FA investigate racism

[sitwell]

How do you know it wasn't a jibe at the Bradford fans for having people from their city travel to be with ISIS? Like i say, you don't because you weren't in their thick heads. People are brandashing the racist card out when in actual fact nothing has been proven.

Its because ISIS scans ,Your just a town full of Islamic state terrorists doesn't work ,not to Guantanemera anyway ,I very much doubt many of those singing it would have a clue what they meant to be honest.

 

[wizadry]

Really though, stepping back from the minutiae of the matter (I have already posted elsewhere why I believe it is racist, just to clarify my position on this), can anyone hand on heart not recognise what the intended meaning was??

But anyway, we are not discussing a criminal investigation (at this time) and the FA only have to consider balance of probabilities.

We could all hazard good guesses HB but nothing has been proven and that is my point mate. We are making a mockery of our own club as it stands and i don't like that.

 

[PeteBlade]

As I have already said this wont be the first time Bradford fans will have had this sung to them whether it be
Pakis or ISIS and it wont be the last but all the PC liberal fuckwits that spoil our country blow totally out of proportion
what 20 Blades sang for all of 10 seconds ends up in the papers in the news and tarnishes the reputation of my football club then you get people being offended on behalf of people that the chant was directed at that probably didnt hear it and most likely werent offended as theyve heard it all before that wasnt actually at the game so are only getting the facts second / third hand that have an agenda against SUFC

Surely your anger should be directed at the 10 or 20 fuckwits who sang?

 

[Pedro Verde]

It doesn't matter what the intention was. Even if it was intended as a chant towards the White community of Bradford, the Asian community are still being made out as though they support ISIS, therefore still being offensive to the race, hence remaining racist.

Some of the Asian community do actually support ISIS

 

[wizadry]

,I very much doubt many of those singing it would have a clue what they meant to be honest.

And this was exactly my point when i said to barney that he can't possibly know their intentions because he wasn't in their thick heads.

 

[Pedro Verde]

Surely your anger should be directed at the 10 or 20 fuckwits who sang?

Who says Im angry

 

[Darthblade]

No, but Islam is a race. And these chants were directed towards Bradford's Islam community, effectively tarnishing every member of that community with the brush of a very select few who have fled to a murderous group. You couldn't get closer to the definition of racism if you tried.

No they were not directed towards Bradford's Islamic community ..... that much is crystal clear. Bradford's Islamic community were not there at BDTBL.

The chant, initiated and briefly sung by a very small number of young idiots, was directed as a "wind up" at Bradford's supporters who were currently inhabiting the away stand .........

Even you cannot dispute that .......

UTB & FTP

 

[HillmortonBlade]

As I have already said this wont be the first time Bradford fans will have had this sung to them whether it be Pakis or ISIS and it wont be the last but all the PC liberal fuckwits that spoil our country blow totally out of proportion what 20 Blades sang for all of 10 seconds ends up in the papers in the news and tarnishes the reputation of my football club then you get people being offended on behalf of people that the chant was directed at that probably didnt hear it and most likely werent offended as theyve heard it all before that wasnt actually at the game so are only getting the facts second / third hand that have an agenda against SUFC

I get that. From my perspective there is no place for chants of this nature, but my point of view has been about what happened and the issues surrounding it. As regards the subsequent press interest, well, I think I said in one of my original posts, I am flabbergasted how out of proportion it is compared to how insignificant it appeared to me. It is however, a good thing that fans can debate it, demonstrating a maturity that is missing from the media coverage.

 

[sitwell]

Surely your anger should be directed at the 10 or 20 fuckwits who sang?

Everybody is angry at them ,doesn't mean you cant also be angry at the people intent on dragging our name through the mud ,and I include the initial complainant. It seemed to me that the Bradford fans did hear it and immediately let out a cheer that said ,not that old fucking chestnut again that we hear every week ,like we do when Tevez chants or rapist chants go up. Incidentally what would happen if Peterboro sang town full of rapists at us ? Would we all cry and not go out of the house again?

 

[HillmortonBlade]

No they were not directed towards Bradford's Islamic community ..... that much is crystal clear. Bradford's Islamic community were not there at BDTBL.

