che adams next year..

[Pedro Verde]

This "impact player" and "regular on the bench" line is just ridiculous, for me. I'm surprised there aren't people suggesting he be farmed out on loan somewhere to give him more experience.

I'm thankful that substitutes (and internet forums) didn't even exist when I started going otherwise I wonder how long it would have taken Mick Jones, Len Badger, Alan Birchenall and Alan Woodward to establish themselves as first team regulars. Mick Jones was four days short of his eighteenth birthday when he made his debut at Old Trafford in 1963 and within a month he'd scored four league goals in seven games. Len Badger made his league debut a week later at seventeen and was soon a regular. Alan Birchenall was just over a week past his nineteenth birthday when he made his debut in September 1964. Three days later he scored both our goals in a 2-0 win at Hillsborough and he went on to score seven more in our next ten league games. Woody was eighteen years and one month old when he made his first league start in October 1964. There were thirty one league games left and he played in twenty seven of them, scoring seven times.

Adams will be nineteen next month. It may be true, as Fulwood says, that you get "slip-ups" from young players but what you also get is pace, flair and a lack of inhibition. In those last few minutes at Swindon we saw a player visibly grow in confidence once it dawned on him that he had the beating of their defence and all he had to do to put the fear of God into them was to run at them and take them on. There's work to be done with him, no doubt, but he should be starting regularly from the outset next season, I've no doubt. Sink or swim is the way to go and my money would be on swim. He may or may not be as good a talent as those lads mentioned above but they made their impacts in the top flight. We're in the third tier.

Dont forget football has changed
There is instant pressure on Adkins to get us out of this league by hook or by crook
He doesnt really have the scope for too many mistakes
Introduce Adams gradually it has been said previuosly in this thread when hes started games he has looked
pretty average

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Me and you are up for a little side bet on this one. Nothing big but we could have a chat about it. Whilst I agree Che may be an impact player, he is not way behind MM and MM may even be lucky to get a berth unless he bucks up his ideas of what he needs to do in a game. That said I will be pleased to be embarrassed should he perform the way you see him as.
Che for me takes his chances far quicker than MM has done so far. He also appears stronger than MM?

first thing is, I don't gamble - know too many people who would bet against 2 spiders crawling up a wall.

As for Che, think he is a tremendous prospect - really like what I see.
As for MM - yes, have watched him closely. His first touch, left and right foot is good. All his goals are different - 13 goals from being and and out of the team is quite good. As for bucking his ideas up - think that is a bit harsh, considering Clough chopping and changing all season and playing MM up top on his own, which in my opinion he is not a loan striker. It has been said he should run the channels - why when 1 up front? Deane and Agana ran the channels, but we played 4-4-2 and mu opinion of 1 up front is you keep the central 2 busy and it is the job of the 2 wide players in the 5 man midfield to run the channels, not the lone striker.

MM has been misused by Clough and it is my 2nd biggest gripe after the lack of 2 x CH's.
If MM played in a 2 up top - and to be fair, I reckon, considering our squad (and the present lack of CH's) I would seriously consider a Bristol type formation of 3 at the back, 5 in the middle and 2 up top, including MM.

I don't think we have the time or the money to drastically alter the squad and asking Adkins to lets say bring in 6-8 players whilst keeping the rest (due to contracts) is a probable none starter.

It's interesting times for Mr Adkins - I wish him all the best as he is going to need it. Some of our "favoured" players aren't going to get a look in - just makes me wonder who it is. For me, we won't win owt playing inexperienced kids, and Adkins does not have the luxury of waiting for players to develop.
Nothing against Che - just think circumstances will dictate what is needed.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Adams has been average when he has started . The bottom line , he is a bloody good raw talent , and has to work on his game from a concentration , positioning , timing , aspect . The lad is still learning his trade , but will become a regular choice first team player in the future . At the moment IMO , he is a impact player , with the great benefit of being unpredictable , and being able to change a game.

Still not sure about MM , who also seems to suffer from lapses in concentration . He will become a better player under Adkins , i am sure.

UTB

One of Adkins apparent strengths is getting the best out of players - MM is quality (as is Adams), Mcnulty just needs a big lad to take the weight of him - We need a Toshack for our keegan!

