Tevez joins Man Utd

[sendô WHU]

vilification from football fans countrywide...)

That doesnt bother me. Brings on a siege mentality that spurs us (and it seemed at the end of last season, the players) on. It's preferable to the whole "West Ham are everyone's second team" nauseating shite.

Give it a few months and everyone will find someone else to hate.

As for possible relegation, I'm 100% confident that won't happen. The PL have made their decision and will not (or cannot) renege on that.

 

[matth]

Was the whole 'West Ham are everyone's second team' thing true? I've always disliked them, although I did quite like Julian Dicks.

 

[sendô WHU]

Well it seemed to be at the end of the 2006 season, though I'm sure you'd get a different response from Spurs or Millwall fans.

 

[silverfox]

Latest from the Yorkshire Post............

SHEFFIELD UNITED chairman Kevin McCabe has revealed that the club's fight for re-instatement to the Premier League is far from over.
The Blades are set to rock the Premier League with fresh evidence relating to West Ham United's signing of Argentinian striker Carlos Tevez.

It could yet prompt a review into the decision not to dock the Hammers points last season and pull the Blades out of the relegation zone.

It is understood that Kia Joorabchian, the player's representative, may be willing to help by passing on material after falling out with the Hammers amid negotiations relating to Tevez's proposed move to Manchester United.

Joorabchian says he still owns the player's economic rights and should be entitled to a bulk of the proposed £30m fee rather than the Hammers who still hold the player's registration.

But the Hammers say that agreement was ripped up after the Premier League's disciplinary panel imposed a £5.5m fine three games before the end of the season – which also allowed Tevez to carry on playing a key role in their battle against the drop.

The Blades have been fighting a bitter legal battle against the League, but appeared to have lost the fight for a Premiership reprieve last week when an independent arbitration panel backed the decision of the original disciplinary panel.

McCabe vowed to fight on for compensation, which could be as high as £50m, and the club are due to return to the High Court tomorrow.

But last night, McCabe said: "Don't discount what might happen in the next few days. This issue is not finished as far as we are concerned.

"We have found out more. It has taken time because everyone is reluctant, but we have 'further information'. We have put it back professionally to the Premier League where we are still looking for answers. Sheffield United will not be pushed around."

Tevez's move to Manchester United is in limbo after the Hammers rejected a written request by the Argentina striker to cancel his playing contract.

The club and the Premier League have also rejected a separate bid by the 23-year-old's representatives to have his registration cancelled – which means the dispute could also be headed towards the law courts.

McCabe commented: "It is ludicrous. Do you expect a company that owns the economic rights to Carlos Tevez and was willing to pay £15m to get them from River Plate to walk away with nothing from his transfer to Manchester United? And do West Ham United expect them to get nothing?

"Behind the scenes we have been digging up information that will be embarrassing for the Premier League to answer. Whether that means we still have to take our place in the Championship, I don't know. This is business and the Premier League have to get hold of that idea – they have to get real," he warned.

The Hammers are aware that if they do anything contrary to the Premier League's instructions they could be left open to further disciplinary action over third-party agreements.

FIFA say they may be prepared to step in to settle the transfer dispute, but have yet to receive any official request to do so.

Football's world governing body can become involved if there is an international element to a transfer or if they are asked by the FA.

Tevez's move to United has stalled due to the Premier League's insistence that West Ham must receive the bulk of the reported £30m fee.

Manchester United have agreed terms with Tevez and Joorabchian and hoped to have everything tied up last week, but the deal has now reached an impasse.

Two letters, one from Tevez and one from his representatives, arrived with West Ham on Tuesday in an attempt to kick-start the transfer in the the same type of deal that took Argentinian midfielder Javier Mascherano from Upton Park to Liverpool last season.

In order to do so, the Hammers would have to agree to cancel his registration, but it is understood both the club and the Premier League have refused to do so.

 

[jodman]

I don't know anyone who has ever regarded west ham as their second team, I think that teams like Newcastle, Liverpool and Arsenal are the more common second teams because of the way they play / played football.

