From The Secret Footballer

[MBoreman]

Yup, have a look at this:

Wish he'd point this out now. Sadly, like all players and managers they're forced to trot out the 'they pay their money' line.

 

[MBoreman]

Ultimately, it's pretty simple, or should be. Fans want the team to do well, moaning/booing or anything like that doesn't help that. You're shooting yourself in the foot.

On the flip side, giving the support we all know is possible, as seen in the cups for example, many of these average/poor players can become very good.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Is someone anyone anywhere seriously fucking suggesting that if we'd have sang non stop in all our home defeats from minute 1 to the last minute we' have won?

This been the case there is definitely a niche market out there for rent a clappers where for a fee fans would turn up and guarentee atmosphere

Fucking wake up!

 

[Deleted member 875]

Exactly. A defining moment of the season for me.

The players cared enough to get us back in that match. Some of the fans didn't. I back those players over those fans every time.

UTMB

Can someone please ask WHF why he has come to the assertion that some fans wanted United to lose at home to Southend. I'd ask myself but because I have a different viewpoint to him he has got me ignore

 

[PeteBlade]

Can someone please ask WHF why he has come to the assertion that some fans wanted United to lose at home to Southend. I'd ask myself but because I have a different viewpoint to him he has got me ignore

Me too.
Think it's just him and Woodward on his forum.

 

[sheepbridge]

But somehow at 2 down they decided to switch on?

Couldn't disagree more. This line about the players not caring is just plain wrong.

Another great example was Swindon second leg of the play-offs. 5-1 down. Some fans moaning, players get on with it and nearly turn it around in an amazing game of football.

Neutral comments at the time focused on the incredible spirit of the team.

The players clearly care more than some of the fans. I back those players, and the club, over those fans every time.

This is the problem though. Why be in that situation in the first place and why can they beat Premiership teams, yet play so poorly and look so dis-interested against Crewe, Gillingham and virtually every other 3rd tier team this season? A lot of fans aren't just upset at players ability, if they really were rubbish but at least looked as though they cared and were trying they'd be getting more support. It's the dis-interested play, then conceding soft goals to teams who 'want it more' that is upsetting many fans.

 

[super_pig]

Another great example was Swindon second leg of the play-offs. 5-1 down. Some fans moaning, players get on with it and nearly turn it around in an amazing game of football.

you're missing the point. it wasn't that we were 5-1 down. it was because the level of the defending would have been bettered by Jordanthorpe cubs 11

 

[grafikhaus]

Bang on. Fans just do themselves over. They want the team to win, yet behave in a way which lessens the chances of that happening. Take the Southend game for example; despite a poor half we'd come back from 2 down, should have been roared off and encouraged to go for the win. Nope, more boos.

It cuts both ways. Maybe United's fans would have roared them off at FT celebrating a win. But Adkins decided to leave Sammon, Scougall and Done on the bench. Over 19k there. Once again we did our bit.

 

[Claude Makelele]

That's not the point. It's great that we get such numbers but when the fans get on the players backs after about 15 minutes it is counterproductive. I can understand the frustration but 15 minutes in is far too early and is counterproductive as TSR has been saying.

The fans will moan and groan at the match because they've been subjected to absolute rubbish this season and will rightly voice their frustration.

Sat there in silence then clapping them off is counterproductive as it gives off the impression the fans are happy with mediocrity.

The fans put in the effort to turn up, they get behind the team home and away and they're given back absolute dross most of the time. If they can't moan as it's "too early" then what are they allowed to do?

 

[Rodders]

The fans will moan and groan at the match because they've been subjected to absolute rubbish this season and will rightly voice their frustration.

Sat there in silence then clapping them off is counterproductive as it gives off the impression the fans are happy with mediocrity.

The fans put in the effort to turn up, they get behind the team home and away and they're given back absolute dross most of the time. If they can't moan as it's "too early" then what are they allowed to do?

I agree Barn.

