Crowd today

[Grappler]

I was in a pub last night in Sunderland called the Ship Isis ,brilliant pub for any future games in the North east.

Is that for when Sunderland get relegated and we get promoted Sitters?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I'll play devil's advocate here and say perhaps it was a reference to the three sisters from Bradford who joined ISIS?

That said, that nuance would have liked been lost on the majority of people who sang it (not sure of the numbers) it who probably of the opinion that Muslims == terrorists, so even if the originator was referring to the sisters*, most of the people singing it would have been singing it because it was racist.


*probably still racist though given the demographics of Bradford. But imagine for a second if the sisters had come from Chesterfield instead (muslim population 0.7%**), and that chant had been heard the next time we played them. Would that still have been racist?

**http://localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/east-midlands/chesterfield

Interesting post Highbury. My initial thought is no, that would not be racist. Because on the balance of probabilities, those chanting would be referring to a specific case of individuals rather than motivated by a high percentage of Pakistani people or even Muslims in a city. It would still be wrong and inappropriate generalization to tar all the people of Chesterfield with the brush of three individuals but my own interpretation would be that that would not be racist as such but still demonstrates prejudice of sorts and the sort of simple-mindedness that harbors racist attitudes.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Bradford's Muslim population is made up of lots of different races and origins - mostly South Asian (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc) but also Arabic and North African, Turkish etc. There are even a few white Muslims. So singing a song that is derogatory to Bradford, (ie claiming that its large Muslim population means it's a "town full of ISIS,") isn't racist,( ie claiming that one race is inferior to another). It's part of the fine old terrace tradition of seizing on a distinguishing feature of an opponents city and taking the piss.

Blackpool fans can shove their tower up their arse. West Ham fans can do the same with their jellied eels and Geordies with their brown ale. Brighton is a town full of pooftahs. People from Hartlepool fans can't tell the difference between a monkey and a Frenchman. Liverpudlians are all on the dole.

"Town full of pakis" is a throwback to the old days of racism on the terraces and shouldn't be sung. I was on the kop and didn't even hear the chant, so most people must have ignored it. "Town full of ISIS" on the other hand isn't particularly witty but is just a way of winding up the opposition, as a number of ISIS supporters have indeed come from Bradford.

Let me ask you this then Dkc, do you think, on the balance of probabilities that the majority of people singing “Town full of ISIS” either knew about the individual ISIS members from Bradford? Do you think they distinguish between a person’s race and beliefs? Do you think that if they saw someone with brown skin and a beard, they would believe them to be a Muslim and by their logic, therefore a terrorist without knowing anything about the individual?


The homophobia directed towards Brighton is also unacceptable by the way.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

On the Radio this morning it was reported that the Club have been reported to the Kick It Out campaign and that complaint has been passed to the FA. I certainly heard what was being sung/chanted and the bloke being interviewed sits in the South Stand.

It’s sad to see our club in the spotlight for these reasons but trying to cover it up would be wrong. Let’s hope that this has one or both of the following effects.


1. The idiots singing the songs realize the harm they are doing to their club and change their ways.


2. Club officials recognize that they need to clamp down on any such behavior by ejecting, reporting and/or banning the morons involved.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

If I called everybody a "cunt" who said, sang, or quoted things I didn't approve of then I would spend my whole life calling people cunts.

You need to chill mate ..... the world isn't a perfect place and a football crowd CERTAINLY isn't a perfect place. ANY football crowd in the world is not the place to be over-sensitive !!

UTB & FTP

I think referring to overt racism as "something you don't approve of" is too much of an understatement. They are cunts and deserve the title entirely. There's plenty I don't approve of but wouldn't call someone a cunt for. Being racist in the name of my club is not one of them. They are cunts and should hang their heads in shame.

 

[Grappler]

Lets be fair ...... Sammon deserved a fu**ing for that miss, which was one of the worst misses I've seen in the last 10 years ..... Billy Sharp put it on a plate for him !!

I heard some people comment "even Craig Beattie could have finished that one" !!

Regrettably; he's one that needs to be replaced in January if we're to have a chance of the play-offs ......

UTB & FTP

The Sammon miss was a shocker, he only had to lean forward, from the waist, and the ball would have been in the back of the net!

Heading it wide, from that position looked almost impossible, still not sure how he did it?

 

[grafikhaus]

I wasn't going to come back to this, but maybe it has nothing to do with racism at all. Maybe it was just a group of football fans singing to wind up the visiting fans. It tends to happen at a lot of games and guess what, they sing something back, everyone goes home and the deedars, scabs, dingles,scum,monkey hangers,sheep shaggers, pigs.................................................all go home and forget all about it 'til next time!

