SUFC as a business ?

[Keen Blade]

I would like help from the truly ITK on these thoughts :

The assets of a football Club are usually its Ground and its long Contracts with attractive players , both categories of which have a market value if sold.

Lots of Clubs our size have sold the inner city (valuable) land/ground on which they sat , which has financed the building of soulless new stadia on the barren edges of their towns , plus a few new players.
Am I correct in thinking we can't do this because of the Prince deal - which cleared our monetary debt to McCabe by giving McCabe the freehold of Bramall Lane ?
So we as a Club don't have our ground as an asset ? McCabe has it and we are just tenants who have to pay rent ? And when McCabe checks out for good , the freehold of our beloved home could end up anywhere his will & testimony sends it ?

And when you look at the players contracts we hold (apart from Brayford, Sharp & possibly Che) , they are not worth a hill of beans. A huge number of the contracts run out this June anyway, so are worthless. And those that don't are with players who are generally worthless - as shown by our inability to offload any of them , despite desperately wanting to reduce the squad.

So would I be correct in concluding that the entire Club , if valued by an accountant , is virtually worthless at the moment ?

If we made a trading profit , like a normal business , there would be some value in us "as a going concern" , even if the assets were worth nothing - but naturally , like any other Club outside the top half of the Premiership , we are loss-making , and so there is no value to chalk up there.

So why oh why oh why doesn't McCabe just LEAVE , if he is not prepared to put any more subsidy in ?

On my argument above , his stake in the Club (and the Prince's) is worth practically nothing , so he cannot expect anyone to pay him anything for it !
He has already got out of the Club the biggest asset worth having - the freehold !

So if he or his successors decide to redevelop the Lane as a retail park or flats , we have no home to sell to buy us a new home.

I would welcome informed comment or correction on the above points.

I feel that he should just give the other half of the Club to the Prince for £1 , if the Prince would bankroll some proper effort to get promoted (ie: new players fees / wages).

I have a multitude of fears which stem from our current business structure , but the worst is the disappearance of the Lane as my football home.

My other fears include such things as "why are we limping along the middle of the third division when a Saudi Prince is a co-owner ?". Surely the Prince is in it for the pay-off that promotion might bring ? So he knows , as any businessman , that you have to speculate to accumulate.

There is something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG with our Club , but I am insufficiently informed to know what it is , given that I rely on a local media (RS/Star) who have never heard of investigative/incisive journalism.

Many years ago (in the 80s) I was managing a £1m turnover business and I kept telling the owners there was too much cash in one particular current account.
Little did I know that they had identified my successor (someone's nephew) and the cash was going to be used for my severance package !

I get the feeling something similar is about to be done to me by the Blades - I can see it all going strangely wrong before my very eyes and I cannot for the life of me think why - but it's too mysterious to be innocent.

 

[Treeton Blade]

 

[Bartleby]

Not gone into it in that much depth but you paint a depressing picture. In light of the Blackpool game I was reading about the Oyston family and I take some cheer from the fact we are not in that situation.

 

[metalblade]

There is always a chance we could end up like Rotherham or Coventry did the only difference is there is no longer the Don Valley Stadium to move to we would have to go cap in hand to S6 or go further afield. Of course the McCabe apologist's will tell there is no bigger blade than our Kev and he would never do such a thing but he hasn't quite wrung every penny he can out of the club just yet and there is no way he will leave until he gets his money back at least. We could be stuck in this situation for years or even decades where he will not go but at the same time will not put any investment into the club, this bollocks that he is holding all the assets for the benefit of the club is just that a load of bollocks, he his protecting his investment while the club is paying for his mistakes and we will be for years unless by some miracle we get to the Premier league.

 

[Grappler]

I don't claim to be in-the-know, but I know a few people who are (not at the very top, but with a few connections).

My take on this, as will be the same for most people, is that Kevin McCabe will never "walk away", because he has too much money invested in the club. He wants to sell, and would sell right now if the right deal could be found with a buyer who had the cash. That is not as easy as it sounds, as we would cost the same, or more, than the grunters at S6 and we are a League 1 club who look like staying in League 1 for at least another year. Manderic paid less for SWFC than he would have to pay to buy United, and when he sold, they were a Championship team.

There will be a lot of other factors that we don't know about, as fans, but for me (at least), the basics, in a nut shell, we are too expensive for any potential buyer.

