In Clough we trust?

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Scunthorpe should be a home win but we've had a poor record against them in recent years, I'm not feeling overly confident given our current form. Not helped by my lad telling his Scunny supporting mate that the mighty Blades are gonna tear them a new 'un, he's gonna have to learn the hard way it seems.

Anyway, no Lyle Taylor chants FFS ;)

UTB
 



Well what a poor state of affairs, from being promotion favourites we have dropped to play off hopefuls and now we are getting whispers of building for next season :confused::confused::confused: FFs how much longer are the apologists going to carry on making excuses for the board and their fall guy Clough ................... time they all fucked off and handed over to someone with ambition and the balls to move the club forwards.
 
1889 said:
Scunthorpe should be a home win but we've had a poor record against them in recent years, I'm not feeling overly confident given our current form. Not helped by my lad telling his Scunny supporting mate that the mighty Blades are gonna tear them a new 'un, he's gonna have to learn the hard way it seems.

Anyway, no Lyle Taylor chants FFS ;)

UTB
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Scunthorpe haven't lost since October and they are a bogey side. I'm expecting nothing at the moment.
 
metalblade said:
Well what a poor state of affairs, from being promotion favourites we have dropped to play off hopefuls and now we are getting whispers of building for next season :confused::confused::confused: FFs how much longer are the apologists going to carry on making excuses for the board and their fall guy Clough ................... time they all fucked off and handed over to someone with ambition and the balls to move the club forwards.
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"Hand it over".....do you think anyone wants it?

The owners should ensure the manager is under no doubt thst they expect us to go out and attack the utter shite that we face every week.

It really pains me to say it but the current owners and any potential ones would be starting to wonder if they'd trust further transfer budget with this manager.

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
"Hand it over".....do you think anyone wants it?

The owners should ensure the manager is under no doubt thst they expect us to go out and attack the utter shite that we face every week.

It really pains me to say it but the current owners and any potential ones would be starting to wonder if they'd trust further transfer budget with this manager.

UTB
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Well I wouldn't trust him with ten bob
 
UnitedBlade said:
Scunthorpe haven't lost since October and they are a bogey side. I'm expecting nothing at the moment.
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Every game becomes more important than the last . Scunny now is the focus . Nothing but a win will be acceptable , and could be the game were the board either back Mr Clough in the January transfer window , or loose there bottle.

The phrase used of building for next season will be viewed with the contempt it deserves.

UTB
 
I don't know if it's down to Clough, the board or a combination of both, but our squad of players just isn't good enough to compete, even at this level, which, to be blunt, is fucking crap. I remember blader and I taking some stick for daring to suggest that the signings, whilst great in number, were lacking in quality. Our summer transfer activity flew in the face of Clough's suggestion that he wanted quality, not quantity. He did not manage to snare one single player that I actually though "wow, I'm pleased we've managed to get him, that'll make the rest of the division stand up and take notice." In fact, I don't think I'd heard of any of them.

I was very disappointed in the signings. We bought players that didn't stand out in average teams. Players like Alcock, released by Peterborough, or Wallace, injured 90% of the time from Tranmere. How people thought this was improving our chances of promotion, I'll never know. Strength in depth? Depth, yes, but strength? Not a jot of it.

"We need time to gel" was one excuse. The need to gel was a fuck up of our own doing. We did not need drastic changes to the squad in the summer. Replace or re-sign Brayford, Coady and Maguire and pick up where we left off. But no, Clough chooses the first game of the season to make a point that he doesn't want Collins and Doyle in the team. Well, that worked out, didn't it.

For Christ's sake. This division is absolutely dire. It's crap to watch and should be easy to win. Board: invest some fucking money in quality players; Clough: stop being so fucking stubborn and falling out with players, sign a couple of good players and pick a consistent team.

I hate this division and I hate the fact that we are no better than the rest of the crap, little teams in it. This doesn't make me a pig fan for thinking we should be better than the likes of Fleetwood and Port Vale. We should.
 
