Wow, the pressure of being at a "Big Club".

[Barney]

Rubbish. Two months is 61 days, do you want him sacked?

Of course not, what will that achieve? but that doesn't stop me from pointing out a vital error he or the board has made in not getting rid of all the dross early and re-building. It could prove very costly.

What will sacking him achieve? The damage is done.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

Depends how old you are and how long you've got, I'm 67

Maybe a wee bit behind you in age at 44, but seen enough to know that histrionics after one competitive match is depressing (just adding to the depression of the match itself). I have read the very valid points regarding the need to put plans into action quickly, but some of the reaction, well, blimey.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Of course not, but that doesn't stop me from pointing out a vital error he or the board has made in not getting rid of all the dross early and re-building. It could prove very costly.

Please explain how he could have possibly done that in two months. Bear in mind contracts and indeed the sense of fair play in assessing each and every individual's strengths and weknesses and ability to contribute, not to say the expense of getting rid of people. Explain please.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Maybe a wee bit behind you in age at 44, but seen enough to know that histrionics after one competitive match is depressing (just adding to the depression of the match itself). I have read the very valid points regarding the need to put plans into action quickly, but some of the reaction, well, blimey.

I think you are in front not behind and good luck to you

 

[Rudders]

Please explain how he could have possibly done that in two months. Bear in mind contracts and indeed the sense of fair play in assessing each and every individual's strengths and weknesses and ability to contribute, not to say the expense of getting rid of people. Explain please.

The pigs manager did it less time than Adkins has had. Cotterill managed it for Bristol City last year in the close season. Wigan have signed 15. No sense of fair play is needed, he and the board should have been ruthless in cutting the dross. All he had to do was watch a lot of our games from the end of last season as part of his 'due diligence'.

 

[SandyMcBlade]

Your lucky young Woody, but I agree he hasn't had time to asses the team properly and lets not forget that if he brings in a bad buy it will stick with him for the rest of his life with some of our fans.
I think he picked a team with four matches in 14 days in mind, but I still expected him to have more savvy about his players and substitutions than he showed on Saturday ...

 

[Barney]

Please explain how he could have possibly done that in two months. Bear in mind contracts and indeed the sense of fair play in assessing each and every individual's strengths and weknesses and ability to contribute, not to say the expense of getting rid of people. Explain please.

Happily.

First of all, they had all last season to prove whether they are good enough, and not many did hence our massive under-performing season.
Ideally the club would have started the process by themselves straight after the play-off defeat. That's if they had a clue what was wrong with the squad. Apparently not. It is easily enough time to sell players, and release ones that were out of contract. How do you think other clubs go on in the summer? Is it impossible for them to sell any players as well? It's what happens in the transfer window. If we had anyone in authority that had an ounce of sense and knew the problems fans had been identifying for the last 5 months of Clough's reign then the process would have been started straight after the play-off defeat or as soon as we sacked Clough. You don't need to have a manager in place to get rid of players you know. But even then if nothing had happened by Adkins appointment, the way he should have approached it was to use extensive video footage of all games last season, and assess their abilities from that if it wasn't already obvious by then. You need to be ruthless if you want to get promoted. But ideally that wouldn't have been needed anyway if anyone at the club knew what was required.

I can certainly tell you what we shouldn't have done, and that's stick with the exact same under-performing squad as last season, plus 3 arguably poor signings, then cross our fingers and hope the rest of the squad will magic an extra 20 points from nowhere, how silly of an approach is that? Turns out not too silly for the ones in charge of our club. Then again we can hardly say it wasn't to be expected given the way they have handled the 4 seasons before last.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Happily.

First of all, they had all last season to prove whether they are good enough, and not many did hence our massive under-performing season.
Ideally the club would have started the process by themselves straight after the play-off defeat. That's if they had a clue what was wrong with the squad. Apparently not. It is easily enough time to sell players, and release ones that were out of contract. How do you think other clubs go on in the summer? Is it impossible for them to sell any players as well? It's what happens in the transfer window. If we had anyone in authority that had an ounce of sense and knew the problems fans had been identifying for the last 5 months of Clough's reign then the process would have been started straight after the play-off defeat or as soon as we sacked Clough. You don't need to have a manager in place to get rid of players you know. But even then if nothing had happened by Adkins appointment, the way he should have approached it was to use extensive video footage of all games last season, and assess their abilities from that if it wasn't already obvious by then. You need to be ruthless if you want to get promoted. But ideally that wouldn't have been needed anyway if anyone at the club knew what was required.

I can certainly tell you what we shouldn't have done, and that's stick with the exact same under-performing squad as last season, plus 3 arguably poor signings, then cross our fingers and hope the rest of the squad will magic an extra 20 points from nowhere, how silly of an approach is that? Turns out not too silly for the ones in charge of our club. Then again we can hardly say it wasn't to be expected given the way they have handled the 4 seasons before last.

