Brayford - defending

[zablade]

I think he will be sold in the summer if we don't get up, I am pretty sure he would have been sold last summer if he hadn't been injured.

Clough and Brannigan persuaded the football dunces on the board that it was the best chance of promotion last season and rolled the £2 million dice on it and came up with a one.

I rate him as an attacking full back but we can't carry those wages and strengthen in other vital areas whilst at this level, promotion or bust if we want him to remain here,

 

[Fiery Blade]

Unfortunately we are in the league where every player has a week point because if Brayford could defend then he would be in the premier league. Like if Sharp was fast or a bit taller, Premier league. If Sammon could head the ball, Premier League. If Basham could pass, Premier League. JCR could cross, top championship team.

So by that measure If Collins could defend - League 2 or Conference !

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Unfortunately we are in the league where every player has a week point because if Brayford could defend then he would be in the premier league. Like if Sharp was fast or a bit taller, Premier league. If Sammon could head the ball, Premier League. If Basham could pass, Premier League. JCR could cross, top championship team.

You are of course correct - but shouldn't the FIRST requisite of a defender is to be able to defend?

Hence our problem for donkeys years.

UTB

 

[Ashtonsmashton]

You are of course correct - but shouldn't the FIRST requisite of a defender is to be able to defend?

Hence our problem for donkeys years.

UTB

Yes but, he's still capable at defend however does have a massive problem of not going into a tackle, lack of confidence?

 

[Jehovah]

I'm beginning to think that because his hair flops about at such intensity when he runs, it's making him look faster than he actually is.

 

[RMBlade]

at Old Trafford when Brayford was beaten by Depay

Depay is terrible too... Brayford out

 

[Woodwardfan]

A full back needs support from the midfielder in front of him as well as his right sided central defender. It's a team game and Brayford does cover the centre on occasions but not as regularly as out and out defenders who have that defensive instinct such as Alcock for example.

Walker and Naughton were natural defenders. Lowton was not quite as good but probably better than Brayford.

Flynn's a good right back but always exposed in t he air. Freeman, Basham, Harris and McFadzean all have frailties at full back. K.Wallace does well for his age and experience.

 

[sitwell]

A couple of goals come from the right hand side and now our best player isn't good enough. Cant believe what I see on here sometimes .Look at our record before and after Brayford came back after over 6 months out.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Collins and McEveley have been better than Brayford and Edgar in recent weeks, it hardly ever gets mentioned though.

Thought Brayford and Edgar were different class against Bradford (along with Coutts and Sharp). But I agree in the last couple of games, Collins and McEveley have been more solid (though Brayford offers so much more than any going forward).

 

[1danewhitehouse]

So by that measure If Collins could defend - League 2 or Conference !

Collins wins the vast majority of his headers chipping in with a few in the opposition box. In terms of aerial ability, he is possibly our best player. His weaknesses are dealing with players who can run at him with pace and agility.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You are of course correct - but shouldn't the FIRST requisite of a defender is to be able to defend?

Hence our problem for donkeys years.

UTB

Don’t think it’s as simple as that. Kyle Walker and Naughton were both full backs who were better going forward than they were defensively and we’d love to have both back. Same with Lowton. McMahon could defend as could Matt Hill (both part of a defence with Collins, Maguire and Long that kept loads of clean sheets in Wilson’s second season). Don’t recall them being hailed as great full backs.


The modern full back’s game is about much more than defending. It of course depends on the team set up though. Brayford and Coutts down the right look a real partnership. I don’t see that developing with McEveley and Woolford as McEveley doesn’t have the legs to get up and down like Brayford. For that reason, I think JCR might be a better option ahead of McEveley leaving him to primarily defend as JCR is a winger who just gets his head down and runs at defenders.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Thought Brayford and Edgar were different class against Bradford (along with Coutts and Sharp). But I agree in the last couple of games, Collins and McEveley have been more solid (though Brayford offers so much more than any going forward).

Also I don't recall McEveley ever getting as far forwards as he did for the second on Tuesday - though he did make a run and drag a defender away, for one of Billy's goals at the Lane (Bradford).

Obviously Tuesday we were chasing but he really bombed on, I imagine with licence from the manager and inspiration from the Beard.

Defenders are not really pure defenders any more, they need more to their game, and the Beard has got plenty.

 

[Thorpy]

I've not said he isn't one of our best footballers.

For what he cost we're entitled to expect more from him - whether he runs himself into the ground or not.