West ham may have gained some neutral supporters in the cup final last year but that tends to happen when an underdog appears on such a stage.

I also think that the tainted reputation of west ham will come out in the wash as the season progresses, with only a few clubs maintaining any ill feelings towards them (we will definitely be one of those clubs).

 

[matth]

There could be some players, and indeed chairmen and managers, who West Ham find are unwilling to work with them, though.

 

[jodman]

I doubt it will efect the hammers too much; they seem to have conducted their business with few problems this summer. I personally think that Darren Bent decided against joining them because he was made aware of Spurs interest.

 

[sendô WHU]

There could be some players, and indeed chairmen and managers, who West Ham find are unwilling to work with them, though.

Well West Ham already seem unwilling to work with Wigan who want Marlon Harewood. It could well end up the same with Sheff Utd, though I expect that will lessen as time goes on. After all, football is a business.

 

[Robbie]

I personally wouldn't want to take any players from WHU, yes they have individuals who are more talented than a lot of our players. But the less we have to do with a corrupt club the better.

This however is not aimed at the fans.

 

[Bladesman]

This however is not aimed at the fans.

Ive given up with the certain group of west ham fans that still believe they havnt really done anything wrong. Some of them have got claret and blue specs glued to there face.

 

[Come from away]

WHU did wrong, were punished (though lightly), the rest of the crap is the responsibility of the PL and they should fix it.

 

[matth]

But if they lied then surely some of the onus is on them too?

 

[Robbie]

But if they lied then surely some of the onus is on them too?

They was punished for this lie, again it may have been a light punishment, but ho is that the fault of West Ham as a entity?

 

[jodman]

They was punished for this lie, again it may have been a light punishment, but ho is that the fault of West Ham as a entity?

They are at fault if the third party agreement, which they stated had been 'torn up' in the aftermath of this punishment, is in fact still legally binding.

 

[Robbie]

They are at fault if the third party agreement, which they stated had been 'torn up' in the aftermath of this punishment, is in fact still legally binding.

This is yet to proved though to be honest. Obviously the PL will have to take further action if it is found to be WHU have again lied.

 

[jodman]

This is yet to proved though to be honest. Obviously the PL will have to take further action if it is found to be WHU have again lied.

Indeed it is yet to be proved, that is why i included the IF in my post.

Only a select few know the true nature of the deal and the rest of us are left to debate it until the cows come home (or until Robbo makes another signing!)

I suppose it passes the time on, just 30 days to go

 

[sendô WHU]

They are at fault if the third party agreement, which they stated had been 'torn up' in the aftermath of this punishment, is in fact still legally binding.

No necessarily, it could be that West Ham have torn it up and are willing to risk being sued by Kia etc for breaking a contract so that they can demostrate to the PL that they're no longer under the influence of said contract.

As I see it, that would be perfectly legal from the PLs point of view.

 

[shorehamview]

As Kia Joorabchian said, "If you borrow someone's car, then tear up the log book, that doesn't make you the car's owner."

 

[Robbie]

No necessarily, it could be that West Ham have torn it up and are willing to risk being sued by Kia etc for breaking a contract so that they can demostrate to the PL that they're no longer under the influence of said contract.

As I see it, that would be perfectly legal from the PLs point of view.

No, because the contract itself would still be there and MSI could still sell player on...... so not perfectly legal.

But you and I are just merely speculating, all this of course may be incorrect information we are spouting.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

No necessarily, it could be that West Ham have torn it up and are willing to risk being sued by Kia etc for breaking a contract so that they can demostrate to the PL that they're no longer under the influence of said contract.

As I see it, that would be perfectly legal from the PLs point of view.

Has left things in a state of impasse, though, as far as the proposed transfer to Man Utd is concerned. Man Utd state they have a deal and all has been accepted, West Ham state they have not heard anything from Man Utd.

