United 1 Millwall 2 - report

[Deadbat]

The photo below shows the pulling of Collins' shirt that Adkins was complaining about.

View attachment 14169


As a former goalkeeper, what's your view on which hand Howard should be using to reach for this ball?:

View attachment 14170

As for the shirt pull it is clear but it goes on. I refer to the comments earlier and that United need to be tougher and man up. Collins was wrestling and grappling as was Sharp all game. It goes on both ways.

I did not see a clear foul at the time and is sometimes easy to pause things and show things like above. You could find another moment when Collins has one of their shirts and the box and do a freeze frame and say it is a penalty. When the game is played at speed it is very hard for the ref to pick such things up in the box and so much pulling goes on. Did not see one United player complain after the goal and I think Millwall would have gone crazy if they had disallowed it. It was a fair goal as was the second.


I have no issue with the hand Howard used. Upon watching back; it was hit footwork that was the weakness. He took an age to get back on what was a looping header,, not a bullet as I mistakenly said in the report. It did go right in the corner. To be honest I am not Howard's greatest fan but really both goals were defensive errors rather than his. However that is looking at that game in isolation. My point remains that he does not make many actual good saves...only the routine ones and the ball goes into his net way too often even with the crap defending in front of him.

 

[mosbolad]

Once again the keeper Howard is the fall guy. I'm afraid this is just the reality of being the last man, the keeper. Of course it isn't fair but then not a lot is. Before we get to Howard's alleged mistake there are those further up the field, but they are usually glossed over. However in this thread the defence is held to account as well.

Back to Howard's performance. I actually thought he was having a decent game. His distribution, kicking and playing out from the back was good. He made decent routine saves.

However for their first I was side on and just thought he maybe could have done better. Couldn't really see from the angle, just an impression. Second goal again couldn't really tell.

Having seen the replays, although the first a looping header was in the top corner, Howard didn't really seem to get any height on his leap (not much air under his feet).

Second goal, well it appears an own goal and I would say he was unlucky but really perhaps ought to have done better.

So a decent performance bar the goals!

Personally I don't think they were howlers and some of the forum / radio critisism goes way over the top. I'm just left with the feeling he really ought to have done better.

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

Having seen the goals back, both are down to McGahey, didn't win his header on the first and on the second came off his man in the centre to go for the header down the right channel, that he didn't win. As someone else on the thread has said he should have stayed central and left the punt down the channel to Freeman. Collins was stretched on the second covering for McGahey who was obviously out of position after losing the header.

I think McGahey has done ok since returning but both those goals are mainly down to him. Apart from those 2 goals I didn't think Millwall looked like scoring and the better team lost. Most have said it since Maguire's departure, we are crying out for a dominant centre half and we still do.

 

[Bergen Blade]

As for the shirt pull it is clear but it goes on. I refer to the comments earlier and that United need to be tougher and man up. Collins was wrestling and grappling as was Sharp all game. It goes on both ways.

I did not see a clear foul at the time and is sometimes easy to pause things and show things like above. You could find another moment when Collins has one of their shirts and the box and do a freeze frame and say it is a penalty. When the game is played at speed it is very hard for the ref to pick such things up in the box and so much pulling goes on. Did not see one United player complain after the goal and I think Millwall would have gone crazy if they had disallowed it. It was a fair goal as was the second.

I know, I just posted the screenshot to add to the debate, given Adkins' comments. I didn't spot the shirt pull the first time I watched the highlights.

I have no issue with the hand Howard used. Upon watching back; it was hit footwork that was the weakness. He took an age to get back on what was a looping header,, not a bullet as I mistakenly said in the report. It did go right in the corner. To be honest I am not Howard's greatest fan but really both goals were defensive errors rather than his. However that is looking at that game in isolation. My point remains that he does not make many actual good saves...only the routine ones and the ball goes into his net way too often even with the crap defending in front of him.

I'm normally not too bothered about goalkeepers, but here's something about this from seriousgoalkeeping.net:

When facing a high shot to the top corners of the goal, there is much debate about what hand a goalkeeper should use to try and save it. Some coaches advocate the use of the 'Bottom Hand', while others advocate the use of the goalkeepers favorite or more dominant hand. We at Serious Goalkeeping highly recommend the use of the 'Top Hand' for all high shots taken at the goal.