There's no doubt whatsoever that a large percentage of our fans see what they want to see with Brayford, more so than with any other player.

i understand what you are saying but john brayford is one cog in uniteds defence, we will not see his true performance until all players in the defence stat to defend as a unit instead of 4 individuals who dont know or trust each other. the answer for me is not to blame one player because he happens to have cost more than the others but to blame the defence all together, 2 more reliable defenders would make a great difference

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Brayford's a total fucking ledg. If he falls slightly short now & then or makes a mistake or two along the journey, well... so what? The pluses outweigh the minuses a thousand times over.

The guy's an immense credit to this club.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

He's a better defender than Kyle Walker

The modern day right back is more about going forward than defending but I agree with ftpe above, he looks worse when we're defending as a team as badly as we are on occasions.

Brayford was at fault for numerous goals this season and 2/3 when we played Hull at Wembley, but hey he's the fan favourite so we'll forget about them.

Kyle Walker isn't the best defender but his blistering speed often means you have to beat him more than once to actually get away from him, which is unlikely, he's been brilliant this year.

 

[wizadry]

Also I don't recall McEveley ever getting as far forwards as he did for the second on Tuesday - though he did make a run and drag a defender away, for one of Billy's goals at the Lane (Bradford).

Obviously Tuesday we were chasing but he really bombed on, I imagine with licence from the manager and inspiration from the Beard.

Defenders are not really pure defenders any more, they need more to their game, and the Beard has got plenty.

A defender has to first of all defend, then he can do the other bits. Brayford can do the other bits but can't do the defensive duties anywhere near aswell and this is why he should play higher up the pitch.

 

[wizadry]

Brayford's a total fucking ledg. If he falls slightly short now & then or makes a mistake or two along the journey, well... so what? The pluses outweigh the minuses a thousand times over.

The guy's an immense credit to this club.

He might be a ledgend, Alf but i can assure you he didn't get that status due to his defensive capabilities.

 

[mosbolad]

Brayford's a total fucking ledg. If he falls slightly short now & then or makes a mistake or two along the journey, well... so what? The pluses outweigh the minuses a thousand times over.

The guy's an immense credit to this club.

That's all very well Alfreton but would he be such a 'ledg' if he didn't have the beard and that fancy English surname?

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

That's all very well Alfreton but would he be such a 'ledg' if he didn't have the beard and that fancy English surname?

DeBeardolamo

 

[Caseh]

I don't think he is that bad defensively, it's by no means his best attribute but it certainly isn't a huge weakness. A full back that is a completely solid defender, and not in the top 10 teams in the world, is a centre half being played out of position.

 

[blade too long]

Im sorry. I thought we were in league one
It seems though that the level of defensive play required is that of Gary Neville at his best
The main reason most teams are in this league is the defenders get beaten more than those in the prem

So Brayford got shown a clean pair of heels by a 30m pound player , and occasionally get beat in league one
The level some talk about as the required level would cost us about 8 million quid

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Brayford was at fault for numerous goals this season and 2/3 when we played Hull at Wembley, but hey he's the fan favourite so we'll forget about them.

Numerous of the 8 we've conceded with him in the team this season you mean

 

[sitwell]

Brayford came in after Shrewsbury when we were conceding loads ,and we then conceded 2 in 5 games ,coincidence ?
Suppose you could also say Baxter ,came off at half time against Shewsbury when we had conceded 3 and then didn't play as we conceded 6 in 7 games ,he comes back in and we concede 3. Baxter bad or Brayford good ?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Brayford came in after Shrewsbury when we were conceding loads ,and we then conceded 2 in 5 games ,coincidence ?
Suppose you could also say Baxter ,came off at half time against Shewsbury when we had conceded 3 and then didn't play as we conceded 6 in 7 games ,he comes back in and we concede 3. Baxter bad or Brayford good ?

Everyone has their agendas Sitters

 

[sitwell]

They are the cold facts though.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Don’t think it’s as simple as that. Kyle Walker and Naughton were both full backs who were better going forward than they were defensively and we’d love to have both back. Same with Lowton. McMahon could defend as could Matt Hill (both part of a defence with Collins, Maguire and Long that kept loads of clean sheets in Wilson’s second season). Don’t recall them being hailed as great full backs.


The modern full back’s game is about much more than defending. It of course depends on the team set up though. Brayford and Coutts down the right look a real partnership. I don’t see that developing with McEveley and Woolford as McEveley doesn’t have the legs to get up and down like Brayford. For that reason, I think JCR might be a better option ahead of McEveley leaving him to primarily defend as JCR is a winger who just gets his head down and runs at defenders.