UTB

 

[boo radley]

first thing is, I don't gamble - know too many people who would bet against 2 spiders crawling up a wall.

As for Che, think he is a tremendous prospect - really like what I see.
As for MM - yes, have watched him closely. His first touch, left and right foot is good. All his goals are different - 13 goals from being and and out of the team is quite good. As for bucking his ideas up - think that is a bit harsh, considering Clough chopping and changing all season and playing MM up top on his own, which in my opinion he is not a loan striker. It has been said he should run the channels - why when 1 up front? Deane and Agana ran the channels, but we played 4-4-2 and mu opinion of 1 up front is you keep the central 2 busy and it is the job of the 2 wide players in the 5 man midfield to run the channels, not the lone striker.

MM has been misused by Clough and it is my 2nd biggest gripe after the lack of 2 x CH's.
If MM played in a 2 up top - and to be fair, I reckon, considering our squad (and the present lack of CH's) I would seriously consider a Bristol type formation of 3 at the back, 5 in the middle and 2 up top, including MM.

I don't think we have the time or the money to drastically alter the squad and asking Adkins to lets say bring in 6-8 players whilst keeping the rest (due to contracts) is a probable none starter.

It's interesting times for Mr Adkins - I wish him all the best as he is going to need it. Some of our "favoured" players aren't going to get a look in - just makes me wonder who it is. For me, we won't win owt playing inexperienced kids, and Adkins does not have the luxury of waiting for players to develop.
Nothing against Che - just think circumstances will dictate what is needed.

UTB

And what will you think if Adkins releases MM?

 

[Kenilworth]

I'd start him up front this year anall, no point waiting till 2016

James Vardy released as a schoolboy by pigs to non league now picked for England. Get on with it Nigel he's tallent like Vardy, it happens

I am so relieved that you found the additional "l"
It alters the context of your post considerably but mid you are not too profligate with them

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

This "impact player" and "regular on the bench" line is just ridiculous, for me. I'm surprised there aren't people suggesting he be farmed out on loan somewhere to give him more experience.

I'm thankful that substitutes (and internet forums) didn't even exist when I started going otherwise I wonder how long it would have taken Mick Jones, Len Badger, Alan Birchenall and Alan Woodward to establish themselves as first team regulars. Mick Jones was four days short of his eighteenth birthday when he made his debut at Old Trafford in 1963 and within a month he'd scored four league goals in seven games. Len Badger made his league debut a week later at seventeen and was soon a regular. Alan Birchenall was just over a week past his nineteenth birthday when he made his debut in September 1964. Three days later he scored both our goals in a 2-0 win at Hillsborough and he went on to score seven more in our next ten league games. Woody was eighteen years and one month old when he made his first league start in October 1964. There were thirty one league games left and he played in twenty seven of them, scoring seven times.

Adams will be nineteen next month. It may be true, as Fulwood says, that you get "slip-ups" from young players but what you also get is pace, flair and a lack of inhibition. In those last few minutes at Swindon we saw a player visibly grow in confidence once it dawned on him that he had the beating of their defence and all he had to do to put the fear of God into them was to run at them and take them on. There's work to be done with him, no doubt, but he should be starting regularly from the outset next season, I've no doubt. Sink or swim is the way to go and my money would be on swim. He may or may not be as good a talent as those lads mentioned above but they made their impacts in the top flight. We're in the third tier.

Cant really disagree with what you say . Jones , Birchenall , Shaw , Badger where young and established . The only thing i can say is , the difference between now and then , is we weren't trying ( imperative we do ) to get out of Football League Division 3 at the time.

I may be totally wrong , but IMO we have not got the time or luxury to try a young player , and give him a long first team run , to sink or swim. Lets hope i am wrong because the kid has talent . and was a shining light in a dark season .

On the bench for me.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

And what will you think if Adkins releases MM?

In the same way that we have too many players and Che Adams may get sold on - he is probably more saleable than MM - how many scouts were at the game previous to when we bought? - 34 according to the Ilkeston manager.

His Spurs cameo has probably doubled what we paid for him.

