FA investigate racism

[Darthblade]

I don't know for sure, nobody does. But I'd say it's safe to conclude the vast, vast majority don't support them. Would you agree?

I have absolutely no idea, because that would depend on how you define "supporting" ISIS.

It could be with financial donations, by travelling to fight with them, by spreading their word, by helping indoctrinate young people, by not reporting suspicious activity to the authorities, or by simply looking the other way ......

So its therefore safe to say that you don't have a clue either ....

UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Can everyone please be very careful at the Peterborough game tomorrow.

do NOT chant "Town full of posh" - might upset quite a few

UTB

In fact ..... given that the world media and the scrupulously un-biased local media ( ) will be examining everything we say and do with a microscope, hoping for some minor indiscretion which can be made into a biblical style event .......

It may therefore be better if we all discard our traditional football shirts and attend wearing sack-cloth robes and beating ourselves with birch twigs to drive out the demons within us !!

We should all obviously abstain from any chanting of any sort, but clap politely in the event of the opposition fabricating a good piece of play, or in the event of any refereeing decision made ( good or bad).

Perhaps some banners extolling the virtues of the FA and Football league as magnificent organisations and pillars of society would also be appropriate ......

UTB & FTP

 

[UnitedBlade]

No it should be ....FA investigate chant that a minority of people found offensive but which in reality is no worse than chants heard up and down the country every week

The ground regulations forbid the use of bad language but even the players and the manager ignore that one .....

UTB & FTP

United, its stewards and the Police ignore loads of the regulations:
- bad language
- smoking
- throwing of objects (it'll be interesting to see if any Bradford fans actually are under scrutiny)
- standing
- I doubt they monitor websites where fans place photos (Foxy has probably got permission but the rest of us won't have)

However, once the media get hold of something they have to investigate. They have CCTV and are obliged to pass this to the Police if required.

Someone will get banned, I can't see any other avenue open to the club providing the CCTV and sound is fairly clear.

 

[Barney]

Many Asians aren't Muslims. Many Muslims aren't even Asian so your assumption that the chant was aimed at Bradford's Asian community shows exceptional prejudice on your part (unless there was a subsection of the chant specifying which bit of the town was full of ISIS). You're the one specifically labelling Asians as the likely ISIS supporters.

Explain how I'm showing prejudice. The vast majortity of the extremely small minority that flee to ISIS are Asian in race. That's a fact if I'm not mistaken. In other words, the majority of those travelling to support ISIS are of Asian background. Another fact. Therefore I'm making no assumptions, I'm just going off the facts.

 

[Barney]

Many Asians aren't Muslims. Many Muslims aren't even Asian so your assumption that the chant was aimed at Bradford's Asian community shows exceptional prejudice on your part (unless there was a subsection of the chant specifying which bit of the town was full of ISIS). You're the one specifically labelling Asians as the likely ISIS supporters.

Also, by that argument, everyone who has ever made an assumption that the Asian community are most at risk of radicalisation must also be showing prejudice?

 

[vorpal blade]

 

[super_pig]

No, but Islam is a race. And these chants were directed towards Bradford's Islam community, effectively tarnishing every member of that community with the brush of a very select few who have fled to a murderous group. You couldn't get closer to the definition of racism if you tried.

islam is not a race it is a religion. WuM

 

[Barney]

islam is not a race it is a religion. WuM

I've already corrected myself countless times on that. And that makes me a WUM, how? I made myself a promise never to be abusive on here. I must say it's proving a struggle.

 

[northsomersetblade]

islam is not a race it is a religion. WuM

The Ascot Gold Cup, that's a race

 

[Kev Gee]

No, but Islam is a race. And these chants were directed towards Bradford's Islam community, effectively tarnishing every member of that community with the brush of a very select few who have fled to a murderous group. You couldn't get closer to the definition of racism if you tried.

Islam is NOT a race.
Its an organised religion. Just like christianity or buddism.

 

[Barney]

Islam is NOT a race.
Its an organised religion. Just like christianity or buddism.

I HAVE ALREADY CORRECTED MYSELF ON THAT.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

In fact ..... given that the world media and the scrupulously un-biased local media ( ) will be examining everything we say and do with a microscope, hoping for some minor indiscretion which can be made into a biblical style event .......

It may therefore be better if we all discard our traditional football shirts and attend wearing sack-cloth robes and beating ourselves with birch twigs to drive out the demons within us !!

We should all obviously abstain from any chanting of any sort, but clap politely in the event of the opposition fabricating a good piece of play, or in the event of any refereeing decision made ( good or bad).

Perhaps some banners extolling the virtues of the FA and Football league as magnificent organisations and pillars of society would also be appropriate ......

UTB & FTP

We could do all that, or just ensure our fans don't sing racist songs aimed at the opposition fans and then try and defend it via the most pathetic of excuses.
At least the club seem to have done the right thing so far, just hope they follow it up with bans and show we don't accept any racial abuse at our club.
This defending and attempts to justify the actions of these morons is nearly getting as pathetic as the attacks on the girl Ched raped.

 

[Barney]

We could do all that, or just ensure our fans don't sing racist songs aimed at the opposition fans and then try and defend it via the most pathetic of excuses.
At least the club seem to have done the right thing so far, just hope they follow it up with bans and show we don't accept any racial abuse at our club.

It's taken me by surprise how many of our fans are willing to defend such behaviour. In fact, I can't believe it.

