SUFC as a business ?

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What does that mean, Sean? Seriously, I've no idea.

Simply the club can make that amount in taxable profits before it would pay any Corporation tax. Only a Premiership return would make anything like that happen. So.......
 



Because of the Scarborough majority shareholding in SU Ltd and that company once owning the football club then he's always effectively owned the ground.
quite right too
if anyone buys any sort of property they own it, mccabe bought it , ergo he owns it
till someone else buys it off him
why oh why do some people put this across as being devious in any way

its baffling
 
Mystifying isn't it? Why would someone be suspicious of a property development company owning land that by your own calculations makes the place worth more than Barcelona?
 
I would like help from the truly ITK on these thoughts :

The assets of a football Club are usually its Ground and its long Contracts with attractive players , both categories of which have a market value if sold.

Lots of Clubs our size have sold the inner city (valuable) land/ground on which they sat , which has financed the building of soulless new stadia on the barren edges of their towns , plus a few new players.
Am I correct in thinking we can't do this because of the Prince deal - which cleared our monetary debt to McCabe by giving McCabe the freehold of Bramall Lane ?
So we as a Club don't have our ground as an asset ? McCabe has it and we are just tenants who have to pay rent ? And when McCabe checks out for good , the freehold of our beloved home could end up anywhere his will & testimony sends it ?

And when you look at the players contracts we hold (apart from Brayford, Sharp & possibly Che) , they are not worth a hill of beans. A huge number of the contracts run out this June anyway, so are worthless. And those that don't are with players who are generally worthless - as shown by our inability to offload any of them , despite desperately wanting to reduce the squad.

So would I be correct in concluding that the entire Club , if valued by an accountant , is virtually worthless at the moment ?

If we made a trading profit , like a normal business , there would be some value in us "as a going concern" , even if the assets were worth nothing - but naturally , like any other Club outside the top half of the Premiership , we are loss-making , and so there is no value to chalk up there.

So why oh why oh why doesn't McCabe just LEAVE , if he is not prepared to put any more subsidy in ?

On my argument above , his stake in the Club (and the Prince's) is worth practically nothing , so he cannot expect anyone to pay him anything for it !
He has already got out of the Club the biggest asset worth having - the freehold !

So if he or his successors decide to redevelop the Lane as a retail park or flats , we have no home to sell to buy us a new home.

I would welcome informed comment or correction on the above points.

I feel that he should just give the other half of the Club to the Prince for £1 , if the Prince would bankroll some proper effort to get promoted (ie: new players fees / wages).

I have a multitude of fears which stem from our current business structure , but the worst is the disappearance of the Lane as my football home.

My other fears include such things as "why are we limping along the middle of the third division when a Saudi Prince is a co-owner ?". Surely the Prince is in it for the pay-off that promotion might bring ? So he knows , as any businessman , that you have to speculate to accumulate.

There is something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG with our Club , but I am insufficiently informed to know what it is , given that I rely on a local media (RS/Star) who have never heard of investigative/incisive journalism.

Many years ago (in the 80s) I was managing a £1m turnover business and I kept telling the owners there was too much cash in one particular current account.
Little did I know that they had identified my successor (someone's nephew) and the cash was going to be used for my severance package !

I get the feeling something similar is about to be done to me by the Blades - I can see it all going strangely wrong before my very eyes and I cannot for the life of me think why - but it's too mysterious to be innocent.

I got shot at a few years ago when I happened to talk to someone who worked with sports insolvency. He ran a report that suggested we were somewhere near the most at risk clubs. This was pre-prince I'll grant you but don't for one minute think that we are anything other than walking a knife edge.

McCabe means well and always has. I know he hurts badly every day we aren't successful but that doesn't get us promoted. He isn't a bad bloke but his decision making since we got relegated from the Premiership has been god awful. From appointments to sackings to just about everything in between he has got it bang wrong.

Good bloke, but I often wonder how he racked up a fortune unless he employs someone else to make his decisions for him?
 
the piece of land on the moor thats being rebuilt on cost 3 .8 million and that was for three quarters of an acre, before demolition began

extrapolating that its around 3 to 4 mill an acre
mccabe owns the deeds, he bought the club with the ground
I cant think of any football club whos owner doesnt own the ground , when the deeds are part of the deal
what bit of ownership is baffling


chelsea own their ground, well abramovich does
we are exactly the same

Do you really think the value of the land around the Moor is worth the same as off London Road? Looks around the ground. They don;t look like rich people to me!

