Is Kevin McCabe the best chairman we've ever had?

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derekacorah said:
Accounts = Fact, you had "maybe" in your response. Why would he write the money off when it's earning him interest each year?
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Part of the deal. KM said he had agreed to write off monies owing to him and his companies as part of attracting the prince to the club.

He didn't say when but the prince only paid £1 for 50% of the company. I did say "maybe" but it makes sense to me and do you know any different?

The sale of the club for £1 must have had certain provisos. KM is not a particularly good football man but he is an excellent businessman.

What do you think? Maybe?

Like you apparently, I have a business background and if I had been KM, although desperate, I would not throw it away. KM appeared to give a lot away very quickly. He will have protected himself in some form or other.
 
Woodwardfan said:
In truth the hotel is a miniscule part of his personal wealth which is hard to estimate these days after he latest recovery in the commercial property sector. The freehold at Bramall Lane and the hotel were assigned to McCabe in return for him writing off equivalent debt owed by the club to him, at values professionally undertaken at the time.

As for his personal losses, which are also his family losses don't forget and not all of his family may be so bessoted with the Blades, a conservative estimate of their losses would be £50m even allowing for the current value of his half share in a League 1 football club.

I look upon McCabe these days almost as part of my family, say a kindly uncle who always tried his best to do the right thing but never quite hit the spot, always there when needed, always dependable, trustworthy and first to help out in a crisis; the family organiser, the one who worked hardest to keep the wider family together and yet the one whose jokes always fell flat, had bad breath, never got any thanks, indeed is invariably detested and distrusted by the very family memebers he was trying to help; why? because they resented him for trying so hard and interfering and all his efforts made them feel small and guilty about themselves.

The prince? Well he's the new, mysterious new uncle who's turned up out of the blue from the Middle East and has suddenly become part of the family. He's like muscled in on family affairs and threatens Uncle Kev at the hub of the family. He looks and acts the part of a genial type, comfortable in his substantial skin, quiet and sociable. We are told he has loads of cash but none of us really know and we are told he is reputable by Uncle Kev but who knows. Some of my cousins are excited by him and others are threatened by him and will never trust him unless he leaves them a bloody great legacy, that's what family respect is all about - what they can get out of him, not all that effort and care he gives; they want a big fat legacy and Kev will leave them diddly squat unless they count that new uncle he traced when he did the family tree research;)

Uncle Kevin has put his money where his mouth is and failed to date. I think he and his family want out now and will gradually be phased out by the prince. He couldn't have tried harder and he has done so many things right, however he has made simply atrocious choices of managers and has defied the law of averages by appointing disaster after disaster without finding just the one who could have realised his dreams for him. The new bloke seems to have more fresh ambition and that helps him make better managerial choices by the looks of it.
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McCabe took debt of an equivalent amount to the freehold value when the ground was transferred. He didn't take as repayment of debt owed to him. If that was the case he wouldn't have had to write so much off.
 
T
Woodwardfan said:
There is the matter of ethics, pride and reputation of individuals and the club.

Those involved with clubs or any companies which go into administration do suffer by it and certainly the duty to creditors is a serious one for anybody. That bothers some people and not others.
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The biggest loser in an admin situation would have been McCabe himself.
 
I believe Terry Robinson was responsible for appointing Robson, albeit KM must have approved the appointment. Since John Hassall I don't think any other of the chairmen have been actual supporters apart from Woolhouse and Hinchcliffe (was he actually chairman for a short time?). I have always been wary of people who are not supporters who come into a club. They are there to get money out. I am sure that no other chairman has put in anything like the money that KM has. He did get us into the Premier League. In my memory I would say he is a true supporter and the best chairman we have had.
 
Sean Thornton said:
McCabe took debt of an equivalent amount to the freehold value when the ground was transferred. He didn't take as repayment of debt owed to him. If that was the case he wouldn't have had to write so much off.
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If that makes sense to you, OK.
 