 

[SUFC Guy]

Fans are entitled to boo, they have the right to do so - but why oh why boo and abuse players while the game is on???
It is counter productive fact!
Just boo at half time and full time if they deserve it.
If anyone says that they don't hear abuse of players at their slightest mis-pass then they are telling porkies.
I have a woman behind me who knows bugger all about football, yes she is a season ticket holder but still, she knows bugger all and is for ever screaming at Baxter! The very embarrassing fact is more often than not its not his fault.
She has got a right gob on her and unfortunately so do many many more that would do well to keep their gob shut and...

1. Watch and learn the game (don't abuse a player for having the guts to try risky passes when they don't work)
2. If you must boo then do it at half time, full time then whenever you want but please not in match time.
3. Stay away if you hate it that much.

The sad reality is that whilever any club has a large attendance the percentage of muppets that follow it will always be high.

So the moral of my story is boo if you want but not when you want.

UTB

 

[Cyprus Blade]

In some ways this is a false chicken and egg argument - do supporters boo because the team is rank or not applying themselves, or are players rank or not applying themselves because supporters boo? It could be argued its a viscious circle of course (and there is no doubt in my mind that it may make some players "edgy" being boo'ed and catcalled), but equally the performances may be connected more with things other than the supporters behaviour (like the apparent shambles in the back office, the transfer department, the scouting department, the owners, the coaching staff, the tactics and systems employed etc etc.). Equally it is no doubt a comfort for those with a nose in the trough that the supporters' performance gets such scrutiny and takes some of the pressure off the club's decision-makers who appear to learn very little and repeat the same mistakes over and again.

To suggest that people pay good money to watch a third division "team" perform like (I was going to say passing - but that would only be sideways or backwards !!) strangers, capitulate to clubs who never, ever got anything out of a trip to the Lane and who surrender the history, good name and traditions of our club with an apparent shrug of the shoulders just so that they can boo them is, in my view, disingenuous and avoiding the central point. A few may do so ,but 20,000 ???? I was going to say "no way, Jose" but I doubt he will be here that long.

I really do not believe that choruses of "you're not fit to wear the shirt" sung with feeling and resonance come from anywhere but the heart and are born of hurt, shame, pain and frustration.They are an effect, not a cause, of the club's demise and to argue otherwise is to avoid the elephant in the room - namely that the club is poorly administered, has been for a good long while and it seems to harbour something malignant within that seems to infiltrate, poison and destabilise every aspect of the club. The message from the terraces appears to have gotten through to the Board with the departure of Brannigan (whose performance,it has to be said,was dire and represented yet another example of a wage theft from the top down) but what have they learnt? Very little it would appear as we go back to the Ancien Regime of McCabe's placemen in the key positions.

When we went down to the 4th Division I did not feel that our club was in such bad shape as it is now and those were very dark days. The Decision makers and Leaders of the club need to step up to the plate, accept responsibility and get us out of the mess they got us into. I don't think they have got many chances left before it spirals totally out of control.

UTB

 

[Taramasalata]

just boo, pay yer money its up to you..

hoooooooooofball please

 

[Grecian2000]

This is when some of our fans don't have the patience or football knowledge to realize that results take president over performance or that there is a bigger picture involved.

Couldn't agree less with this.

It may be the case toward the end of the season that you need to get the three points and hang the performance BUT at the beginning of the season (and for the majority) it is actually getting the performance right that is the key.
Once the performance is right then the results, inevitably, follow. Not the other way around as some try and make out.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I can honestly say I can't remember the fans getting on the players backs this season, before any capitulation. True, it's like a morgue - that's to be expected as another dull and unproductive season unfolds. But I really don't get this suggestion about the fans creating a nasty atmosphere.

Fleetwood. We were 1-0 up in total control, and there was booing.

I think the record is Jason Holt whose first pass (on target but oh no sideways) was attacked by two or three fans around us.

Mentioned this before and someone I think responded by saying one player had been heckled while warming up to come on as a sub.

To beat that would involve maybe turning up at training and abusing the players there.

 

[alcoblade]

Fleetwood. We were 1-0 up in total control, and there was booing.

I think the record is Jason Holt whose first pass (on target but oh no sideways) was attacked by two or three fans around us.

Mentioned this before and someone I think responded by saying one player had been heckled while warming up to come on as a sub.

To beat that would involve maybe turning up at training and abusing the players there.