So a thought for you: The incoming manager takes a quick look at the goal scoring charts and sees Mcnulty, Done and Baxter as the top three - Baxter is out for a minimum of 6 months, so in effect write him off all season. If I was Adkins, I'd be having both Done and Mcnulty in the same team because at the back of his mind he thinks "If I don't get out in one season, I could be on my bike" - and those two actually put the ball in the net as against offering.................potential like Adams.

You do the maths - Adkins has zero time to play with and goal scorers will not come cheap, if there are any available and we probably don't have that much to spend, with 2, possibly 3 centre halves needed and central midfield(?) and possibly a big centre forward.


UTB

 

[BushBlade]

Cant really disagree with what you say . Jones , Birchenall , Shaw , Badger where young and established . The only thing i can say is , the difference between now and then , is we weren't trying ( imperative we do ) to get out of Football League Division 3 at the time.

I may be totally wrong , but IMO we have not got the time or luxury to try a young player , and give him a long first team run , to sink or swim. Lets hope i am wrong because the kid has talent . and was a shining light in a dark season .

On the bench for me.

UTB

Agree, we're going to need a good squad so there's no reason why Adams can't progress during the season from being on the bench to starting games, if he does well.

 

[bladesmanluke]

We will not sack Adkins if we don't get promoted this season no way

 

[bigbirdblade]

Pairs of strikers. Che and higdon I think from what we saw against Tottenham could be superb together as could mcnulty and done. Different set ups for different games and situations.

Plus baxter and murphy as backup.

 

[boo radley]

In the same way that we have too many players and Che Adams may get sold on - he is probably more saleable than MM - how many scouts were at the game previous to when we bought? - 34 according to the Ilkeston manager.

His Spurs cameo has probably doubled what we paid for him.

So a thought for you: The incoming manager takes a quick look at the goal scoring charts and sees Mcnulty, Done and Baxter as the top three - Baxter is out for a minimum of 6 months, so in effect write him off all season. If I was Adkins, I'd be having both Done and Mcnulty in the same team because at the back of his mind he thinks "If I don't get out in one season, I could be on my bike" - and those two actually put the ball in the net as against offering.................potential like Adams.

You do the maths - Adkins has zero time to play with and goal scorers will not come cheap, if there are any available and we probably don't have that much to spend, with 2, possibly 3 centre halves needed and central midfield(?) and possibly a big centre forward.


UTB

Well, you would rather keep MM. Me Che. The big striker you talk about could still be Davies. I would like to think that if it was it would be Done and Davis. Although that was too near the end of the season that pairing looked very exciting. MM does not excite me at all. I could see exactly what Clough was talking about in relation to his performances. Maybe your right (I hope you are) about Adkins getting the best out of him.

 

[OllyBlade]

So a thought for you: The incoming manager takes a quick look at the goal scoring charts and sees Mcnulty, Done and Baxter as the top three - Baxter is out for a minimum of 6 months, so in effect write him off all season. If I was Adkins, I'd be having both Done and Mcnulty in the same team because at the back of his mind he thinks "If I don't get out in one season, I could be on my bike" - and those two actually put the ball in the net as against offering.................potential like Adams.

Last time we started with Done and McNulty we were 3-0 down in 20 minutes Perhaps suggests the main problems to sort out lie elsewhere.

 

[Pinchy]

McNulty might want to consider joining in the game from time to time. He needs to watch Matt Done and learn.

Fulwood and I must be watching a different player. Done and A Newcomer up front for me. Che can play wide instead of Flynn, who is a good full-back.

 

[Woodwardfan]

The new manager will decide what Che's best position is - striker in a two or midfield attacker arriving that bit later.

I think he can play both but goal scoring midfielders are worth their weight in gold. Much depends on N.A's preferred formation.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Last time we started with Done and McNulty we were 3-0 down in 20 minutes Perhaps suggests the main problems to sort out lie elsewhere.

You are indeed correct - was banging on about centre half way back last September.

I very much doubt that Adkins will be playing full backs at centre half, but they still have to be purchased or loaned at a cost. We already have a big squad for this division and if Adkins is to add to it, then we are in serious danger of running up against Fair play rules on our players wages.