The chant, initiated and briefly sung by a very small number of young idiots, was directed as a "wind up" at Bradford's supporters who were currently inhabiting the away stand .........

Even you cannot dispute that .......

UTB & FTP

Still racist though, in the same way that singing gas chamber songs to Spurs fans is.

 

[Barney]

We could all hazard good guesses HB but nothing has been proven and that is my point mate. We are making a mockery of our own club as it stands and i don't like that.

No we're not. Now you're blowing posts condemning racism out of proportion. It's nobody's intention to tar the club with being racist. What we are doing is pointing out that the chant chanted by 10,20,30 however many, was racist, whilst also emphasising that a few idiots don't magically turn the entire club racist.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Really though, stepping back from the minutiae of the matter (I have already posted elsewhere why I believe it is racist, just to clarify my position on this), can anyone hand on heart not recognise what the intended meaning was??

But anyway, we are not discussing a criminal investigation (at this time) and the FA only have to consider balance of probabilities.

Yes. Absolutely hand on heart I have no idea what the intended meaning was.

And I can't see how anyone can other than the people who did the chanting.

Expressed in simple or even simplistic terms two alternatives are banter or racism. There may be others.

I'd imagine it's possible that if 20 or 30 people were involved then there are a variety of motives.

One poster has said the chant made him smile - presumably he took it as banter.

Other posters have said the chants were met with cheering.

Hang on. They were *cheered*?

But the cheers were ironic and intended to stop or ridicule the chanting.

I just don't think it's at all reasonable to take the actions of others and give them motivations you cannot possibly be aware of.

The chants may have been literal, ironic/sarcastic, something else, or a mixture.

 

[Barney]

Some of the Asian community do actually support ISIS

Those that don't, and have absolutely nothing to do with them just like the vast, vast majority of all the Asian community ( specifically Bradford's Asian community here), were being made out as though they are involved with ISIS.

 

[Darthblade]

Laughing at racist jokes doesn't make them less racist.

But I'm willing to speculate that you've all laughed at a joke that could be deemed to be "racist", whether or not you perceive yourself to be racist or not .....

UTB & FTP

 

[HillmortonBlade]

Yes. Absolutely hand on heart I have no idea what the intended meaning was.

And I can't see how anyone can other than the people who did the chanting.

Expressed in simple or even simplistic terms two alternatives are banter or racism. There may be others.

I'd imagine it's possible that if 20 or 30 people were involved then there are a variety of motives.

One poster has said the chant made him smile - presumably he took it as banter.

Other posters have said the chants were met with cheering.

Hang on. They were *cheered*?

But the cheers were ironic and intended to stop or ridicule the chanting.

I just don't think it's at all reasonable to take the actions of others and give them motivations you cannot possibly be aware of.

The chants may have been literal, ironic/sarcastic, something else, or a mixture.

So, by extension, no football club will be punished for the chanting of it's fans, until it has been established whether it was intentional or ironic or sarcastic? (here's me getting back into the minutiae again).

 

[wizadry]

No we're not. Now you're blowing posts condemning racism out of proportion. It's nobody's intention to tar the club with being racist. What we are doing is pointing out that the chant chanted by 10,20,30 however many, was racist, whilst also emphasising that a few idiots don't magically turn the entire club racist.

All the headlines are saying is that Sheffield United are being investigated for racist chanting, hence making a mockery out of our club, why don't any headlines say a handful of football fans are being investigated for alleged racist chanting? I could have a good guess as to why. Afterall, Sheffield United as in the club itself haven't told these stupid bastards to start chanting the songs have they.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

But I'm willing to speculate that you've all laughed at a joke that could be deemed to be "racist", whether or not you perceive yourself to be racist or not .....

UTB & FTP

Hands up, am sure I have. But it's what is acceptable and lawful and with the Ground Regulations we are talking about...

 

[HillmortonBlade]

All the headlines are saying is that Sheffield United are being investigated for racist chanting, hence making a mockery out of our club, why don't any headlines say a handful of football fans are being investigated for alleged racist chanting? I could have a good guess as to why. Afterall, Sheffield United as in the club itself haven't told these stupid bastards to start chanting the songs have they.