Moor is prime Retail land in the heart of the city. Bramall Lane is likely residential and in a very not sought after area.
 
Do you really think the value of the land around the Moor is worth the same as off London Road? Looks around the ground. They don;t look like rich people to me!

Moor is prime Retail land in the heart of the city. Bramall Lane is likely residential and in a very not sought after area.
anything within the parking restriction would fetch nearly the same
and that was bought 3 years ago when prices were lower ,
what about Ecclesall road , are they cheap and nasty
be nearly all new student accomodation around there soon
posted a house on shoreham st that sold for 200k
Sheffield sold its first million pound apartment 2 years ago
 
anything within the parking restriction would fetch nearly the same
and that was bought 3 years ago when prices were lower ,
what about Ecclesall road , are they cheap and nasty
be nearly all new student accomodation around there soon
posted a house on shoreham st that sold for 200k
Sheffield sold its first million pound apartment 2 years ago

BTL I admire your spirit & optimism on here, but you're way of the mark with this. BDTBL is in a tertiary market location - "prime" it is not.
 
Most of our losses are the £2.5m pa interest payments AT 10% pa on presumably £25m of debt to McCabe.

But I thought he had written off these loans as part of the Prince deal ?

The most I can get for my savings is 3%.

No wonder our Kevin is clinging like a limpet - where else could he get 10% on his money ?

SUFC is a nice little earner for him.

If he wasn't charging us such a high rate of interest , we could presumably afford the wages of better quality players (and don't give me the scmp crap).

Why doesn't he waive the interest on his loans for say 2 years which might help us along the road to success, which in turn would ultimately benefit him ?

Ps , did we really spend the £25m from Wet Sham and the £10m from the 2 Kyle's on wages ?
 
SUFC as a business is a bit like a company starting up and deciding to make and sell star jumpers and oxford bags or skateboards or something.
 
No time to read the full thread, sorry if I'm not adding value.

My take on the situation is that KM wants to keep his 50pc share so that he can sell his share when they have more value I.e. when we are in the Prem League. Hanging in there also satisfies his responsibility as a Blade to check out the new owner's approach and motives. If he were to sell now it would be at today's values.

No football club makes money outside the Prem surely. Why all these foreign owners want to be in there has much to do with ego and international status etc and perhaps a bit of money laundering thrown into the mix. As much a marketing/ recognition objective as much as anything.

As always United's script beggars belief. Only we could welcome a Saudi prince just before the oil price hits a thirty year low!! I know he's in paper but the oil price does matter!
 
Most of our losses are the £2.5m pa interest payments AT 10% pa on presumably £25m of debt to McCabe.

But I thought he had written off these loans as part of the Prince deal ?

The most I can get for my savings is 3%.

No wonder our Kevin is clinging like a limpet - where else could he get 10% on his money ?

SUFC is a nice little earner for him.

If he wasn't charging us such a high rate of interest , we could presumably afford the wages of better quality players (and don't give me the scmp crap).

Why doesn't he waive the interest on his loans for say 2 years which might help us along the road to success, which in turn would ultimately benefit him ?

Ps , did we really spend the £25m from Wet Sham and the £10m from the 2 Kyle's on wages ?


No they aren't. Which makes the rest of your post irrelevant.
 



They are the Sheffield United Ltd accounts. Not the football club.

You can get a copy of Blades Leisure Ltd which owns the football club AND the Sheffield United Football Club Ltd from Companies House for free.

Sheffield United Ltd holds the groundc etc which was transferred out of the football club with an equivalent amount of debt.

The football club paid under £300,000 in interest to related businesses etc in 2015 on loans which at the balance sheet date had all been paid off.
 
They are the Sheffield United Ltd accounts. Not the football club.

You can get a copy of Blades Leisure Ltd which owns the football club AND the Sheffield United Football Club Ltd from Companies House for free.

Sheffield United Ltd holds the groundc etc which was transferred out of the football club with an equivalent amount of debt.

The football club paid under £300,000 in interest to related businesses etc in 2015 on loans which at the balance sheet date had all been paid off.

I may be utterly confused, but is the structure this:

Blades Leisure owns 2 subsidiary companies - SU Ltd and SUFC Ltd. The former is the operational football club and the latter is essentially a property company that owns the ground. The latter is the one that has paid £2.5m in interest.