If players won't go out, the we have a problem bringing other players in - a fact that seems to be lost on a lot on here.

As for being 3 nil down - we all know where the problems were and it wasn't the fact that Done and Mcnulty played up top together.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Well, you would rather keep MM. Me Che. The big striker you talk about could still be Davies. I would like to think that if it was it would be Done and Davis. Although that was too near the end of the season that pairing looked very exciting. MM does not excite me at all. I could see exactly what Clough was talking about in relation to his performances. Maybe your right (I hope you are) about Adkins getting the best out of him.

I too like Done but wouldn't give Davies house room. As for Mcnulty, I agree that he has faults - he still scored 13 goals from an indifferent stop start season, engineered solely by Clough. I also accept Clough should have had a go at Mcnulty for his indiscretions and was myself disappointed in him when he started games as against coming off the bench.

Numerous players, and I include Baxter were given a shit deal with Clough in being asked to play different roles and any lone forward ie: Mcnulty didn't know from one week to the next who his midfield players would be - hardly a good recipe for players gelling together. For me Mcnulty actually showed his class by scoring that many in what was a very indifferent and fragmented team.

A team of young players might be want some fans want - I just ask for 7 to 8 out of 10 consistency out of the 11 that play. If Che can do that then I don't have an issue, but Alan Hansens comments of "you don't win anything with kids" does normally carry some credence, he just happened to pick the "best" gang of six this country will ever see in one place, where as ours just seem inconsistent.

What I will look forward to, is a manager that hopefully puts faith in players and plays a more settled team than the fragmented approach Clough appeared to adopt.

At least our mojo is back and we are discussing more positive things.

UTB

 

[Lane Ender]

McNulty might want to consider joining in the game from time to time. He needs to watch Matt Done and learn.

Fulwood and I must be watching a different player. Done and A Newcomer up front for me. Che can play wide instead of Flynn, who is a good full-back.

Hes scored some important goals but its down to him now this season is crucial for him, good pre season a must.

 

[Lane Ender]

We will not sack Adkins if we don't get promoted this season no way

Ive never been as confident of promotion.
Bring em on!

 

[AlienBlade]

100% agree, it's been said he's not old enough/fit enough to be regularly starting, but definitely has the talent, and the only way to harness it is to play frequently

dont think it's about Age... he just isnt good enough to "start" the best place at the moment is from the bench in sort of a Peschi role. as he has been lethal from the bench but more lethargic when starting...

 

[Fulwood Blade]

McNulty might want to consider joining in the game from time to time. He needs to watch Matt Done and learn.

Fulwood and I must be watching a different player. Done and A Newcomer up front for me. Che can play wide instead of Flynn, who is a good full-back.

Pinchy, we are watching the same striker.

What I see is a 5' 10", 11 stone striker having to play the one up front role for the majority of the season when he is a 4-4-2 type striker.

First NC tried to sign COG in pre season and failed, then we had the last minute Higdon to supposedly play that role (subsequently unfit, sent off, injured and then discarded) - we had COG on loan and then returned and then Davies on loan.

All the time MM was used in way that was alien to his natural game and when a big lad wasn't available, he had to fill in and "try" and play the same role.

I totally agree that at times he has been poor and a lot of that time was because of the ever changing midfield and MM having to play up top as a very very lightweight COG/Higdon or Davies.

I think you and others have been unfair on Mcnulty - especially as he would have hit that magic 20 goal total if he had not had 23 matches as a sub.

Given the right service from a consistent midfield that gets to know his runs and how he plays then he will be a success. Can see a very unnatural left sided Murphy (if Fulham don't get him) playing on the right and Done on the left side. 2 brutes at CH and Basham plus a n other in centre midfield.

We all wait with interest.......

UTB

 

[United Aren't Back.]

I agree completely. Adams and Done up top, with new signings 1 RM, 1 CM, 2 CB's and a GK.

Spot on. Two strikers who need to develop a partnership are Done and Adams. They must start together and be given time to develop the partnership.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

he is way behind Mcnulty for a starting berth.

Adkins will take a few weeks to look over the squad and after reviewing all the goals MM scored last year will be first on the team sheet.

Adams will be impact player - he has been very average the few games he has started.