Here we see the goalkeeper attempting a save with the 'Top Hand', or in this case, the left hand for a shot going into the top right hand corner (goalkeepers right side). By using the 'Top Hand' the goalkeeper is able to cover almost the entire top half of the goal as well as the side.

Here we see the goalkeeper attempting the same save, only this time, using the "Bottom Hand', or right hand for a shot into the top right hand corner. Here you will see that using the same range of motion at the hips, the goalkeeper will not be able to reach as high as when he uses the 'Top Hand'. In this instance he is not able to cover the area just under the crossbar.

Some will argue that the goalkeeper can still almost reach the top corner using the 'Bottom Hand', and that would be correct. The problem with this is that the goalkeeper must use his full range of motion through the hips to attain the same height and distance that he can using the 'Top Hand'. There is far less tension throughout the body while using the 'Top Hand'.

Also being at the limits of his flexibility, the goalkeeper using the 'Bottom Hand' will not be able to re-adjust his body position in the air if the ball hangs up or changes direction for any reason. Whereas the goalkeeper using the 'Top Hand' can re-adjust his body and move more freely in any direction.

By using the 'Top Hand' and keeping himself in a more natural position it is safe to assume that the goalkeeper will also be able to dive further and faster because all of his body is concentrated on moving in the same direction (Kinetic Chain).

It is also scientific fact that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. By having to arch his upper body, the goalkeeper using the 'Bottom Hand' is losing up to 1-2 inches of stretching distance.

The last thing to consider is the position of the goalkeepers body upon landing. The goalkeeper who uses the 'Top Hand' has a tendency to land parallel with the ground. He will touch down first with the arms and the upper body, then the hips, and then finally the legs. This will leave him in an excellent position to roll out of the dive and further cushion the impact. The goalkeeper who uses the 'Bottom Hand' will have a tendency to land perpendicular to the ground. He will more often land feet or knees first, followed by the hips, upper body and finallly the arms and head. This can result in a heavy landing with a whiplash affect.





Therefore, 'Top Hand' is better because:

• Reaches higher
• Reaches further
• Gets there faster
• Is more relaxed
• Less risk of injury
• Consumes less energy

 

[Deadbat]

Good website that. When I played in goal a lot of it was based in instinct but generally if I went one hand... and dived to the right I would use my right hand and to my left use my left hand but if I could, I would go with both hands either way as it increase chances of saving the shot (more weight behind it to push it away).

 

[Woodwardfan]

Having seen the goals back, both are down to McGahey, didn't win his header on the first and on the second came off his man in the centre to go for the header down the right channel, that he didn't win. As someone else on the thread has said he should have stayed central and left the punt down the channel to Freeman. Collins was stretched on the second covering for McGahey who was obviously out of position after losing the header.

I think McGahey has done ok since returning but both those goals are mainly down to him. Apart from those 2 goals I didn't think Millwall looked like scoring and the better team lost. Most have said it since Maguire's departure, we are crying out for a dominant centre half and we still do.

If both goals were down to McGahey then I'm even more beffudled by the damning criticism of Collins on this thread and on the Ratings poll. He carried McGahey throughout the 95 minutes and must have cleared up 75% of Millwall attacks. If he was not to blame for either goal then he was immense defensively IMO. In the absence of McEveley I think he is the next scapegoat but if we have to have one please knock him when criticism is warranted.

As for Howard, I fully relate to Deadbat's comment that you can never quite remember any significant save he makes. Sometimes he lets poor goals in but he never surprises on the up-side. Regrettably George Long has been very similar in that respect though he at least has time to improve and I think he will. Too big a gamble for a promotion season though. We need a new keeper but look what's been spent already as quoted by Phipps on Facebook.

 

[Woodwardfan]

All Millwall's forwards were effective as were their central defensive bullies, but the stand out player for me was No21, George Saville,22 year old on loan from Wolves. Tidy, combative midfielder with loads of composure. Turns out he played on loan for 44 games in Brentford's promotion year and then for 7 games in Bristol City's promotion year. Not that we need any more midfielders or do we?

 

[Deadbat]

Collins criticism is merited. He nearly let them in several times by sloppy defending and/or marking. He was at fault partly for thee second goal. McGahey and Wallace take some blame and Howard too. To say he carried McGahey through 95 minutes and cleared up 75% of Millwall attacks leaves me scratching my head. All I saw was Collins continually passing it to his young centre half and then backpedalling furiously into his usual edge of the box position and leaving the young lad who is admittedly crap to make the decision or try and take responsibility. It was spineless really as he did it again and again. Then after errors made (granted young lad should be able to pass a football) he then launched into a tirade against him for his mistake.