Latters said:
I don't know if it's down to Clough, the board or a combination of both, but our squad of players just isn't good enough to compete, even at this level, which, to be blunt, is fucking crap. I remember blader and I taking some stick for daring to suggest that the signings, whilst great in number, were lacking in quality. Our summer transfer activity flew in the face of Clough's suggestion that he wanted quality, not quantity. He did not manage to snare one single player that I actually though "wow, I'm pleased we've managed to get him, that'll make the rest of the division stand up and take notice." In fact, I don't think I'd heard of any of them.

I was very disappointed in the signings. We bought players that didn't stand out in average teams. Players like Alcock, released by Peterborough, or Wallace, injured 90% of the time from Tranmere. How people thought this was improving our chances of promotion, I'll never know. Strength in depth? Depth, yes, but strength? Not a jot of it.

"We need time to gel" was one excuse. The need to gel was a fuck up of our own doing. We did not need drastic changes to the squad in the summer. Replace or re-sign Brayford, Coady and Maguire and pick up where we left off. But no, Clough chooses the first game of the season to make a point that he doesn't want Collins and Doyle in the team. Well, that worked out, didn't it.

For Christ's sake. This division is absolutely dire. It's crap to watch and should be easy to win. Board: invest some fucking money in quality players; Clough: stop being so fucking stubborn and falling out with players, sign a couple of good players and pick a consistent team.

I hate this division and I hate the fact that we are no better than the rest of the crap, little teams in it. This doesn't make me a pig fan for thinking we should be better than the likes of Fleetwood and Port Vale. We should.
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although i class myself as a clough supporter i must agree with most of your comments in this thread excellent
 
metalblade said:
Well I wouldn't trust him with ten bob
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This is not specifically addressed to you MB. Living so far away, I see very little of the Blades.
Could some one explain how ,or why Nigel has morphed into a bad manager after last season's commendable rise up the league?

Before this season started he stated that he would prefer a small squad. That has gone by the board and we appear to have gathered quite a few players with little merit ,or appetite for the fight to get out of this awful league. Once in, they are difficult to move on as Warnock discovered

I was surprised that we didn't go after Coady. Was that a mistake.?

I do appreciate the Harry and Brayford situations but why ,oh why, not sign and pay for similar quality, thus keeping the required incomings to a minimum.

Why on earth has Nigel regressed and what should be done about it? Serious question
 
Sirius said:
This is not specifically addressed to you MB. Living so far away, I see very little of the Blades.
Could some one explain how ,or why Nigel has morphed into a bad manager after last season's commendable rise up the league?

Before this season started he stated that he would prefer a small squad. That has gone by the board and we appear to have gathered quite a few players with little merit ,or appetite for the fight to get out of this awful league. Once in, they are difficult to move on as Warnock discovered

I was surprised that we didn't go after Coady. Was that a mistake.?

I do appreciate the Harry and Brayford situations but why ,oh why, not sign and pay for similar quality, thus keeping the required incomings to a minimum.

Why on earth has Nigel regressed and what should be done about it? Serious question
Click to expand...

Are you Mr McCabe covering your back and blaming Mr Clough ?.:)
 
Sirius said:
This is not specifically addressed to you MB. Living so far away, I see very little of the Blades.
Could some one explain how ,or why Nigel has morphed into a bad manager after last season's commendable rise up the league?

Before this season started he stated that he would prefer a small squad. That has gone by the board and we appear to have gathered quite a few players with little merit ,or appetite for the fight to get out of this awful league. Once in, they are difficult to move on as Warnock discovered

I was surprised that we didn't go after Coady. Was that a mistake.?

I do appreciate the Harry and Brayford situations but why ,oh why, not sign and pay for similar quality, thus keeping the required incomings to a minimum.

Why on earth has Nigel regressed and what should be done about it? Serious question
Click to expand...

I think you make some good points, was not signing Coady a mistake? Yes I believe it was, I think Clough is stubborn though and wants his players that his scouts have spotted and Coady was here when he arrived, however Clough was the man that got the best out of him. No one could do anything about Maguire and brayford but they are replaceable and could have been replace with one player for each position not 4 or 5 to be rotated.