PL want WHam to be the benefactors of any transfer fee, but if the player is not owned contractually by WHam no fee is due directly to them and that is why Man U state all is agreed because it has been agreed with those who own the players contract (MSI/ Kia Joorabchian). I think somebody is dropped in it up to the eyeballs if the transfer goes through, because the third party were always the ones to benefit and the appalling PL are now getting themselves deeper into the mire by insisting on this clause for the transfer to take place.

If the tearing up of the contract made it simply a case of 'sue us for breach of contract' the transfer would have been agreed, but obviously this isn't how it left things. I think the contractual agreements prevent any fee being paid to West Ham, they know that, Man U know that, Kia Joorabchian knows that and I suspect the PL know as well. So the 'tearing up' was empty gesture at best, and outright deceit at worst. I smell the PL trying dump responsibility back on West Ham.

 

[jodman]

As Kia Joorabchian said, "If you borrow someone's car, then tear up the log book, that doesn't make you the car's owner."

Exactly, the idea of unilaterally terminating a contract is ridiculous. How would West Ham feel if Dean Ashton unilaterally terminated his contract with west ham and joined a decent club on a free transfer.

 

[Foxy]

If the tearing up of the contract made it simply a case of 'sue us for breach of contract' the transfer would have been agreed, but obviously this isn't how it left things. I think the contractual agreements prevent any fee being paid to West Ham, they know that, Man U know that, Kia Joorabchian knows that and I suspect the PL know as well. So the 'tearing up' was empty gesture at best, and outright deceit at worst. I smell the PL trying dump responsibility back on West Ham.

Thats exactly my take on it at the moment.

I think the Premier League will eventually try to shift the blame from themselves by making out they were once again decieved by West Ham, but that they did everything in good faith.

 

[MAQ]

Thats exactly my take on it at the moment.

I think the Premier League will eventually try to shift the blame from themselves by making out they were once again decieved by West Ham, but that they did everything in good faith.

i couldnt agree more with you there foxy. I really do think that the only loosers in this whole thing will be WHU. I strongly believe that the prem will make WHU the scapegoats for the complete inept way of conducting themselves through this whole thing.

It is possible that WHU did actually deceive the prem for a second time, although id be more inclined to believe that the prem agreed to the "Tearing up of the contract" without actually looking into it themselves, thus now causing them even more egg on there faces (Allbeit internally). So all in all WHU will be the more likely losers in this. Cant see any major punishment for them though, maybe a slight points deduction for the start of next season. The prem cant be too harsh on them simply because any punishment given out would be fought by WHU.

Kinda almost makes you start to feel a little sorry for them.........................nah on second thoughts strike that last comment

 

[Robbie]

What has just occured to me is......

Fergie stated he could have signed Tevez last season, but didn't because of the wrangle WHU have found themselves in. What IF he had joined Man United? Would the PL have deducted points from them? Would Chelsea (with them being a bigger and more powerful team) have had more luck with arbitration?? Would Chelsea have actually taken it as far as we have?

 

[MAQ]

chelsea would have taken it as far as we have, although i seriously doubt that they would have needed to. Cant say if manure would have been deducted points, they should have, although a BIGGER fine would more than likely been the case.

In addition to that though there would have been legal implacations and cases brought against manure/fa/uefa by the teams that they kicked out of the cup & champs league etc

 

[sendô WHU]

No, because the contract itself would still be there and MSI could still sell player on...... so not perfectly legal.

But you and I are just merely speculating, all this of course may be incorrect information we are spouting.

But surely they can't sell the player on without the PL and WHs permission?

Though I take your point that this is mere speculation. Though at this time of year what else is there football wise that's of interest?

Cant see any major punishment for them though, maybe a slight points deduction for the start of next season.

In my eyes, any points deduction isn't a minor punishment.

I agree that it could well end up with the blame being poured onto West Ham. Although this whole thing was originally the fault of West Ham (well, Brown and Kia, but that's not the point anymore), it's the Premier League's ineptitude that has caused this whole thing to rumble on like it has.

I can't say I'd be too gutted if McCabe was sucessful in forcing Scudamore and the other chap out.