I watched him constantly head the ball down (he won a fair few headers I grant you) straight to the attack and then run up for corners and win a fair few but head them up in the air!!!

The criticism sadly is fully warranted. He is not a scapegoat. Just a poor player that has been here for 6 years as we have got steadily worse and he has somehow remained a main stay in the side. Clough was hopeless last season but bombing Collins out was the right thing. He was and is done even at this level. The likes of Beevers and Craig showed him how to defend yesterday.

I am stunned people still defend him. He is a terrible player who symbolises much of what is wrong with us. Lacks leadership, winners mentality, pace and mobility. Part of the losing culture for too long. He is not the only one of course (about 15 others!) but the sooner he is moved on the better. I honestly preferred Matt Hill to him and he is now playing in the Conference. That is about the level of Collins and McGahey.

 

[Bergen Blade]

All Millwall's forwards were effective as were their central defensive bullies, but the stand out player for me was No21, George Saville,22 year old on loan from Wolves. Tidy, combative midfielder with loads of composure. Turns out he played on loan for 44 games in Brentford's promotion year and then for 7 games in Bristol City's promotion year. Not that we need any more midfielders or do we?

Agree that he did well. Our typical midfielder is great at some things, but rubbish at others. Saville and Morsy would look a good central duo, both competitive, both comfortable on the ball; both young and probably available within our price range...

 

[Woodwardfan]

Collins criticism is merited. He nearly let them in several times by sloppy defending and/or marking. He was at fault partly for thee second goal. McGahey and Wallace take some blame and Howard too. To say he carried McGahey through 95 minutes and cleared up 75% of Millwall attacks leaves me scratching my head. All I saw was Collins continually passing it to his young centre half and then backpedalling furiously into his usual edge of the box position and leaving the young lad who is admittedly crap to make the decision or try and take responsibility. It was spineless really as he did it again and again. Then after errors made (granted young lad should be able to pass a football) he then launched into a tirade against him for his mistake.

I watched him constantly head the ball down (he won a fair few headers I grant you) straight to the attack and then run up for corners and win a fair few but head them up in the air!!!

The criticism sadly is fully warranted. He is not a scapegoat. Just a poor player that has been here for 6 years as we have got steadily worse and he has somehow remained a main stay in the side. Clough was hopeless last season but bombing Collins out was the right thing. He was and is done even at this level. The likes of Beevers and Craig showed him how to defend yesterday.

I am stunned people still defend him. He is a terrible player who symbolises much of what is wrong with us. Lacks leadership, winners mentality, pace and mobility. Part of the losing culture for too long. He is not the only one of course (about 15 others!) but the sooner he is moved on the better. I honestly preferred Matt Hill to him and he is now playing in the Conference. That is about the level of Collins and McGahey.

Defenders are there to defend, I must say I do not base much of my judgement of a centre-half on his sideways passes which appear to be part of the manager's way of playing.

As for corners let's acknowledge he goes to win the ball every time and does so often and scores his share of goals. Just turn our minds to Edgar, McGahey, Basham and indeed any other big lads we've got and try to think of any one of them who wins the ball at corners like Collins does, they have an equal chance don't they?. What on earth are the others doing every corner, are they decoys?!

Basham was the first to give McGahey the bollocking after the first goal and that shocked me. I agree a young lad needs an arm around him not a bollocking but football culture is harsh.

Fans say all they want is 100% effort from players and Collins is one who gives it every game. He may be old and limited in some ways but he does his level best and one who reacts to adversity and fights for the team. I do not think he is brilliant, I don't even think he should play all season, but I do not like the way he can be singled out. On Saturday he was surely one of our better players and yet he is singled out.

Bergen, have you watched the video yet?

 

[Bergen Blade]

Defenders are there to defend, I must say I do not base much of my judgement of a centre-half on his sideways passes which appear to be part of the manager's way of playing.

As for corners let's acknowledge he goes to win the ball every time and does so often and scores his share of goals. Just turn our minds to Edgar, McGahey, Basham and indeed any other big lads we've got and try to think of any one of them who wins the ball at corners like Collins does, they have an equal chance don't they?. What on earth are the others doing every corner, are they decoys?!