Hope that clears things up.

OK, then we fundamentally disagree with how a club should be run. That explains it, fair enough. I trust you understand there are concepts and ways completely different from your own and that those ways of practice have credibility as well as your own. If so, they answer most of your beefs. Wait and watch rather than spout off I suggest.

 

[Bartleby]

Cotterill managed it for Bristol City last year in the close season. '.

Not a valid comparison at all - Cotterill had a full close season and most of the season before - much like Clough did as they started their jobs around the same time. Adkins came in after the retain/release list had been released and after the players had gone on holidays.

 

[Rudders]

I applaud your sense of fair play but this set of players let the club, fans and clough down so many times last year. They don't 'deserve' any special treatment, loyalty or time to be assessed.
I hope Adkins can build us a new team.

 

[Pinchy]

I applaud your sense of fair play but this set of players let the club, fans and clough down so many times last year. They don't 'deserve' any special treatment, loyalty or time to be assessed.
I hope Adkins can build us a new team.

...and that, for the avoidance of doubt, should apply to all players, whether signed from Derby or from the Academy.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

We've lost a game. Manager goes from "Hero to Zero". Some fans making sweeping statements re "Doom and Gloom". One or more even talking about giving us up.

But: Sky Bet still have us as favourites. There are still some 45 games to go.

This is the first time our new manager has seen some of our players not defend set-pieces and players who had impressed him so far. Friendlies arranged before he joined us did not test us in that key area.

Isn't it obvious that the new manager is having a good look at the squad. He needs to give all the players the opportunity to perform and to earn their place in his squad. For some the alternative is unemployment so please don't tell me they don't care.

He has signed two strikers and a wide midfielder to date. Why not defenders? Well he must have judged that the strikers previously at the club were not good enough just now; McNulty, Adams, Higdon, no others don't forget with Done injured, so that is fair enough.

He must have detected that there was some value in our defenders, particularly with the forthcoming return of Kennedy and Brayford in due course. Today he learned a lot and in any case who is to say he is not awaiting the release of a couple of Premier League or Championship players on loan and who he knows very well?

The simple fact is that we have lost 3 points and our manager knows he needs probably 3 defenders before January 31st. I think Basham is one of those defenders, but others prefer him in midfield, that is a prime example of the sort of decision our manager has to make. Another is George Long and I fully agree with him having the opportunity to show the manager what he can do; the lad's whole United career is at stake and he had been OK in pre-season. Added to that Howard's career record and fitness record is modest at best, so it was, and is, a worthy test but now he has started it he has to give him some game time to prove or disprove himself.

Somebody said recently that Adkins is delighted with the quality of the squad he inherited. All of a sudden we all know that is not the case. Adkins tries to spin a positive weave on things but he was critical last night and rightly so. But he is weeks into his tenure here, literally weeks. There's a long way to go, even for this season and certainly beyond.

In summary , i want Adkins Southampton , Adkins Scunthorpe , not Adkins Reading . The guy will have got the job with his CV , being articulate , and a good power point presentation . What i want him now to be , is a ruthless bastard to knock the players into shape , and a board that backs him to the hilt.

Experimentation is over with one match too many in doing so.

UTB

 

[Come from away]

First, we ain't that big, Second, we don't have a barrel of money. Third, get used to it!

 

[Cyprus Blade]

George Long and I fully agree with him having the opportunity to show the manager what he can do; the lad's whole United career is at stake and he had been OK in pre-season.

George Long has played for Sheffield United's first team 80 times in all competitions. He's had long enough and I think most folk have had enough of Long. He's had his chances, time to move him on.

 

[alcoblade]

Happily.

First of all, they had all last season to prove whether they are good enough, and not many did hence our massive under-performing season.
Ideally the club would have started the process by themselves straight after the play-off defeat. That's if they had a clue what was wrong with the squad. Apparently not. It is easily enough time to sell players, and release ones that were out of contract. How do you think other clubs go on in the summer? Is it impossible for them to sell any players as well? It's what happens in the transfer window. If we had anyone in authority that had an ounce of sense and knew the problems fans had been identifying for the last 5 months of Clough's reign then the process would have been started straight after the play-off defeat or as soon as we sacked Clough. You don't need to have a manager in place to get rid of players you know. But even then if nothing had happened by Adkins appointment, the way he should have approached it was to use extensive video footage of all games last season, and assess their abilities from that if it wasn't already obvious by then. You need to be ruthless if you want to get promoted. But ideally that wouldn't have been needed anyway if anyone at the club knew what was required.