 

[MAQ]

I can't say I'd be too gutted if McCabe was sucessful in forcing Scudamore and the other chap out.

dare i say that we all seem to be starting to sing from the same hymn sheet!!!

time for some nana's

:nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana:

 

[silverfox]

So is this a challenge to the PL or have they agreed to it?

Who knows.....but I suppose we lose out as usual.



Carlos Tevez will be unveiled as a Manchester United player on Thursday. He will be pictured in a United shirt and hold a scarf aloft during a showy press conference to confirm his controversial arrival at Old Trafford.

The move — revealed on the day Sheffield United lost their High Court battle over the Premier League's failure to deduct points from West Ham — will place extreme pressure on chief executive Richard Scudamore.

The League are so far refusing to sanction the £35million transfer of the Argentina striker who rescued West Ham from relegation last season.

Tevez, 23, will fly in from the Copa America on Tuesday, having taken part in tomorrow's final against Brazil.

He will have a medical at the Carrington training ground on Wednesday and will claim he is a United player the following day — an act of defiance towards the Premier League.

The attitude of United, whose solicitor, Maurice Watkins, has Tevez's owner, Kia Joorabchian, is the deal breaks no rules and there is no legal argument to stop them.

Joorabchian is determined to force through the transfer and Sportsmail understands West Ham and Manchester United have been in close contact and their discussions suggest a deal can be agreed.

The Premier League have insisted the bulk of the fee should be paid to West Ham but Joorabchian says the transfer to Upton Park was a loan deal.

United manager Sir Alex Ferguson has spoken about his joy at landing Tevez, who has cancelled a holiday to join United immediately.

A source close to the deal said: "United would not have put themselves in this position if they did not expect the deal to go through.

"Tevez will arrive as planned and if anyone wishes to stop that they will need to find a legal argument to do so."

Meanwhile, Sheffield United are considering further legal moves despite yesterday's High Court ruling that they have no grounds to challenge an arbitration panel decision that the Premier League had acted within their own rules over Tevez.

The Premier League disciplinary commission imposed a £5.5m fine rather than a points deduction after West Ham were found guilty of acting improperly and withholding documentation regarding the ownership of Tevez and Javier Mascherano.

Sheffield United had hoped to prove the panel made an "error in law" by not ordering a new disciplinary commission.

They were refused the option of taking their case for a £50m compensation claim to offset the cost of relegation to the Court of Appeal, but feel they can take action against the Premier League or West Ham.

And Joorabchian could be facing a legal battle after a Brazilian judge issued a warrant for his arrest on charges of alleged money laundering.

The allegations against Russian tycoon Boris Berezovsky and Joorabchian relate to a 10-year partnership with Corinthians, wiping out debts of £115m. Joorabchian has denied any wrongdoing.

 

[silverfox]

Man Utd tapping up?

Never.........................

From the Independant............

Manchester United could be charged with "tapping up" Carlos Tevez if they continue to push for the striker's £35m transfer without the agreement of the Premier League.

So far the Premiership champions have done nothing wrong in their attempts to sign the 23-year-old Argentine despite the controversy surrounding the complicated saga. But if Tevez flies into Manchester next week for a medical, which his adviser Kia Joorabchian said will take place on Wednesday, United could risk the wrath of the Premier League.

The organisation argue that United should be dealing directly with West Ham United, Tevez's current club and the holders of his registration, and not Joorabchian. Yesterday a Premier League source warned that failure to do so could be a breach of their rules and therefore a case of approaching a contracted player without the permission of his employer. The punishments for the offence range from a fine to a ban on transfer activity for up to two transfer windows.

That stance appears perplexing because Joorabchian received an email four weeks ago from West Ham informing him that they would not be taking up the £40m option to buy Tevez. Since then, however, the Premier League have insisted that it is West Ham who have to do the deal and the club maintains it has had no contact with United and that no offer has been made to them.

At the same time Joorabchian and United admit that they have negotiated a deal with Sir Alex Ferguson declaring he believes Tevez will end up at Old Trafford.

