The "foul"

[Cherry Street]

he gets tagged a little bit...stays on his feet if you pause it right as he slides past him..then kicks his heels up and dives for the effect!! was a way too soft penalty.

"Da": it sounds like he, like everybody else, thought it was a dive until he saw the slow-motion replay. Stonewall, if completely undeserved.

 

[derryblade]

We didn't deserve to lose the game that late and by a penalty but, I watched it in real time numerous replays and it's a nailed on penalty, slide in studs raised made contact with the players left leg what's to argue about. I would argue all day long about the penalty Liverpool got with the tackle on Gerrard by Morgan deemed he had intended to take him out even though he made no contact.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

It's a penalty, but the theatrical fall could lead some refs to not give it (think Adams earlier this season). No complaints from me, but it would have been nice for that to have not been given as some sort of payback for the 2007 Shelton incident – in which he most certainly didn't fall theatrically, he was just blatantly fouled.

 

[Cherry Street]

However much it irritates me, and however much I despise that club/franchise and all that it stands for, and however much it completely played into their fortunate, underperforming, prima donna hands, it was a penalty. Hammond completely missed the ball and made contact with his shin. The level of contact is irrelevant, it's where it is that counts, and it was on Depay's trailing leg, and it effectively brought him down. Of course it's sickening: it's a flamboyant, pathetic fall, but it's a fall, and not a dive. Whilst it looks like events conspired against us, looking at the decision itself, objectively, you can't give any other decision.

 

[sothall blade]

minimal contact, their player made the most of it. Referee couldn't wait to give it

Just seen it again, there was contact, just enough to give it I reckon

So hammond did get the man not the ball ? = penatly ! we need to learn these sort of lessons and stop being so nice !

 

[sothall blade]

It's a penalty, but the theatrical fall could lead some refs to not give it (think Adams earlier this season). No complaints from me, but it would have been nice for that to have not been given as some sort of payback for the 2007 Shelton incident – in which he most certainly didn't fall theatrically, he was just blatantly fouled.

Theatrical yes, but not half as bad as this one

 

[Cherry Street]

Theatrical yes, but not half as bad as this one

Watching this triggers me every damn time.

 

[sothall blade]

Watching this triggers me every damn time.

After that pathetic show, i was waiting to see if their bench did this

 

[Cherry Street]

After that pathetic show, i was waiting to see if their bench did this
View attachment 15392

And the Academy Award goes to...

 

[JJBlade]

I think this is a bleak day for us - Man. Utd were there for the taking had our subs been used to take the game to them in the second-half, we were a pale shadow of Clough's cup teams.

(Oh and JJ. I thought Memphis's messing about with his shin pad and his socks to prove some sort of point about the penalty was Am Dram twattery - he protesteth too much for anyone to be fooled by it)

You may be right vorpal.
But he was caught.
He made a right meal out of it so as to make sure he won the penalty, but it was a foul.

On the issue of Man Utd being there for the taking I agree, we had very little to offer going forward but you could almost sense the worry in them on the odd occasion when we did get into decent positions.
That's the difference between us and say Gillingham or Walsall.
Gillingham and Walsall would have done exactly the same as us but then really had a go at them when they got the odd chance to break. We didn't and so eventually lost

 

[curtisblades]

It was definitely a penalty, Hammond caught Depay and he made a meal of it, exactly as you would expect from the majority of professionals in the modern game. However, did Hammond need to make that challenge? Was it worth the risk? Reminded me of John Stones' challenge against Stoke a couple of weeks ago, as he forced the referee into making a decision.

 

[vorpal blade]

Yes, we do agree on that JJ !

I thought that Adams or Cambell-Rice (or both) would have also been able to keep the ball up and would have greatly relieved the pressure on the Blades defence. The ball just kept bouncing back towards our goal because none of our forwards or midfield could hold onto the ball at all.

There was no relief, in the end it told.


we could have won that game. I know why Adkins was reluctant to change the system & go for goal - but I wish he hadn't been so scared. Then again he didn't witness Warnock's timid approach to away games in the Premier League did he?

In the end defence gets you nowhere which is another name for League 1.

 

[Slug]

Yes Hammond caught him, but the ridiculous acrobatics that followed it were much worse for me and the two should cancel eachother out. In no way should we be encouraging and rewarding such blatant simulation (cheating) as that

 

[Kenilworth]

Interesting obs !!!

First of all Is there contact ? Yes.

Which adjective BEST describes said contact :

1. Grazed shine pads.
2. Our lad near decapitates their lads leg
3. Somewhere in between.

Option 1 gets my vote here.

