong in his approach?

 

[breeny]

It was definitely unsafe yesterday and I'd be very surprised if nobody was injured.

 

[Bladeloyal]

"Traumatised" is a bit excessive, Will. The lad will get over it - he never came to any harm, he just saw a few blokes acting a bit unreasonably (as happens from time to time at football matches). By Tuesday, the storm will all have blown over.

it seems to me and I'm in no way condoning poor behaviour that some parents are more traumatized than their kids .

 

[pommpey]

You're just indulging in the hyperbole I talked about.

Not really. United fans offering out United fans because of what is happening out on the pitch as a result of mismanagement at board room level in front of kids is about as disgraceful as it can get. Showing Rochdale what a bunch of hooligans our travelling contingent contains by destructive behaviour shows the impotence felt by the fans. Why does it manifest itself as this behaviour? If people are that inclined, there's a great outlet in uniform. You get a gun and some bad guys to crack on with. Enjoy.

I'm not reinforcing any statement in young people's minds, because the comments I make on a football message board are merely part of good natured discussion amongst fellow fans - they don't involve me in any wider responsibilities at all.

But you are offering an excuse wrapped in a reason to justify dickhead's behaviour. If the United end had been run by opposition fans (as doesn't happen much these days, thank fuck) and people stand a fight, then you can understand it in a limited fashion. But this is wilful violence and it's end result is ... ignominy, reputation and loss of belief in the club even further than it has gone.

Football has an edge, it always will have (or it dies). Sometimes that edge extends out into uncomfortable areas (& very occasionally, admittedly, into outright violence). The areas extended into yesterday were uncomfortable rather than violent, as I understand it. Far too much is being made of it, in my view.

Well, having seen the BBC in action in days of yore, it depends what molehill you wish to consider a mountain. I had to shield my son from the BBC and the 6:57 scrapping behind Fratton Park. My boy was shit scared. It changed his outlook on football.

Football is, by it's nature, an aggressive sport, played & watched in an aggressive environment (apart from at MK Dons). Was Chris Morgan somehow wrong in his approach?

No. Substitute 'aggressive' for 'competitive'. Morgan was competitive. He was strong, brave, direct and competitive. Football is a competition, not an excuse to display aggression.

pommpey

 

[Leonardo Green]

It can't get much more sanitised, just be glad that you follow football in England and not Europe.

 

[pommpey]

It can't get much more sanitised, just be glad that you follow football in England and not Europe.

I've seen a River Plate vs Boca Jnrs game Leonardo. I was fucking terrified.

pommpey