As for the Prince buying the rest of the club, I would use this analogy:-

Kevin McCabe buys a mansion in need of repair, puts in a lot of money to have it renovated, then more to have it upgraded, then pays all the running costs. But as with all houses, all that needs spending again a few years later, and he decides enough is enough and lets the Prince move in, for a quid, as long as the Prince starts to pay all the bills. If you were Kevin McCabe, would you just say to the Prince, "all right mate, I am going to walk away, you can have the whole house for another quid, and if you sell it in a few years, you will make money for sure", or would you want to put it on the open market and try and find a buyer so you didn't walk away with nothing to show for it?

 

[Barney]

Sean Thornton's your man.

Seriously, this is his game.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I don't claim to be in-the-know, but I know a few people who are (not at the very top, but with a few connections).

My take on this, as will be the same for most people, is that Kevin McCabe will never "walk away", because he has too much money invested in the club. He wants to sell, and would sell right now if the right deal could be found with a buyer who had the cash. That is not as easy as it sounds, as we would cost the same, or more, than the grunters at S6 and we are a League 1 club who look like staying in League 1 for at least another year. Manderic paid less for SWFC than he would have to pay to buy United, and when he sold, they were a Championship team.

There will be a lot of other factors that we don't know about, as fans, but for me (at least), the basics, in a nut shell, we are too expensive for any potential buyer.

As for the Prince buying the rest of the club, I would use this analogy:-

Kevin McCabe buys a mansion in need of repair, puts in a lot of money to have it renovated, then more to have it upgraded, then pays all the running costs. But as with all houses, all that needs spending again a few years later, and he decides enough is enough and lets the Prince move in, for a quid, as long as the Prince starts to pay all the bills. If you were Kevin McCabe, would you just say to the Prince, "all right mate, I am going to walk away, you can have the whole house for another quid, and if you sell it in a few years, you will make money for sure", or would you want to put it on the open market and try and find a buyer so you didn't walk away with nothing to show for it?

Here is the thing and I don't claim to understand it.
Jim Phipps has said that Prince Abdullah's investment is being used to fund the annual losses made by the football club.

The football club made a loss of £451K last financial year to June 2015.
However, the football club also paid interest of £2.57M on loans to companies owned by Kevin McCabe.

So does this not mean that only £451K of the Prince's money is funding the annual losses.
While £2.57M of the Prince's money is being paid to McCabe via his companies.

If McCabe wrote off the loans (I thought he said he was going to do this) or at least the interest payments on those loans, the football club would then be fairly close to breaking even? Wouldn't it?




http://www.sufc.co.uk/news/article/20131122-downloads-341951.aspx

 

[MobileBlade]

Think they are the (ex) plc account not the football club. That company is 86% ish owned by McCabe and the rest by individuals. It is the company that hold the freehold on the ground etc and a 50% share in SUFC Limited.

 

[bartman]

Here is the thing and I don't claim to understand it.
Jim Phipps has said that Prince Abdullah's investment is being used to fund the annual losses made by the football club.

The football club made a loss of £451K last financial year to June 2015.
However, the football club also paid interest of £2.57M on loans to companies owned by Kevin McCabe.

So does this not mean that only £451K of the Prince's money is funding the annual losses.
While £2.57M of the Prince's money is being paid to McCabe via his companies.

If McCabe wrote off the loans (I thought he said he was going to do this) or at least the interest payments on those loans, the football club would then be fairly close to breaking even? Wouldn't it?

View attachment 15652
View attachment 15653

http://www.sufc.co.uk/news/article/20131122-downloads-341951.aspx

I am not sure bit isn't the football club a limited company. If that is the case and McCabe ' s limited companies are owed money wouldn't it be best for the Prince to agree a long term lease on the ground and refuse to support the club financially which would then potentially force the club into administration so we can start afresh.

I don't know enough about the structure of the debts to know if this will work but all this reminds me of is the position Rotherham were in with the Booth family and we may need a drastic step and,unfortunately, a new stadium to finally break free of the McCabes

 

[BushBlade]

There's fuck all I can do about it. I'm just into football. I run my own business, when I want a break from it I come on here to read about football. Couldn't give two shits about balance sheets, P&L accounts, who owns the fucking stadium any more. Can't change any of it.
And I'm finding it hard to distinguish which of the new posters are really disaffected Blades and which ones are from the other side.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Think they are the (ex) plc account not the football club. That company is 86% ish owned by McCabe and the rest by individuals. It is the company that hold the freehold on the ground etc and a 50% share in SUFC Limited.