Basham was the first to give McGahey the bollocking after the first goal and that shocked me. I agree a young lad needs an arm around him not a bollocking but football culture is harsh.

Fans say all they want is 100% effort from players and Collins is one who gives it every game. He may be old and limited in some ways but he does his level best and one who reacts to adversity and fights for the team. I do not think he is brilliant, I don't even think he should play all season, but I do not like the way he can be singled out. On Saturday he was surely one of our better players and yet he is singled out.

Bergen, have you watched the video yet?

Yes, but to be honest my main focus was on our tempo and attacking rhythm. I think Collins had a better game than McGahey, who I hope learned a thing or two from the game.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Basham was the first to give McGahey the bollocking after the first goal and that shocked me. I agree a young lad needs an arm around him not a bollocking but football culture is harsh.

Generally speaking, I agree. But much like how Clough would tailor his handling of players to the individual in question, so too players might do that on the pitch. I've no idea what McGahey's personality is like, but if he's a confident even arrogant sort, perhaps a bollocking is precisely what was required.

 

[Deadbat]

I agree the other 'big lads' are even worse at corners than Collins. Basham, Sammon, McGahey, Edgar never look like scoring and rarely even get their head on the ball.

Collins may give 100%. Not doubting that. He is old and very limited as you say. We keep having this ' we are singling people out'. Well someone must be at bloody fault for us being miles off automatic promotion every year (since the first attempt when Collins was one of the weak links I felt in a decent side - you would have picked maybe 8 or 9 others before him in that team).

I don't agree he was one of our better players at all Saturday. He was poor. If we are content with individual performances like that the we are accepting total mediocrity. Many more were as poor as my ratings showed in my opinion. Specifically for Collins, I cannot remember many great tackles, clearances, blocks but I do recall a number of errors 9he let them in 3 times when they miscontrolled it and chance went awry) and the gripe about his inability to not defend deep remains. This in turn sets up our whole side in the wrong position. Whilst some keep defending the likes of Collins, Howard, McEveley, Flynn etc we continue to put up with on the whole footballers who are simply not good enough to get out of this league. Its not about scapegoating, its about pointing out the bleeding obvious. They are not good enough.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I agree the other 'big lads' are even worse at corners than Collins. Basham, Sammon, McGahey, Edgar never look like scoring and rarely even get their head on the ball.

Collins may give 100%. Not doubting that. He is old and very limited as you say. We keep having this ' we are singling people out'. Well someone must be at bloody fault for us being miles off automatic promotion every year (since the first attempt when Collins was one of the weak links I felt in a decent side - you would have picked maybe 8 or 9 others before him in that team).

I don't agree he was one of our better players at all Saturday. He was poor. If we are content with individual performances like that the we are accepting total mediocrity. Many more were as poor as my ratings showed in my opinion. Specifically for Collins, I cannot remember many great tackles, clearances, blocks but I do recall a number of errors 9he let them in 3 times when they miscontrolled it and chance went awry) and the gripe about his inability to not defend deep remains. This in turn sets up our whole side in the wrong position. Whilst some keep defending the likes of Collins, Howard, McEveley, Flynn etc we continue to put up with on the whole footballers who are simply not good enough to get out of this league. Its not about scapegoating, its about pointing out the bleeding obvious. They are not good enough.

Fair enough comments but we are where we are and IMO Collins is not one of our worst problems for the time being.

The manager has chosen to sign two strikers, a central defender, one leader in midfield, another midfielder and they were the priority positions as far as I was concerned ( all bar the Woolford signing that is) and keeper should be his next priority. Fact remains we have a large squad of contracted players who will not be sorted out until next summer and beyond. In the meantime we have to hope such as Collins does us a job, there's no alternative unless some club comes in to pay their wages on loan and that is pie in the sky. No point wishing for things which can't happen and have to work through. The new owners have invested plenty already and it would be crazy to bloat the squad more. We should have enough and the manager has to find the right formation and a settled side. Collins will be in it in all likelihood.

 

[Martin]

It's saying something when the manager blames the match officials rather than the players themselves for yet another poor performance. you can only blame someone else for so long before the fans start turning on him up the blades

 

[Deadbat]

Fair enough comments but we are where we are and IMO Collins is not one of our worst problems for the time being.