 

[YouFUMS]

In the interests on impartiality, and to show the FA that we have no prejudice, I suggest that said song; 'Town full of ISIS' is aimed at the Peterborough fans tomorrow, and at every visiting club from now on. Better still, lets ditch Annies song and have Gary Sinclair start us off with a bit of 'Guantanamera'.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

We could do all that, or just ensure our fans don't sing racist songs aimed at the opposition fans and then try and defend it via the most pathetic of excuses.
At least the club seem to have done the right thing so far, just hope they follow it up with bans and show we don't accept any racial abuse at our club.
This defending and attempts to justify the actions of these morons is nearly getting as pathetic as the attacks on the girl Ched raped.

The club had no option but to take the action it has after the ludicrous over-reaction and misrepresentation following the Bradford game. Hopefully common sense will prevail and the result will simply be a statement reminding fans what is expected.

 

[Ginger Gnome]

Explain how I'm showing prejudice. The vast majortity of the extremely small minority that flee to ISIS are Asian in race. That's a fact if I'm not mistaken. In other words, the majority of those travelling to support ISIS are of Asian background. Another fact. Therefore I'm making no assumptions, I'm just going off the facts.

It was a chant aimed at Bradford fans, you're singling out the Asian community, seems kind of unfair. You can prove anything with facts. FACT!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

The club had no option but to take the action it has after the ludicrous over-reaction and misrepresentation following the Bradford game. Hopefully common sense will prevail and the result will simply be a statement reminding fans what is expected.

Would have been better if they'd started the investigation straight after the game rather than catching up with the media. They've got to give out some bans for the chants even if they're not lifetime ones.

 

[WhiteHawk]

What are the chances of the same fucking neanderthals chanting something similiar tomorrow? Because in their stupid little minds "We're Sheffield United, we do what we want."

 

[metalblade]

It's taken me by surprise how many of our fans are willing to defend such behaviour. In fact, I can't believe it.

Where has anyone defended singing "A town full of ISIS" you attention seeking numpty ? You must really hate our club when you will do anything to post something negative, I'm only surprised you haven't said Adkins was the ringleader.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

What are the chances of the same fucking neanderthals chanting something similiar tomorrow? Because in their stupid little minds "We're Sheffield United, we do what we want."

Unfortunately quite high I'd suggest.

 

[vorpal blade]

What are the chances of the same fucking neanderthals chanting something similiar tomorrow? Because in their stupid little minds "We're Sheffield United, we do what we want."

Now that IS racist....FACT !

;]

 

[WhiteHawk]

Unfortunately quite high I'd suggest.

Yep, my thought too.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

So, by extension, no football club will be punished for the chanting of it's fans, until it has been established whether it was intentional or ironic or sarcastic? (here's me getting back into the minutiae again).

Why should anyone be sanctioned for anything till guilt is established - not alleged and/or assumed?

The alternative, as I see it, is to sanction just in case, in this case, it was racist. And I can't see that that is acceptable at all.

---

I don't particularly want to muddy the waters but (thinking out loud) why is it clear that the chants were racist but the cheers were not? If the chants are going to be taken at face value and sanctioned then why not the cheers?

---

Thinking about it I suspect there are standards of proof, and precedent which render all this to some extent academic - ie there will be no need to establish motive as there's a regulation somewhere that says "which could reasonably be perceived as racist".

It doesn't really matter what you think should happen, it matters what the regulations are.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

Why should anyone be sanctioned for anything till guilt is established - not alleged and/or assumed?

The alternative, as I see it, is to sanction just in case, in this case, it was racist. And I can't see that that is acceptable at all.

---

I don't particularly want to muddy the waters but (thinking out loud) why is it clear that the chants were racist but the cheers were not? If the chants are going to be taken at face value and sanctioned then why not the cheers?

---

Thinking about it I suspect there are standards of proof, and precedent which render all this to some extent academic - ie there will be no need to establish motive as there's a regulation somewhere that says "which could reasonably be perceived as racist".

It doesn't really matter what you think should happen, it matters what the regulations are.

Because, on the basis of probability, that chant is not some nuanced observation of Middle Eastern politics, rather an ignorant comment of the ethnic community if Bradford.

 

[PeteBlade]

Because, on the basis of probability, that chant is not some nuanced observation of Middle Eastern politics, rather an ignorant comment of the ethnic community if Bradford.

Exactly this ^

Utterly ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Because, on the basis of probability, that chant is not some nuanced observation of Middle Eastern politics, rather an ignorant comment of the ethnic community if Bradford.

This reads a lot like: Why bother establishing motive when you can presume guilt, convict, and sentence?

(The contention is not that it was a nuanced observation of ME politics. This is a straw man.)

 

[HillmortonBlade]

This reads a lot like: Why bother establishing motive when you can presume guilt, convict, and sentence?

(The contention is not that it was a nuanced observation of ME politics. This is a straw man.)

Rather, there is no need to establish the motive of individuals when a "reasonable person" can make an assumption of motive. I return to the point that if the law has to establish the individual motive of people chanting something that the majority would recognise as racist then we are, indeed, fucked (legally).

 

[HillmortonBlade]

This reads a lot like: Why bother establishing motive when you can presume guilt, convict, and sentence?

(The contention is not that it was a nuanced observation of ME politics. This is a straw man.)

And with a little more thought before I reply... How do we, as a society, deal with racist or any discriminatory chanting if every time we have to establish the mens rea?

 

[metalblade]

And with a little more thought before I reply... How do we, as a society, deal with racist or any discriminatory chanting if every time we have to establish the mens rea?

The alternative is a Gestapo style court case or maybe Sharia law

 

[Tezza1889]

Don't understand why everybody's worried about racist behaviour when Lee rigby got his head cut off in broad daylight and it wasn't deemed a racist attack.

Anyway, it's just a chant at a football match to the English,but to sorry cheese dicks it's a big deal..... I do feel sorry for the guy, and if he ever sets foot in the lane agin I'll be amazed, he looked like a rabbit in the headlights in the star..

The star, fuck that shit rag..