You are right this league is simply awful and we should be better than the likes of fleetwood and port vale we don't sound like pigs when we say our 20,000 home fans and 1000 + away fans week in week out deserve better. We have the best ground and supporters in this division by a country mile and probably the best infrastructure.

His signings have been shocking even some of his better ones (scougall) look a shadow of there former selves this season. We have started playing players out of position (Flynn) which I hate, he is living off this cup run which will no doubt finish with us out in the semi final once again.

I think little or no effort will be made to get this game on tomorrow so players are rested for another cup game I remember last season we got games off to rest players for the cup, we bought a cover last season so why wasn't it used? This was forecast, we also have under soil heating what's the point in that?.

This all needs addressing and fast or we will start slipping down the league very rapidly I noticed we are as close to the bottom as top now.
 
finlaytheblade said:
although i class myself as a clough supporter i must agree with most of your comments in this thread excellent
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Clough, but I can see his flaws. Unfortunately, those, teamed together with the board's, make it extremely unlikely we will mount any sort of promotion challenge this season.

There doesn't necessarily have to be two distinct camps, one for and one against. It's best to see the merits of both sides of an argument.
 
Sirius said:
This is not specifically addressed to you MB. Living so far away, I see very little of the Blades.
Could some one explain how ,or why Nigel has morphed into a bad manager after last season's commendable rise up the league?

Before this season started he stated that he would prefer a small squad. That has gone by the board and we appear to have gathered quite a few players with little merit ,or appetite for the fight to get out of this awful league. Once in, they are difficult to move on as Warnock discovered

I was surprised that we didn't go after Coady. Was that a mistake.?

I do appreciate the Harry and Brayford situations but why ,oh why, not sign and pay for similar quality, thus keeping the required incomings to a minimum.

Why on earth has Nigel regressed and what should be done about it? Serious question
Click to expand...
I don't think Nigel has morphed into a bad manager we were in a shocking state when Weir was released as the job was too much for a bloke with no previous managerial experience (in the end I did feel a little sorry for him). That said I think any manager with a bit of know how would have improved us after Weir, the FA cup run was a welcome bonus where the team and Nigel had little pressure and nothing to lose similar to this seasons League cup run, hell we were so bad Nigel had nothing to lose in the league games last season. Fast forward to the summer and the recruitment was a shambles we never got the proven striker we still need and we never replaced the player we lost, instead we brought in journeymen crocks and youngsters from non league all costing little or nothing. I'm not sure we can lay the blame at Nigel's door here did the board back him ? was there ever any "game changing investment" ? why did we not use the Maguire money or the extra cash earned in the cup run ? Lots of questions but very few answers, my take on it is Nigel is what he is, a steady hand recruited to cut costs and steady the ship nothing more. All this talk of recruiting a small quality squad and a promotion push is all bollocks to keep the fans happy and I am still convinced we did not get a striker in as we were expecting a freebie in October (that turned out well didn't it ) I don't think we are serious about getting out of this shithole of a league at least not while 20,000 turn up every week and I don't think Nigel has got it in him if we were, we see he goes all negative and defensive when the pressure is on just another Danny Wilson a nice guy who makes the right noises in the media at least Wilson had a few ups and downs, Clough is Mr mediocrity bang average mid table manager whichever league he finds himself in he will never take us anywhere.
 



alcoblade said:
There was never any need to trust anyone, it was always a cringeworthy line.

UTB
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I thought so as well.

To be fair to Clough I think he's seen a lot of the things that have been pointed out on here, and tried rectifying it. With the squad we've ended up with, it's been very hard for him to put things right though. Certain players have been huge disappointments, and others have struggled because our line ups have nearly always been lacking something to get the balance exactly right, partly due to injuries.

One thing that must be addressed in January is our lack of height and strength. We have a team of midgets and they are light weight too. Losing 6'4 Harry Maguire was a huge blow as he was great in both boxes. Collins was also decent in the air.

Stefan Scougall gets bullied every game and his teammates aren't the types to go over and make them think again. Doyle tries, but he's not an imposing figure and there should be others. When Basham was sent off yesterday, loads of Port Vale players surrounded the referee, while one of them (Duffy) blocked Doyle from getting a say, even pinching his ear as Doyle went after the ref. Our corner takers get criticised all the time, but it's hard to find teammates who are marked by bigger and stronger opponents.
 