The manager has chosen to sign two strikers, a central defender, one leader in midfield, another midfielder and they were the priority positions as far as I was concerned ( all bar the Woolford signing that is) and keeper should be his next priority. Fact remains we have a large squad of contracted players who will not be sorted out until next summer and beyond. In the meantime we have to hope such as Collins does us a job, there's no alternative unless some club comes in to pay their wages on loan and that is pie in the sky. No point wishing for things which can't happen and have to work through. The new owners have invested plenty already and it would be crazy to bloat the squad more. We should have enough and the manager has to find the right formation and a settled side. Collins will be in it in all likelihood.

That's the reason why we don't improve. We settle for mediocre to poor players like Howard and Collins. Everyone can see that the 2 centre halves and keeper have been an issue for 2 years but nobody has done anything about it. We continue to play the players we have done and we don't go up. Having a settled side is no good when we keep tossing goals away. Cant see how it can gat any worse but changing the defence more? Letting in 3's and 2's at home constantly is simply unacceptable.

Just hoping likes of Collins will do a job (when he has proved incapable for a number of years) is the reason we wont go up. We need to be ruthless and changing the team and bringing in better players is the only way we will do this. It may cost more money but if we don't go up this year, the cuts will be dramatic and we might have to watch players akin to the standard of Collins and Howard for many more years. We will have no choice. Adkins does not keep saying 'we have to go up this year' for no other reason then we have to. I think we will struggle and could be hear again next year but as JP alludes to the consequences of failing to go up means it could be an even longer wait.

 

[Rodders]

That's the reason why we don't improve. We settle for mediocre to poor players like Howard and Collins. Everyone can see that the 2 centre halves and keeper have been an issue for 2 years but nobody has done anything about it. We continue to play the players we have done and we don't go up. Having a settled side is no good when we keep tossing goals away. Cant see how it can gat any worse but changing the defence more? Letting in 3's and 2's at home constantly is simply unacceptable.

Just hoping likes of Collins will do a job (when he has proved incapable for a number of years) is the reason we wont go up. We need to be ruthless and changing the team and bringing in better players is the only way we will do this. It may cost more money but if we don't go up this year, the cuts will be dramatic and we might have to watch players akin to the standard of Collins and Howard for many more years. We will have no choice. Adkins does not keep saying 'we have to go up this year' for no other reason then we have to. I think we will struggle and could be hear again next year but as JP alludes to the consequences of failing to go up means it could be an even longer wait.

Indeed, the longer we stay down here, and the more "established" we become, the pool of talent willing to come to us (both playing and managing) diminishes further and further each year. At the end of last season, I was prepared to give Clough time, but Adkins is a fantastic appointment for us in the situation we are in - we really must allow him the chance to bring his own players in and build his squad as he sees fit.

 

[Darthblade]

Doesn't seem more than a few weeks ago people on here were wanting Collins back,

is he worse than any of the others? Again people were bigging up Edgar, now its hes not

the answer, I hope we can get a fit Kennedy in and on a run he seems our best centre half

at the club at the moment, I reckon Edgar will be fit for next week and will partner Collins

has to get better soon, surely?

I don't think many were actually wanting Collins back ...... more they were wanting an actual CH to play CH for a change. We actually need 2 new CHs who are strong, dominant and eat strikers for breakfast, but then again we also need a GK who can command his area, a winger who can cross a ball, a striker with pace who can score goals ........ the list goes on !!
UTB & FTP

 

[Woodwardfan]

That's the reason why we don't improve. We settle for mediocre to poor players like Howard and Collins. Everyone can see that the 2 centre halves and keeper have been an issue for 2 years but nobody has done anything about it. We continue to play the players we have done and we don't go up. Having a settled side is no good when we keep tossing goals away. Cant see how it can gat any worse but changing the defence more? Letting in 3's and 2's at home constantly is simply unacceptable.

Just hoping likes of Collins will do a job (when he has proved incapable for a number of years) is the reason we wont go up. We need to be ruthless and changing the team and bringing in better players is the only way we will do this. It may cost more money but if we don't go up this year, the cuts will be dramatic and we might have to watch players akin to the standard of Collins and Howard for many more years. We will have no choice. Adkins does not keep saying 'we have to go up this year' for no other reason then we have to. I think we will struggle and could be hear again next year but as JP alludes to the consequences of failing to go up means it could be an even longer wait.

Agree with all that but the new manager can only do so much at once.