Exactly. Some selective hearing here. Singing 'You fat bastard' at Sharpie is OK? Throwing coins at our players? Another post mentioned that 'Bradford outsang us until the goal', of course they did! It would appear that getting pissed is part and parcel of an awayday and away fans have always wanted to 'make their presence felt'. The 2k+ Bratfud fans would have consisted of mainly young, male, aggressive, pissed 'fans' giddy at getting out of that shithole that is their home town (it's like Rotherham is to Sheffield but, in their case the big boys are Leeds) for a day and supping on the coach. If they had breathalysers on the away fans' turnstiles, I bet 90% would have failed.
Our 22k fans would have comprised plenty of kiddies, wimmin and old bastards like myself. We're hardly going to enter the ground whipped up into a frenzy!

It's football and these chants have always - and will always go on. The chant that always disappoints me is 'scabs' at Forest fans. First off, most of those singing it weren't even born at the time of the miner's strike (ditto 'Maggie' chants) and secondly Sheffield was never exactly a heartland of the mining industry. There's harking back in time and there's being antediluvian. Pure tribalism for the sake of it.

 

[sitwell]

CITY joint-chairman Mark Lawn has hit out over the alleged racist chanting that could be heard at the Sheffield United game.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co....__racist_chants__during_Bradford_City_defeat/

I wonder if he would have said anything if they had won ? I hope United dont follow this up with statements about coin throwing and abusive chants ,hope we can rise above it.

 

[grafikhaus]

I could have sworn this thread started off praising the galvanising effect fans and players can have on each other.......(sighs). Never mind...............let's discuss demographics.. ethnographics and the growing number of gynaecologists we seem to have amongst our support !!!

Welcome to S2 4SU! I'm surprised the the Endogenous Growth Theory hasn't been mentioned yet! It's what make this a great forum.

On the Radio this morning it was reported that the Club have been reported to the Kick It Out campaign and that complaint has been passed to the FA. I certainly heard what was being sung/chanted and the bloke being interviewed sits in the South Stand.

Well this opens up a whole new can of worms. This person (could be classed as a cunt, but I couldn't possibly comment...) seems to be so outraged that he's willing to drop the club in it. Bet he runs his local Neighbourhood Watch.

 

[Darthblade]

CITY joint-chairman Mark Lawn has hit out over the alleged racist chanting that could be heard at the Sheffield United game.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co....__racist_chants__during_Bradford_City_defeat/

But somehow he managed to forget to condemn the owners of the £17,865 that was contributed to Billy's pension fund, by being thrown at him .... ooooh I'm sure he didn't mean to forget that inconsequential act that could have had somebody's eye out !!

If Billy was "offended" he did remarkably well to hide it when subjected to the "fattist" chants .....

UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

I think referring to overt racism as "something you don't approve of" is too much of an understatement. They are cunts and deserve the title entirely. There's plenty I don't approve of but wouldn't call someone a cunt for. Being racist in the name of my club is not one of them. They are cunts and should hang their heads in shame.

Racism doesn't only occur between the "white" and the "other than white" communities and is in fact particularly prevalent between many ethnic minorities and other ethnic minorities. The difference is that in these circumstances it is not blown up out of all proportion.

The word racism has been used by those of a Politically Correct persuasion, to beat individuals over the head with if their opinions / views differ and therefore, due to this radical overuse, most people have become immune to the fear of being labelled "racist".

Personally, I don't agree with discriminating against an individual because of their race, however, I see it as no worse than sexism, ageism, or many of the other 'isms we seem to have invented.

This is why I believe we should leave politics out of football .......

UTB & FTP

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

If I called everybody a "cunt" who said, sang, or quoted things I didn't approve of then I would spend my whole life calling people cunts.

You need to chill mate ..... the world isn't a perfect place and a football crowd CERTAINLY isn't a perfect place. ANY football crowd in the world is not the place to be over-sensitive !!

UTB & FTP

Couldn't be more chilled and certainly not being overly sensitive.
If you think the word Paki has any place in this day and age you're beneath contempt and I've no interest in someone trying to justify such a moronic position.
As far as I'm concerned they are as I described earlier and really couldn't care less if they want to take unbridge or if others think it's unjust or unfair. What they want to call me on the back of that doesn't have much weight given its coming from a grade A1 cunt.

 

[Bert]

Couldn't be more chilled and certainly not being overly sensitive.
If you think the word Paki has any place in this day and age you're beneath contempt and I've no interest in someone trying to justify such a moronic position.
As far as I'm concerned they are as I described earlier and really couldn't care less if they want to take unbridge or if others think it's unjust or unfair. What they want to call me on the back of that doesn't have much weight given its coming from a grade A1 cunt.

Just out of interest, we're you at the game and did you hear anyone use the word Paki?