UTB

For which he has oodles of company. Even Murphy is not a consistent enough performer, if he was he would be gone!
We simply must hope Adams,shows his,ability and gets the goals he deserves.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

For which he has oodles of company. Even Murphy is not a consistent enough performer, if he was he would be gone!
We simply must hope Adams,shows his,ability and gets the goals he deserves.

yes agree about Murphy - his last couple of months were really quite poor.

As for Adams - he hasn't done enough to earn a starting place and will probably start on the bench. Some regular cameo performances may get him a starting berth. as for ability, he has a bucket loads, but when given a chance he has to grasp it and not be inconsistent as a lot of youngsters are.

It all depends where Adkins feels he should play which will be a dilemma with people like Basham, Reed, Flynn, Freeman, mceverly, Done, Murphy...........gosh, isn't he list a long one for players that don't really have a "regular" spot or position.

UTB

 

[United Aren't Back.]

Dont forget football has changed
There is instant pressure on Adkins to get us out of this league by hook or by crook
He doesnt really have the scope for too many mistakes
Introduce Adams gradually it has been said previuosly in this thread when hes started games he has looked
pretty average

In line with the vast majority of the outlandishly large squad.

 

[Darthblade]

Pinchy, we are watching the same striker.

What I see is a 5' 10", 11 stone striker having to play the one up front role for the majority of the season when he is a 4-4-2 type striker.

First NC tried to sign COG in pre season and failed, then we had the last minute Higdon to supposedly play that role (subsequently unfit, sent off, injured and then discarded) - we had COG on loan and then returned and then Davies on loan.

All the time MM was used in way that was alien to his natural game and when a big lad wasn't available, he had to fill in and "try" and play the same role.

I totally agree that at times he has been poor and a lot of that time was because of the ever changing midfield and MM having to play up top as a very very lightweight COG/Higdon or Davies.

I think you and others have been unfair on Mcnulty - especially as he would have hit that magic 20 goal total if he had not had 23 matches as a sub.

Given the right service from a consistent midfield that gets to know his runs and how he plays then he will be a success. Can see a very unnatural left sided Murphy (if Fulham don't get him) playing on the right and Done on the left side. 2 brutes at CH and Basham plus a n other in centre midfield.

We all wait with interest.......

UTB

Whatever choices NA makes in terms of shipping out ineffective players and bringing in key signings, its important that we play a settled side and a settled formation for as long as possible ( early round cup games excepted ).

I think that NA seems to prefer 4-4-2 rather than 4-6-0 that we used until January last season, so that suggests to me that he will probably bring in a big, strong target man type striker to score and take the hammer from the agricultural CHs in this division and play with either McNuts or Done. I'm guessing Done will get the initial nod due to his scoring record being ok, plus his pace and incredible workrate.

Can't see a place in NA's teams for either Baxter or Scougal though, as neither can play in a 4 man midfield in this division; we know that from experience. I can therefore see both either being sold or loaned out for the season ( subject to how long Baxter is banned for )

Just need two dominant CHs and wait to see if Wallace can be divorced from the physio's table then ......
UTB & FTP

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I too like Done but wouldn't give Davies house room. As for Mcnulty, I agree that he has faults - he still scored 13 goals from an indifferent stop start season, engineered solely by Clough. I also accept Clough should have had a go at Mcnulty for his indiscretions and was myself disappointed in him when he started games as against coming off the bench.

Numerous players, and I include Baxter were given a shit deal with Clough in being asked to play different roles and any lone forward ie: Mcnulty didn't know from one week to the next who his midfield players would be - hardly a good recipe for players gelling together. For me Mcnulty actually showed his class by scoring that many in what was a very indifferent and fragmented team.

A team of young players might be want some fans want - I just ask for 7 to 8 out of 10 consistency out of the 11 that play. If Che can do that then I don't have an issue, but Alan Hansens comments of "you don't win anything with kids" does normally carry some credence, he just happened to pick the "best" gang of six this country will ever see in one place, where as ours just seem inconsistent.

What I will look forward to, is a manager that hopefully puts faith in players and plays a more settled team than the fragmented approach Clough appeared to adopt.