Lane Ender said:
You should have watched every game this season fella like me and many others and you'd know why
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I have watched every game (admittedly the next day) and to be honest I don't think the team is playing that badly.

Even the mighty Warnock and Bassett had some miserable runs.
Plenty of this season to go yet.
 
Kev Gee said:
I dont want NC to get sacked or resign. (after all who would we get that would be better?)
I want him to stop dicking about & go at teams rather than being cautiouIts ok against teams higher than us but against a League 1 team?
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Pullis is available and is better than Clough
 
davidpinder said:
I think you make some good points, was not signing Coady a mistake? Yes I believe it was, I think Clough is stubborn though and wants his players that his scouts have spotted and Coady was here when he arrived, however Clough was the man that got the best out of him. No one could do anything about Maguire and brayford but they are replaceable and could have been replace with one player for each position not 4 or 5 to be rotated.

You are right this league is simply awful and we should be better than the likes of fleetwood and port vale we don't sound like pigs when we say our 20,000 home fans and 1000 + away fans week in week out deserve better. We have the best ground and supporters in this division by a country mile and probably the best infrastructure.

His signings have been shocking even some of his better ones (scougall) look a shadow of there former selves this season. We have started playing players out of position (Flynn) which I hate, he is living off this cup run which will no doubt finish with us out in the semi final once again.

I think little or no effort will be made to get this game on tomorrow so players are rested for another cup game I remember last season we got games off to rest players for the cup, we bought a cover last season so why wasn't it used? This was forecast, we also have under soil heating what's the point in that?.

This all needs addressing and fast or we will start slipping down the league very rapidly I noticed we are as close to the bottom as top now.
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Wrote earlier on another thread, if we don't play today and other results go against us( looking at the fixtures it's quite possible) we will be in 10th place.
 
Playoffs is the target don't forget. What are we all worrying about!? o_O
 
While I appreciate the people who disagree with the 'Clough Out-ies' we've got to accept that:
  • We are currently on a run that is Weir-esque and - with half the season remaining - it's as good as over re. promotion.
  • People will point out 'But we're sixth!' (fifth a week ago), We are 11 points off auto. We are also 11 points off relegation and just four points off mid-table obscurity.
  • We do not, repeat not, have good players who, 'with a few tweaks' or 'with one or two (mythical) additions in the JTW' will suddenly turn us into World-beaters. Our best players are average even in this division. Our worst players are an embarassment.
  • So on to NC. The fact that we suddenly come good in Cup games against better opposition merely highlights our deficiencies. Is it motivation? Better tactics? Whatever it is, saying that in the League teams come to the Lane and 'park the bus' or 'are difficult to break down' just doesn't cut it. We're talking Yeovil FFS. Fleetwood. If NC hasn't got the tactical nous to overcome these teams, what's the point of dreaming of going into the Championship?
(Talking of which, it's no coincidence that the top teams in this Division - Bristol City and Preston (I don't count MKD as they're over-reliant on Dele Alli who will be sold at any time and Benik Afobe who is on loan from Arsenal) have the nucleus of a team suitable for the Championship. We don't have a single player you could say that about.)
  • Back to NC and the lack of goals/effort in the first half speaks volumes. The team are simply not fired up from the off. This allows the opposition to get settled and organised and yawn at our predictability. This is not 'parking ther bus', it's simply that we're playing into their hands.
  • The phenominal run at the back end of last season, while exhilarating, is simply what a team with United's resources should be doing all season long in this division, not just in patches. So once again, the things that keep people loyal to NC - the Cup runs, February onwards last season - merely magnify NC's deficiencies.

  • I just don't agree with those who say 'We can't keep changing managers.' I think they're missing the point. It should be 'We can't keep on employing the wrong managers.'
This has - since NW - given us Blackwell (good points per game ratio, but as tedious as watching the current nonsense), Danny Wilson who has a failure rate unique in football, the ludicrous inexperienced Weir and the current incumbent.