Sean Thornton said:
T



The biggest loser in an admin situation would have been McCabe himself.
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That's if you think United had value at the time of the potential Administration, without KM's further cash at the time, would they have been regarded as a "going concern", certainly not. Hey, it's not my "thing" that KM has saved us or that potential Admin would have been anything other than an open invitation to a "chancer/ shrewd businessman" to join us with a view to selling us on, or even taking us on to great things.

Admin on the other hand might well have invited some prat like Trevor Birch as the appointed Administrator like he was at Portsmouth after his time with us. Nevertheless could Pompey be on the way back - I hope so for the sake of their fans.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Part of the deal. KM said he had agreed to write off monies owing to him and his companies as part of attracting the prince to the club.

He didn't say when but the prince only paid £1 for 50% of the company. I did say "maybe" but it makes sense to me and do you know any different?

The sale of the club for £1 must have had certain provisos. KM is not a particularly good football man but he is an excellent businessman.

What do you think? Maybe?

Like you apparently, I have a business background and if I had been KM, although desperate, I would not throw it away. KM appeared to give a lot away very quickly. He will have protected himself in some form or other.
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He has in the form of a £25m loan from his companies to SUFC PLC on which he's earning market rate interest each year. 2012 it's not in the accounts, 2013 and 2014 it is. So to say he's written off what he's owed is inaccurate. It appears that it hasn't even reduced apart from the capital and interest repayments made. If in 2015 if disappears then we'll know he has but until then what he's said and what is in the accounts don't correlate. Sorry to knock him off his pedestal but it's fact.
 
derekacorah said:
He has in the form of a £25m loan from his companies to SUFC PLC on which he's earning market rate interest each year. 2012 it's not in the accounts, 2013 and 2014 it is. So to say he's written off what he's owed is inaccurate. It appears that it hasn't even reduced apart from the capital and interest repayments made. If in 2015 if disappears then we'll know he has but until then what he's said and what is in the accounts don't correlate. Sorry to knock him off his pedestal but it's fact.
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The prince joined us in September 2013. The company accounts for 2014 were for the year ending June 2014. My above comments hold good.
 
Woodwardfan said:
That's if you think United had value at the time of the potential Administration, without KM's further cash at the time, would they have been regarded as a "going concern", certainly not. Hey, it's not my "thing" that KM has saved us or that potential Admin would have been anything other than an open invitation to a "chancer/ shrewd businessman" to join us with a view to selling us on, or even taking us on to great things.

Admin on the other hand might well have invited some prat like Trevor Birch as the appointed Administrator like he was at Portsmouth after his time with us. Nevertheless could Pompey be on the way back - I hope so for the sake of their fans.
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If the value at any time was less than McCabes outstanding financial input, he loses anything unsecured. It's difficult to know whether your pro or anti at times or merely looking to portray some wide knowledge the rest of us aren't privvy to. Most of us call them opinions though.
 
Revolution said:
I'm sorry, but this is untrue. It is flat out wrong. It is not hindsight.

Everyone thought it was a lousy appointment. You can't even remember his time at Bradford, which proved how awful he was. Fans of other clubs were laughing about it.

I'm sure you thought it as a good idea as you'd defend McCabe pissing in your cornflakes.
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Lousy is being kind.
 
Sean Thornton said:
If the value at any time was less than McCabes outstanding financial input, he loses anything unsecured. It's difficult to know whether your pro or anti at times or merely looking to portray some wide knowledge the rest of us aren't privvy to. Most of us call them opinions though.
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I'll have to think that one through, bit of a weird comment though.

I'm privy to nothing you are not privy to. Whether I have a wider knowledge matters not to me. I'd like to say I am happy to discuss and learn but I tried to ignore this thread for a while. I think I hoped my analogy this morning might have been the end of my contribution but it's been raining all day here and, well you know., did my ironing, no cricket on, retired and bored... I like that bloke/ lass derekokorah though, he/she can add value.
 
blade too long said:
so your saying he had 3 good seasons followed by a bad one
he got boro up
they stayed there, (we didnt)
and he kept west brom up against the odds (again we didnt )
so we knew hed be crap mmm, well argued
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He got Boro up?

Spent a kings ransom doing so, our lass could have got Boro up with that budget.
 