Joorabchian also claims that West Ham have agreed to the deal taking place but the club deny this, declaring that the businessman's actions are "irresponsible", even if, at the same time, club sources have hinted that a breakthrough may come at the beginning of next week.

An impasse was reached after the Premier League declared it would not sanction the transfer unless West Ham kept the largest portion of the transfer fee. This is because the club, after pleading guilty at a disciplinary hearing, gave undertakings that Tevez is solely their player when it tore up the agreement it had with Joorabchian.

The Premier League are demanding that West Ham stick to that undertaking and are refusing to change their stance - and are even threatening to convene a second inquiry - despite concerted pressure from United whose lawyer Maurice Watkins has been tasked with sorting out a deal. Ironically Watkins was on the advisory panel that helped draw up the Premier League rules which West Ham then breached.

He spent last Friday at the organisation's headquarters but failed to change the minds of its chief executive, Richard Scudamore, or its chairman, Dave Richards.

Scudamore has come under increasing pressure over his handling of the affair ever since West Ham were found guilty of acting improperly and withholding documentation over the ownership of Tevez and Javier Mascherano. When the two were registered as players, West Ham failed to disclose that they had entered into an agreement with third-party companies.

There is an appetite at the Premier League for the issue to go to court so that it serves as a warning to clubs and to businessman against such agreements. That would need Joorabchian to sue West Ham, or indeed the Premier League, if he fails to receive the money he believes is due to him as the holder of Tevez's economic rights. However it also appears that he is intent on concluding a deal that would provoke the Premier League into taking action. The problem with that is that the organisation insists it will not hand over Tevez's registration until it is satisfied.

There were further developments yesterday with Sheffield United being refused leave to appeal against the Premier League arbitration panel decision which, itself, upheld the inquiry's verdict that a fine, rather than a points deduction, was the correct punishment for West Ham. The Blades, who are seeking up to £50m in damages for losing Premiership status, will now consider their options after the High Court ruling which failed to back their claim that the panel had made an "error in law". They may also try to pursue a case against West Ham.

Joorabchian, meanwhile, released a statement yesterday denying "any wrongdoing whatsoever" after a Brazilian court issued an international arrest warrant over allegations of money-laundering. The warrant relates to an investigation at Brazilian club Corinthians, of which Joorabchian's company MSI is a major investor. Joorabchian insists all his financial dealings, including international transfers, were cleared by the Brazilian Central Bank.

"The investigation in Brazil has been rumbling on for some considerable time and apparently involves numerous individuals including the president, club officials and partners of Corinthians Football Club," Joorabchian said. "I deny any wrongdoing whatsoever. I have co-operated fully with the authorities in Brazil and have previously offered to speak to them directly, an offer that they have not taken up."

The Brazilian authorities have also issued an arrest warrant for Russian billionaire Boris Berezovsky, who is living in exile in London. Berezovsky has previously denied any business association with Joorabchian - and he denies having "any dealings connected to Carlos Tevez" or any involvement in money-laundering. Indeed Berezovsky is adamant the warrant is "an extension of the Kremlin's politicised campaign against him".

 

[bladeswench]

Premiership - Tevez deal is "over-complicated"

Eurosport - Mon, 16 Jul 08:13:00 2007

Manchester United chief executive David Gill says the Champions are still working on signing Carlos Tevez but confirmed that the deal has become "over-complicated."

With the Copa America now finished, the Argentine striker will fly into Manchester for a medical but Gill confirmed there is still work to be done due to the Premier League's insistence that the deal be arranged with West Ham and not Kia Joorabchian who owns the economic rights to the player.

"The process is ongoing. The player will have a medical at some point this week, then we will take it from there," said Gill.

"In my opinion, it has become over-complicated. Effectively, we are trying to work with four parties; the player, West Ham, the company who own Carlos' economic rights and the Premier League in order to sort it out.

"We still have to sort out the paperwork but we are confident that can be achieved in the course of the next week or so."

Gill and the United squad have flown to Asia for a four-match tour but the club's legal expert Maurice Watkins has remained in England to try and finalise the complex deal.