Now, if we can agree on this (which I doubt), then the ref is gonna have to go out with 3 whistles every game for fear of wearing one out, having blown up every 20 seconds every time opposing players even challenge for the ball. 200 fouls a game , 18 yellows and 6 reds in every single match that's played.

Is that what people want to pay £50 to see ??!

Depays elaborate overreaction seals it for me. Hammonds angle of approach when contact is made is such that his left leg SHOULD go out from underneath him and to his left. It doesn't. It goes up in the air behind him as does, for no obvious reason, his right leg in what could best be described as a back flip kangaroo kick (with pike !).

The combination of minimal contact (rather than major contact) combined with Depays over elaborate body movement that is OBVIOUSLY a conscience reaction on his part to over emphasise the minimal contact made, is a powerful argument that the awarding of the penalty was, in all probability, soft.

BBC "expert' analysis has also suggested this to be the case.

If you can't see this, then that's your business.

UTB

There seems to be an acceptance that as long as any contact is made the possibility of simulation is out of the question. I'm not sure that is an acceptable position.

Many of the laws of the game are there to prevent people taking action to achieve an unfair advantage, for example, holding an opponents shirt, standing in an offside position when the ball is played forward, obstructing and opponent if they are running past to you etc. How is over exaggerating a minimal level of contact any less consistent with this ethos? It's an attempt to pervert a situation to one's advantage.

If Depay had fallen consistent with his left leg being prevented from moving and fallen with his right side going down first then you can genuinely conclude that the contact impeded him. As it was the swan dive is just as deplorable as a defender pulling and attacker back by the shirt if they have got goal side of them.

Che Adams has fallen foul of the reverse of this sort of decision at least three times this season to my knowledge. Is it the fact that Che over emphasised the contact so it wasn't a foul? Is it that Che was less skilled than Depay and couldn't make it look as "professional"? Is it that Manc U were supposed to win so it was inneviable? It's not home advantage that is the key factor, surely, since at least two of Che's situations have been at Bramall Lane.
Where is the consistency in be application of the laws of the game?
I don't see this sort of stuff evening itself out where we are involved.

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

He's a tart!!
We're going to end up watching football looking more like netball the way its going, no contact allowed whatsoever.

Do these players go into training and practice their diving technique? The mindset of these players as they make a run towards the box seems to be more weighted into instinctive thoughts of/looking for 'oh if he touches me or sticks a leg out i'm going down' rather than 'this is a good attacking position i'm in here so i'll stay on my feet and create a chance for someone or look for a clear shot'.

 

[judge]

because it wasn't careless, reckless or excessively forceful.

Memphis made sure that he got 'kicked' by Hammond, it was not the other way about.

So he carefully and deliberately fouled him with minimal force
Hmm should have given a penalty to us then

 

[vorpal blade]

I don't understand Judge - gallic shrug emoticon :{(

 

[judge]

There seems to be an acceptance that as long as any contact is made the possibility of simulation is out of the question. I'm not sure that is an acceptable position.

Many of the laws of the game are there to prevent people taking action to achieve an unfair advantage, for example, holding an opponents shirt, standing in an offside position when the ball is played forward, obstructing and opponent if they are running past to you etc. How is over exaggerating a minimal level of contact any less consistent with this ethos? It's an attempt to pervert a situation to one's advantage.

If Depay had fallen consistent with his left leg being prevented from moving and fallen with his right side going down first then you can genuinely conclude that the contact impeded him. As it was the swan dive is just as deplorable as a defender pulling and attacker back by the shirt if they have got goal side of them.

Che Adams has fallen foul of the reverse of this sort of decision at least three times this season to my knowledge. Is it the fact that Che over emphasised the contact so it wasn't a foul? Is it that Che was less skilled than Depay and couldn't make it look as "professional"? Is it that Manc U were supposed to win so it was inneviable? It's not home advantage that is the key factor, surely, since at least two of Che's situations have been at Bramall Lane.
Where is the consistency in be application of the laws of the game?
I don't see this sort of stuff evening itself out where we are involved.

Have you not watched football for the last ten years
Switch on an el classico it will blow your mind

 

[mosbolad]

No contact! Dive, all day every day........

Although this was a penalty and Hammond the 'offender'. I would still not attribute 'blame' to him as such as all the lads worked their socks off and it was just an unfortunate football incident. So hope we'd hold on though.

 

[Woodwardfan]

You may be right vorpal.
But he was caught.
He made a right meal out of it so as to make sure he won the penalty, but it was a foul.