I don't disagree about a full backs game being more than defending - but:

for full backs to push on, a team HAS to rely on the 2 x CH being solid, and being able to "hold up" play if teams break on you and let other defenders/midfield get back - and quickly. We do not have those attributes in players and as we stand, considering everything else, your defenders should be abler to primarily defend. Kyle Walker is the ideal full back these days - but Spurs have decent centre halves who can as a pair, defend very well when broke on.

We live with a poor combination at CH - Morgs and Kilgallon complimented each other perfectly and I would hope Adkins sees the need to sort this out. 2 x CH's would make Brayford much better.

It is a team dilemma as much as Brayford.

I agree with sitters - Brayford and Coutts make a great combination and tbh, both have look ok in the main in the past few weeks when played together.

UTB

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I don't disagree about a full backs game being more than defending - but:

for full backs to push on, a team HAS to rely on the 2 x CH being solid, and being able to "hold up" play if teams break on you and let other defenders/midfield get back - and quickly. We do not have those attributes in players and as we stand, considering everything else, your defenders should be abler to primarily defend. Kyle Walker is the ideal full back these days - but Spurs have decent centre halves who can as a pair, defend very well when broke on.

We live with a poor combination at CH - Morgs and Kilgallon complimented each other perfectly and I would hope Adkins sees the need to sort this out. 2 x CH's would make Brayford much better.

It is a team dilemma as much as Brayford.

I agree with sitters - Brayford and Coutts make a great combination and tbh, both have look ok in the main in the past few weeks when played together.

UTB

Agree with a lot of that but would say as much as the CB's holding up counter-attacks, the defensive midfielder is vital. Hammond has some good qualities but his lack of pace and acceleration means he gets skinned a lot and hinders us in those scenarios (Shrewsbury's 4th goal a classic example).

 

[1danewhitehouse]

He might be a ledgend, Alf but i can assure you he didn't get that status due to his defensive capabilities.

You say that but his status comes largely from our great run under Clough in 2014 which was all about keeping clean sheets and he was part of that defence. But he also offered plenty going forward. He and Sharp are our only 2 players that are anything like “complete” rather than having one or 2 good attributes along with some major weaknesses. Brayford might not be quite as good defensively as he is going forward but does not have any massive weaknesses in his game.

 

[BushBlade]

I don't disagree about a full backs game being more than defending - but:

for full backs to push on, a team HAS to rely on the 2 x CH being solid, and being able to "hold up" play if teams break on you and let other defenders/midfield get back - and quickly. We do not have those attributes in players and as we stand, considering everything else, your defenders should be abler to primarily defend. Kyle Walker is the ideal full back these days - but Spurs have decent centre halves who can as a pair, defend very well when broke on.

We live with a poor combination at CH - Morgs and Kilgallon complimented each other perfectly and I would hope Adkins sees the need to sort this out. 2 x CH's would make Brayford much better.

It is a team dilemma as much as Brayford.

I agree with sitters - Brayford and Coutts make a great combination and tbh, both have look ok in the main in the past few weeks when played together.

UTB

Agree, which is why when you play with one up it allows you to have a sitting midfielder in the 'Makele' role.
However the problem with that is its hard to get a lone striker who is also a prolific scorer at this level which means you have to have goal scorers throughout the team.
Or you end up like we did under Clough, which most people found boring.
I still suspect Adkins was told to liven us up a bit and play more entertaining football which he's tried to do by playing more than one striker but it does put more demands on the defence.
Next season his brief has to 'get us up'. Style of play, developing youth etc has to be secondary, more or less ignored.

We had the chance four years ago, three years ago, two years ago to build a team of exiting young players who play a modern style of possession based football but for various reasons that have been discussed ad infinitum, we haven't and patience amongst the support is wearing very thin.
Just get us up Nige or you will be next years' scapegoat for the board's failings.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Agree with a lot of that but would say as much as the CB's holding up counter-attacks, the defensive midfielder is vital. Hammond has some good qualities but his lack of pace and acceleration means he gets skinned a lot and hinders us in those scenarios (Shrewsbury's 4th goal a classic example).

Both Hammond and Brayford have good attributes and someone else has suggested a mass clear out and keep the best.

I just feel at present we are signing certain players on lots of wages and dread to think what Hammond would want - even at 10K it is a lot.

Are we prepared to pay 10K for a leader - surely there are others about.

Now Hammond is a lot fitter, he looks a good a decent player and Brayford is getting fitter too.

What it all shows is the enormous dilemma Adkins has - he needs to cull and needs to bring in some quality - whilst we continue to struggle in the division.

I don't envy his task, but he certainly has my support.

UTB