I can certainly tell you what we shouldn't have done, and that's stick with the exact same under-performing squad as last season, plus 3 arguably poor signings, then cross our fingers and hope the rest of the squad will magic an extra 20 points from nowhere, how silly of an approach is that? Turns out not too silly for the ones in charge of our club. Then again we can hardly say it wasn't to be expected given the way they have handled the 4 seasons before last.

Hope that clears things up.

It's not remotely as easy to move players on as you suggest. The players who's contracts expired have gone.

Many of the others are playing for a "giant" in league one and are not nearly worth the contracts they have. They won't be wanted or afforded elsewhere. The next move is only downwards for them, and turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

UTB

 

[Barney]

It's not remotely as easy to move players on as you suggest. The players who's contracts expired have gone.

Many of the others are playing for a "giant" in league one and are not nearly worth the contracts they have. They won't be wanted or afforded elsewhere. The next move is only downwards for them, and turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

UTB

Sell them for next to nothing for all I care, at least they won't be getting a wage from us.

 

[alcoblade]

Sell them for next to nothing for all I care, at least they won't be getting a wage from us.

You haven't thought this through, have you?

They won't raise a fee, that bit isn't in question. They have contracts which we can do fuck all about, until they expire.

UTB

 

[Barney]

You haven't thought this through, have you?

They won't raise a fee, that bit isn't in question. They have contracts which we can do fuck all about, until they expire.

UTB

I'm pretty sure you can sell players without their contract being up, otherwise everyone would leave on free transfers.

 

[alcoblade]

I'm pretty sure you can sell players without their contract being up, otherwise everyone would leave on free transfers.

No, you really can't.

The player has to agree to the deal. If the contract doesn't match or better what they have ( and they won't for the players we want to offload) , then they don't leave.

UTB

 

[Pinchy]

I'm pretty sure you can sell players without their contract being up, otherwise everyone would leave on free transfers.

But what if no club will pay them anywhere close to their existing wage. They're going to stay put aren't they?...

 

[Barney]

No, you really can't.

The player has to agree to the deal. If the contract doesn't match or better what they have ( and they won't for the players we want to offload) , then they don't leave.

UTB

Have you factored in whether or not the player will realise he will get more playing time elsewhere and might have to take a slight pay cut to do that? If our wages are that high that's it's not possible for that to happen then quite frankly we only have ourselves to blame.

 

[Barney]

But what if no club will pay them anywhere close to their existing wage. They're going to stay put aren't they?...

Depends how much of a difference the wage is I suppose. See above.

 

[alcoblade]

Have you factored in whether or not the player will realise he will get more playing time elsewhere and might have to take a slight pay cut to do that? If our wages are that high that's it's not possible for that to happen then quite frankly we only have ourselves to blame.

We have Clough to blame. That's another story.

The suggestion that we could have made wholesale changes is simply rubbish, sadly.

UTB

 

[Pinchy]

It's not remotely as easy to move players on as you suggest. The players who's contracts expired have gone.

Many of the others are playing for a "giant" in league one and are not nearly worth the contracts they have. They won't be wanted or afforded elsewhere. The next move is only downwards for them, and turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

UTB

Apart from our fundamental and irreconcilable differences on how the game should be played...I have to say you talk a great deal of sense 9 times out of 10.


Just watch yourself on that tenth.....

 

[Barney]

We have Clough to blame. That's another story.

The suggestion that we could have made wholesale changes is simply rubbish, sadly.

UTB

I don't know how players think these days but it would be pretty sad for the game if they would rather sit on their arses getting a higher wage rather than going out to prove themselves and doing what they love whilst earning a slightly lower wage.

 

[alcoblade]

Apart from our fundamental and irreconcilable differences on how the game should be played...I have to say you talk a great deal of sense 9 times out of 10.


Just watch yourself on that tenth.....

We don't actually disagree much on the tenth Pinchy. There's a game we both want to see us play (the tenth point), and the game I'm happy to accept to win football matches.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

I don't know how players think these days but it would be pretty sad for the game if they would rather sit on their arses getting a higher wage rather than going out to prove themselves and doing what they love whilst earning a slightly lower wage.

Are you typing this on FIFA 15 or something?

Players in " love of money" shocker!

UTB

 

[Barney]

Are you typing this on FIFA 15 or something?

Players in " love of money" shocker!

UTB

Sorry? You'll honestly have to explain that one.

 

[alcoblade]

Sorry? You'll honestly have to explain that one.

I'm joking that perhaps you're drawing you're experiences from a console rather than the real world, where it's all slightly more difficult.

UTB

 

[Barney]

I'm joking that perhaps you're drawing you're experiences from a console rather than the real world, where it's all slightly more difficult.

UTB

I think your bordering on being abit harsh here fella.

All I suggested was that some decent minded players, although you could argue there isn't many, might take a slight pay cut to play more regular football. Although it might not occur often, I can't see much wrong with that, evidently you can.