Considering the past expenditure by Clough and after paying him off, plus his entourage, the Board have done very well to boost the budget for Adkins. From then on it's up to the manager, but I for one understand why he chose to pin his hopes on Collins for a while. I'm sure by choice in last Saturday's team he wouldn't be picking Collins, Howard, Freeman, Wallace, Ryce or playing Basham in midfield but due to injuries and sheer numbers in the squad that's how it is and he has to get on with it.

For our own sakes in central defence we need Collins to succeed, Edgar to improve, Kennedy to get fit and hopefully Basham to move back. We also need Brayford and Harris to get match fit quickly, plus Alcock because we are also exposed just as much at full back IMO. Just mentioning all those set to return from injury reminds me how hard it's been on the manager - we can't simply replace injured players as and when. Hopefully in 3/4 weeks he'll have a full squad to pick from and maybe then Collins will be on the bench.

Interesting discussion and keep up the good work Deadbat, reading your reports is one of the highlights of the week on here and I agree with 95% of what you say.

 

[Darthblade]

Collins does win more headers than any of our other defenders and does put his body on the line but he should only be back up for me. He makes an awful lot of mistakes and has since the day he joined. He has played every league game this season and for me that is a big reason, not the only one, why we concede so many

I agree .... Collins has never been better than a "squad player" for me and since its now clear that nothing will be happening in the transfer market between now and (probably ) the end of January ( I believe we made an agreement years ago that we cannot sign a player at the start of the transfer window ) we need to look at the defence until ( hopefully ) NA can bring in 2 x CH.

I regret to say that by the end of January our brief flirtation with the play-off positions will probably be quite tenuous so another season in this agricultural Division is beckoning. Perhaps the answer is to forget about promotion, as its just too much for this underperforming squad and simply try to enjoy the odd decent game.

Im sad to say that quite a few supporters who were very positive about this year will almost certainly be very disappointed in May !!
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Was saying this at half time. Why the hell aren't we putting it about more ? surely our backroom staff/players could see the type of game being played out ?

We're as soft as shite and so easy to play against.

Regrettably, we are not capable of "putting it about a bit" which is why we're staring down the barrel of 6 straight seasons in this agricultural Division. We have learned little from the first 5 seasons so far .......
We're still trying to build a team which can play in the Championship next season ........ the problem is that we haven't got out of this fucker yet and the squad that can do well in the Championship can't get out of this Division !!
UTB & FTP

 

[Woodwardfan]

I agree .... Collins has never been better than a "squad player" for me and since its now clear that nothing will be happening in the transfer market between now and (probably ) the end of January ( I believe we made an agreement years ago that we cannot sign a player at the start of the transfer window ) we need to look at the defence until ( hopefully ) NA can bring in 2 x CH.

I regret to say that by the end of January our brief flirtation with the play-off positions will probably be quite tenuous so another season in this agricultural Division is beckoning. Perhaps the answer is to forget about promotion, as its just too much for this underperforming squad and simply try to enjoy the odd decent game.

Im sad to say that quite a few supporters who were very positive about this year will almost certainly be very disappointed in May !!
UTB & FTP

The important Hammond signing has to be influential on the remainder of our season. He has had a modest start but he has to be a lot better than that surely.

If he is leader and a strong presence in midfield. If we can then move Basham into the Back 4.

And if we strike the right balance and a settled formation and side, we could still win this league. There's bags of time and all the other hopefuls are inconsistent too. It might be a poor league but there are no easy games and no certain three points, if that makes sense.

 

[Darthblade]

All Millwall's forwards were effective as were their central defensive bullies, but the stand out player for me was No21, George Saville,22 year old on loan from Wolves. Tidy, combative midfielder with loads of composure. Turns out he played on loan for 44 games in Brentford's promotion year and then for 7 games in Bristol City's promotion year. Not that we need any more midfielders or do we?

Well I for one would say yes we do, because most of our midfield players on the books currently are either midgets or ineffective in this agricultural division, or both !! many people comment that 4 - 4 - 2 isn't a good system because you need 3 in CM to avoid being over-run. Milwall played 4 - 4 - 2 against us and we certainly didn't over-run them and we rarely looked like troubling them .....

Its just that we have ineffective players ...... nothing wrong with 4 - 4 - 2.
UTB & FTP

 

[Deadbat]

Agree with all that but the new manager can only do so much at once.