Woodwardfan said:
That's if you think United had value at the time of the potential Administration, without KM's further cash at the time, would they have been regarded as a "going concern", certainly not. Hey, it's not my "thing" that KM has saved us or that potential Admin would have been anything other than an open invitation to a "chancer/ shrewd businessman" to join us with a view to selling us on, or even taking us on to great things.

Admin on the other hand might well have invited some prat like Trevor Birch as the appointed Administrator like he was at Portsmouth after his time with us. Nevertheless could Pompey be on the way back - I hope so for the sake of their fans.
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Trevor Birch and Charles Green - dream team?
Add in Robson and Turry, where do we get these fuckers from?
 

Woodwardfan said:
The prince joined us in September 2013. The company accounts for 2014 were for the year ending June 2014. My above comments hold good.
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McCabe was quoted in the Star in November 2013 saying he had written off £35m and undertaken to pay certain other costs.

Possibly this relates to the £37m figure shown in the 2014 accounts in the administrative expenses breakdown and the subsequent provision to nullify it.

The £25m loans and interest details are clearly detailed in the notes to the accounts.
 
Woodwardfan said:
I'll have to think that one through, bit of a weird comment though.

I'm privy to nothing you are not privy to. Whether I have a wider knowledge matters not to me. I'd like to say I am happy to discuss and learn but I tried to ignore this thread for a while. I think I hoped my analogy this morning might have been the end of my contribution but it's been raining all day here and, well you know., did my ironing, no cricket on, retired and bored... I like that bloke/ lass derekokorah though, he/she can add value.
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If you need to think it through, maybe insolvency is your financial Achilles Heel?
 
Woodwardfan said:
The prince joined us in September 2013. The company accounts for 2014 were for the year ending June 2014. My above comments hold good.
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Incorrect, the balance sheet position is "as at 30th June 2014" so any impact of the deal with the Prince would have to be included. Keep trying.

What McCabe has done with his "writing off" is in accepting £1 for 50% of the club he's valued the company at £1 instead of holding out for £Xm. The fact is the club is worth what someone will pay for it so he's not actually "written off" anything, he's just accepted that the club wasn't worth what he thought it was.

This is a good gesture in itself by McCabe as he could have held out for more whilst pulling the plug on further funds from his own pocket/businesses.

What he did was allow someone in for minimum upfront investment on the promise that he'll invest over a number of years and hopefully increase the value of McCabes 50% to something like a respectable value.

Short term it looks like he's being kind but long term he's looking after his investment as any sane person would. Win win for him and the club/fans as long as the Prince keeps investing and we become a Championship club.

Whilst this is happening he's getting more interest on his £25m than he would in a bank.

If you actually apply common sense to it instead of sticking up for McCabe at every opportunity you can have a more balanced view, I have no issues with any of the above but back to the point he's not "written off" a penny.
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
He got Boro up?

Spent a kings ransom doing so, our lass could have got Boro up with that budget.
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well Ive heard complaints we had biggest budget but we aint got up

blackburn spent millions on rhodes etc , didnt go up
derby underr mclaren got in ince and others , they didnt do it
boro spent loads last season , didnt make it
 
derekacorah said:
Incorrect, the balance sheet position is "as at 30th June 2014" so any impact of the deal with the Prince would have to be included. Keep trying.

What McCabe has done with his "writing off" is in accepting £1 for 50% of the club he's valued the company at £1 instead of holding out for £Xm. The fact is the club is worth what someone will pay for it so he's not actually "written off" anything, he's just accepted that the club wasn't worth what he thought it was.

This is a good gesture in itself by McCabe as he could have held out for more whilst pulling the plug on further funds from his own pocket/businesses.

What he did was allow someone in for minimum upfront investment on the promise that he'll invest over a number of years and hopefully increase the value of McCabes 50% to something like a respectable value.

Short term it looks like he's being kind but long term he's looking after his investment as any sane person would. Win win for him and the club/fans as long as the Prince keeps investing and we become a Championship club.

Whilst this is happening he's getting more interest on his £25m than he would in a bank.