We deserve a lot, lot better.
 
Latters said:
I don't know if it's down to Clough, the board or a combination of both, but our squad of players just isn't good enough to compete, even at this level, which, to be blunt, is fucking crap. I remember blader and I taking some stick for daring to suggest that the signings, whilst great in number, were lacking in quality. Our summer transfer activity flew in the face of Clough's suggestion that he wanted quality, not quantity. He did not manage to snare one single player that I actually though "wow, I'm pleased we've managed to get him, that'll make the rest of the division stand up and take notice." In fact, I don't think I'd heard of any of them.

I was very disappointed in the signings. We bought players that didn't stand out in average teams. Players like Alcock, released by Peterborough, or Wallace, injured 90% of the time from Tranmere. How people thought this was improving our chances of promotion, I'll never know. Strength in depth? Depth, yes, but strength? Not a jot of it.

"We need time to gel" was one excuse. The need to gel was a fuck up of our own doing. We did not need drastic changes to the squad in the summer. Replace or re-sign Brayford, Coady and Maguire and pick up where we left off. But no, Clough chooses the first game of the season to make a point that he doesn't want Collins and Doyle in the team. Well, that worked out, didn't it.

For Christ's sake. This division is absolutely dire. It's crap to watch and should be easy to win. Board: invest some fucking money in quality players; Clough: stop being so fucking stubborn and falling out with players, sign a couple of good players and pick a consistent team.

I hate this division and I hate the fact that we are no better than the rest of the crap, little teams in it. This doesn't make me a pig fan for thinking we should be better than the likes of Fleetwood and Port Vale. We should.
Click to expand...

... and yet there are still many, even now, trawling out the old lines of 'best squad in the division' 'biggest budget in the division' etc etc etc

I don't think there's much, or anything, that can be done about this as people see the game differently and interpret club decisions in different ways. However, I remember us having this very conversation, the disappointment is not in us currently being on the edge of the playoffs, but back in August when we failed to acquire the players capable of achieving automatic promotion.

I have said in another post, people need to distinguish between the 'club' and the 'squad' underachieving as they are completely separate entities. There is no doubt our club should be a stable championship club, but the squad we currently have is about the 5th or 6th best in the division, so is actually performing to its capabilities. This needs resurrecting, and has condemned us to another season in the bloody division (unless we can rip a whole in the time/space continuum and somehow win a playoff).

So, who's fault is it that we have failed to collect a squad good enough for automatic promotion? Well, again, it's down to individual interpretation. However, selling your best players year on year and consistently having a negative net spend in each transfer window lends itself to the theory that the board is to blame. I have also consistently admitted I do not WANT to be a board-basher at all, and that I actually aren't that bothered what division we're in because there are plenty of things in my life which are more important than football. However, as soon as the club comes out all guns blazing with 'Game Changing Investment' and other such false promises and bullshit, that's the point I interject and call their bluff. It's the worst way to run a football club, and seems as if McCabe has run out of ideas to keep the fans coming through the gate.

There is no GCI, but there wasn't before the 'prince' came on board either, and there was much less disgruntlement then. Why? Because there wasn't anyone feeding us lines of success and major finances coming our way, only to be left disappointed. We knew we were on a tight budget, everyone accepted we couldn't buy and keep whoever we wanted due to the club's financial structure. We are now left with a poor squad, no money, a pamphlet of false promises and inflated expectations ALL from the board's own doing. Keep your mouth shut, or underplay your hand, and everyone is realistic in their ambition for the club. They have made their bed shockingly, and now they have to lie in it. I have lost all sympathy and patience for these charlatans.
 
blader said:
... and yet there are still many, even now, trawling out the old lines of 'best squad in the division' 'biggest budget in the division' etc etc etc

I don't think there's much, or anything, that can be done about this as people see the game differently and interpret club decisions in different ways. However, I remember us having this very conversation, the disappointment is not in us currently being on the edge of the playoffs, but back in August when we failed to acquire the players capable of achieving automatic promotion.