At least our mojo is back and we are discussing more positive things.

UTB

Adkins does like the rotation system of players , BUT , playing a player in his right position of which he is comfortable .

Confidence , settled side , players being comfortable , knowing there task in hand , gelling together , routine ,is the key , which Adkins will sort out . It is also thankfully not rocket science in our case.

You make a good , valid point , elsewhere , about shipping players out ( reducing the large squad ) , and bringing new players in , at the same time keeping a eye on finances and FFP. The alternative football club market is small for some our players , and any fringe player , with time to run out , on his contract , will stay , due to money offered elsewhere being less. Now that is a dilemma for Adkins and Board.

We are not a cash cow , but IMO having a number of poor saleable assets , starts Adkins on the back foot.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Whatever choices NA makes in terms of shipping out ineffective players and bringing in key signings, its important that we play a settled side and a settled formation for as long as possible ( early round cup games excepted ).

I think that NA seems to prefer 4-4-2 rather than 4-6-0 that we used until January last season, so that suggests to me that he will probably bring in a big, strong target man type striker to score and take the hammer from the agricultural CHs in this division and play with either McNuts or Done. I'm guessing Done will get the initial nod due to his scoring record being ok, plus his pace and incredible workrate.

Can't see a place in NA's teams for either Baxter or Scougal though, as neither can play in a 4 man midfield in this division; we know that from experience. I can therefore see both either being sold or loaned out for the season ( subject to how long Baxter is banned for )

Just need two dominant CHs and wait to see if Wallace can be divorced from the physio's table then ......
UTB & FTP

Agree on CH's. Wallace looks a quality player and really hoping he can get fit. His few performances last season promised much.
Yep, Scoogs may not get a look in - perhaps impact?
Baxter isn't going to feature - minimum 6 months ban - won't be match fit for a couple of months leads us to next February/March time.

Can see Done playing wide left or right - does anyone know his true position though?

At least we are back to discussing proper football topics, instead of negative this and negative that.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

We are not a cash cow , but IMO having a number of poor saleable assets , starts Adkins on the back foot.

UTB

That's a key statement - fans have to realise Adkins is not some sort of magician and he does not start from a sound base, but a base that is a very unbalanced squad. He has his work cut out, but as usual my half full glass is looking forward to the new season.

Hopefully our club can get it's mojo back - there are some great crowds awaiting a good team - ie: Donny & Barnsley away - we need lift off Mr Adkins !

UTB

 

[Darthblade]

Agree on CH's. Wallace looks a quality player and really hoping he can get fit. His few performances last season promised much.
Yep, Scoogs may not get a look in - perhaps impact?
Baxter isn't going to feature - minimum 6 months ban - won't be match fit for a couple of months leads us to next February/March time.

Can see Done playing wide left or right - does anyone know his true position though?

At least we are back to discussing proper football topics, instead of negative this and negative that.

UTB

I agree ..... I really like the look of Wallace as well and we missed a big strong playmaker sooooo much last season , but if we cant get him fit ...... add a bug, strong CM playmaker to the shopping list along with 2 x CH a big strong pacey goal hungry CF and don't be surprised to see a new winger. I'm told by people cleverer than me that NA likes pacy wingers.

One thing is for certain ..... let there be NO talk of play-offs this next season. It MUST be automatic promotion that we go for or teddy is taking a fu**ing good kicking out of the cot !!!
Lets be aiming for 100 goals & 100 points for goodness sake .......
UTB & FTP

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Agree on CH's. Wallace looks a quality player and really hoping he can get fit. His few performances last season promised much.
Yep, Scoogs may not get a look in - perhaps impact?
Baxter isn't going to feature - minimum 6 months ban - won't be match fit for a couple of months leads us to next February/March time.

Can see Done playing wide left or right - does anyone know his true position though?

At least we are back to discussing proper football topics, instead of negative this and negative that.

UTB

Done true position is RB . With Brayford being injured , (and the other attacking options already at the club ) , i can see him playing as a attacking wing back.

It all depends who the manager brings in . Adkins will know , like we do whats required . ( Elsie the tea lady will have told him and she will have been 100% correct , on her assessment )

UTB