SU Limited owns the ground and Shirecliffe.

However, it does not own 50% of the Football Club.

McCabe and the Prince own Blades Leisure (50/50) which is the holding company that owns Sheffield United Football Club Limited.

SU Limited is owned by Scarborough Group Limited ie the main company owned by the McCabe Family Trust.

In removing the debt, McCabe sold half of BL / FC to the Prince on the proviso that the Prince invested on the football side of things. I think that was up to £20M.

I'm not sure but the initial £20M pumped into the club was 50/50 between McCabe and the Prince.

The FC at the moment loses about £4M to £5M a year plus we sacked Weir and Clough and all their hangers on.

It's an expensive business.

The frustrating fact is we haven't yet employed the manager who could take us up (maybe Adkins will succeed in the next year or so) but have continued to assemble an expensive group of footballers that have failed so far.

We could pull off the unexpected and go up through the playoffs. Otherwise a major clearout and start again this summer.

 

[UnitedBlade]

I am not sure bit isn't the football club a limited company. If that is the case and McCabe ' s limited companies are owed money wouldn't it be best for the Prince to agree a long term lease on the ground and refuse to support the club financially which would then potentially force the club into administration so we can start afresh.

I don't know enough about the structure of the debts to know if this will work but all this reminds me of is the position Rotherham were in with the Booth family and we may need a drastic step and,unfortunately, a new stadium to finally break free of the McCabes

The Football Club doesn't now have significant debts. All administration would do is shit all over loyal local small businesses. That would be a disgusting thing to do.

Why would the Prince refuse to fund going forwards ? If he did, he's better off selling. McCabe would probably buy back and start his search for a buyer or investor that has the necessary funds to get us up (or a manager finally revamps the squad and gets us up).

There still isn't a queue of people with tens of millions wanting to buy Sheffield United.

 

[blade too long]

what do people think McCabe is, some sort of evil landlord

he bought the club , ground and chattle when he took over so owns the deeds
If someone else buys the club theres 2 options
buy it lock stock and barrel with deeds , which with current cost of land in sheffield city centre the lane covers 8 acres
That would bre around 35 to 40 million
or like in real life rent the ground and just buy the company known as Sheffield United , which ever title its sold under
its the same with all properties

 

[blade too long]

Bramall lane which the club owns , under mccabes ownership is 8 acres of prime city centre real estate
worth treble that of the former pig farm hillsborough was jerry built on
Id estimate at current land alone prices the sites worth 35 to 40 million pounds as an assett , minimum

 

[Sean Thornton]

Here is the thing and I don't claim to understand it.
Jim Phipps has said that Prince Abdullah's investment is being used to fund the annual losses made by the football club.

The football club made a loss of £451K last financial year to June 2015.
However, the football club also paid interest of £2.57M on loans to companies owned by Kevin McCabe.

So does this not mean that only £451K of the Prince's money is funding the annual losses.
While £2.57M of the Prince's money is being paid to McCabe via his companies.

If McCabe wrote off the loans (I thought he said he was going to do this) or at least the interest payments on those loans, the football club would then be fairly close to breaking even? Wouldn't it?

View attachment 15652
View attachment 15653

http://www.sufc.co.uk/news/article/20131122-downloads-341951.aspx

To see what interest may be being paid by the football club you need to look at the accounts of The Sheffield United Football Club Limited.

The Prince put ten million cash in - the pound crap is ridiculous - McCabe put ten million in in shares in lieu of debt and transferred the rest of the twenty seven million owed to him to a share premium account. ( as has been said, these twenty million quids worth of shares are virtually worthless).

As for the ground etc, when transferred from the football club SU Ltd took on the equivalent amount of debt.

