Are we leaving it a bit late for signings?

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What in my statement gave my point of view? I have witnessed your genius since you came on here and if I read it right your sole subscription is to wholesale change no matter what. Your the one behind a million and one posts about us not having signed anyone yet.

I wouldn't start chucking stones about acceptance of mediocrity in my direction if I were you.
Where in that post replies to mine? Nowhere. Just seems like diverting the topic to me.

Ok so this is what Clough left us with;

- no centre backs, no height, fallings out, no strikers till january, 20 points off promotion, and unbelievably negative football to top it all off.

Then, you state you think he nearly got it right? It is on that basis I came to the conclusion that you accept what Clough did.

You maybe think that's acceptable, but I certainly don't.
 
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The 1st game is now 4 weeks yesterday and no new signings,even if we sign player(s) next week they have only got 3 weeks to gel into the team and get match fit!
We still need at least 4 players IMO and this is not a lot of time to prepare for the start of the season.
 
Where in that post replies to mine? Nowhere. Just seems like diverting the topic to me.

Ok so this is what Clough left us with;

- no centre backs, no height, fallings out, no strikers till january, 20 points off promotion, and unbelievably negative football to top it all off.

Then, you state you think he nearly got it right? It is on that basis I came to the conclusion that you accept what Clough did.

You maybe think that's acceptable, but I certainly don't.

You don't know the difference between a question and a statement, until you do stop telling me what I think. Ask me and I will be happy to tell you.
 
I think people need to chill a little.

I reckon there will have to have been one or two deals gone off else were for NA to be able to get his targets. This is transfer lark is all about chain reactions and timings
 
What in my statement gave my point of view? I have witnessed your genius since you came on here and if I read it right your sole subscription is to wholesale change no matter what. Your the one behind a million and one posts about us not having signed anyone yet.

I wouldn't start chucking stones about acceptance of mediocrity in my direction if I were you.
There's been some proper bollocks talked on here lately about signings some saying replace the whole side do they want us relegated?
Let the competition go out randomly signing players to be honest there's not many up to now who have signed for others I would like to see in a red and white shirt.
Two weeks we've been back relax and enjoy the cricket , golf , holidays,sun or anything else what does it for you and leave the planning to NA.
 
I think people need to chill a little.

I reckon there will have to have been one or two deals gone off else were for NA to be able to get his targets. This is transfer lark is all about chain reactions and timings

Add to that the fact we may have already done deals and you have to wonder where the need to panic is?
 
I don't know what you lot are moaning about. I know for a fact that Kev, Jim and the IBRP are working very hard behind the scenes to get Murphy up the M1 to Leeds. The only sticking point is whether Billy Sharp is worth a friendly or their pick of our youth team players, or some left over wooden seating from the Bramall Lane Upper tier from the last time we played them.
 
Out of the twaddle you have won the battle with this beauty. He scored goals but was a failure because the 10 around him and the manager didn't do their job? He was proven when we signed him, he scored at an average of around 2 games per goal, was one of the leagues top scorers (when was the last time we had one of those who didn't end up in prison?) and this was failure on his part?

He blotted his copybook when he came back but lets at least have a straight record and not some sort of concocted book of lies just to fit your agenda.

What next, Beattie and Clough to blame for all world ills?

The point, which you are determined to miss, is that the signing was a failure. We gambled hugely on Beattie and spent money that we really couldn't afford to spend. Net result? The team around Beattie wasn't up to snuff, missed the play-offs, had to sell him off mid way through a push ,never recovered, sold off more players et fucking cetera and eventually wound up league lower than when we started with him.

The signing was a failure, however many goals he scored.
 
The only position i don't understand us not signing a player in is Centre half. It was clear at the end of the season that we needed 2 admitted by our then manager, plus we know that a player that can play there (hate that phrase that managers use) in Brayford, he is out until at least December. It is ok NA saying he wants to see what we have got but someone needs to tell him we haven't got a recognised centre half at the club forget all this he can play there bollocks, unless he is relying on Collins :eek:.
 
The only position i don't understand us not signing a player in is Centre half. It was clear at the end of the season that we needed 2 admitted by our then manager, plus we know that a player that can play there (hate that phrase that managers use) in Brayford, he is out until at least December. It is ok NA saying he wants to see what we have got but someone needs to tell him we haven't got a recognised centre half at the club forget all this he can play there bollocks, unless he is relying on Collins :eek:.
Its only a feeling but the central defenders will come in on loan probably from the championship
 
The point, which you are determined to miss, is that the signing was a failure. We gambled hugely on Beattie and spent money that we really couldn't afford to spend. Net result? The team around Beattie wasn't up to snuff, missed the play-offs, had to sell him off mid way through a push ,never recovered, sold off more players et fucking cetera and eventually wound up league lower than when we started with him.

The signing was a failure, however many goals he scored.