Lazy journalism I would suggest, especially at a quiet news time and they all bored with it raining in Cumbria. I doubt very seriously whether this will come to anything at all.

 

[wizadry]

Lazy journalism I would suggest, especially at a quiet news time and they all bored with it raining in Cumbria. I doubt very seriously whether this will come to anything at all.

Lets hope so for all our sakes mate.

 

[Darthblade]

Those that don't, and have absolutely nothing to do with them just like the vast, vast majority of all the Asian community ( specifically Bradford's Asian community here), were being made out as though they are involved with ISIS.

Just to be clear, since you're so precise in this debate ....... how do you know how many of the Asian community in Bradford support ISIS either directly or otherwise ?

UTB & FTP

 

[Worksop II]

I think we need some RLOs in the Crowd - Racism Liason Officers

Plenty of suitable candidates on this thread

If you have a thought, and you are not sure if you should sing, smile, frown or jeer, check with them first

You may miss the rest of the game listening to the answer, so this may be the opportunity you need to fart

 

[Pedro Verde]

Those that don't, and have absolutely nothing to do with them just like the vast, vast majority of all the Asian community ( specifically Bradford's Asian community here), were being made out as though they are involved with ISIS.

Did you hear what was sung and do you know the intention of the chant
I suggest the answer to both are No
So all that is just pure conjecture

 

[Barney]

All the headlines are saying is that Sheffield United are being investigated for racist chanting, hence making a mockery out of our club, why don't any headlines say a handful of football fans are being investigated for alleged racist chanting? I could have a good guess as to why. Afterall, Sheffield United as in the club itself haven't told these stupid bastards to start chanting the songs have they.

I agree having seen some more reports come out, there should have been more of an emphasis on just how few there were. And how the absolute majority told them to shut up. I'm not sure whether the intention of the reports were to unfairly lump us all in together though. It's more likely a lack of information on their part. It's unfair on us that it could potentially effect reputation as a result though.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

I think we need some RLOs in the Crowd - Racism Liason Officers

Plenty of suitable candidates on this thread

If you have a thought, and you are not sure if you should sing, smile, frown or jeer, check with them first

You may miss the rest of the game listening to the answer, so this may be the opportunity you need to fart

Or even better, since it's a fairly easy bet to know where naughty behaviours may originate, let's employ some stewards to stand about and be able to respond or at least report appropriately and definitively when unwanted behaviours manifest themselves. I have a vague hope they will be able to sort this overblown matter out.

 

[Darthblade]

Yep I'm wondering if it will be OK to crack a fart off on the kop tomorrow

Provided you can be sure you don't offend anybody ........

UTB & FTP

 

[Barney]

Just to be clear, since you're so precise in this debate ....... how do you know how many of the Asian community in Bradford support ISIS either directly or otherwise ?

UTB & FTP

I don't know for sure, nobody does. But I'd say it's safe to conclude the vast, vast majority don't support them. Would you agree?

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Can everyone please be very careful at the Peterborough game tomorrow.

do NOT chant "Town full of posh" - might upset quite a few

UTB

 

[Darthblade]

Hands up, am sure I have. But it's what is acceptable and lawful and with the Ground Regulations we are talking about...

The ground regulations forbid the use of bad language but even the players and the manager ignore that one .....

UTB & FTP

 

[Worksop II]

The ground regulations forbid the use of bad language but even the players and the manager ignore that one .....

UTB & FTP

To be honest, in the Family Stand, the warnings about bad language face the Stands, not the Pitch

 

[Ginger Gnome]

Those that don't, and have absolutely nothing to do with them just like the vast, vast majority of all the Asian community ( specifically Bradford's Asian community here), were being made out as though they are involved with ISIS.

Many Asians aren't Muslims. Many Muslims aren't even Asian so your assumption that the chant was aimed at Bradford's Asian community shows exceptional prejudice on your part (unless there was a subsection of the chant specifying which bit of the town was full of ISIS). You're the one specifically labelling Asians as the likely ISIS supporters.