 

[blade too long]

if like most clubs about our size it seems losing 5 million quid a season is about average
Wednesday admitted that and they were getting more money in the championship , coventry were bleeding 8 million a year
Bolton are apparently losing 1000 pound an hour

 

[Sean Thornton]

Bramall lane which the club owns , under mccabes ownership is 8 acres of prime city centre real estate
worth treble that of the former pig farm hillsborough was jerry built on
Id estimate at current land alone prices the sites worth 35 to 40 million pounds as an assett , minimum

Miles out for the land. Worth nowhere near 40 million. Then there's the cost of clearing the site for whatever imagined project is being touted. Those flats would cost a pretty penny if you had to buy the land, clear it and then build on it with a starting point of 40 million.

Plus the football club owns none of the property.

Have you been reading a badly laid out schedule on wiki again?

 

[pommpey]

To see what interest may be being paid by the football club you need to look at the accounts of The Sheffield United Football Club Limited.

The Prince put ten million cash in - the pound crap is ridiculous - McCabe put ten million in in shares in lieu of debt and transferred the rest of the twenty seven million owed to him to a share premium account. ( as has been said, these twenty million quids worth of shares are virtually worthless).

As for the ground etc, when transferred from the football club SU Ltd took on the equivalent amount of debt.

How much would these worthless shares be realising if were were tenth in the Premier League, two games in hand and a shot at Europe based upon two overseas player transfers finalising over the next twenty four hours?

pommpey

 

[Sean Thornton]

How much would these worthless shares be realising if were were tenth in the Premier League, two games in hand and a shot at Europe based upon two overseas player transfers finalising over the next twenty four hours?

pommpey

That's what they are hoping to find out.

The football club incidentally has £46 million in available tax losses at June 2015.

 

[Worksop II]

How much would these worthless shares be realising if were were tenth in the Premier League, two games in hand and a shot at Europe based upon two overseas player transfers finalising over the next twenty four hours?

pommpey

Be nice wouldn't it, but if you ever get to thinking this is reality

Your biggest worry would be the Cost of your Care Package .................................

 

[pommpey]

I may slag McCabe off a helluva lot on here and call for his head, but in reality, I think he possibly does want the best for SUFC at all times. I just think he (as a businessman) has reached the hairy edge of fucking madness in ploughing his family dosh into a club, and getting the square root of nada back. Everyone has their limitations and boundaries and I think we have long exceeded ours with him and his money. I don't think there's any more money going in ... and no transfers for that matter. He lives in Belgium, why should he give a fat rats arse if the players are playing like bobbar and getting booed, the manager is delivering shakey press conference speech after speech and we are ripping each other to bits on here over it? He's clamped half the liability of the club onto a rich, seemingly gullible and invisible Saudi benefactor, people like Phipps are drawing his fire but above all this, his money is safe. He's made sure of that. If the club goes belly up, he has maximised his return. We'll just stand folornly watching the bulldozers flatten the ground. Of course, that won't happen because if he allows the club to stagnate and go to the wall and Bramall Lane is locked to all visitors, there will be a public outcry and someone - even a lowly fan's consortium - will bale out at least some of the shit while he still owns the ground and the training facilities. Failure (for the football club) is a nationally embarassing non-option, and he fucking knows it.

Its almost too wonderful to get angry about.

pommpey

 

[blade too long]

Miles out for the land. Worth nowhere near 40 million. Then there's the cost of clearing the site for whatever imagined project is being touted. Those flats would cost a pretty penny if you had to buy the land, clear it and then build on it with a starting point of 40 million.

Plus the football club owns none of the property.

Have you been reading a badly laid out schedule on wiki again?

the piece of land on the moor thats being rebuilt on cost 3 .8 million and that was for three quarters of an acre, before demolition began

extrapolating that its around 3 to 4 mill an acre
mccabe owns the deeds, he bought the club with the ground
I cant think of any football club whos owner doesnt own the ground , when the deeds are part of the deal
what bit of ownership is baffling


chelsea own their ground, well abramovich does
we are exactly the same

 

[Barney]

the piece of land on the moor thats being rebuilt on cost 3 .8 million and that was for three quarters of an acre
extrapolating that its around 3 to 4 mill an acre
mccabe owns the deeds, he bought the club with the ground
I cant think of any football club whos owner doesnt own the ground , when the deeds are part of the deal
what bit of ownership is baffling


chelsea own their ground, well abramovich does
we are exactly the same

Ultra-positive protection of the the club and McCabe? Check.
Chelsea references? Check.

Standard.

 

[axel smeets]

That's what they are hoping to find out.

The football club incidentally has £46 million in available tax losses at June 2015.