Totally disagree and I don't miss your point I just don't agree with it. People often make that misjudgement when steamrollering their point home.
 
We gambled hugely on Beattie and spent money that we really couldn't afford to spend. Net result? The team around Beattie wasn't up to snuff,

Now this I don't agree with.

The team WAS easily up to snuff but we managed to appoint the worst manager in the clubs history to manage them. The signings were fine and once the thorn in the side was removed even a cock end like Blackwell managed to get 1.92 points per game out of them.
As the automatically promoted teams that year (WBA and Stoke) got 1.76 and 1.72 ppg I would suggest we were well capable of winning the league had we not been intent on appointing a busted flush.
 
Totally disagree and I don't miss your point I just don't agree with it. People often make that misjudgement when steamrollering their point home.

So despite the fact that a player was signed to get us promoted and the eventual result was relegation and oblivion, you consider that signing a success?
 
So despite the fact that a player was signed to get us promoted and the eventual result was relegation and oblivion, you consider that signing a success?

Yep, the signing was a success, some of the others like Hendry etc were so woefully bad that they offset any positive effect Beattie had by more than he could ever do. Oh and of course that inept stain of a manager.

As a player you can only do what you do.

Once more, we signed Done and Brayford to get promoted, we didn't get promoted are those signings failures too? No of course not.
 



The 1st game is now 4 weeks yesterday and no new signings,even if we sign player(s) next week they have only got 3 weeks to gel into the team and get match fit!
We still need at least 4 players IMO and this is not a lot of time to prepare for the start of the season.
I think his targets may have to gel brownie, but his targets will be getting fit with their respective clubs as we speak.imo.
 
Yep, the signing was a success, some of the others like Hendry etc were so woefully bad that they offset any positive effect Beattie had by more than he could ever do. Oh and of course that inept stain of a manager.

As a player you can only do what you do.

Once more, we signed Done and Brayford to get promoted, we didn't get promoted are those signings failures too? No of course not.

Right, but the thing is we spent a huge chunk on that one player, which is part of the reason we had chumps like Hendrie elsewhere in the team.

No-one is denying that Beattie played very well for us. But I think there's more factors at play which determine whether or not a signing can be considered a success.

For instance, do you think Charlton consider the signing of Allan Simonsen a success? After all, he scored at a rate of better than 1 in 2 for them...
 
Right, but the thing is we spent a huge chunk on that one player, which is part of the reason we had chumps like Hendrie elsewhere in the team.

No-one is denying that Beattie played very well for us. But I think there's more factors at play which determine whether or not a signing can be considered a success.

For instance, do you think Charlton consider the signing of Allan Simonsen a success? After all, he scored at a rate of better than 1 in 2 for them...

Done and Brayford. You avoided that.
 
If you're having to trawl back 37 years or so to find something to illustrate your point then I'd suggest it's somewhat flimsy. But at least you wrestle the barrel scraping crown from BTL for a bit :-)
 
Done and Brayford. You avoided that.

We'll have to see, they haven't been sold for less that what we paid yet, have they?

James Beattie was signed at the beginning of the season, Brayford and Done were brought in half way through. Sure we didn't get promoted last season but they're both still here (currently) to help us next season. Beattie, as I'm sure you'll recall, went down with the 'flu and was promptly shipped off to Stoke at the sharp end of the season.

The failure of the Beattie signing wasn't that he didn't get us promoted right away, it's that we didn't get promoted at all. And personally I think his fee and wages were a huge factor in our eventual relegation, too.

All that said, I do just worry that the Brayford signing might eventually become a white elephant.
 
If you're having to trawl back 37 years or so to find something to illustrate your point then I'd suggest it's somewhat flimsy. But at least you wrestle the barrel scraping crown from BTL for a bit :)

There are plenty of others but it's a famous example and a close analogy. Indeed, it was 10 years or so before I was born but I still know it because it was such a famous case.

Marque signing for a second tier club, did the business of the pitch but in the end wasn't worth it and left the club in a worse state. Hardly a stretch now is it?
 
We'll have to see, they haven't been sold for less that what we paid yet, have they?

James Beattie was signed at the beginning of the season, Brayford and Done were brought in half way through. Sure we didn't get promoted last season but they're both still here (currently) to help us next season. Beattie, as I'm sure you'll recall, went down with the 'flu and was promptly shipped off to Stoke at the sharp end of the season.

The failure of the Beattie signing wasn't that he didn't get us promoted right away, it's that we didn't get promoted at all. And personally I think his fee and wages were a huge factor in our eventual relegation, too.

All that said, I do just worry that the Brayford signing might eventually become a white elephant.
What it seems you're trying to infer here is that signing Beattie was a mistake on the basis that we eventually got relegated.

I'm sorry but I disagree on so many levels with this assumption. One man cannot solely be responsible for a team failure, nor does said players' reputation deserve to be tarnished whilst he is a member of a club that is collectively under performing.
 