On the issue of Man Utd being there for the taking I agree, we had very little to offer going forward but you could almost sense the worry in them on the odd occasion when we did get into decent positions.
That's the difference between us and say Gillingham or Walsall.
Gillingham and Walsall would have done exactly the same as us but then really had a go at them when they got the odd chance to break. We didn't and so eventually lost

We've no pace or indeed players with mobility in midfield.

 

[sothall blade]

View attachment 15393

He's a tart!!
We're going to end up watching football looking more like netball the way its going, no contact allowed whatsoever.

Do these players go into training and practice their diving technique? The mindset of these players as they make a run towards the box seems to be more weighted into instinctive thoughts of/looking for 'oh if he touches me or sticks a leg out i'm going down' rather than 'this is a good attacking position i'm in here so i'll stay on my feet and create a chance for someone or look for a clear shot'.

Said it before JR,yet another foreign player goes to ground easily (although IMO it was a penalty) its bread into them and part of their game,you only have to look at the italians,masters at it,one of the reasons england never do anything in big tournaments,because we dont play the system they do

 

[sothall blade]

No contact! Dive, all day every day........

Although this was a penalty and Hammond the 'offender'. I would still not attribute 'blame' to him as such as all the lads worked their socks off and it was just an unfortunate football incident. So hope we'd hold on though.

No case to answer my lord

 

[Kenilworth]

Have you not watched football for the last ten years
Switch on an el classico it will blow your mind

Of course not, you divvy

I've been watching Sheffield United!

 

[Bladesway]

From the Mail on Sunday report:

'Depay had dramatically spun up in the air after contact from the Blades defender and replays show he had been caught on the shin. Certainly referee Jon Moss had no doubts.'

and...

'Slippery conditions were not helpful for either side. It did make for some terrific sliding tackles, though, and one from David Edgar dumped Herrera on his backside. Moss waved play on, surely to the delight of the traditionalists.'

So one challenge didn't merit a free kick and 'delighted the traditionalists'. The other? Deep into added time, in the penalty area and in front of the Stretford End. No contest.

So what are you saying?

 

[vorpal blade]

As anyone who just watched Spurs v Leicester has just witnessed, the refs just can't wait to give penalties - they love it, it makes them look all decisive and powerful - Howard Webb had a bad case of this syndrome.

 

[Wapping Blade]

As anyone who just watched Spurs v Leicester has just witnessed, the refs just can't wait to give penalties - they love it, it makes them look all decisive and powerful - Howard Webb had a bad case of this syndrome.

Apart from the one Scunny should have had.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Said it before JR,yet another foreign player goes to ground easily (although IMO it was a penalty) its bread into them and part of their game,you only have to look at the italians,masters at it,one of the reasons england never do anything in big tournaments,because we dont play the system they do

There's no shortage of diving English bastards you know.

 

[grafikhaus]

So what are you saying?

I'd have thought it was pretty obvious what I was saying but just for you, given the capricious nature of football anybody saying a penalty is '100%' is being pretty foolish. It depends on many factors - who is the ref., who is the team claiming the penalty, where on the pitch (just for the sake of argument, let's say 'bang in front of the Stretford End ), at what stage of the match is it etc. etc.

This Third round has been littered with anomalies - most of which tend to favour the bigger sides. The ref. at West Brom, having added 5 minutes on, conjured up an extra minute in which the Baggies equalised v Bristol City and so on.

This afternoon Spurs were trailing Leicester with a couple of minutes left. The ball was in the area, well into the corner of the pitch and completely out of the line of the refs. sight. Only a few Spurs fans could be seen to appeal for a penalty for a ball that obviously flicked up onto the hand of the turning Nathan Dyer (a hand that was completely obscured from the ref. and the assistant on that side who was in the other half). Deliberate hand to ball? Not in a million years but, as vorpal blade says,some refs. cannot wait to give a penalty. For some teams.

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

Said it before JR,yet another foreign player goes to ground easily (although IMO it was a penalty) its bread into them and part of their game,you only have to look at the italians,masters at it,one of the reasons england never do anything in big tournaments,because we dont play the system they do

England don't play to their strengths or pick the right players on form who deserve to be in there anyway but yes I agree with you on the whole there..

we don't have to copy what the foreign players have bred into their game, certainly not the bad gamesmanship side of it like the diving and so on...I'm all for players improving their technique, movement, touch and playing with both feet but the rest of it.. meh!

 

[Darthblade]

yep, definite penalty

Take note Blades wingers, if you run past a man at pace they might foul you in the area

What are wingers ...... and what is this "pace" thing ?

UTB & FTP