What does that mean, Sean? Seriously, I've no idea.

 

[Barney]

What does that mean, Sean? Seriously, I've no idea.

Leave him, he's firmly in his element.

I got talking to him about the accounts once. I shan't do it again.

 

[blade too long]

Ultra-positive protection of the the club and McCabe? Check.
Chelsea references? Check.

Standard.

chelsea , villa middlesborough
any club
the owners hold the deeds
Ill make it clear for the real simpletons check
mccabe doesnt need protecting , hes been ignoring stupid people for years
can tell we drew a home game
mccabe getting accused of screwing the club again, its sooooo predictable

 

[Rodley]

I would like help from the truly ITK on these thoughts :

The assets of a football Club are usually its Ground and its long Contracts with attractive players , both categories of which have a market value if sold.

Lots of Clubs our size have sold the inner city (valuable) land/ground on which they sat , which has financed the building of soulless new stadia on the barren edges of their towns , plus a few new players.
Am I correct in thinking we can't do this because of the Prince deal - which cleared our monetary debt to McCabe by giving McCabe the freehold of Bramall Lane ?
So we as a Club don't have our ground as an asset ? McCabe has it and we are just tenants who have to pay rent ? And when McCabe checks out for good , the freehold of our beloved home could end up anywhere his will & testimony sends it ?

And when you look at the players contracts we hold (apart from Brayford, Sharp & possibly Che) , they are not worth a hill of beans. A huge number of the contracts run out this June anyway, so are worthless. And those that don't are with players who are generally worthless - as shown by our inability to offload any of them , despite desperately wanting to reduce the squad.

So would I be correct in concluding that the entire Club , if valued by an accountant , is virtually worthless at the moment ?

If we made a trading profit , like a normal business , there would be some value in us "as a going concern" , even if the assets were worth nothing - but naturally , like any other Club outside the top half of the Premiership , we are loss-making , and so there is no value to chalk up there.

So why oh why oh why doesn't McCabe just LEAVE , if he is not prepared to put any more subsidy in ?

On my argument above , his stake in the Club (and the Prince's) is worth practically nothing , so he cannot expect anyone to pay him anything for it !
He has already got out of the Club the biggest asset worth having - the freehold !

So if he or his successors decide to redevelop the Lane as a retail park or flats , we have no home to sell to buy us a new home.

I would welcome informed comment or correction on the above points.

I feel that he should just give the other half of the Club to the Prince for £1 , if the Prince would bankroll some proper effort to get promoted (ie: new players fees / wages).

I have a multitude of fears which stem from our current business structure , but the worst is the disappearance of the Lane as my football home.

My other fears include such things as "why are we limping along the middle of the third division when a Saudi Prince is a co-owner ?". Surely the Prince is in it for the pay-off that promotion might bring ? So he knows , as any businessman , that you have to speculate to accumulate.

There is something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG with our Club , but I am insufficiently informed to know what it is , given that I rely on a local media (RS/Star) who have never heard of investigative/incisive journalism.

Many years ago (in the 80s) I was managing a £1m turnover business and I kept telling the owners there was too much cash in one particular current account.
Little did I know that they had identified my successor (someone's nephew) and the cash was going to be used for my severance package !

I get the feeling something similar is about to be done to me by the Blades - I can see it all going strangely wrong before my very eyes and I cannot for the life of me think why - but it's too mysterious to be innocent.

 

[Rodley]

Bramall lane which the club owns , under mccabes ownership is 8 acres of prime city centre real estate
worth treble that of the former pig farm hillsborough was jerry built on
Id estimate at current land alone prices the sites worth 35 to 40 million pounds as an assett , minimum

Bramall Lane is worth £4m / acre!?

You're sure you haven't added a zero there BTL I know you're optimistic but....

 

[Sean Thornton]

Leave him, he's firmly in his element.

I got talking to him about the accounts once. I shan't do it again.

Thank God. Like platting fog it was

 

[Sean Thornton]

chelsea , villa middlesborough
any club
the owners hold the deeds
Ill make it clear for the real simpletons check
mccabe doesnt need protecting , hes been ignoring stupid people for years
can tell we drew a home game
mccabe getting accused of screwing the club again, its sooooo predictable

Because of the Scarborough majority shareholding in SU Ltd and that company once owning the football club then he's always effectively owned the ground.