OK, so I'll accept that you can pick up on this one occasion (It was so small that I personally didn't pick up on it, but I'll accept your word). And I'll also suggest that as you keep repeating that one occasion, from quite a while back, it's really not the norm.

This is one of the biggest smokescreens we've had for apologising for the team's deficiencies.

UTB

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

This is the problem though. Why be in that situation in the first place and why can they beat Premiership teams, yet play so poorly and look so dis-interested against Crewe, Gillingham and virtually every other 3rd tier team this season? A lot of fans aren't just upset at players ability, if they really were rubbish but at least looked as though they cared and were trying they'd be getting more support. It's the dis-interested play, then conceding soft goals to teams who 'want it more' that is upsetting many fans.

Except it's not the level of commitment, it's the system. A majority of games this season has involved a change.of formation and with it an improvement.

As posted previously the players are putting in more effort than some of the fans. Southend being the best example. The team turned that one round.

There have been games where we've gone behind and the crowd, especially a few on the Kop, have stayed behind the team.

IMHBCO it's just plain nonsense that the players aren't trying.

Whatever is going wrong it's not commitment.

 

[secretchief]

Except it's not the level of commitment, it's the system. A majority of games this season has involved a change.of formation and with it an improvement.

As posted previously the players are putting in more effort than some of the fans. Southend being the best example. The team turned that one round.

There have been games where we've gone behind and the crowd, especially a few on the Kop, have stayed behind the team.

IMHBCO it's just plain nonsense that the players aren't trying.

Whatever is going wrong it's not commitment.

You've answered your own question. They are getting booed because they aren't good enough, not because they aren't trying.

All this 'blame the crowd' stuff reminds me of that old poem by Brecht.

After the uprising of the 17th June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

OK, so I'll accept that you can pick up on this one occasion (It was so small that I personally didn't pick up on it, but I'll accept your word). And I'll also suggest that as you keep repeating that one occasion, from quite a while back, it's really not the norm.

This is one of the biggest smokescreens we've had for apologising for the team's deficiencies.

UTB

That one example is three. And over time. Exceptions, or the Rule?

We're not on a bad run bc of the.fans, well not exclusively, the problems we've got stem from players who are not good.enough. Or not good enough for the jobs they've been asked.to.do eg Coutts.

The accusation that they're not trying is simplistic codswallop

That said, I did once ask for a.list.of.who exactly isn't trying,.and got.a.decent response,.but can't find it using my phone.

Fans getting on the backs of the team makes a bad situation worse.

 

[alcoblade]

That one example is three. And over time. Exceptions, or the Rule?

We're not on a bad run bc of the.fans, well not exclusively, the problems we've got stem from players who are not good.enough. Or not good enough for the jobs they've been asked.to.do eg Coutts.

The accusation that they're not trying is simplistic codswallop

That said, I did once ask for a.list.of.who exactly isn't trying,.and got.a.decent response,.but can't find it using my phone.

Fans getting on the backs of the team makes a bad situation worse.

I also agree that it's not about effort, it's lack of ability. I just outright reject the idea that the any negative that can be unearthed about "some blokes sitting near me who grumble" isn't vastly outweighed by what ought to be the lift given to upgraded pub footballers playing in front of 20,000 people.

They can't exploit it, because they are upgraded pub footballers. Not the reverse.


UTB

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

Couldn't agree less with this.

It may be the case toward the end of the season that you need to get the three points and hang the performance BUT at the beginning of the season (and for the majority) it is actually getting the performance right that is the key.
Once the performance is right then the results, inevitably, follow. Not the other way around as some try and make out.

I agree Grecian - I think you may have missed my point / or not read my post in full.

what I meant was that I believe that is the point in which our supporters don't do well. When the results/league position is good but performances aren't great. Rather than backing the manager/team,this is when some fans get impatient and don't give them their full backing. We saw this under Warnock, Blackwell, Wilson's second season, Clough, Bassett. Personally I think our fans need to do a better job at supporting the team in these times. Over the course of a 50-60 game season performances aren't always going to be great, that's when the fans need to stick with the team, especially if they are still at the right end of the table and picking up results.

However, I suppose all football fans are the same. We're seeing the same at Man City and Man United at the moment, see it from Arsenal fans every season etc.