What it seems you're trying to infer here is that signing Beattie was a mistake on the basis that we eventually got relegated.

I'm sorry but I disagree on so many levels with this assumption. One man cannot solely be responsible for a team failure, nor does said players' reputation deserve to be tarnished whilst he is a member of a club that is collectively under performing.
22 goals in a season is hardly a failure
 
There are plenty of others but it's a famous example and a close analogy. Indeed, it was 10 years or so before I was born but I still know it because it was such a famous case.

Marque signing for a second tier club, did the business of the pitch but in the end wasn't worth it and left the club in a worse state. Hardly a stretch now is it?

Former European Footballer Of The Year, scored in a European Cup Final, signed from Barcelona

versus

Squad player at Everton. Likes an alloy.

Yes, I think it's a stretch.
 
Former European Footballer Of The Year, scored in a European Cup Final, signed from Barcelona

versus

Squad player at Everton. Likes an alloy.

Yes, I think it's a stretch.

England International Centre Forward was how it was billed at the time. And easily the most we'd ever spent on a player.
 
What it seems you're trying to infer here is that signing Beattie was a mistake on the basis that we eventually got relegated.

I'm sorry but I disagree on so many levels with this assumption. One man cannot solely be responsible for a team failure, nor does said players' reputation deserve to be tarnished whilst he is a member of a club that is collectively under performing.

22 goals in a season is hardly a failure

Just before I get into it, Barny you mean 'imply'. The speaker/writer implies, the listener/reader infers. I only mention this because I know it gets the goat of a few people on here!

The point that I can only assume people are willfully missing at this junction is that the signing of James Beattie was a failure. The decision to buy him was a bad one. It ended up costing us.

Look at it from this angle. What are the criteria by which we can judge a signing?

Did we achieve our aims that season?
Categorically no. The team struggled around mid table until a late but ultimately futile surge took us close to the play-offs. The aim for the season was undoubtedly to get promoted at the first attempt. We missed by miles.

Did we receive any return on our investment?
Categorically no. Forgetting wages, we actually received a smaller transfer fee that the one we paid out, even though Beattie had been scoring for fun. Why? Well I admit I'm speculating somewhat here but I think it was a cost cutting move. Beattie was simply too expensive to keep. The board didn't even have the bollocks to hold out for the full amount we had paid to Everton, all this despite the team being in the midst of a promotion chase. If Beattie was so key, why was he sold? If we hadn't paid too much for him, why was it necessary to get shut of a player who had already scored 12 goals at such a vital part of the season?

Did James Beattie play well?
Absolutely yes, other than the occasional grumbling about work rate. He scored goals like they were going out of style. But those goals didn't do us any good, at least in terms of securing promotion. Hell, until Robson was sacked those goals were barely enough for mid table! Partly this was because Robson was a terrible manager but it didn't help that we had players like David Carney and Lee Hendrie in the side. A little more balance in the squad rather than the eggs in one basket approach might have helped immeasurably.

After Beattie was sold (at a loss, let's not forget) the team finished third and then lost in the play-off final. The cycle of cost cutting and lower placed finishes went on for five years, only stopping last season (which was the first time we'd finished in a higher position than the previous season since Kevin Blackwell was sacked). The club is, or was until very recently, suffering from having to replace good players with dreck in order to balance the books, a practice that started during Blackwell's reign due in large part to Bryan Robson's transfer policy, a large part of which was the signing of James Beattie, for a club record fee.

If you idea of success was that we saw some great goals then fine, Beattie was a roaring success. If your idea is that a signing should actually benefit a club in the long run and help them become stronger then the evidence is against it.

Consider this: why was Beattie sold when he was?
A) The board are evil and want what's worst for the club
B) The board didn't consider Beattie key to the team
C) The board considered Stoke's offer too good to turn down (even though it was less than we paid and despite Beattie's form)
D) The board thought the club was fucked financially and needed to sell assets.

If we can dismiss A) then the rest all suggest that signing Beattie was a poor decision in the first place (given that, if costs needed to be cut so badly, he was on the highest wage and had commanded the largest fee). Either he wasn't good enough or Stoke's offer was somehow considered reasonable (meaning we'd overpaid) or signing him in the first place had meant we'd over-stretched financially.
 
Got to agree with Guesty, Beattie's £40k per week was for a Championship club even with parachute payments financial suicide and could never be maintained. Along with hiring Robson this was one transfer that was a disaster for the club which we are only now slowly starting to recover from.
 



If Sheffield United had an ounce of backbone we would have kept hold of Deane and Fjortoft we'd have gone up in 98, if the club had just gambled and kept hold of Beattie in 2009 we would have gone up that season too.

Instead it was and always has been the quick buck first, McCabe swapped the realistic possibility of £60Million from the Premier League for a quick £2.5Million off of Stoke City.

Look at where SUFC and STFC are in world football now.
 

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