If that is right, who is the interest paid to is, I think, the question people are getting at.
 
I may be utterly confused, but is the structure this:

Blades Leisure owns 2 subsidiary companies - SU Ltd and SUFC Ltd. The former is the operational football club and the latter is essentially a property company that
Ok those of you interested in this stuff, I'll summarise the ownership structure.

Sheffield United Ltd (owned and controlled by McCabe + 2 sons) owns 50% of a company called Blades Leisure, the other 50% is owned by a Company called UTB LLC (The Prince).

Blades Leisure in turn owns 4 companies SUFC Ltd (not to be confused with SU Ltd above, a totally different Co), Sheff Utd conference & Events Ltd, Premier Security & Events Ltd & Premier Health & Safety Solutions Ltd.

SUFC Ltd is the football club and in the 12 mths to June 14 had a turnover of £10.5m and recorded a loss of £3.5m. The ground that (obviously) the club plays at is not owned by the club but by SU Ltd (McCabes Company) - views?

The only assets (ha!) the football club has are the players registrations.

Back to SU Ltd (McCabes Company) only has a turnover of £129k this is the rent it charges the football club for playing on the ground that it (the football club) doesn't own. Also SU Ltd pays £1.7m in interest on loans, loans to ?

The Prince - he owns 50% of Blades Leisure (which owns the football club that has no assets or ground!) actually owns 50% of very little.
 

Thanks for that.

I think the bottom line is that McCabe has always owned the physical assets of SUFC in one form or another and thus could effectively close down the club any moment he chose.
 
I may be utterly confused, but is the structure this:

Blades Leisure owns 2 subsidiary companies - SU Ltd and SUFC Ltd. The former is the operational football club and the latter is essentially a property company that owns the ground. The latter is the one that has paid £2.5m in interest.

If that is right, who is the interest paid to is, I think, the question people are getting at.

SU Ltd owns half of BL Ltd HRH owns the other half of BL Ltd.

BL Ltd owns SUFC Ltd.

The interest is paid by SU Ltd, who collects the ground rent.

None of that £2.5 million interest is paid by SUFC Ltd. Why would the Prince be paying interest on someone else's debts from years before his involvement?
 
Thanks for that.

I think the bottom line is that McCabe has always owned the physical assets of SUFC in one form or another and thus could effectively close down the club any moment he chose.
An unlikely scenario, what I believe K Mac has to do is take a view on his investment, has he realistic expectations of getting back what he's put in, given where we are etc.
 
As has been said many times in the past, due to his majority shareholding in SU Ltd ( formerly the Plc) McCabe has effectively owned the ground since he bought the whole shebang.
 
There's fuck all I can do about it. I'm just into football. I run my own business, when I want a break from it I come on here to read about football. Couldn't give two shits about balance sheets, P&L accounts, who owns the fucking stadium any more. Can't change any of it.
And I'm finding it hard to distinguish which of the new posters are really disaffected Blades and which ones are from the other side.
you will give a shit when we really go down the shitter mate. this is what is behind the mess the club is in. the booth analogy is a really good one IMO
 
Thanks for that.

I think the bottom line is that McCabe has always owned the physical assets of SUFC in one form or another and thus could effectively close down the club any moment he chose.


Yes, apart from the fact that he would be by far the biggest financial loser if he did.
 
SU Ltd owns half of BL Ltd HRH owns the other half of BL Ltd.

BL Ltd owns SUFC Ltd.

The interest is paid by SU Ltd, who collects the ground rent.

None of that £2.5 million interest is paid by SUFC Ltd. Why would the Prince be paying interest on someone else's debts from years before his involvement?

Thanks.

So essentially SU Ltd is McCabe whilst BL Ltd is MCabe/The Prince

So MCabe (with his SU Ltd hat on) is paying £2.5million interest to whom? The banks?
 
Yes, apart from the fact that he would be by far the biggest financial loser if he did.

Absolutely, but is it not the case that the only scenarios in which McCabe will ever get any money back is if

(a) He finds some other very rich person who fancies an executive toy to buy him out; or
(b) United get to the PL
 



Why is the ground under SU Ltd and not SUFC Ltd and thus BL Ltd with the other owner?

That's what I'd like to know.
 

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