Considering the past expenditure by Clough and after paying him off, plus his entourage, the Board have done very well to boost the budget for Adkins. From then on it's up to the manager, but I for one understand why he chose to pin his hopes on Collins for a while. I'm sure by choice in last Saturday's team he wouldn't be picking Collins, Howard, Freeman, Wallace, Ryce or playing Basham in midfield but due to injuries and sheer numbers in the squad that's how it is and he has to get on with it.

For our own sakes in central defence we need Collins to succeed, Edgar to improve, Kennedy to get fit and hopefully Basham to move back. We also need Brayford and Harris to get match fit quickly, plus Alcock because we are also exposed just as much at full back IMO. Just mentioning all those set to return from injury reminds me how hard it's been on the manager - we can't simply replace injured players as and when. Hopefully in 3/4 weeks he'll have a full squad to pick from and maybe then Collins will be on the bench.

Interesting discussion and keep up the good work Deadbat, reading your reports is one of the highlights of the week on here and I agree with 95% of what you say.

Cheers for comments

Enjoy good discussion like this

 

[Balham]

Agree that he did well. Our typical midfielder is great at some things, but rubbish at others. Saville and Morsy would look a good central duo, both competitive, both comfortable on the ball; both young and probably available within our price range...

All those attributes you've listed for Morsy and Saville are the polar opposite of what our scouting profile seems to believe makes a strong central midfielder. It baffles me.

 

[Roygbiv]

We are a poor side but I still think on paper we , along with Wigan, have the best squad in the league. What we lack is character throughout the side. We are so naive and timid that clubs with lesser but braver players come to upset us and we don't have the mentality to cope with it. There is no back bone to the side.


Kevin Gage and Jamie Hoyland have been on twitter this weekend talking about the weak nature of the squad and its true. We have assembled a squad of namby pamby players who wouldn't say boo to a goose. There doesn't seem to be any truly strong characters in the entire squad.

 

[robbiez666]

All those attributes you've listed for Morsy and Saville are the polar opposite of what our scouting profile seems to believe makes a strong central midfielder. It baffles me.

Why we weren't in for Morsy whilst they were having a sale was beyond me.

 

[Snipersdream13]

If both goals were down to McGahey then I'm even more beffudled by the damning criticism of Collins on this thread and on the Ratings poll. He carried McGahey throughout the 95 minutes and must have cleared up 75% of Millwall attacks. If he was not to blame for either goal then he was immense defensively IMO. In the absence of McEveley I think he is the next scapegoat but if we have to have one please knock him when criticism is warranted.

As for Howard, I fully relate to Deadbat's comment that you can never quite remember any significant save he makes. Sometimes he lets poor goals in but he never surprises on the up-side. Regrettably George Long has been very similar in that respect though he at least has time to improve and I think he will. Too big a gamble for a promotion season though. We need a new keeper but look what's been spent already as quoted by Phipps on Facebook.

DB's rating is a fair IMO Collins never carried McGahey they were as bad as each other.

 

[Bergen Blade]

All those attributes you've listed for Morsy and Saville are the polar opposite of what our scouting profile seems to believe makes a strong central midfielder. It baffles me.

It may well be the case that Baxter, Coutts and Reed have more ability on the ball than both of them, and Basham and Scougall may beat them in a marathon. But in terms of all round ability players like Saville and Morsy seem easier to fit into a side, while our midfield options must fit together perfectly with the rest of the team if they are going to be effective.

Clough tried all kind of tweaks to make us work last season, but never found the same kind of balance in midfield that he did with Doyle, Coady and Scougall in 2013/14. At the moment Adkins is struggling with the same problem, and the fact that he's not quite settled on a particular formation has also complicated things.

 

[Revolution]

It may well be the case that Baxter, Coutts and Reed have more ability on the ball than both of them, and Basham and Scougall may beat them in a marathon. But in terms of all round ability players like Saville and Morsy seem easier to fit into a side, while our midfield options must fit together perfectly with the rest of the team if they are going to be effective.

Clough tried all kind of tweaks to make us work last season, but never found the same kind of balance in midfield that he did with Doyle, Coady and Scougall in 2013/14. At the moment Adkins is struggling with the same problem, and the fact that he's not quite settled on a particular formation has also complicated things.

Our midfielders are all really one dimensional. None of them do more than one thing well and some if them do nothing well. Crucially, none of them except Baxter score goals. Hammond is the same. There are also few assists from midfield.