If you actually apply common sense to it instead of sticking up for McCabe at every opportunity you can have a more balanced view, I have no issues with any of the above but back to the point he's not "written off" a penny.
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The point I made above was that the actual writing-off of the debt could well be awaiting a stage when the prince has invested a pre-agreed amount. KM would be silly to write off the debt before the prince has invested sufficient solid cash into the club. That stage is expected at an early stage and that might well be in the 2015 financial year.
 
blade too long said:
well Ive heard complaints we had biggest budget but we aint got up

blackburn spent millions on rhodes etc , didnt go up
derby underr mclaren got in ince and others , they didnt do it
boro spent loads last season , didnt make it
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Steve Gibson at the time had more in the bank than McCabe, Robson nearly ruined Gibson, he would have ruined McCabe given a little more time, he certainly ruined Sheffield United in the short time he was manager. He was an ignorant twat too, you could pass him in the corridor under the stand and he would blank you, later I did come to wonder why he would be making his way to the dressing room as the game was about to kick off.
 
Woodwardfan said:
The point I made above was that the actual writing-off of the debt could well be awaiting a stage when the prince has invested a pre-agreed amount. KM would be silly to write off the debt before the prince has invested sufficient solid cash into the club. That stage is expected at an early stage and that might well be in the 2015 financial year.
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Call me old fashioned but I prefer fact to fiction. McCabe might drop a couple of ludes get his tackle out and belt out Annie's Song at the next home game but until he does I'll stick with the fact that he's showed no signs in his past dealings that he will do this so it's highly unlikely.

Extreme example above but the future write off is as likely to happen as the above scenario based on past behaviours. When the club is sold McCabe may agree to write all/some of his £25m off based on the fact that he will have earned £Xm interest over the years on it or he may not. If he doesn't he will not sell the club as it isn't worth £50m (he owns 50% remember) and won't be in the foreseeable future.

I know for a fact that the Pigs were valued at £10m and the balance of the £38m that Tuna Tom paid was to pay Milan off and investment over the next 3 years. We are not worth more than them given current financial and league status.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Silly Kevin?

http://m.thestar.co.uk/sport/sheff-...ited-mccabe-hands-blades-a-35m-lift-1-6264757
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Thanks for that Sean, that's how I remember it. I had a look at the 2014 accounts on the club website and there's no mention of anything to do with the prince or his appointees as at 30th June 2014.

There must be an agreed trigger when the book entries are effected. No way can that such a fundamental principle of the deal be ignored without the whole relationship collapsing and in any case it will all be contractual. The prince said at the time that being debt free led him to Sheffield rather than Leeds when he was doing due dilligences.

If I go to the AGM I'll ask the question if it is still an outstanding matter. I missed last year's meeting.
 
derekacorah said:
Call me old fashioned but I prefer fact to fiction. McCabe might drop a couple of ludes get his tackle out and belt out Annie's Song at the next home game but until he does I'll stick with the fact that he's showed no signs in his past dealings that he will do this so it's highly unlikely.

Extreme example above but the future write off is as likely to happen as the above scenario based on past behaviours. When the club is sold McCabe may agree to write all/some of his £25m off based on the fact that he will have earned £Xm interest over the years on it or he may not. If he doesn't he will not sell the club as it isn't worth £50m (he owns 50% remember) and won't be in the foreseeable future.

I know for a fact that the Pigs were valued at £10m and the balance of the £38m that Tuna Tom paid was to pay Milan off and investment over the next 3 years. We are not worth more than them given current financial and league status.
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You talk of KM selling the club but don't you think the involvement of the prince has moved all that on? I reckon the club will gradually be taken over by the prince in instalments over say a 5/7 year period. As far as I am aware KM is not actively looking for a buyer these days. Or is he?
 

tou have to consider if Tuna in brine fc are admitting losing 5 to 6m a year in the championship its not that unfeasable we are losing 8 to 10 million a year

the 2 mccabe and the prince are sharing this black hole even before spending anything on players
why do some of our fans think we are different from other clubs and that we are generating bundles of cash they think mccabe is pocketing
running a league one club is akin to taking a bucket full of twenties out of your bank and burning them every day
 
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