I have said in another post, people need to distinguish between the 'club' and the 'squad' underachieving as they are completely separate entities. There is no doubt our club should be a stable championship club, but the squad we currently have is about the 5th or 6th best in the division, so is actually performing to its capabilities. This needs resurrecting, and has condemned us to another season in the bloody division (unless we can rip a whole in the time/space continuum and somehow win a playoff).

So, who's fault is it that we have failed to collect a squad good enough for automatic promotion? Well, again, it's down to individual interpretation. However, selling your best players year on year and consistently having a negative net spend in each transfer window lends itself to the theory that the board is to blame. I have also consistently admitted I do not WANT to be a board-basher at all, and that I actually aren't that bothered what division we're in because there are plenty of things in my life which are more important than football. However, as soon as the club comes out all guns blazing with 'Game Changing Investment' and other such false promises and bullshit, that's the point I interject and call their bluff. It's the worst way to run a football club, and seems as if McCabe has run out of ideas to keep the fans coming through the gate.

There is no GCI, but there wasn't before the 'prince' came on board either, and there was much less disgruntlement then. Why? Because there wasn't anyone feeding us lines of success and major finances coming our way, only to be left disappointed. We knew we were on a tight budget, everyone accepted we couldn't buy and keep whoever we wanted due to the club's financial structure. We are now left with a poor squad, no money, a pamphlet of false promises and inflated expectations ALL from the board's own doing. Keep your mouth shut, or underplay your hand, and everyone is realistic in their ambition for the club. They have made their bed shockingly, and now they have to lie in it. I have lost all sympathy and patience for these charlatans.
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Brilliant - agree!

If my club wins some games, draws and loses some too then fine. I'll support Sufc for the rest of my life , no problems.

The problem comes when promises are made and expectation levels rise. Inevitably people will be disappointed.
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
Pullis is available and is better than Clough
Click to expand...

GRUMPY BLADE. yes you are unfortunately correct . Tony Pullis is better than Mr Clough and his record in football management shows it . Mr Pullis would be a manager that from the mid premiership downwards ,any club would want ,either to stay in the premiership , or get promotion out of any league . He lives on the south coast near Poole and to move north ,both the club and money would have to be right for him and his family.

He has always been looked upon as a long ball merchant , but he actually analyses the strengths and weaknesses of a team and then decides the style of play accordingly , like he did at Stoke and Palace ( who were bottom when he became manager and finished 11th in the premier league ) . Football has evolved , and he is a flexible manager who evolves with it.

SUFC are a difficult prospect to manage with a rich history , with after years in the lower leagues , require a winning side , with style , but unfortunately , having a board , unwilling to provide the financial backing to provide this , after years of mismanagement and wasted financial dealings.

SUFC are not a viable prospect for many managers who perhaps do not want a major failure on there CV.
It is a grave yard for both managers and centre forwards IMO. We are not yet a model example on how to build a football club.

Mr Clough is the right manager at the right time for SUFC. What is wrong at the moment ( apologies if stating the obvious)

Lack of real investment on quality players . Will this happen in January ? , if so too late for automatic promotion and a failed strategy , if there ever was one.

Mr Clough old school principles with players is not working.

Authoritarian methods are now outdated.

We have no modern thinkers in the coaching staff of Mr Clough , Garner and Morgan. Mr Clough has said in the past is that we do not worry about the opposition , we let them worry about us . Our system has been found out , and even poor sides now how to play and contain us.. Our predictable approach has seen us embarrassed in a number of games .

A good manager does not let the system played become stale , and comes up with new tactics even within a game . A successful manager gets rid of failed one dimensional tactics , and looks at a new approach.

I am pro Mr Clough . He is a respected , intelligent guy in football , but for SUFC to get out of this league he has to change is approach or even the play offs will be missed . He has the business end of the season to prove this , along with the board , Mr Clough has to change us from being too predictable , and allow the players to play with confidence , pace and solid foundations .

This will require getting the right players , which cost money , The January window will show us how good or mediocre Mr Clough is , and the boards real intent to get us out of league 1. If you want championship survival and progression Mr Clough is your man , however we are not yet in the championship league , and leaving too much to chance , without a proper strategic plan to get there.

UTB
 



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