 

[Darthblade]

Couldn't be more chilled and certainly not being overly sensitive.
If you think the word Paki has any place in this day and age you're beneath contempt and I've no interest in someone trying to justify such a moronic position.
As far as I'm concerned they are as I described earlier and really couldn't care less if they want to take unbridge or if others think it's unjust or unfair. What they want to call me on the back of that doesn't have much weight given its coming from a grade A1 cunt.

Personally, I'm a believer in the old saying "sticks & stones may break my bones but calling names won't hurt me ", so if you wish to tell me that I'm "beneath contempt", I can confirm that I'm not offended at all mate. I have had much worse directed at me both on and off a football terrace / stand / pitch and I have broad shoulders and a very high offence threshold.

I commented earlier ( on a different thread I believe ) that if the word Paki was used it was stupid, of that there is no argument from me, however, the majority of people who have witnessed what actually was chanted appear to be saying it was ISIS that was used. That wouldn't be a "racist" issue.

Whatever "those" people call you is immaterial though ....... surely the issue is whether anybody is offended by what you are called ...... this seems to be the yardstick being applied in this issue !!

UTB & FTP

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Just out of interest, we're you at the game and did you hear anyone use the word Paki?

No, I didn't hear it. If I had I would have reported it to the club without any second thought of being thought of as a lesser Blade or snitch as some are labelling the guy who did.

 

[Bert]

No, I didn't hear it. If I had I would have reported it to the club without any second thought of being thought of as a lesser Blade or snitch as some are labelling the guy who did.

The guy who reported it was not sure what word they used according to his Radio Sheffield interview . Bert could have told him because he was on the Kop.

IT WASN'T PAKIS. HAVE YOU GOT THAT?
NOBODY USED THE WORD PAKIS. GET THAT INTO YOUR THICK HEAD AND IF YOU'D BEEN THERE YOU WOULD KNOW THAT THEY NEVER USED THE WORD PAKIS.

 

[Guesty]

I know the ISIS chant was possibly outside the permitted boundaries, but it was good humoured.
Though I must say, ISIS is a political organisation, not a race.

Yes but it's not that people think that the racial abuse is against ISIS. Rather, it's the insinuation that because Bradford has a large Muslim population that it must therefore be full of ISIS supporters.

I assume no-one gives a fuck about abuse directed actually at ISIS.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

The guy who reported it was not sure what word they used according to his Radio Sheffield interview . Bert could have told him because he was on the Kop.

IT WASN'T PAKIS. HAVE YOU GOT THAT?
NOBODY USED THE WORD PAKIS. GET THAT INTO YOUR THICK HEAD AND IF YOU'D BEEN THERE YOU WOULD KNOW THAT THEY NEVER USED THE WORD PAKIS.

You ought to tell Bert to calm down and learn to read posts before he gets sand in all his creases.
I clearly said IF someone thinks using Paki's OR if they think singing sounds linking Bradford to ISIS because of the numbers of Muslims who live there is OK then they are cunts. Read it again, after you've had your bath and some bubbly milk to calm down a touch.

Incidentally are you also suggesting the guy who made the report wasn't at the game? That's quite a claim so if be interested in what evidence you have got to support that serious claim?

 

[Bert]

You ought to tell Bert to calm down and learn to read posts before he gets sand in all his creases.
I clearly said IF someone thinks using Paki's OR if they think singing sounds linking Bradford to ISIS because of the numbers of Muslims who live there is OK then they are cunts. Read it again, after you've had your bath and some bubbly milk to calm down a touch.

Incidentally are you also suggesting the guy who made the report wasn't at the game? That's quite a claim so if be interested in what evidence have you got to support that?

Bert did not suggest that the reporter was not at the game.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Bert did not suggest that the reporter was not at the game.

Ah ok, so you are aiming your ignorant rant at me.
Care to back any of your accusations up or do we just put it down to a baseless rant because you've lost your head and have made a bit of a boo-boo?

 

[Bert]

Ah ok, so you are aiming your ignorant rant at me.
Care to back any of your accusations up or do we just put it down to a baseless rant because you've lost your head and have made a bit of a boo-boo?

What accusations? Bert was simply pointing out in a simplified manner that the word Paki was never used.
Were you at the game?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

What accusations? Bert was simply pointing out in a simplified manner that the word Paki was never used.
Were you at the game?

Yes, and I never said the word Paki was used. I however couldn't possibly say it wasn't used, say in the south stand where I wasn't sat. I've heard it shouted from the South Stand in previous matches against Bradford, which I reported to a Steward at the time.
I thought it was ISIS, which is also racist and makes the people who chanted it cunts, which brings us back to my original point.

 

[Golden Gordon]

I thought it was ISIS, which is also racist

Back to square one!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Back to square one!

I know, I thought my opening post was quite clear about that.

 

[Dkc]

What accusations? Bert was simply pointing out in a simplified manner that the word Paki was never used.

I was on the kop too, top left and never heard it at all during the 90 mins